The Chase Jarvis LIVE Show

Chase Jarvis
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Chase Jarvis is a visionary photographer, artist and entrepreneur. Cited as one of the most influential photographers of the past decade, he is the founder & CEO of CreativeLive. In this show, Chase and some of the world's top creative entrepreneurs, artists, and celebrities share stories designed to help you gain actionable insights to recognize your passions and achieve your goals.

  1. 21h ago

    Summer School: Ben Uyeda on Escalation, Purpose, and Building Bigger Without Losing Yourself

    Hey friends, Chase here. Every summer, I revisit conversations from the archive that have stood the test of time. Not because I'm nostalgic, but because the best ideas don't expire. They deepen. This is another installment of Summer School—episodes I return to when I'm stuck. When a pattern I've been conditioned to see suddenly needs to be broken, I go back to the people who help me think differently. This one with Ben Uyeda is near the top of that list. Ben is a designer, entrepreneur, and creative force of nature who left a successful architecture firm and an Ivy League teaching gig to bring high-design ideas to the masses through media. His designs—widely shared, often free—have reached tens of millions of people and are being built around the world. And his most recent project? A 65-room hotel on 180 acres in the California desert, adjacent to Joshua Tree National Park, built with a team but rooted in the same hands-on curiosity that started with a concrete vase on YouTube. When this episode first aired, I called it one of the most shocking conversations of the year—not because Ben tried to shock anyone, but because I didn't expect it to blow me away. It did. It still does. His superpower is orthogonal thinking. Where most of us see the world through the patterns we've been trained into, Ben keeps asking the next question—about scale, purpose, risk, money, mastery, and what creatives actually want when they say they want "more." This conversation changed how I think about career growth. I think it can change yours too. "Forget scaling. What I think is really intriguing is this idea of escalation." — Ben Uyeda Summer School: Ben Uyeda on Escalation, Purpose, and Building Bigger Without Losing Yourself Ask Ben how he describes what he does, and he keeps it almost stubbornly simple: he designs things and he makes them. Those things range from a small concrete vase to a dining table to homes—and all the way up to Reset Hotel: 65 rooms on 180 acres near Joshua Tree. The leap sounds impossible until you understand his model. Most creatives, Ben argues, get trapped in a false choice. Either you're the solo maker—writing the book, building the table, running the photo shoot—or you're the manager of something massive, taking in everyone's opinions and slowly losing contact with the craft. He thinks the more interesting path sits between them: escalate. Scaling is repeating one thing at higher volume for better margins. Escalation is using each project as practice for a bigger adventure—vase to furniture to staircase to house to hotel—with new skills, collaborators, and risk at every step. There is no clean line from designing a vase to building a hotel. But there are incremental steps. In Ben's case, roughly five years from vase to house. Another five from house to hotel. Each jump maybe 50x to 100x in scale. The next project isn't the destination. It's skill-building—and an opportunity to meet the people you'll need when the economic risk gets larger. That distinction is the heart of this episode. And if you've ever chased "scale" when what you really wanted was growth, challenge, grit, relationships, and a life that still feels like yours, this one will hit hard. What You'll Hear in This Episode How Ben describes his work—from concrete vases to a desert hotel, and why he focuses on the doing Why small creative projects feel like Zen practice—and why bigger ones require learning to pass the ball The tension every creator knows: curiosity and economic safety often feel like they're pulling in opposite directions Scaling vs. escalating—and why most creatives think they want scale when they actually want challenge, skill, and connection The paperclip-to-house Craigslist story as a model for adventurous creative careers Why nature is becoming a luxury good—and how that thesis shaped Reset Hotel Ben's multi-year process for building a point of view: observations, post-its, journaling, and knowing when you're secure enough to ask bigger questions How to borrow pattern recognition from outside your field (Ben's favorite: food) What AI changes—and what it doesn't: reputation, responsibility, and embracing creative fear instead of waiting until you feel safe The story of Reset Hotel, Industry Night for creatives, and why physical immersion may be the next horizon Scale vs. Escalate This is the idea I keep coming back to—and the one that originally made this episode unforgettable. Typical entrepreneurial advice says: find a minimum viable product, then scale. For creatives, Ben says, that model often fails. Scaling optimizes for volume, repetition, and efficiency. Escalation optimizes for adventure: trade the paperclip for the lighter, the lighter for something bigger, and keep going—not by doing the same trade forever, but by graduating the game. Chase's own lived experience lines up with Ben's: escalation built the best things in his life—relationships, skills, grit, humanity. Scaling often decoupled him from those same things. That's the trap. People hear "economic upside" and chase repetition. What many of them actually want is escalating challenge—backstory, resources, personal development, network, connection—the exact texture of a project like building a hotel with your hands, your partners, and your reputation on the line. Ben didn't know this as sage wisdom going in. He learned it. Early ambition and big swings "worked," but felt like speedrunning a video game—fast completion with a strange emptiness afterward. Over time he learned something more useful about himself: his long-range visionary chess game is limited, but his commitment and belief once he chooses a path are incredibly strong. That self-knowledge became the architecture for taking on Reset. Nature as Luxury—and How a Hotel Got Built from a Thesis Ben's confidence in the hotel didn't come from a weekend of inspiration. It came from years of noticing. One signal: between roughly 2013 and 2016, monthly active users on Instagram and visits to national parks both exploded. The attention economy was booming—and simultaneously creating unprecedented demand for its opposite: walking through Yosemite or Joshua Tree, somewhere with little or no cell service. His larger thesis: as digital consumption becomes frictionless, we start craving the analog. The more algorithmically efficient our feeds get, the more we want to throw the phone aside, touch grass, hike, watch a real sunset. Because digital experiences got so good at being artificial, nature itself starts to feel like a scarce luxury—not just a pretty view from a coastal city, but immersive emptiness, dark skies, raw land. That thesis, plus an audience built by sharing design ideas, plus collaborators from craftspeople to investors, plus a shipping-container house project that opened new conversations—those pieces compounded into Reset. Ben is blunt that this kind of vision doesn't arrive as effortless brilliance. It's multi-year. Curious. Plodding. Built from obvious observations written on post-it notes until they start to arrange themselves into a next move. His practical advice for creatives trying to think at that altitude: Don't pour all your curiosity into tools and tactics alone. Also ask the scarier questions: What's my place in this discipline? What's my place in the broader economy? Earn enough security to think. For Ben, around $100k of income was the point where economic stress dropped enough for bigger questions to enter the process—not as luxury branding, but as creative fuel. Look outside your industry. Food is his favorite lens because he has emotional distance plus deep daily connection. Farm-to-table, farmers markets becoming aspirational, celebrities posting chickens instead of Bugattis—he's watching a backlash against efficiency and mass production. Then he asks: what's the design-and-craft version of that for me? Talk it out with peers. The work is often solo. The therapy and pattern recognition are better in community—ideally in person, without a competitive chip on your shoulder. Timecodes So You Can Jump Around 00:00 – Welcome and why this episode is part of Summer School 03:55 – Ben Uyeda joins the show 05:12 – How Ben describes what he does: design things, make them, from vase to hotel 07:33 – Are you bananas? Risk, scale, and building a hotel with your bare hands 12:51 – Forget scaling: why escalation is the more interesting creative model 14:12 – From YouTube vase to 65-room hotel—and the skill (and people) built along the way 16:27 – Chase on the difference between escalating challenge and chasing scale 18:42 – Did Ben know this going in—or learn it the hard way? 21:09 – Instagram growth, national parks, and the demand for the analog 24:24 – Why nature is becoming a luxury good 27:31 – How to build a creative thesis over years (not a weekend) 39:27 – Cheat codes: borrow pattern recognition from food (and other industries) 49:00 – AI fear, reputation, responsibility, and what still can't be automated 57:30 – Reset Hotel: dark skies, building the right way, and the first new ground-up hotel in the area in 15 years 01:07:36 – Where to follow the project—and Industry Night for creatives Why This Conversation Still Matters If anything, this episode is more urgent now than when we first recorded it. The creator economy still rewards the idea that the goal is to make one thing and multiply it forever. Platforms still optimize for volume. AI is accelerating that pressure—making certain end products cheaper and more abundant, and making a lot of talented people scared. Ben's counsel isn't "don't worry." It's the opposite. Be scared. Talk to friends. Diversify your thinking. Double down on reputation and responsibility—being the person clients call because you fix problems, even when the brief is imperfect. Accept that fear doesn't vanish when you "ma

    Summer School: Ben Uyeda on Escalation, Purpose, and Building Bigger Without Losing Yourself

  2. Jul 15

    Summer School: Tony Robbins on Peak Performance, Precision Medicine, and Transforming Your Quality of Life

    Hey friends, Chase here. Every summer, I revisit conversations from the archive that have stood the test of time. Not because I'm nostalgic, but because the best ideas don't expire. They deepen. This is another installment of Summer School—episodes I go back to when I'm stuck, looking for the person in my network who's already lived the answer. This one with Tony Robbins is a perfect example. I've been navigating some peak performance challenges around my physical body—joints breaking down from a life as an athlete. Tony has spent years deep in the breakthroughs happening in precision medicine and regenerative health. I originally brought him on the show to learn what was possible. I'm bringing the conversation back for Summer School because those questions matter even more now. Tony is a legend: #1 New York Times bestselling author, life and business strategist, entrepreneur, philanthropist, and peak performance expert. He's coached world-class athletes, entertainers, Fortune 500 CEOs, and U.S. presidents. He's also a friend. I've been front row at his multi-day seminars. I've used his techniques—from mental training to visualization to priming—and yes, I've walked on fire with him. But this conversation goes beyond mindset. It goes into the habits that separate people who are successful and fulfilled… and into Life Force, Tony's book on the regenerative medicine breakthroughs that can transform the quality of your life—and the lives of the people you love. "Success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure." — Tony Robbins Summer School: Tony Robbins on Peak Performance, Precision Medicine, and Transforming Your Quality of Life Tony's obsession is a simple question with a lifelong answer: what actually changes the quality of people's lives? He frames the work as pattern recognition, pattern utilization, and pattern creation—learning from the best so you don't waste 10 or 20 years figuring it out the hard way. Then standing on those shoulders long enough to create your own. That lens shows up everywhere in this episode: in habits, in health, and in mindset. After being told some of his own health challenges were irreversible, Tony experienced firsthand how regenerative technology didn't just help him heal—it made him stronger. And the bigger point he makes is that these breakthroughs aren't reserved for the ultra-wealthy. As technology doubles in power and halves in cost, access keeps expanding. Medicine isn't the whole story, though. Tony also deconstructs the patterns of top performers—because your habits and your mindset still determine whether any of it matters. What You'll Hear in This Episode Why Tony does this work—and how growing up with pain made him obsessed with helping people reclaim themselves The habits of people who are both successful and fulfilled, starting with a mission bigger than yourself Why progress equals happiness, and why comfort quietly kills growth How to prime your day on purpose: cold water, gratitude, three-to-thrive, sincere compliments, and doing the hardest thing first The personal story behind Life Force—family illness, a pituitary tumor, a torn rotator cuff, spinal stenosis, and the stem cell turning point What's changing in regenerative medicine: stem cells, gene editing, diagnostics, sleep science, and more How to use Life Force as a guidebook, not a 600-page homework assignment Why mindset still decides the outcome—including the surprising power of belief, placebos, and your "emotional home" Patterns of Peak Performance One of the most useful parts of this conversation is how concrete it gets. Identifying patterns that already work for peak performers can save years of trial and error. In this episode, three keep coming up: 1. Have a mission Have something you care about more than yourself. It could be your family, your craft, your business, your community—anything real. Tony's blunt about this: when people have something more important than themselves, they don't run out of energy or excitement. When it's only about you, comfort creeps in. And comfort is where growth dies. His one-word formula for happiness is the same one he's taught for decades: progress. If you're not making progress, you're not growing. And if you're not growing, you're not giving. Growing and giving is the game. 2. Prime with gratitude Most people assume their thoughts are simply "their thoughts." Tony's point is that your thoughts are primed by your environment—so you might as well prime yourself on purpose. His morning starts with cold water (not because he loves it, but because it trains the brain: when I say go, we go). Then a 10-minute priming practice built around gratitude, a prayer-type focus, and "three to thrive"—three outcomes he sees and feels as already done. Why gratitude? Because you can't be grateful and angry at the same time. You can't be grateful and fearful at the same time. Most people, as he puts it, have a highway to stress and a dirt road to happiness. Priming is how you reverse that wiring. He also leaves someone a sincere audio compliment each day—not generic praise, but something specific that deepens the relationship. You can learn his free priming process at tonyrobbins.com/priming. 3. Do the hardest thing first Difficult work needs your best energy. Tony's rule is simple: crush the hardest thing early, create momentum, and let everything else get easier. How you start and end your day both matter. Of the two, he says starting well may matter most—because it frames everything that follows. Timecodes So You Can Jump Around 00:00 – Welcome and why this episode is part of Summer School 04:23 – Tony Robbins joins the show 05:03 – What gets Tony up in the morning: impact, reclaiming yourself, and pattern recognition 11:37 – Habits of the most successful and fulfilled people 13:16 – Progress equals happiness; growing and giving as the game 14:44 – Priming your day: cold plunge, gratitude, three-to-thrive, hardest thing first 20:35 – Why Tony wrote Life Force—and the personal experiences behind it 22:21 – The cancer story that shifted him from victimhood to biohacking 25:20 – Pituitary tumor diagnosis, second opinions, and learning to question standard answers 28:53 – Snowboard crash, torn rotator cuff, spinal stenosis—and the stem cell turning point 31:37 – Regenerative medicine breakthroughs worth knowing 38:54 – How to approach Life Force as a guidebook 43:19 – Access and cost: why these tools aren't only for the wealthy 47:00 – Mindset, placebos, and upgrading your emotional home 52:38 – Closing thoughts Why This Conversation Still Matters It's easy to treat health, energy, and longevity as tomorrow's problem—something you'll deal with when you have more time, more money, or a clearer diagnosis. This conversation makes that delay harder to justify. Tony's point isn't that you need every breakthrough tomorrow. It's that ignorance isn't bliss. Ignorance is pain. And in the worst cases, it's preventable loss. The diagnostic tools alone—especially if you're 40 or older—can change the trajectory of a life before a crisis shows up. At the same time, he keeps bringing it back to something simpler and more immediate: how you start your day, what you care about more than yourself, and whether you're actually making progress. The regenerative medicine is extraordinary. The habits and mindset are what make any of it usable. That's why this episode earned a Summer School seat. The science has only accelerated since we first recorded it. The human part—fulfillment, discipline, belief—hasn't gotten any less essential. Keep Going Deeper If this conversation resonates: Life Force: How New Breakthroughs in Precision Medicine Can Transform the Quality of Your Life & Those You Love — Tony's guidebook to regenerative medicine, diagnostics, and the mindset that makes healing possible. (100% of profits are donated to feed people in need and fund research on Alzheimer's, cancer, and heart disease.) Free priming practice: tonyrobbins.com/priming Follow Tony: Instagram | X/Twitter | Website Questions to Reflect On What do I care about more than myself—and is that mission actually driving my days? Where have I confused success with fulfillment? Am I priming my mornings on purpose, or being primed by accident? What's the hardest thing I keep delaying—and what would change if I did it first? Am I waiting for a health crisis before I get curious about prevention, diagnostics, or recovery? Where has "I don't have access" become a story that keeps me from doing the homework? What 3–5 things could I do right now—habits, sleep, diagnostics, mindset—to raise the quality of my life and protect the people I love? The Core Idea Peak performance isn't just about grinding harder. It's about recognizing the patterns that create an extraordinary life—then using them, and eventually creating your own. Your body is part of that equation. So is your mind. So is having something you care about enough that you refuse to get comfortable. Tony's invitation is simple and demanding: don't wait until you're forced to pay attention. Learn what's available. Prime your days on purpose. Grow. Give. And don't let an old story about what's "possible for people like me" keep you from tools that could change—or even save—a life. If there's one lesson worth carrying forward from this Summer School session, it's this: Success without fulfillment is the ultimate failure—and progress, in body and mind, is still the most reliable path to both.

    Summer School: Tony Robbins on Peak Performance, Precision Medicine, and Transforming Your Quality of Life

  3. Jul 8

    Summer School: Brené Brown on Vulnerability, Creativity, and the Courage to Be Seen

    Hey friends, Chase here. Every summer, I revisit conversations from the archive that have stood the test of time. Not because I'm nostalgic, but because the best ideas don't expire. They deepen. This is the first installment of Summer School, a series where we're bringing back conversations that still have something important to teach us. This episode with Brené Brown was originally recorded more than a decade ago, shortly after Daring Greatly was published. A lot has changed since then. The platforms have changed. The technology has changed. The creative landscape has changed. But one thing hasn't. If you want to make meaningful work, build something that matters, or live a creative life, you'll eventually have to face criticism, self-doubt, and the fear of being seen. That's why I keep coming back to this conversation. Brené's research reminds us that creativity and vulnerability are inseparable. You can't create something original while trying to protect yourself from judgment. You can't innovate without uncertainty. And you can't live wholeheartedly if you're constantly waiting for permission. Twelve years later, this conversation feels just as relevant—maybe even more so. Summer School: Brené Brown on Vulnerability, Creativity, and the Courage to Be Seen One of the reasons this conversation has endured is because it addresses something every creator wrestles with: how to keep showing up when criticism feels inevitable. Brené explains why vulnerability isn't weakness—it's the birthplace of creativity, innovation, trust, and meaningful connection. The people creating remarkable work aren't fearless. They're simply willing to enter the arena despite the uncertainty. Whether you're an artist, entrepreneur, leader, or simply trying to live more authentically, these lessons remain timeless. What You'll Hear in This Episode Why vulnerability is the foundation of creativity, not the enemy of it How fear of criticism keeps us from doing our best work What Theodore Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" speech teaches creators today Why belonging begins with belonging to yourself How perfectionism masquerades as self-protection The difference between courage and fearlessness Practical ways to create even when you're uncertain Why this conversation remains as relevant today as when it was first recorded Timecodes So You Can Jump Around 00:00 – Welcome to Summer School and why this conversation is worth revisiting 06:30 – Brené on vulnerability and why it's misunderstood 18:00 – Creativity, innovation, and the courage to be seen 32:00 – The cost of perfectionism and people-pleasing 46:00 – Theodore Roosevelt's "Man in the Arena" and dealing with criticism 59:00 – Shame, resilience, and wholehearted living 73:00 – Audience Q&A 87:00 – Final thoughts and key takeaways Why This Conversation Still Matters It's remarkable how much of this conversation feels like it could have been recorded today. We're living in a world where sharing your work has never been easier—and where criticism has never traveled faster. The temptation is to wait until you're completely ready before putting yourself out there. But as Brené reminds us, waiting for certainty is often another form of hiding. The people who make meaningful work aren't the ones who eliminate vulnerability. They're the ones who learn to create alongside it. That's as true today as it was twelve years ago. Keep Exploring Brené's Work If this conversation resonates, we've been fortunate to continue exploring these ideas with Brené over the years. You might also enjoy: Daring Greatly: Unlock Your Creativity with Brené Brown Brené Brown's Rules for Overcoming Criticism and Getting in the Arena Brené Brown Revisited: The Courage to Belong in a Divided World Brené Brown: The Quest for True Belonging Questions to Reflect On Where am I holding back because I'm afraid of criticism? What would I create if I stopped waiting to feel ready? Where has perfectionism become a substitute for courage? Whose opinions have I given too much power over my creative life? What would stepping into the arena look like this week? The Core Idea The greatest creative breakthroughs don't happen after fear disappears. They happen when we're willing to create despite it. That's why this conversation continues to resonate more than a decade later. The tools have changed. The platforms have changed. But courage, vulnerability, and authentic creative expression remain timeless. If there's one lesson worth carrying forward from this Summer School session, it's this: The work that changes your life—and perhaps someone else's—is almost always waiting on the other side of vulnerability.

    Summer School: Brené Brown on Vulnerability, Creativity, and the Courage to Be Seen

  4. Jul 1

    Your Imperfection Is the Advantage

    Hey friends, Chase here We are living in a moment where perfect is cheaper than ever. A few words into a prompt can generate an image. A template can make your brand look polished. A filter can smooth the rough edges. An AI tool can help you produce something slick, flattering, and technically impressive in seconds. On the surface, that sounds like creative abundance. But there is a catch. When everything can be perfected, perfect starts to feel invisible. That is the tension at the heart of this episode. In a world flooded with polish, your imperfections are not the liability. They are the signal. They are the thing that makes your work feel alive. They are the fingerprints that remind people there is a human being on the other side. Whether we are talking about your writing, your art, your business, your personal brand, or the way you show up in conversation, authenticity is becoming more scarce. And because it is more scarce, it is becoming more valuable. This is not an excuse to make sloppy work. It is not a call to be careless. It is not a suggestion that everything needs to be grungy, lo-fi, or deliberately rough. The point is much more useful than that: the future does not belong to the most polished version of everybody else. It belongs to the thing only you can make. That is why your imperfection is the advantage. Perfect Is Boring Because Perfect Is Predictable There is a reason perfect things often slide right past us. It is not just taste. It is biology. Our brains are wired to ignore consistent patterns and fixate on disruptions. We notice the thing that breaks the pattern. The one blade of grass that moves. The tiny irregularity. The detail that does not quite fit. Evolutionarily, that mattered because the disruption might have been danger. Creatively, it still matters because disruption is what catches attention. That is why a too-perfect image can feel dead. It is why stock photography often feels generic. It is why so much AI-generated visual work can feel like slop even when it is technically "good." It is predictable. It has been averaged into smoothness. It has no meaningful edge. And when everything around us starts to look polished, polished stops being special. The creative opportunity now is not to chase a cleaner version of sameness. It is to understand the specific ways your work can break the pattern. The weirdness. The humanity. The point of view. The taste. The slight asymmetry that could only come from you. Imperfection Has Always Been Part of What We Love Most of the things we love in art are not perfect. They are human. Think about the warmth of music played on vinyl. The light leaks from an old camera. Film grain. Paper texture. VHS distortion. A hand-drawn line that is not perfectly straight. A stage performance that leans on raw emotion. The detail that feels a little unpredictable, a little alive, a little impossible to manufacture cleanly. Those are not defects. They are part of the experience. That is the beauty of being you. You cannot be perfect. It is impossible. Even when you try, something human slips through. Your taste. Your timing. Your awkwardness. Your humor. Your obsession. Your point of view. Your hand drawn line that is beautifully off by just a bit. In a world of homogeneity, you being you is an act of rebellion. That is not a cute phrase. It is a real creative strategy. If everyone has access to the same tools, the same prompts, the same templates, and the same visual trends, the thing that separates your work is not the tool. It is the person using it. The Question Is No Longer "Can You Create?" There was a time when the bar was simply whether you could make the thing. Could you shoot the photo? Could you write the essay? Could you record the video? Could you build the product? Could you design the page? Now the bar is changing. The more creation becomes automated, the more valuable it becomes to make something only you could create. Not something flattering. Not something frictionless. Not something that looks like it belongs in the same feed as everything else. Something that carries your signature. This is why authenticity is becoming scarce. It is also why people are hungry for creator content that feels real. When every surface can be perfected, imperfection becomes a signal. It tells the audience that there is a person here. A voice here. A perspective here. A set of fingerprints here. And as AI gets better at creating any aesthetic you like, including artificial imperfection that presents as authentic, the focus shifts again. It becomes less about what is being said and more about who is saying it. That is the big takeaway: you matter now more than ever before. Deliberate Imperfection Is a Creative Tool This does not mean you should pursue slop. That distinction matters. The point is not to make careless work and call it authentic. The point is to understand what kind of imperfection belongs to you and then master it as deliberately as you would master any other creative tool. Maybe you love film grain. Go deep. Maybe you love JPEG compression and the artifacts it creates. Study it. Maybe you are drawn to hand-drawn lines, VHS distortion, paper textures, strange dialogue, raw performance, awkward honesty, or a niche visual language that does not make sense to everyone. Follow that thread. The goal is not to be rough for the sake of being rough. The goal is to channel the specific chaos, taste, and humanity you are drawn to in a way that becomes unmistakably yours. If your aesthetic is polished, great. Double down. Triple down. Ten X on that. Just make sure the polish is based on you, not on a generic idea of what polish is supposed to look like. Your work does not have to be messy to be authentic. It has to be yours. What You'll Hear in This Episode This is a short episode, but the message is direct: perfect is no longer the advantage. In a world where everything can be smoothed, generated, and optimized, the edge belongs to the work that feels human. Why too polished, too proper, and too slick are losing power in creativity, branding, and personal connection Why authenticity is becoming more scarce, and therefore more valuable Why the shift toward imperfection is showing up in popular culture and even inside the platforms that helped create the polished-feed era Why perfect anything becomes boring when it is predictable How human biology makes us notice disruption instead of consistent patterns Why stock photography and AI slop often feel forgettable, even when they are technically polished Why deliberate imperfection is a creative mandate, not a lack of craft How film grain, light leaks, vinyl warmth, and raw performance reveal what we actually respond to Why being yourself is an act of rebellion in a world of homogeneity Why your awkward, quirky, unapologetic creativity may be exactly what your audience wants Timecodes So You Can Jump to What You Need If you're not listening straight through, here are a few landmarks to help you find the part that speaks to where you are right now: 00:00 – A note about my weekly email and where I put my time and attention each week 01:50 – Welcome to the micro show and why too polished, too proper, and too slick are dead 02:20 – Why authenticity is more scarce and more valuable than ever 02:43 – Why the alarm bell is ringing now and how this idea is filtering through popular culture 03:07 – The Instagram CEO's point about authenticity, creator content, and imperfection as a signal 04:03 – What this means for anyone banking on a perfect, all too polished aesthetic 04:26 – Why perfect anything is boring, and why this is rooted in human biology 04:48 – How our brains notice disruptions in patterns rather than the patterns themselves 05:13 – Why stock photography and AI slop feel predictable and forgettable 05:45 – The mandate to master your own deliberate imperfection 06:07 – Why so many things we love in art are imperfect, from vinyl warmth to film grain 06:31 – Why the beauty of being you is that you cannot be perfect 06:51 – Why being yourself is an act of rebellion in a world of homogeneity 07:11 – Why the focus will shift from what is being said to who is saying it 07:38 – Why now is an amazing time for your work to stand out in an authentic niche 07:58 – How to go deep on the imperfections and textures you are drawn to 08:35 – Why this is not permission to pursue slop or force a grungy aesthetic 08:55 – Why you are the imperfect, beautiful element in the next chapter of creativity 09:26 – A thank you for listening, sharing, and growing together Read This If Your Work Feels Too Imperfect If you have been waiting until your work looks more polished before you share it, pay attention to that instinct. There is nothing wrong with craft. There is nothing wrong with quality. There is nothing wrong with caring deeply about the details. But the pursuit of polish can become a hiding place when it turns into a way to remove yourself from the work. Sometimes we sand down the exact thing that would have made the work connect. We remove the weird sentence. We smooth the rough edge. We choose the safer visual. We make the thing look more like what we think it is supposed to look like and less like something only we could have made. That is the trap. Your audience does not need you to become a cleaner copy of the internet. They need the part of you that has taste. They need the part of you that notices what other people miss. They need the part of you that is awkward, specific, playful, obsessive, and unapologetic. That does not mean you publish work you do not care about. It means you stop confusing sameness with excellence. Stop Treating Polish Like Proof Polish can be useful, but polish is not proof of meaning. A thing can be polished and empty. It can be clean and forgettable. It can be technically impressive and still feel like nobody wa

    Your Imperfection Is the Advantage

  5. Jun 24

    Jeff Boyd: Why Hard Things Are the Opportunity

    Hey friends, Chase here Jeff Boyd is on the show today, and this conversation is about building the kind of life and business that does not always look like the predominant story on the internet. Jeff is the founder and chairman of MTE, More Than Energy, which he describes in this episode as "an energy that loves you back." Before that, he spent 15 years as the President and co-owner of Luggage Free, where he expanded global operations to more than 100 countries before selling the company in 2019. What I loved about this conversation is that it is not the usual story about chasing the next app, raising venture capital, or building something because the internet told you that is what entrepreneurship is supposed to look like. This is a conversation about physical products, unsexy businesses, competition, fatherhood, leadership, and what it means to keep choosing hard things on purpose. Jeff says it plainly right at the top: "That's why I tell my team all the time. They just look at me and I'm like, if it were easy, everybody be doing it. We got to do what nobody else is willing to do, and then you're going to be happy we did it. And I tell them that I'm like, oh yeah, this is hard. And I'm excited about it. Because now that's an opportunity for us because we'll outwork anybody." That idea is at the center of this episode. We talk about the grind of building something real, why curiosity matters more than credentials, what sports teach us about business, why leadership is not about personality type, and how the best things in life often come down to loving the process instead of obsessing over the outcome. Why This Conversation Matters Right Now Most of the entrepreneurs and creators we see online are building in public, building digitally, or building something that looks like the current version of what the internet rewards. There is nothing wrong with that, but it is not the only path. In this episode, I say: "A lot of folks I know in the audience feel a pressure to make their businesses walk and talk and look like the creators and the entrepreneurs that see out there in the world, which is one of the reasons I want to start celebrating some people who are building really successful lives, careers." That is why I wanted to have Jeff on the show. He built and sold a shipping business. Now he is building a physical product in the health and wellness space. He is not chasing the obvious thing. He is not trying to make his work look like everyone else's. Jeff's path is a reminder that there is a whole world of entrepreneurship outside the digital-first story. There are products, services, local businesses, physical goods, retail shelves, manufacturing problems, customer conversations, teams, families, and real-life constraints. And sometimes, that is where the opportunity is. What We Explore in This Episode Jeff's early business story and how he became employee one at a shipping company before helping grow it around the world. The "answer is yes" mindset that helped Luggage Free expand into all 50 states and more than 100 countries. Why physical products are different and what changes when you are building with atoms instead of bits. The origin of MTE and why Jeff wanted to build "an energy that loves you back." What it means to enjoy the grind when the work is hard, relentless, and full of problems you do not know how to solve yet. Fatherhood, presence, and time and why Jeff says he is "so all in now" with his family. Competition, sport, and business and why Jeff still trains and competes as a long jumper. Leadership and authenticity and why Jeff says people do what you do, not what you say you do. Second and third career arcs and what Jeff has learned about zooming out, building teams, and letting people play the right roles. The Core Idea: If It Were Easy, Everybody Would Be Doing It One of the strongest threads in this conversation is Jeff's relationship with hard things. He is not pretending the grind is glamorous. He says straight up that building physical products, selling through retail, and getting people to care is hard. But he also sees that difficulty as part of the opportunity. "You know I some of this stuff I think the harder it is, the better for me. For sure. You want, you want to bear. People are going to be like, oh, I don't have the guts to do this. That's right. Yeah. And then the ones that do, that's a that's another level, right? That's another fence they cleared. But then it's like, okay, well now you did that. But are you ready to grind now because it's a grind." That is the mindset that shows up again and again in the episode. The point is not that everything should be hard for the sake of being hard. The point is that difficulty can reveal where other people quit. That is true in sport. It is true in business. It is true in building a family, a product, a brand, a company, or a body of work. The Answer Is Yes Jeff's first major business story starts with Luggage Free. At the beginning, the company was taking orders by hand and trying to get the phone to ring. Then the first real call came in. "Anyway, so we're trying to get the phone to ring so we can handwrite our orders. And the first call, the guy, you know, we're all. It was kind of like a movie. We're all like, you know, hushed around him, waiting, you know, hearing him, he's like, oh, I'm sorry, we don't serve. North Carolina hangs up. And we were like, oh, dude, Gary, of course you serve anybody." That moment became a kind of operating philosophy: "And I was like, from now on, the answer is yes. Like whatever anybody says answered yes. And with that really that charge? Yeah. We were quickly in all 50 states and we grew to 109 countries throughout the world. And it was always in response to a call." There is something powerful in that. Not because saying yes is always the right answer, but because early in a business, the market often tells you where to go before your strategy deck does. Someone calls. Someone asks. Someone has a need. Someone gives you a clue. The question is whether you are willing to follow it. Building Something You Can Hold After selling Luggage Free in 2019, Jeff had time and space. He was not rushing into the next thing. He was riding his bike, playing tennis, spending time with his family, and looking for what might call him next. What called him was not another service business. It was a physical product. "And so in 19 sold it 2019, 2019 were operating all over the world, offices all over and sold it and was kind of free to at that point, I was like, all right, I want to like what I loved about it was the challenge and the fun and the competition. Right. You're building, you're competing." He continues: "But I what I yearn for was a product and something that was tangible I could actually hold right and do a different scent or a different flavor or different size or different color, whatever." That desire eventually became MTE. Jeff had been trying to solve his own energy problem, stacking supplements, chasing better mood, better energy, and better performance, until he realized the pieces were not working together. "And I realized I was like, Frankenstein. I mean, like, we were talking about it last night, like piling all these supplements together to try and make yourself feel better, even even like ten supplements, which doesn't sound that bad. Shit. Crazy. Yeah. We'll be like a suitcase full when you're traveling, you know?" MTE came from that search. "So we built it's an energy that loves you back. Right. Like an energy drink that loves you back. Yeah. Right. So you get prebiotics and caffeine free blend. That's better than caffeine. Yeah. So now you're getting energy that feels great that you can trust. Sure. And no jitters, no crash, no impact on sleep." Curiosity, Thrill, and Figuring It Out One of my favorite parts of this conversation is when Jeff talks about starting something in a category where he did not have obvious experience. He had not built beverage brands before. He was not a chemist. He was stepping into a new world. His answer was not fear. It was curiosity. "Yeah. Like, I like hair on fire. Like, let's go figure this out." Then he gets to the larger point: "I like it's curiosity and thrill. And that's what it boils down to. Right. Like, I think you you like that's what entrepreneurship is. It's solving problems and and finding solutions to things. Even if you've done it 20 times, they're going to be solutions that need to be had in the evolving world and landscape in which we operate." That is entrepreneurship in a sentence. You do not get to know everything before you begin. You do not get a guarantee that the answer is obvious. You get a problem, a question, a changing landscape, and the chance to learn fast enough to keep moving. Jeff says: "But that's why I love it. I think if, if we boil it down, I love the curiosity that that is necessary to just because you're like, I don't know the answer to that. Instead of that overwhelming me or said of panicking, I'm going to go learn because I'm sure there's more than one answer. We'll figure out. Maybe we'll triangulate, figure it out. Yeah, get to a solution. And and then we'll know for next time. And then we'll be able to iterate and make it better. And on it go. Like I love that process." You Have to Love the Process The conversation moves from business into fatherhood, sport, and the shape of a life. Again and again, we come back to process. Jeff says it directly: "Yeah. You have to love the process, right? And I think that's true of anything, particularly in stuff like that where it's easy to focus on the outcome. I'm lose 20 pounds, I'm going to whatever it is, I'm going to get this promotion, you know. And then I think what happens is then the outcome just naturally happens because you love the process." This applies to entrepreneurship, training, parent

    Jeff Boyd: Why Hard Things Are the Opportunity

  6. Jun 17

    Bet On Yourself

    Hey friends, Chase here There is a particular kind of silence that can change the direction of a life. Not the peaceful kind. Not the silence you seek out when you need space to think. I mean the silence that lands in the room right after you say something true. The silence after you tell people what you really want. The silence after you say, out loud, that you are thinking about leaving the safe path and choosing the one that actually feels like yours. I remember that silence very clearly. I remember the day I told my family I was going to leave the path everyone expected for me and become a photographer. This was not me announcing a hobby. It was not a side project. It was not some casual thing I thought might be fun to explore. I was saying, in effect, this is what I feel compelled to do. This is the direction I have to chase. And the room got quiet. My parents were not against it, and I want to be clear about that. But I could feel the worry. I could feel the polite smiles and the nods that were probably covering up a very natural concern. I was worried too. I knew it was scary. I knew I might embarrass myself. I knew I might blow up my financial security, fail publicly, and end up crawling back to a "real job." That fear was real. But that moment stuck with me because it mattered. It still matters. Because so much of what keeps us from the life we want is not the actual failure. It is the fear of being seen before we know how the story ends. It is that quiet pause after we name the dream. That is what this episode is about. Betting on yourself, not because there is no fear, but because fear cannot be the thing that gets to design your life. The Moment After You Say the Thing There are obvious forms of resistance in life. Someone tells you no. A door closes. A plan falls apart. A check does not clear. Those things are hard, but at least they are clear. What I am talking about here is more subtle. It is the tiny moment after you reveal what you want and the people around you do not immediately understand. That moment can feel like a verdict, even when it is not. Somebody pauses, and suddenly you start filling in the blanks. Maybe they think I am crazy. Maybe they are disappointed. Maybe this dream is irresponsible. Maybe I should have kept it to myself. And before anything has actually happened, the fear begins doing its work. I have come to believe that this is one of the places where a lot of people stop. Not because someone actively shut them down, but because the silence felt too uncomfortable. If everyone cheered immediately, maybe they would keep going. If everyone criticized them loudly, maybe they would have something to push against. But the silence is different. It creates space for doubt, and doubt can be incredibly persuasive when the dream is still fragile. So if you are somewhere in your life right now wondering whether it is too late, whether you missed the window, whether you are allowed to want something different, I want you to pay attention to that. Especially if you cannot honestly say that you are 100% going after your dreams. This one is for you. Playing It Safe Is Usually Fear in Disguise Most of us do not say, "I am afraid, so I am not going to do the thing." We use better language than that. We say we are being practical. We say we are being responsible. We say we are waiting for the right time, the right plan, the right amount of money, the right amount of certainty. And sometimes those are legitimate considerations. I am not here to tell you to be reckless. But I am here to say that playing it safe is often fear wearing a very respectable outfit. Fear has a job. It is optimized for survival. That is useful when you are in actual danger. But fear is not optimized for creativity. It is not optimized for happiness, joy, connection, harmony, fulfillment, or the gifts you have to give and receive in this life. Fear wants to keep you alive. It does not care if you feel fully expressed. That matters because if you let fear make all your decisions, you may end up safe, but you will also end up smaller than you were meant to be. You will build a life around avoiding discomfort rather than moving toward aliveness. And the best stuff in life is usually just on the other side of the comfort zone you are coddling. By the way, craving comfort is natural. Of course it is. We all want security. We all want belonging. We all want the people we love to understand our choices. But comfort cannot be the only thing we optimize for. At some point, the question becomes: am I protecting my life, or am I hiding from it? The World Will Keep Throwing Curveballs If you are going for it, the world is going to throw you curveballs. That is part of the deal. Not because the world is against you, but because challenge is how you grow. The world cannot really give you anything. It can only challenge you until you become stronger. And when you get stronger, the hard things do not magically become easy. They become easier. That distinction matters. I am not promising a frictionless life. I am not saying the fear disappears or that the path suddenly becomes smooth. I am saying that you become more capable. You become more practiced. You learn how to meet the pitch that used to scare you. What I do not want is for you to quit. I do not want you to take your bat and go home. I do not want the first or fifth or fiftieth curveball to become the reason you stop playing the game you actually came here to play. Whether you meet those challenges as punishment or as part of a playful game of discovery is up to you. But either way, the challenges are coming. The invitation is to stay in the game long enough to find out who you become when you stop retreating every time it gets uncomfortable. Your Weaknesses Might Be Invitations There is something I wish more people said plainly: your weaknesses can be blessings. Not because weakness feels good. Not because fear is fun. Not because we need to romanticize struggle or pretend that everything difficult is automatically noble. But because the places where you feel weak are often the places where you are being invited to grow. That fear you feel right now does not necessarily mean you are doing the wrong thing. It may mean you are standing at the edge of something important. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is having fear and doing it anyway. This is easy to forget after years of teaching ourselves to avoid friction. Years of performing the version of ourselves that other people understand. Years of telling ourselves stories about what is realistic, acceptable, responsible, or too late. Over time, you can lose track of what you actually want. You can get so good at managing other people's expectations that you forget to ask whether the life you are maintaining is the life you want to be living. But the desire does not disappear just because you ignore it. It waits. It keeps tapping. It shows up in restlessness, envy, curiosity, frustration, and that persistent feeling that there is something more honest available to you. The Opposite of Playing It Safe Is Freedom The opposite of playing it safe is not reckless risk. That is not the message. This is not about blowing up your life just to prove you are brave. It is not about risk without measure. The opposite of playing it safe is freedom. Freedom is creating the ultimate game of life and then deciding that you are actually going to play. It is betting on yourself with your eyes open. It is taking calculated risks in the direction of what is true for you. It is refusing to let fear be the only voice in the room. That is why I keep showing up. Every week I write an email, create posts, record this show, and share work online because, in a very real way, I am betting on you. I am betting that you will see this work for what it is: a belief that you can activate. You can take calculated risks. You can get to work on your truest dreams. And more than anything, I want you to join me in that bet. What You'll Hear in This Episode This is a short episode, but the message is direct. If you have been waiting for permission, certainty, or universal understanding before you move toward the life you want, this is your reminder that fear does not get the final vote. Why the silence after you share your dream can feel so powerful, and why it keeps many people from taking action The story of telling my family I was leaving the expected path to pursue photography as a career Why playing it safe is often about fear, even when we call it responsibility Why fear is optimized for survival, not creativity, joy, connection, or fulfillment Why the comfort zone is natural to crave, but dangerous to build your whole life around How the world challenges you until you become stronger Why your weaknesses can become opportunities to grow and be brave Why courage means having fear and acting anyway Why the opposite of playing it safe is not recklessness, but freedom Why betting on yourself is a practice, not a one-time declaration Timecodes So You Can Jump to What You Need If you're not listening straight through, here are a few landmarks to help you find the part that speaks to where you are right now: 00:00 – A note about my weekly email and where I put my attention every week 01:50 – Welcome to the micro show and the short message behind today's episode 02:07 – The memory of telling my family I was leaving the expected path to become a photographer 02:44 – The quiet room, the polite smiles, and the worry underneath the silence 03:08 – The fear of public failure, financial insecurity, and having to crawl back to a "real job" 03:32 – Why the fear of saying what you want can keep you from taking action 04:11 – Why the silence after you announce your dream can be more powerful than encouragement or criticism 04:37 – The question: are you 100% going after your dreams? 05:04 – Playing it safe, fear, an

    Bet On Yourself

  7. Jun 10

    Eric Zimmer: How A Little Becomes A Lot

    Hey friends, Chase here Eric Zimmer is on the show today, and this conversation is exactly the kind of reminder we all need when we are trying to change something real. You probably know Eric from The One You Feed, his award-winning podcast about wisdom, behavior change, mental health, spirituality, and what it means to live well. But Eric's new book, How a Little Becomes a Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life, goes somewhere even more fundamental. It asks a question that feels especially urgent for creators, entrepreneurs, leaders, parents, and anyone trying to build a meaningful life in a world that constantly tells us to optimize everything: What if lasting change is not about becoming more disciplined, but about learning how to stop fighting yourself? That question matters because most of us have made change too heavy. We wrap it in shame, pressure, perfectionism, identity, ambition, self-criticism, and the fantasy of the big breakthrough. We get stuck waiting for the epiphany, the watershed moment, the dramatic turn where everything finally becomes clear. Eric's message is simpler, deeper, and more freeing: "There are moments that stand out because we pull them out and we pluck them out and we make them important, but they don't make sense without the moments before and after. There's all these little, deeply uninteresting moments where I made a small choice to move towards my recovery and away from my addiction again and again. And that's the way change really works." That idea is the center of this episode. We talk about Eric's journey from homelessness and heroin addiction to recovery, coaching, teaching, and writing; why your mind has a mind of its own; how to work with competing desires instead of pretending they are not there; and why small choices compound into a completely different life. This conversation is about loosening the grip. It is about getting back to the part of you that knows what matters, even when another part of you wants comfort, distraction, escape, or relief right now. Why This Conversation Matters Right Now We are living in a strange moment for anyone who wants to grow. On one hand, there has never been more access to tools, ideas, books, podcasts, teachers, frameworks, research, and practices that can help us change. That is extraordinary. But it also comes with a cost. The pressure to optimize every corner of our lives has never been stronger. Every scroll seems to bring another routine, another system, another habit, another rule, another version of the person we are supposed to become. We are constantly being asked to improve ourselves: What is your morning routine? What habit are you tracking? What are you optimizing? What are you building? What are you eliminating? What is the plan? Those questions can be useful at the right time. But when they show up too early, or too often, they can turn growth into another way of beating ourselves up. Eric's work reminds us that change begins with honesty. Before the perfect habit. Before the flawless system. Before the heroic reinvention. Before the new identity. Before the transformation story, there is a person being pulled in different directions. Wanting to change. Wanting to stay comfortable. Wanting what matters most. Wanting what feels good right now. Wanting freedom. Wanting safety. Wanting growth. Wanting acceptance. That does not mean something is wrong with you. It means you are human. And in that understanding, there is a kind of wisdom most self-improvement advice forgets. What We Explore in This Episode Eric's low point at 24 and how homelessness, heroin addiction, illness, and the threat of prison became the beginning of his recovery journey. Why the big turning point is not the whole story and why change actually happens in the small choices that come after. How to understand the "off-camera moments" of transformation that never make the montage but make all the difference. Why your mind has a mind of its own and what it means to be a motivationally complex person. How to work with what you want now and what you want most without shaming yourself for having competing desires. Why "playing the tape all the way through" can help you see past the first scene your mind wants to show you. How structure and story both shape change, and why systems alone are not always enough. How to hold change and acceptance at the same time when life refuses to fit into simple categories. Why trying smaller can create momentum when trying harder is not working. The Core Idea: Little by Little, a Little Becomes a Lot The fastest way to get unstuck is often to stop waiting for the big transformation and start paying attention to the next small choice. We get obsessed with the dramatic moment. The rock bottom. The epiphany. The vow. The clean break. The day everything changed. We want the music to swell. We want the story to make sense. Eric's story has one of those moments. At 24, he was homeless, addicted to heroin, physically depleted, and facing the possibility of decades in prison. Going into long-term treatment mattered. But Eric is careful not to confuse the turning point with the transformation. The transformation was not one decision. It was thousands. The decision to move toward recovery again. The decision to not use again. The decision to show up again. The decision to do the next small thing again. The decision to choose what mattered most over what felt urgent right now. The on-camera moment gets the attention. The off-camera moments create the life. Eric's point is not that ambition does not matter. It is not that insight does not matter. It is not that we should abandon goals, systems, or discipline. It is that the living center of change is choice. The small one comes first. Your Mind Has a Mind of Its Own One of the big tensions in this conversation is the voice many of us carry around that says, "If I really wanted to change, this would be easier." That voice says: You should have more discipline. You should be more consistent. You should know better by now. You should not still struggle with this. You should be able to just decide. Eric's response is that we are not simple creatures. We are motivationally complex. We do not want one thing. We want lots of things. We want what we value most, and we want what feels good right now. We want to grow, and we want to be comfortable. We want to change, and we want to be accepted exactly as we are. That is why the phrase "your mind has a mind of its own" is so useful. It gives language to something we all experience. You decide you are going to do one thing, and then you watch yourself do another. You know what would help, and still you avoid it. You care deeply about the future, and still the present moment feels more real. The work is not to shame that complexity out of yourself. The work is to understand it. Play the Tape All the Way Through One of my favorite parts of this conversation is Eric's explanation of a recovery practice called "playing the tape all the way through." When we want something in the moment, our mind often shows us only the first scene. The first scene is relief. The first scene is escape. The first scene is pleasure, comfort, avoidance, or release. In Eric's addiction, that first scene was all the reasons getting high would feel amazing. But recovery taught him not to stop there. He had to keep the tape running. Then what? The shame comes back. The fear comes back. The despair comes back. The consequences come back. The craving comes back, often stronger than before. This is such a powerful tool because it makes the future less abstract. Before you avoid the work, play the tape through. Before you send the angry email, play the tape through. Before you break the promise to yourself, play the tape through. Not to punish yourself. To see clearly. Structure Matters, But It Is Not the Whole Story Eric makes an important distinction in this episode between the external architecture of change and the internal moments of choice. A lot of personal growth advice focuses on structure. Set the goal. Build the system. Make the habit obvious. Make the habit easy. Design the environment. Remove friction. Put the right reminders in place. That matters. But structure is not the whole story. Because even when you know exactly what to do, and even when you have made it as easy as possible, the moment still comes. You and the choice. Do you write? Do you walk? Do you call? Do you tell the truth? Do you choose what you want most over what you want now? When we do not make the choice we wanted to make, Eric says there is usually something happening inside us. A feeling. A thought pattern. A story. A fear. A form of self-doubt we have not learned how to work with yet. That is why real change needs both. The structure and the story. Try It Smaller Eric says something in this episode that every ambitious person should sit with: Try it smaller. That does not mean the goal does not matter. It means the path has to be walkable. When a change plan is not working, many of us assume we need more discipline. More pressure. More intensity. More accountability. But often, the better move is to make the action smaller. If you cannot write for two hours, write for ten minutes. If you cannot meditate for 30 minutes, sit for three breaths. If you cannot change your whole health routine, put on your shoes and walk around the block. If you cannot face the entire project, open the document. Small does not mean meaningless. Small means repeatable. And repeatable is where momentum comes from. Change and Acceptance Are Not Opposites Another major theme in this episode is the tension between growth and acceptance. One of the best parts of us wants to change. We want to grow, improve, heal, create, recover, repair, and build better lives. And yet, so many wisdom traditions point us to

    Eric Zimmer: How A Little Becomes A Lot

  8. Jun 3

    Austin Kleon: Don't Call It Art

    Hey friends, Chase here Austin Kleon is back on the show, and this conversation is exactly the kind of reminder every creative person needs. You probably know Austin from Steal Like an Artist, Show Your Work!, and Keep Going, the books that have helped millions of people rethink creativity, sharing, influence, originality, and what it actually means to make things in public. But Austin's new book, Don't Call It Art: 10 Ways to Create Like a Kid Again, goes somewhere even more fundamental. It asks a question that feels especially urgent for creators, entrepreneurs, artists, writers, photographers, parents, and anyone trying to make meaningful work in a world that wants to turn everything into content: What if the way back to your best creative work is not becoming more serious, but becoming more playful? That question matters because most of us have made creativity too heavy. We have wrapped it in identity, pressure, productivity, platforms, metrics, perfectionism, and the fear of being judged. We get stuck asking whether we are real artists, serious writers, successful creators, or legitimate professionals. We worry about the noun before we do the verb. Austin's message is simpler, deeper, and more freeing: "Don't call it art. Don't worry about being an artist. Forget the nouns. Do the verbs. Just make stuff." That idea is the center of this episode. We talk about what kids can teach us about creativity, why play is not frivolous, how to build the conditions for your best work, why attention is your most valuable resource, and why some of the most important ideas in your life might come from goofing off. This conversation is about loosening the grip. It is about getting back to the part of you that makes before it judges, explores before it explains, and follows the energy before it knows exactly where the work is going. Why This Conversation Matters Right Now We are living in a strange moment for creative people. On one hand, there has never been more opportunity. An individual with a laptop, a camera, a newsletter, a sketchbook, a phone, a point of view, or a weird little idea can reach people directly. That is extraordinary. But it also comes with a cost. The pressure to turn every interest into a brand, every hobby into content, every project into a product, and every creative impulse into a strategy has never been stronger. We are constantly being asked to define ourselves: What do you do? What is your niche? What is your platform? What are you building? How are you monetizing it? What is the plan? Those questions can be useful at the right time. But when they show up too early, they can suffocate the very thing they are trying to organize. Austin's work reminds us that creativity begins before identity. Before "artist." Before "writer." Before "photographer." Before "entrepreneur." Before "content creator." Before the nouns, there are verbs. Drawing. Writing. Walking. Noticing. Building. Playing. Collecting. Tinkering. Making. Sharing. Kids understand this instinctively. They do not sit down and ask whether what they are making fits the market. They do not wonder whether they are allowed to call themselves artists. They do not freeze because the thing in front of them might not be good enough. They simply begin. And in that beginning, there is a kind of wisdom most adults have forgotten. What We Explore in This Episode Why kids can be some of the best creativity teachers because they make before they judge, label, or perform. How to reconnect with the feeling you wanted as a kid, not necessarily the exact childhood you had. Why play is not the opposite of serious work, but a form of creative research and development. How to create the conditions for creativity through time, space, materials, and permission. Why tools should feel more like toys if you want to stay curious and experimental. How phones fracture attention and why protecting the edges of your day can change the texture of your life. Why hobbies matter and how bikes, music, golf, drawing, and other forms of play can return us to ourselves. Why "don't call it art" can be liberating for anyone who feels trapped by labels or legitimacy. How to use jealousy, disgust, and frustration as creative information instead of letting them turn into bitterness. Why people pay attention when someone truly believes in what they are doing. The Core Idea: Forget the Nouns. Do the Verbs. The fastest way to get unstuck is often to stop asking what you are and start paying attention to what you do. That sounds simple, but it is one of the biggest traps in creative work. We get obsessed with identity. Am I an artist? Am I a real writer? Am I a serious photographer? Am I a professional? Am I successful enough to call myself this thing? Am I allowed? That kind of thinking can freeze you before you even start. Kids do not have that problem. They are not trying to become "artists." They are drawing. They are building. They are making noise. They are inventing stories. They are throwing materials around and seeing what happens. Austin's point is not that craft does not matter. It is not that ambition does not matter. It is not that we should abandon discipline. It is that the living center of creativity is action. The verb comes first. Make the thing. Move the pencil. Open the notebook. Pick up the guitar. Ride the bike. Take the walk. Make the zine. Shoot the photo. Write the sentence. Start the weird little project that begins with, "Wouldn't it be funny if…" That is where the energy is. Play Is Creative R&D One of the big tensions in this conversation is the voice many of us carry around that says play is not practical. That voice says: You have responsibilities. You need to make money. You need to be serious. You need to have a plan. You need to stop messing around. Austin's response is that play is not the opposite of serious work. Play is often what makes serious work possible. He talks about play as research and development. Any healthy company needs R&D. It needs space to explore, test, wander, fail, and discover things that cannot be found through pure efficiency. The same is true for a creative life. A lot of us start in explore mode. We are curious. We are trying things. We are learning. We are following our taste. We are discovering our voice. Then, if something works, we shift into exploit mode. We repeat the thing. We build a career around it. We systematize it. We professionalize it. We optimize it. That can be useful. But if you stay there forever, you eventually run out of juice. You need space to explore again. That is what play gives you. It returns you to the part of the process where you are not just producing, but discovering. And in creative work, discovery is everything. Create the Conditions, Then Get Out of the Way One of my favorite parts of this conversation is Austin's simple equation: Play = time + space + materials. That may sound almost too simple, but it is profound. When I look back at the most creative seasons of my life, the pattern is obvious. I had uninterrupted time. I had a place to go. I had the right materials around me. I had enough structure to begin and enough freedom to be surprised. That is what we often give kids when we want them to create. We give them a table, some paper, some markers, a chunk of time, and permission to make a mess. Then we grow up and deny ourselves the same basic conditions. We say we are blocked, stuck, confused, or uninspired, but often we have not created an environment where anything could actually emerge. No time. No space. No materials. No quiet. No room to tinker. The lesson is not complicated, but it is easy to forget: Set the conditions. Allow the work to happen. Get out of the way. That is not laziness. That is not indulgence. That is how the good stuff gets a chance to show up. The Best Ideas Often Come From Goofing Off I have said this before, and I mean it: so many of the best ideas in my life have come from goofing off. Not from trying to optimize. Not from grinding. Not from forcing. Not from staring at a blank screen and demanding genius. They came when I was tinkering. Playing. Walking. Talking with friends. Making something that had no obvious point. Trying something because it felt fun, strange, or impossible to explain. Austin and I talk about this because it is one of the hardest things for ambitious people to accept. We want the path to be linear. We want effort to equal outcome. We want the best ideas to come from the most serious hours. But creativity often does not work that way. The mind needs room. The body needs movement. The soul needs a little nonsense. Goofing off is not always avoidance. Sometimes it is how the deeper intelligence gets a chance to speak. Tools Should Be Toys Austin says something in this episode that every creator should sit with: Tools should be toys. That does not mean your tools are unimportant. It means the best tools invite you into a state of play. They make you want to touch them, try them, misuse them, combine them, push them, and see what happens. A sketchbook can be a toy. A camera can be a toy. A guitar pedal can be a toy. A bicycle can be a toy. A cheap notebook, a box of crayons, a microphone, a drum machine, a kitchen table, a phone in airplane mode, a pile of index cards — all of it can become part of the creative playground. The danger is when tools become only professional instruments. When every object in your creative life carries the pressure of output, performance, monetization, or proof, it becomes harder to begin. A toy invites curiosity. And curiosity is one of the most reliable doors back into making. Attention Is the Beginning of Everything Another major theme in this episode is attention. Austin shares a simple practice: start and end the day without your phone. Not as a moral performance. Not as some extreme digital detox. Just as a way to prot

    Austin Kleon: Don't Call It Art
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About

Chase Jarvis is a visionary photographer, artist and entrepreneur. Cited as one of the most influential photographers of the past decade, he is the founder & CEO of CreativeLive. In this show, Chase and some of the world's top creative entrepreneurs, artists, and celebrities share stories designed to help you gain actionable insights to recognize your passions and achieve your goals.

Information

  • Creator
    Chase Jarvis
  • Years Active
    2016 - 2026
  • Episodes
    751
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Chase Jarvis
  • Show Website
    The Chase Jarvis LIVE Show

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