Liminal Living

Dr. Thomas J Rundel
  • 5.0 (19)
  • CHRISTIANITY
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my research to include other faith traditions and cognitive science. Since our launch in 2023, we've been dedicated to exploring the nuances of dark nights and deconstructions, but our journey expanded to include insights from a diverse array of modern-day thinkers and artists. Through a blend of stories, practices, and perspectives, we provide valuable guidance for fellow travelers navigating their own liminal spaces. So, join us as we embark on this journey and embrace the uncertainty in order to uncover the hidden wisdom that lies within the liminal spaces of life.

  1. 161: Tom Rundel: Where is God When the System Fails You?

    13H AGO

    161: Tom Rundel: Where is God When the System Fails You?

    Follow the Drinking Gourd: A Map Encoded in Song Tom opens with his love of astronomy and the Big Dipper, tracing it to the African American folk song "Follow the Drinking Gourd" — a secret map taught to enslaved people escaping north on the Underground Railroad. The stars, the rivers, and the mysterious guide Peg Leg Joe become an extended metaphor for the kind of liberation the Woman at the Well is seeking. Setting the Scene: Why Jesus "Had To" Go Through Samaria By the time Jesus heads north in John 4, he's already overturned the temple economy and rattled religious authorities. Tom unpacks why most Jewish travelers avoided Samaria entirely — doubling a three-day journey to seven — and why the text's insistence that Jesus had to go through Samaria signals something theologically deliberate, not logistically necessary. 700 Years of Animosity: The Jew-Samaritan Divide Tom traces the deep historical roots of Jewish-Samaritan hostility — from the fall of the Northern Kingdom in 722 BC, through Assyrian resettlement, the destruction of the Samaritan temple on Mount Gerizim, and the desecration of the Jerusalem temple — showing that Jesus was walking into centuries of compounded grievance and mutual contempt. A Woman at Noon: Double Exile Jesus arrives at the well at midday and waits. Tom explains that women drew water in the morning — coming at noon meant this woman wasn't welcome at the communal gathering. She's already an outcast within an outcast community: doubly exiled, doubly marginalized. Rereading the Five Husbands: Levirate Marriage and Courageous Faith Tom challenges the traditional "woman searching for love in all the wrong places" reading entirely. Through the lens of Levirate marriage law — in which a widow was passed to her late husband's brothers to produce an heir — he reframes her story as one of faithfully following every rule and finding the system failed her anyway. Drawing a parallel to Tamar in Genesis, Tom argues she isn't a cautionary tale about sin; she's asking the oldest theological question: Where is God when the system has failed you? Worship in Spirit and Truth: Dismantling Geographic Holiness When the woman asks about the mountain debate — Gerizim or Jerusalem — Tom argues she isn't deflecting. She's asking whether there's any avenue left for someone barred from all the accepted paths to God. Jesus's answer — that God is worshiped in spirit and truth, not geography — is a revolutionary dismantling of every gatekeeping system organized around sacred buildings and in-group access. "I AM": The Divine Name Spoken to the Most Marginalized Jesus speaks his most stunning self-disclosure — the divine name I AM from the burning bush — not to Nicodemus, not to the disciples, but to this woman at a well at noon in Samaria. Tom connects this to Moses's commissioning in the wilderness and shows how the same words now send her on an identical mission: go lead an exodus. Photini: Light-Bearer and Spiritual Mother The Eastern Orthodox Church honors this woman with the name Photini — "light." The town that excluded her now listens to her. She has no son, yet she becomes the spiritual mother of an entire community. Tom closes by returning to the drinking gourd image: we are not the North Star, just the constellation that helps people find it. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    30 min
  2. 160: Tom Rundel: Pretense is the Enemy of the Spiritual Life

    MAR 4

    160: Tom Rundel: Pretense is the Enemy of the Spiritual Life

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the deeper meanings and contexts surrounding the famous biblical verse John 3:16, discussing its historical significance, the character of Nicodemus, and the spiritual journey of understanding faith. He emphasizes the importance of context in scripture, the role of doubt in faith, and the transformative practices of Lent as a means to deepen one's spiritual life. takeaways John 3:16 became famous through a man with a rainbow wig. The context of scripture is crucial for understanding its meaning. Nicodemus approached Jesus out of curiosity and a desire for truth. Nighttime symbolizes a space for honest questioning in faith. Doubt can drive deeper spiritual inquiry and understanding. Spirituality involves seeing interconnected layers of reality. The kingdom of God is within every human heart. Lent invites us to explore our true selves without pretense. Transformation requires letting go of old understandings. Practices during Lent can help cultivate a deeper spiritual life. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    27 min
  3. 159: Tom Rundel: The Devil Wears Vestments

    FEB 25

    159: Tom Rundel: The Devil Wears Vestments

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the significance of Lent as a time for spiritual recalibration and intentional practices. He emphasizes the importance of understanding hunger versus appetite, the experience of mortality through hunger, and the temptations faced by Jesus. The discussion culminates in an invitation for personal reflection and growth during Lent, highlighting the power of love over the love of power.  takeaways Lent serves as an annual recalibration of our habits and patterns. Intentional practices during Lent can help cultivate virtues. Understanding the difference between hunger and appetite is crucial. Experiencing hunger connects us to our mortality and need for community. The temptations of Jesus illustrate recurring human struggles with power and control. Lent invites us to reflect on what we truly desire and need. The power of love is greater than the love of power. We are called to embrace our vulnerability and neediness. Lent is a time to displace negative habits with positive practices. Holistic growth during Lent can encompass physical, mental, and spiritual well-being. Chapters 00:00 Lent: A Time for Recalibration 03:35 Intentional Practices for Lent 06:24 Understanding Hunger vs. Appetite 12:17 The Wilderness Experience 18:17 The Temptations of Jesus 30:08 The Power of Love Over Power 35:57 Invitation to Lent Practices SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    36 min
  4. 158: Tom Rundel: God Will Not Be Managed, Only Met

    FEB 18

    158: Tom Rundel: God Will Not Be Managed, Only Met

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel reflects on Black History Month, focusing on the inspiring story of Ruby Bridges and her courage during the Civil Rights Movement. He discusses the significance of Norman Rockwell's painting, 'The Problem We All Live With,' and how it encapsulates the struggles faced by Ruby as she integrated an all-white school. The conversation transitions into the themes of mountaintop moments, sacred separation, and the transfiguration of Jesus, emphasizing the importance of community, love, and the journey of transformation. Rundel encourages listeners to embrace their own moments of clarity and to practice resurrection in their daily lives. takeaways Tom Rundel reflects on Black History Month and personal growth.Ruby Bridges' story exemplifies courage in the face of adversity.Norman Rockwell's painting highlights racial tensions in America.Mountaintop moments provide clarity and vision for life's challenges.Sacred separation is different from escapism; it leads to transformation.Community plays a crucial role in individual becoming.Love is a powerful force that transcends arguments.Transfiguration reveals our true identity and destiny.Practicing resurrection is a continuous journey, not a one-time event.We must trust the light we carry, especially in difficult times. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    30 min
  5. 157: Tom Rundel: Christian Nationalism Can't Survive Matthew 5

    FEB 11

    157: Tom Rundel: Christian Nationalism Can't Survive Matthew 5

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel explores the profound teachings of the Sermon on the Mount, emphasizing its counterintuitive nature and the challenges it presents to individuals across the Christian spectrum. He delves into the historical context of Rosa Parks and the Montgomery Bus Boycott, illustrating how acts of non-violence and dignity can challenge oppressive systems. The discussion further expands on the metaphor of being 'salt of the earth' and 'light of the world,' calling for a communal approach to justice and love that preserves life and reveals truth in society. Takeaways The Sermon on the Mount is challenging and counterintuitive.Rosa Parks' actions sparked a significant movement for civil rights.The Montgomery Bus Boycott demonstrated the power of non-violent resistance.Salt symbolizes preservation and healing in a violent world.Light represents justice and communal action that restores dignity.Christian nationalism can distort the true message of the Gospel.Repentance is a way to reclaim dignity from oppressive narratives.Small acts of faithfulness can have a significant impact.Communities should organize around justice and love.Living out the teachings of Jesus requires courage and authenticity.Chapters The Challenge of the Sermon on the Mount Historical Context and Rosa Parks The Impact of the Montgomery Bus Boycott Salt of the Earth: A Call to Action Light of the World: Living Out Goodness   SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    35 min
  6. 156: Tom Rundel: The Light We Cannot See

    FEB 4

    156: Tom Rundel: The Light We Cannot See

    In this conversation, Tom Rundel shares personal anecdotes and insights about the nature of light, the teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount, and the significance of the Beatitudes. He emphasizes the importance of understanding unseen forces that affect our lives, the transformative power of imagination, and the call to justice and mercy as central themes in the Beatitudes. The discussion encourages listeners to reflect on their own lives and the societal structures around them, advocating for a compassionate and just approach to living.  takeaways  Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not affecting you. The nature of light includes both visible and invisible elements that impact us. The Sermon on the Mount offers a new perspective on societal norms and values. Jesus' teachings challenge our survival instincts and societal hierarchies. The Beatitudes call for a radical reimagining of how we engage with the world. Solidarity is essential in understanding Jesus' message. Imagination is crucial for hope and social transformation. Justice and mercy are intertwined in the teachings of Jesus. The meek are strong-souled individuals who refuse violence as a means of progress. A vision for the world must be rooted in the Beatitudes to be effective. SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    30 min
  7. 155: Tom Rundel: Speaking Truth to Power

    JAN 28

    155: Tom Rundel: Speaking Truth to Power

    This conversation explores the context of Jesus' beginning ministry, the nature of time, the role of prophets in society, ancient fishermen, and the call to solidarity and healing within communities. Tom Rundel shares personal fishing memories, transitions into discussing the serious nature of fishing in Jesus' time, and delves into the importance of understanding time as a social construct. He emphasizes the need for prophets to challenge unjust systems and highlights Jesus' radical choice of disciples from the margins of society. The conversation concludes with reflections on healing and the presence of God among those who are marginalized. takeaways Fishing memories evoke nostalgia and family connections.Jesus' disciples were not just hobbyists but working fishermen.Understanding the context of Jesus' ministry requires a shift in perspective.Time was measured seasonally in ancient societies, not precisely.Prophets challenge unjust systems and advocate for change.Jesus' withdrawal to Galilee was a strategic move for a new movement.The marginalized often see God's light more clearly than the powerful.Healing is an act of solidarity, not just a display of power.Community and care are essential in the Kingdom of God.Imagination shapes hope and action in our lives.Chapters 00:00Fishing Memories and Family Traditions 06:20Understanding the Context of Jesus and Fishermen 12:05The Nature of Time and Its Impact on Society 18:21The Role of Prophets in Challenging Systems 24:22Jesus' Radical Call to the Margins 30:20Healing and Solidarity in the Kingdom of God SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    37 min
  8. 154: Tom Rundel: The Lamb of God vs The Eagle of Rome

    JAN 21

    154: Tom Rundel: The Lamb of God vs The Eagle of Rome

    n this episode, Tom Rundel delves into the historical and theological significance of Pope Sergius I's refusal to conform to political pressures in the late seventh century, particularly regarding the phrase 'Lamb of God.' This pivotal moment in church history illustrates the tension between faith and power, as Sergius stood firm in his beliefs despite the threat of arrest. Rundel draws parallels between this historical event and contemporary issues within the church, emphasizing the importance of maintaining the integrity of faith in the face of societal pressures. He highlights how the phrase 'Lamb of God' serves as a radical declaration of God's nature, contrasting with imperial power and domination, and invites listeners to reflect on their own spiritual journeys and the deeper meanings behind their beliefs. Throughout the conversation, Rundel encourages a re-examination of what it means to follow Jesus, emphasizing that true spirituality is not merely about beliefs but about living out those beliefs in a way that embodies love, vulnerability, and sacrifice. He challenges listeners to consider their desires and how they align with their spiritual lives, ultimately calling for a deeper allegiance to the values represented by the 'Lamb of God.' Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Pope Sergius and Historical Context02:58 The Significance of the 'Lamb of God'05:27 Political Pressures and Faith Integrity10:00 Contrasting Symbols: Eagle vs. Lamb15:46 The Radical Nature of the 'Lamb of God'20:27 Faith as a Witness and Spirituality25:26 Desire and Spirituality: What Do You Want?30:50 Vocation and Living Authentically34:51 Closing Reflections and BenedictionTakeaways 'I'm a Christian.''God's power doesn't look like empire power.''What do you want?''Faith is a witness.''Desire is naturally human.''Tell me what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?''The lamb symbolizes self-emptying love rather than imposed force.''We can't pretend otherwise, even if these people in power ask us to.''This is who Jesus is.''Come and see.' SponsorsQuoir Square 2 Class: https://www.bk2sq1.com/square-2-next-steps-into-reconstruction (Promo code: Liminal for 10% off) Kineo Center: https://www.thekineocenter.com/cohort (mention "Liminal" in Application for $100 off)  Monk Manual: https://monkmanual.com/LIMINAL (10% off all merchandise)   ConnectFind us on the web: https://liminalliving.simplecast.com/ Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liminalliving Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCseqDsKpQv2r7AbFfrWF0ow Follow us on Patheos: patheos.com/editorial/podcasts/liminal-living      Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    34 min
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5
out of 5
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About

Welcome to the Liminal Living Podcast, where we dive deep into the realm of liminal spaces—those transitional phases where uncertainty is our companion. I'm your host and curator of conversations, Dr. Tom Rundel, and it's my pleasure to serve as your guide through these uncharted territories. With a doctoral background in spirituality and leadership from Portland Seminary, my research has centered on the spirituality found in the narratives of liminality in the Bible, but I have expanded my research to include other faith traditions and cognitive science. Since our launch in 2023, we've been dedicated to exploring the nuances of dark nights and deconstructions, but our journey expanded to include insights from a diverse array of modern-day thinkers and artists. Through a blend of stories, practices, and perspectives, we provide valuable guidance for fellow travelers navigating their own liminal spaces. So, join us as we embark on this journey and embrace the uncertainty in order to uncover the hidden wisdom that lies within the liminal spaces of life.

Information

  • Creator
    Dr. Thomas J Rundel
  • Years Active
    2015 - 2026
  • Episodes
    177
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © All rights reserved
  • Show Website
    Liminal Living

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