In Demand: How to Grow Your SaaS and Stay In Demand

Asia Orangio & Kim Talarczyk
  • 5.0 (4)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

Growing a SaaS? Yeah, that's hard. Growing a SaaS without a clue what you're doing from a marketing and growth perspective? Pretty much impossible — especially if you want to break the $1M and $10M ARR marks. Kim Talarczyk sits down with Asia Orangio to extract and unpack all the strategic insights she holds in her brain from working with hundreds of SaaS companies and interviewing thousands of their customers. Together, they break down how to diagnose and troubleshoot growth challenges across every part of a B2B SaaS business. About your hosts: Asia Orangio is the CEO & Founder of DemandMaven. Asia helps founders of PLG SaaS companies troubleshoot their growth across GTM, acquisition, activation, retention, and expansion and get unstuck. In early 2018, Asia founded DemandMaven — a consulting firm dedicated to helping bootstrapped and funded SaaS companies build revenue-generating growth engines. Previously, Asia served in a number of marketing roles, but most notably as head of marketing at Hull where she helped the team 10.5x in growth, and #FlipMyFunnel / Terminus as demand generation manager. Asia also served on the board of Moz before its successful acquisition in 2021. Kim Talarczyk is the Client Services and Operations Manager at DemandMaven, where she ensures all client engagements are executed to the highest standard. With a strong background in client-facing roles and professional service firms, Kim has played a key role in scaling operations and delivering exceptional experiences for both B2C and B2B brands.

  1. MAR 24

    EP60: From growth tactics to storytelling: building a center of excellence in Marketing

    Growth leaders often focus on tactics, channels, and experiments. But at a certain point, the real unlock is not another marketing playbook. It is leadership. In this episode of In Demand, Asia reflects on her first year working as a fractional CMO and the shift she is experiencing in her role. After spending months identifying growth levers and investing in long term bets like SEO and brand, she realized the next phase is more about leadership and building a center of excellence.  Asia and Kim explore the role of storytelling, brand, and the difference between deciding positioning versus operationalizing it.  If you are a founder, marketing leader, or executive figuring out how to move from doing the work to developing the people doing the work, this episode will give you a thoughtful look at what that transition actually feels like. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Radical Candor by Kim Scott A child psychologist’s guide to working with difficult adults | Dr. Becky Kennedy on Lenny’s Podcast Chapters (00:01:00) - Asia reflects on her first year as a fractional CMO and learning the growth levers of the business.(00:09:00) - What it means to build a marketing “center of excellence.”(00:14:00) - Teaching teams how to recognize quality in messaging and content.(00:15:40) - The difference between defining positioning and then operationalizing it across the company.(00:21:00) - Why marketing, sales, and product all need to reinforce the same story.(00:28:00) - Why the brand is becoming more of a focus for Asia in the CMO role.(00:32:10) - Self-awareness, leadership growth, and knowing when to push or step back.(00:39:30) - Lessons from working in toxic environments and separating identity from work.

    49 min

  2. MAR 17

    EP59: When to use AI in your SaaS

    In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim unpack how they think about and using AI today, and what founders and operators should think about when using AI in their day-to-day work. They explore when AI meaningfully speeds up analysis and deliverables, why human interpretation still matters for strategy, and the common mistake of outsourcing thinking to an LLM too early. If you are experimenting with AI in product, marketing, or operations and trying to figure out where it actually adds value, this episode offers a grounded framework for thinking about it. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Ahrefs video: “I Outsourced Our Digital Marketing to AI”  Lenny Bot Delphi AI Granola Synthetic Users Chapters (00:02:30) - What Kim has been finding exciting with AI today and why understanding its strengths matters.(00:07:15) - Practical use cases: deliverable creation and analyzing large datasets.(00:12:00) - Why AI-assisted workflows outperform fully outsourced thinking and how LLMs can get things wrong.(00:18:30) - Why LLMs struggle with nuance, emotion, and deeper strategic interpretation of research interviews.(00:26:15) - How companies can build an internal brain by aggregating sales calls, interviews, and support data.(00:32:30) - Why AI raises the floor for many skills but still rewards real expertise.(00:40:30) - Wildest AI tools and experiments: LennyBot, synthetic users, and Granola.

    52 min

  3. MAR 10

    EP58: Why marketing isn't your best growth lever

    If you are past $1 million ARR and still treating marketing as your primary growth lever, you may be burning resources without realizing it. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down why marketing is not always your best growth lever, especially for PLG SaaS companies that have already crossed the early survival stage. Asia introduces the shift from “boiler room founder” to “captain’s deck CEO,” explains the seven growth levers inside a SaaS business, and walks through why over-investing in marketing often leads to diminishing returns. If you have ever felt like pouring more money into marketing should be working, but isn’t moving the needle the way you expect, this episode will help you diagnose what to look at instead. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven In Demand 36: Why is hiring for marketing so hard  Dr. Sherry Walling Chapters (00:00:30) - Why marketing is critical under $1 million ARR but often loses leverage after that threshold.(00:13:00) - The way the role of CEO changes as you go past $1 million ARR, and how strategy and a shift away from marketing might be key.(00:18:40) - Once you go past $1M, you can start looking beyond acquisition at the other growth levers: acquisition, activation, retention, monetization, expansion, operations, and people.(00:24:45) - How to identify which lever is actually on fire and deserves attention.(00:27:00) - Financial and personal indicators that it is time to step out of the boiler room, and the self-awareness challenges that come up in this stage.(00:39:00) - Why over-investing in marketing does not work once channels stabilize.(00:40:15) - The three structural limits of marketing: slow market movement, TAM/SAM/SOM constraints, and diminishing returns.(00:45:00) - Product is still the center of the universe in PLG SaaS, and every lever connects back to it.

    48 min

  4. MAR 3

    EP57: Why your SaaS product is losing value (and what to do about it)

    In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down what value decline is, how it silently erodes net revenue retention, and why many SaaS companies are unknowingly creating long-term churn.  They explore the forces that drive declining value, including market shifts, competitive moves, and self-imposed product constraints. If your NRR is stuck below 80 percent, or if growth feels harder than it should, this episode will help you diagnose whether value decline is the hidden culprit. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Continuous Discovery Habits by Teresa Torres In Demand episode pricing Chapters (00:00:30) - What value decline is and how it shows up in NRR and long-term retention.(00:04:00) - Market forces change the value your product or service creates.(00:06:30) - Signs that you're in value decline vs. value status quo.(00:09:20) - Mapping jobs to be done to uncover missed opportunities for value expansion.(00:16:10) - The three root causes of preventable value decline inside SaaS companies.(00:26:30) - Why good processes are key for avoiding value decline.(00:32:00) - Why customers will likely only tell you about quality of life improvements and bugs, but not real value generators.(00:38:00) - Sprint discovery versus continuous discovery and how to structure validation.

    50 min

  5. FEB 24

    EP56: The busy founder’s guide to activation

    Activation is the most overlooked growth lever in SaaS, especially for PLG-focused companies. While founders obsess over acquisition, pricing, and retention, they often overlook low-hanging fruit with activation.  In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down what activation actually is, why most teams misunderstand it, and how to improve it using a clear, repeatable process. Asia shares why pop-ups and walkthroughs are not a strategy, why survivor bias is distorting your view of product performance, and how as few as three to five UX interviews can unlock growth. If you have a free trial, self-serve motion, or product-led growth model, this episode walks through a practical framework to improve activation. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven https://www.userinterviews.com/ Respondent.io Amplitude Mixpanel Chapters (00:01:00) - Why activation is often an overlooked growth lever in PLG SaaS.(00:04:05) - What activation actually means and how it connects acquisition and retention.(00:11:00) - Why pop-ups, overlays, and onboarding walkthroughs aren't working as well anymore.(00:14:00) - What good trial-to-paid benchmarks look like and why most bootstrappers leave money on the table.(00:19:45) - The process of improving activation, starting with step one, UX interviews with qualified strangers.(00:28:05) - What to pay attention to when doing UX interviews.(00:30:55) - The three levers to improve UX: cognitive overload, uncertainty, and limited attention.(00:36:50) - What steps to take after making initial improvements.(00:42:00) - How to think about later-stage activation.(00:52:45) - Activation starting from your homepage.

    56 min

  6. FEB 17

    EP55: DemandMaven 2025 year in review (and what's next)

    Welcome back to In Demand! Since it's the the first episode of 2026, Asia and Kim reflect on the past year at DemandMaven, what shifted after a difficult 2024, and why 2025 felt more aligned, more balanced, and more intentional. They talk about letting go of pressure to scale, refining research processes, leaning into partnerships, and rethinking goals. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Makeswift Asia's interview on the User Testing podcast Chapters (00:03:00) - DemandMaven turns eight, and Asia dives into a year in review, starting with the wins.(00:06:20) - The shift from chasing revenue highs to building a balanced and aligned business.(00:07:45) - Streamlining DemandMaven's research processes.(00:15:30) - Figuring out a sustainable content engine and centering marketing around the podcast.(00:21:00) - Speaking engagements, Spark Together, and rediscovering the joy of conferences.(00:26:45) - Expanding into pricing, activation, hiring, and more flexible “full stack growth” work.(00:31:00) - Challenges from 2025, starting with consistent new client acquisition.(00:38:00) - Why it can be a struggle to get case studies, even after driving great results.(00:42:00) - Letting go of rigid goal setting and redefining success.(00:45:00) - Looking ahead to 2026: working with design-forward companies, product work, and experimentation.(01:01:00) - Personal plans in travel and language learning for 2026

    1h 12m

  7. 12/09/2025

    EP54: Why you can't copy competitors

    Copying competitors can feel like the fastest path to growth, but more often than not, it backfires. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim break down why copying other SaaS companies rarely works and what to do instead. They explore the difference between copying and inspiration, why context determines whether a strategy will succeed, and how to translate what you admire in another business into something that actually works for your own stage, market, and buyer. If you’ve ever looked at a competitor or admired brand and thought “we should do that too,” this episode will help you think more strategically. Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Switchyards Atlanta Chapters (00:01:00) - Copying competitors (and why it's not always a good idea).(00:02:30) - Why copying website design, branding elements, or campaign strategy is usually harmless.(00:07:35) - How to take inspiration vs. just copying.(00:10:00) - Where copying almost always fails: copying big strategic bets without context.(00:17:00) - Case study: Why so many SaaS founders tried to copy Intercom and why it didn't work for most people.(00:24:20) - What's the best way to take inspiration, keep track of it, but translate it into your own context.(00:26:00) - Another example: Why copying Notion’s community and ambassador model failed for a founder.(00:29:30) - The marathon analogy and how to adapt inspiration to your own stage of growth.

    34 min

  8. 12/02/2025

    EP53: Why research projects fail

    Research is one of the most valuable tools for unlocking growth in SaaS, but too often, research projects fail to create impact. In this episode of In Demand, Asia and Kim explore why research projects fail from the consultant’s side and the client’s side. They unpack the most common failure modes, like treating research as an end in itself, failing to get buy-in, or conducting great studies that never translate into action.  If you’ve ever wondered how to make your customer research matter, or how to keep it from collecting dust, this episode will help you turn insights into progress.Got a question you’d like Asia to unpack on the podcast? Record a voicemail here. Links:  DemandMaven Spark Together Conference AnswerThePublic Bob Moesta Chapters (00:02:40) - The difference between delivery failure and impact failure.(00:04:00) - Clients do not hire research for the sake of research, they hire it to achieve outcomes.(00:10:00) - Why project success often depends on who hires you within a company and their level of influence.(00:18:20) - The consultant’s job as educator and guide, not just researcher.(00:22:40) - How to get buy-in for research work and why buy-in must extend beyond your main project contact.(00:26:10) - How to involve clients in interviews without biasing results.(00:32:45) - Why watching recordings isn't enough and how live debriefs after calls are where the magic happens.(00:39:30) - The client perspective and building internal research and insights habits.(00:49:00) - Known knowns, known unknowns, unknown unknowns and why good research reveals both.(00:53:00) - Thinking like a journalist to gather insights without resources.(00:55:00) - When should you do research? Anytime you face a high-impact decision.

    57 min
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About

Growing a SaaS? Yeah, that's hard. Growing a SaaS without a clue what you're doing from a marketing and growth perspective? Pretty much impossible — especially if you want to break the $1M and $10M ARR marks. Kim Talarczyk sits down with Asia Orangio to extract and unpack all the strategic insights she holds in her brain from working with hundreds of SaaS companies and interviewing thousands of their customers. Together, they break down how to diagnose and troubleshoot growth challenges across every part of a B2B SaaS business. About your hosts: Asia Orangio is the CEO & Founder of DemandMaven. Asia helps founders of PLG SaaS companies troubleshoot their growth across GTM, acquisition, activation, retention, and expansion and get unstuck. In early 2018, Asia founded DemandMaven — a consulting firm dedicated to helping bootstrapped and funded SaaS companies build revenue-generating growth engines. Previously, Asia served in a number of marketing roles, but most notably as head of marketing at Hull where she helped the team 10.5x in growth, and #FlipMyFunnel / Terminus as demand generation manager. Asia also served on the board of Moz before its successful acquisition in 2021. Kim Talarczyk is the Client Services and Operations Manager at DemandMaven, where she ensures all client engagements are executed to the highest standard. With a strong background in client-facing roles and professional service firms, Kim has played a key role in scaling operations and delivering exceptional experiences for both B2C and B2B brands.

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