The Binary Agora

albariberamartinez

The Binary Agora is an open space that serves as a meeting ground for legal tech discussions.

  1. 6 days ago

    #57 The Article 102 Guidelines Go Beyond What the Case Law Has Established w/ Prof. Justin Lindeboom

    In this video, we discuss the new Article 102 Guidelines issued by the European Commission, exploring their implications for competition law. Join us to listen to our conversation on the evolution of these Guidelines and their focus on workable competition policy. Find the European Commission's issued Article 102 Guidelines here: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/ac0e592e-2c8e-4a45-aae5-d82e7327b022_en?filename=Guidelines_on_exclusionary_abuses_of_dominance_102TFEU.pdf. Throughout the episode, Justin and I touched upon several milestones in the application of the Article 102 Guidelines. Click on them directly here: - 03:51, The draft version of the Guidelines: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/public-consultations/2024-article-102-guidelines_en. - 06:23, Justin's post on Kluwer Competition Law Blog on fiat and reason in the context of Google Shopping: https://legalblogs.wolterskluwer.com/competition-blog/reason-and-fiat-in-the-google-shopping-case/. - 07:02, Lon Fuller popularises the fiat and reason theory: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL14510498M/Reason_and_fiat_in_case_law. - 13:23, The Court of Justice's Intel 2014 ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=planjo:20141024-076. - 13:44, The Court of Justice's Android Auto ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62023CJ0233. - 14:42, Justin's work on a formalistic approach to competition law: https://academic.oup.com/jcle/article/18/4/832/6582875. - 16:55, The Chicago Board of Trade v. US judgment in the US: https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/246/231/. - 17:12, Frank Easterbrook's work on the per se legality of certain practices: https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1035&context=occasional_papers. - 18:26, The Court of Justice's Bronner ruling: https://infocuria.curia.europa.eu/tabs/redirect/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-7/97. - 20:33, Justin's analysis of the AEC test when considering Servizio Elettrico Nazionale: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4171718. - 21:53, The Court of Justice's Post Danmark I ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62014CJ0023. - 22:29, The Opinion of AG Wahl in the Intel case: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62014CC0413. - 23:21, The Court of Justice's European Super League ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62021CJ0333. - 23:29, The Court of Justice's Google Android ruling: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/NL/ALL/?uri=CELEX:62022CJ0738. - 25:29, The Economic Advisory Group report issued in 2005: https://www.ifo.de/en/cesifo/publications/2005/journal-complete-issue/eeag-european-economic-advisory-group-cesifo-report. - 27:11, The Enforcement Priorities Guidance issued in 2009 by the European Commission: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=oj:JOC_2009_045_R_0007_01. Key moments 00:00 Introduction 00:23 Overview of Article 102 Guidelines 01:13 Key aspects of the Guidelines 03:19 Workability in enforcement 05:06 Impact on private enforcement 06:02 Relationship between reason and fiat 07:31 Guidelines and competition policy 10:35 Conclusion The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  2. 13 Oct

    #56 The Devil is in the Enforcement: Competitors Seek Access to Google Search Data w/ Aurélien Mähl

    Discover how the European Commission's decision impacts Google's data-sharing obligations under Article 6(11) of the DMA. In this insightful discussion, we explore the implications for competition and privacy with Aurélien Mähl, Lead Public Policy Manager at DuckDuckGo. Throughout the discussion, we talked about a single decision issued by the European Commission on its specification proceedings against Google under Article 6(11) DMA, find it here: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202637/DMA_100209_2799.pdf. On the episode, Aurélien also touched upon some developments surrounding the search market. Click on them directly via the links below: - 01:11, Google's 2025 DMA compliance workshop: https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/events-poolpage/2025-alphabet-dma-compliance-workshop-2025-07-01_en. - 02:10, The US DOJ v. Google Search case: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-wins-significant-remedies-against-google. - 05:23, Google's own red-teaming report on the European Commission's proposed anonymisation measures: https://www.bankinfosecurity.com/google-makes-security-objections-to-eu-order-opening-android-a-32244. - 09:18, The EDPB-EC Joint Guidelines on the interface between the DMA and the GDPR: https://www.edpb.europa.eu/public-consultations/joint-guidelines-on-the-interplay-between-the-digital-markets-act-and-the_en. - 13:14, The European Commission's specification decision against Apple for its interoperability obligation: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202523/DMA_100203_1655.pdf. - 14:30, Judge Mehta in the US orders search remedies in the DOJ case: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/department-justice-wins-significant-remedies-against-google. - 18:09, The European Commission's DMA review: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_914. -19:53, The European Commission's initial press release on Article 6(11) DMA: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/api/files/document/print/en/ip_26_1634/IP_26_1634_EN.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the DMA and Google's compliance 00:50 Google's initial approach to anonymization 02:00 Importance of data for search relevance 03:30 The gap in competition policy 05:00 New compliance measures and optimism 07:30 Technical vs. contractual safeguards 10:00 FRAND pricing interpretation 12:00 Overlapping remedies in the US and EU 15:00 Metrics for assessing enforcement success To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all. - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social. - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/. The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  3. 6 Oct

    #55 Technological Capture w/ Dr. Elettra Bietti

    Explore the concept of technological capture in digital regulation with Elettra Bietti, an expert in law and computer science. In this episode, we discuss how big tech influences regulatory frameworks and the implications for the public interest. Read Elettra's co-authored paper with Anne Bellon on technological capture here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7391898. Throughout the episode, Elettra touched upon several developments surrounding the concept of technological capture. Click directly on them through the links below: - 01:43, Stigler's ideas on regulatory capture: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3003160. - 06:13, Daniel Carpenter's and David Moss' book on Preventing Regulatory Capture: https://tobinproject.org/books-papers/preventing-capture. - 12:13, The US Microsoft case: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft_Corp. - 15:52, Meta sets out its Oversight Board: https://transparency.meta.com/oversight/creation-of-oversight-board/. - 16:09, The EC's analysis of the Facebook/WhatsApp merger: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/mergers/cases/decisions/m7217_20141003_20310_3962132_EN.pdf. - 16:36, The 'Spamming the Regulator' paper: https://academic.oup.com/antitrust/article-abstract/12/1/7/7128249. - 17:31, TikTok mobilises influencers against the US ban: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/tiktok-influencers-us-ban-protest-b2306241.html. - 18:31, Ariel Ezrachi's and Maurice Stucke's view on frenemies: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv24w63h3. - 18:35, Branderburger's and Nalebuff's notion of co-opetition: https://www.strategy-business.com/article/17483. - 18:43, Apple and Mozilla participate in the US Google Search case: https://spyglass.org/google-apple-and-mozilla-win-in-the-antitrust-case-google-lost/. - 26:25, Phil Weiser talks about tiered remedies in the US Google Search case: https://coag.gov/press-releases/attorney-general-phil-weiser-statement-google-search-remedies-9-2-25/. Key Moments 01:05 Overview of the Paper 02:15 Corrosive Capture Explained 05:21 Limitations of Regulatory Capture Theory 08:15 Differences in EU and US Regulation 10:06 Transition to Technological Capture 14:44 Dimensions of Technological Capture 21:17 Countermeasures to Tech Power To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  4. 29 Sept

    #54 A Religious Approach to Openness: AI Markets Competition Through Open Models w/ Francesco Pili

    In this conversation, I discuss with Francesco Pili the very topical issue of open source and open weights AI models as the solution to competition. Francesco contests the premise and argues that degrees of openness normally characterise strong, robust, and resilient digital markets. We introduce the conversation by talking about the Open Weights and American AI Leadership Statement: https://images.nvidia.com/pdf/Open-Weights-and-American-AI-Leadership.pdf. Throughout the conversation, Francesco touches upon several points that may merit your closer attention. Click on the links provided below directly: - 04:01, The Open Source Initiative, founded in 1998: https://opensource.org/. - 04:55, The European Parliament asks the European Commission about security and privacy risks: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-10-2026-003096_EN.html. - 06:44, AG Jacob's Opinion in Bronner: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:61997CC0007. - 07:17, The Court of Justice's Android Auto ruling (Case C-233/23): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:62023CJ0233. - 09:36, The European Commission's Guidelines on Article 102 TFEU: https://competition-policy.ec.europa.eu/document/download/ac0e592e-2c8e-4a45-aae5-d82e7327b022_en?filename=Guidelines_on_exclusionary_abuses_of_dominance_102TFEU.pdf. - 11:04, The European Commission's specification measures under Article 6(7) against Google's Android AI functionalities: https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202629/DMA_100220_2683.pdf. - 13:47, Trump's proposed ban on Chinese open-weight models: https://www.fastcompany.com/91576757/trumps-proposed-ban-on-chinese-ai-models-could-strengthen-beijings-hand. - 15:59, The Foreign Subsidies Regulation: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/eli/reg/2022/2560/oj. - 22:12, Meta's exclusion of third-party LLM providers on WhatsApp: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/sv/ip_26_310. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the debate on AI openness 01:24 Signatories of the open weights statement and their interests 02:09 Principled argument vs. business incentives in openness 02:56 Difference between open source and open weights 04:11 The debate about degrees of openness 05:13 Who should be required to open their AI systems 06:50 Openness and innovation: long-term considerations 08:32 Empirical approach to openness and security 11:58 European Commission's approach to interoperability 12:24 Market forces and industry-led openness 15:04 Europe's role in AI geopolitics 18:34 When should regulators impose openness obligations 21:31 Evidence needed for openness regulation 23:04 Who should prove the standards for openness To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  5. 22 Sept

    #53 Treating AI Like Adults in the Face of Extinction Threats w/ Prof. Simone Vannuccini

    In this episode, Simone Vannuccini walks us through the threats of Artificial General Intelligence from his expertise in analysing the economics of AI and shares the common misconceptions that surround current AI development. If you're one of the few humans on Earth who did not see Jacob Coxon's comments: https://apnews.com/article/anthropic-ai-safety-jacob-coxon-2ed549e07f2f941600a135070487d83d. As promised, here you can find all the references that Simone introduced when talking about AI and AGI. Click on the links to access them directly: - 00:49, OpenAI and Anthropic CEOs call for a pause in advancing model capabilities: https://www.npr.org/2026/09/12/nx-s1-5950588/openai-anthropic-ai-safety-researchers-hacks. - 01:58, Simone's research on AGI as a poorly defined concept: https://doi.org/10.1177/02683962231197824. - 03:17, The hacking of Hugging Face by OpenAI: https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/openais-rogue-agents-probed-hugging-face-weaknesses-two-months-before-major-hack-2026-09-16/. - 04:18, Research on the faulty logic of substituting language mastery for understanding: https://arxiv.org/html/2512.19466v1. - 04:45, John von Neumann's ideas on replicating the human brain: https://engines.egr.uh.edu/episode/2487. - 05:00, AEON article by Margaret Boden: https://aeon.co/essays/the-robots-wont-take-over-because-they-couldnt-care-less. - 06:30, Nick Bostrom on superintelligence concept: https://global.oup.com/academic/product/superintelligence-9780198739838. - 07:04, Sci-fi is selectively read in the AI field: https://aeon.co/essays/silicon-valley-has-a-science-fiction-problem. - 09:56, Coxon's interview on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i30jVPqQeOM. - 10:34, The Shock of the Old by David Edgerton: https://books.google.com/books/about/The_Shock_of_the_Old.html?id=rn88DwAAQBAJ. - 11:17, Jensen Huang defending that we should look at AI as a technology: https://www.politico.eu/article/jensen-huang-dont-regulate-ai-like-social-media/. - 11:41, Simone's research on negligible impacts of AI at the macro level: http://195.220.190.85/GREDEG-WP-2025-21.pdf. - 14:26, Bob Solow's paradox: https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-solow-productivity-paradox-what-do-computers-do-to-productivity/. - 15:34, Daron Acemoglu defending that no macro-level impacts are expected: https://economics.mit.edu/sites/default/files/2024-05/The%20Simple%20Macroeconomics%20of%20AI.pdf. - 18:18, State of the Union von der Leyen arguing for slowing the pace of AI development: https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2026/09/16/eus-von-der-leyen-calls-for-pacing-frontier-ai-models. - 20:29, Comparison of AI with the Enron case: https://www.captechu.edu/blog/ai-boom-and-enron-lesson-why-ethical-ai-matters. - 22:27, Lina Khan article on calling to stop worshipping tech giants: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/04/opinion/deepseek-ai-big-tech.html. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to AI safety concerns and industry warnings 02:03 Debunking the concept of AGI and its definitions 06:17 Market dynamics, investment, and the hype around superintelligence 10:09 Current AI impacts versus future fears of superintelligence 12:07 Micro versus macro impacts of AI and productivity 13:15 AI as a large technical system and its economic implications 14:32 The productivity paradox and the true effects of AI 16:58 The debate over AI regulation and industry influence 17:34 Narratives, regulation, and the risk of an AI bubble burst 19:42 The focus on industrial AI and beyond hype 20:53 Market concentration, cartel behavior, and industry interdependence 23:10 Concentration of power in AI labs and its impact on innovation 24:19 The direction of AI innovation and barriers to entry 25:40 Historical parallels and future prospects for AI markets The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  6. 17 Sept

    #52 Computational Antitrust is Here to Stay w/ Dr. Thibault Schrepel

    In this episode, I discuss with Thibault Schrepel how computational antitrust is transforming legal standards and enforcement practices. He shares insights on the rapid adoption of AI tools by competition agencies, the benefits and challenges of automation, and the future of this evolving field. You can find the Stanford Computational Antitrust fifth report here: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=7386238. Throughout the episode, Thibault also happened to mention a few of his publications. Click on them directly in the links below: - 02:47, The Stanford Computational Antitrust reports for the last four years, co-edited alongside Teodora Groza; first report (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/the-adoption-of-computational-antitrust-by-agencies-2021-report/); second (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4476321); third (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/computational-antitrust-within-agencies-3rd-annual-report/) and fourth (https://law.stanford.edu/publications/computational-antitrust-worldwide-fourth-cross-agency-report/). - 04:09, His paper, co-authored alongside Alex Pentland on competition between foundation models: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4493900. - 04:23, His paper, co-authored alongside Teodora Groza on computing innovation competition: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4985079. - 05:03, His paper on adaptive regulation: https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=5416454. - 06:51, The podcast we recorded with the CADE Chair on the use of computational tools: https://open.spotify.com/episode/1EcVTR1KfzniU77skgo7NN?si=0c2c1222eae54f14. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to computational antitrust and Thibault Schrepel 01:04 The evolution of AI adoption in competition agencies 02:22 From theory to practice: AI tools in enforcement 03:32 The role of generative AI and foundation models 04:48 Computational tools and innovation competition 06:20 Benefits of automation: speed and breadth in investigations 08:44 Legal challenges and the gap between law and technology 11:48 Convergence of tools and best practices among agencies 14:53 Opportunities for smaller agencies through computational antitrust 16:45 Future directions: institutional design and global adaptation To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social - TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  7. 15 Sept

    #51 The Informant in Your Pocket: All Roads Lead to the Question of Spyware Misuse w/ Lena Riecke

    In this episode, I talk to Lena Riecke about the complex world of commercial spyware, its implications for privacy, democracy, and international security, and the challenges in regulating this powerful technology. Throughout the episode, Lena touches upon different developments that have taken place in the spyware market. Click on them below to access them directly: - 03:02, Commercial spyware like Pegasus: https://www.kaspersky.com/blog/commercial-spyware/50813/. - 03:31, Reports on spyware as systems that turn phones into 24-hour surveillance devices: https://media.un.org/unifeed/en/asset/d293/d2933358. - 04:09, Ron Diebert's book drawing similarities between nuclear weapons and weapons of mass destruction and spyware: https://www.managementboek.nl/boek/9781912836772/reset-ronald-j-deibert?srsltid=AfmBOoqX5W23yTSV_b6eVTFRzjrF7rdQRgVcKHUcq_PFkyK-yqFyzXEY. - 04:41, The Spanish Pegasus scandal: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2026/jan/23/spanish-court-drops-pegasus-spyware-case-again-israel-spain-nso. - 07:11, Reports on Hacking Team and FinFisher selling products to repressive regimes: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/08/hacking-team-leaks-confirm-what-arab-privacy-advocates-already-knew. - 07:21, Wassenaar Arrangement on certain spyware components: https://www.wassenaar.org/. - 07:50, US-led joint statement in 2023: https://2021-2025.state.gov/joint-statement-on-efforts-to-counter-the-proliferation-and-misuse-of-commercial-spyware/. - 07:55, Pall Mall process launched by France and the UK: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-pall-mall-process-declaration-tackling-proliferation-and-irresponsible-use-of-commercial-cyber-intrusion-capabilities/the-pall-mall-process-tackling-the-proliferation-and-irresponsible-use-of-commercial-cyber-intrusion-capabilities. - 08:09, Pegasus used to target students and members of the pro-democracy movement in Serbia: https://citizenlab.ca/research/pegasus-spyware-infection-of-serbian-activist/. - 10:48, Lena Riecke's study on emerging international governance approaches: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2212473X26000635.- 13:58, NSO spending millions on lobbying: https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/nso-group-spends-millions-lobbying/. - 14:02, Intellexa activity declining: https://www.icij.org/investigations/cyprus-confidential/predator-spyware-firm-intellexa-resurgent-after-u-s-sanctions/. - 14:08, Paragon contract with ICE paused on allegations of spyware misuse: https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/usa-government-contract-with-spyware-vendor-paragon-solutions-under-review-due-to-human-rights-concerns/. - 14:25, Trump reinstates Paragon contract: https://www.accessnow.org/paragon-contract-spyware/. - 14:53, Pall Mall Process negotiating guidelines for responsible industry practices: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-france-seek-views-on-commercial-cyber-intrusion-industry-practices. - 16:15, Sentencing of Intellexa officials recently in Greece: https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1313941/high-ranking-spy-agency-officer-targets-intellexa-execs-over-illegal-wiretapping/. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the episode and guest 00:23 What is commercial spyware and how does it differ from traditional surveillance? 01:13 The capabilities and intrusiveness of commercial spyware like Pegasus 02:01 Impacts on privacy, human rights, and democratic principles 04:30 Challenges in regulating the spyware market and why states struggle 06:31 The role of democracies and autocracies in spyware proliferation 08:45 Recent regulation efforts and their effectiveness 12:44 Future prospects and what is needed to better regulate spyware 16:46 Conclusion and key takeaways The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

  8. 9 Sept

    #50 Easy Prompting and Memorisation: Munich Ruling on GEMA v Suno w/ Prof. Dr. Jan Bernd Nordemann

    In this episode, we explore the implications of a landmark German court ruling on AI training and copyright law, featuring expert legal insights from Jan Bernd Nordemann. We discuss how AI models like Suno's infringe copyright, jurisdictional issues, and the evolving legal landscape for AI and intellectual property. Throughout the episode, we commented on the Munich Regional Court's ruling on GEMA v. Suno (available in German): https://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2026-N-17961. During our conversation, Jan also brought up a couple of cases that are relevant to the Court's ruling. Click on them directly using the links below: - 06:06, The CJEU's case law on the relevance of recognisability to determine whether we are before a reproduction, Joined Cases C-580/23 and C-795/23, Mio and Others: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A62023CA0580. - 13:42, The US Supreme Court's case Andy Warhol Foundation for the Visual Arts, Inc. v. Goldsmith et al: https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/22pdf/21-869_87ad.pdf. Key moments 00:00 Introduction to the German court ruling on Suno AI 01:05 Facts of the case: GEMA vs Suno 02:28 How Suno trained its model using YouTube content 03:10 German copyright infringements identified in the case 04:16 Memorized copies within Suno’s system and public access 06:39 US law considerations and fair use analysis 07:43 Reproduction and memorization in AI models 09:08 Jurisdictional issues and extraterritoriality 13:28 Impact of the ruling on fair use and AI training 14:31 Thresholds for retention and legal relevance 16:00 Prompting complexity and memorization boundaries 17:16 Output filters and their legal implications 18:18 AI due diligence obligations and strict liability 19:23 Future considerations for AI liability and care duties 20:10 Closing remarks and audience engagement To learn more about Dr. Alba Ribera Martínez and her research, we invite you to visit her website: https://www.albariberamartinez.com. She also writes, from time to time, in her newsletter, the DMA Agora, about the latest developments surrounding the European regulation: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=7344021393451184128. ________ The Binary Agora is on social media, where we upload and comment on dedicated content only for our subscribers. Stay tuned there, as well. - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/thebinaryagora/posts/?feedView=all - BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/thebinaryagora.bsky.social- TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thebinaryagora - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thebinaryagora/ The views and opinions expressed by our guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of this podcast, its host, or any affiliated organisations.

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