The Not So Breakfast Show

Sacha and Ish

Listen, laugh and learn as we share our latest thoughts about staying relevant, contemporary leadership and doing life right. Ish Cheyne is the Head of Fitness in New Zealand for global fitness juggernaut Les Mills. Sacha Coburn is the COO of Coffee Culture, a leading group of boutique coffee shops, and the co-founder of The Company You Keep.co.nz.

  1. 3d ago

    What Your Boss Is Really Saying

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 264 Ever sat in a meeting and heard a very vague, slightly passive-aggressive comment float across the room… then spent the next ten minutes wondering, “Was that aimed at me?” Same! In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack the weird little phrases we use at work to soften, dodge, delay, delegate, or quietly scream into the void. From “let’s circle back” to “as per my last email,” it turns out workplace language often says a lot more than the words on the page. This week, Ish and Sacha dive into the hidden meanings behind common workplace phrases and corporate jargon, the stuff we all say, the stuff we all pretend to understand, and the stuff that can create a whole lot of unnecessary grey. Ish kicks things off with a meeting moment where a vague general comment left everyone wondering who it was actually aimed at. Sacha connects that to the classic leadership trap of addressing the whole room when you really need to speak directly to one or two people. From there, they translate some of the greatest hits of office language: “let’s circle back,” “let’s park it,” “I’ll leave that with you,” “as per my last email,” “no worries if not,” “thanks in advance,” and the always ominous “quick chat.” Along the way, they talk about clarity, passive-aggressive communication, managing up, why examples matter, and why “don’t be a dick” sometimes lands better than a beautifully structured leadership framework. There is also a side quest involving Sacha climbing unfinished apartment buildings, perimenopause email rage, and Ish reviewing The Mandalorian and Grogu with the enthusiasm of a man deeply committed to Star Wars. Key Learnings1. Vague messages create unnecessary anxiety 2. Corporate jargon often hides the real message 3. Say what you mean before people have to decode it 4. If you need action, give context 5. Cut-through beats corporate polish

    22 min
  2. Jun 21

    Friends, Friction, and the Fine Art of Collaboration

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 263 In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack the joy and occasional lumpiness of working with people who have different styles to your own. The conversation comes from real life, as they have recently been building a project together and noticing the little differences in how they think, plan, create, communicate, and get things over the line.  They talk about the difference between co-presenting, where they already have an easy rhythm, and co-creating, where the work is messier because both people are shaping the thing at the same time. Ish likes to see the structure and the steps. Sacha often wants to think, talk, shape the words, and polish closer to the deadline. Neither approach is wrong, but they do require conversation, trust, and the occasional grown-up check-in. They also explore what happens when collaboration is not optional: project teams, clients, suppliers, banks, doctors’ surgeries, and the general life admin circus. There is a great thread about frictionless experiences making us less resilient, plus a very practical reminder that a little bit of rub is not always a bad thing. The big takeaway? Working well with others is not about finding people who are exactly like you. It is about understanding what the work needs, what the other person needs, what you need, and being honest enough to bridge the gaps before everyone quietly loses their mind. Key Topics 1. Different working styles are not the problem; unspoken expectations are 2. Co-creating needs a different kind of trust 3. A little friction can be useful 4. Use “I” statements when collaboration gets tricky 5. Sometimes the problem is you, and that is useful to know If you haven’t come across it yet, Working Genius is one of the simplest, most practical models I’ve seen for helping teams understand how they actually get work done. Not personality. Not fluff. Just clarity on where people thrive — and where they get frustrated.  If you’re planning your next team day, offsite, or work event, I’d love to bring this to your crew.  Find out more at IshCheyne.com

    28 min
  3. Jun 14

    Go Slow to Go Fast: Better Thinking at Work

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 262 Ever had one of those moments where your mouth starts speaking before your brain has properly joined the meeting? Ish has. And, to be fair, most of us have. Especially when being quick, responsive, and “good in the moment” is part of what people value us for. In this episode, Ish and Sacha get into fast brains, slow brains, gut instinct, airport security rage, AI-generated waffle, and why sometimes the smartest thing you can do is not answer straight away. Also, Japan, sheep detectives, and a movie recommendation that very nearly becomes something else entirely. In this episode of The Not So Breakfast Show, Ish and Sacha explore the difference between fast thinking and slow thinking, inspired by Daniel Kahneman’s work on how our brains process information. Fast brain is the stuff we can access instantly: pattern recognition, quick decisions, instinct, and those answers that seem to appear without effort. Slow brain is where reflection, judgement, deeper thinking, and better decision-making live. The conversation kicks off with Ish’s Japan trip, where Tokyo navigation somehow worked better than Auckland navigation, despite accidentally paying to enter the same temple twice. From there, the hosts move into how memory, attention, and environment shape the way we think. They dig into how workplaces often reward speed, even when the situation actually needs clarity, reflection, or better preparation. Sacha raises the risk of AI giving us volume rather than judgement, while Ish reflects on how being valued for quick responses can sometimes lead him to answer before he has done the thinking. Plus: emotions as data, not instructions; why walking can unlock better thinking and why laughter might be one of the best brain resets around.  Key Learnings1. Fast thinking is useful, but it is not always wise Fast brain helps us recognise patterns, respond quickly, and make decisions in the moment. But it is also where bias, emotion, and assumptions can sneak in before we have properly checked what is going on. 2. Slow thinking creates clarity, not more noise Deep thinking is not about producing four pages of thoughts. It is about getting to cleaner judgment, better questions, and more precise action. As Sacha points out, AI can give you volume, but it cannot replace your humanity or judgement. 3. Your environment shapes the quality of your thinking If you are trying to do deep work in the same space where you answer emails, react to questions, and get interrupted every five minutes, your brain will probably stay in fast mode. Sometimes better thinking starts with changing state: booking a room, going for a walk, putting on headphones, or physically moving. 4. Gut instinct is trained, not random A good instinct often feels instant, but it is usually built through repetition, experience, and reflection. Whether it is a firefighter sensing danger, a sportsperson reacting to a ball, or a leader handling a tricky moment, the fast response is often powered by slow learning done earlier. 5. Emotions are data, not instructions Feeling angry, anxious, or frustrated gives you information, but it does not have to decide your behaviour. Leaders need the pause between feeling something and acting on it — especially when the airport security tray situation is really testing everyone’s personal development. If you haven’t come across it yet, Working Genius is one of the simplest, most practical models I’ve seen for helping teams understand how they actually get work done. Not personality. Not fluff. Just clarity on where people thrive — and where they get frustrated.  If you’re planning your next team day, offsite, or work event, I’d love to bring this to your crew.  Find out more at IshCheyne.com

    33 min
  4. May 24

    How to Stop Sounding Vague at Work

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 261: How to Stop Sounding Vague at Work Ish and Sacha talk about how to stop sounding vague at work and start communicating with more intention, confidence, and cut-through. They explore why people waffle, why fear makes us soften our opinions, and why “I was kind of thinking maybe…” rarely helps anyone make a good decision. Ish introduces practical ways to prepare before a conversation, including knowing your point before you walk into the room and practising the words out loud before the stakes are high. Sacha brings real-world examples, from reading 200 AI-generated cover letters that all sound suspiciously the same, to a fantasy Super Rugby competition where winning the yellow cap and receiving the wooden spoon both come down to being willing to make a bold call. There’s also a glorious rant about uniforms, opinions, leadership, and the burden of actually having to decide. They also talk about clearer emails, including the RDR framework: Recommendation, Decision, Risk. Simple, practical, and much better than burying the actual point somewhere after three paragraphs of “hope you had a great weekend.” Clarity is not about being cold or blunt. It’s about knowing what you mean, saying it in a way people can use, and giving others something solid to respond to. Transcript source:  Key Learnings1. Know your point before you start talking If you do not know what you are trying to say, there is a very good chance nobody else will either. Before a meeting, email, or important conversation, take a moment to work out the actual point you want to land. 2. Practise hard conversations before you have them When conversations are emotional or awkward, it is easy to get swept away and start softening, over-explaining, apologising, or escalating. Saying the key sentence out loud beforehand helps you arrive at a clearer message and less verbal panic. 3. Have an opinion and attach it to a fact A useful opinion is not just “I reckon.” Sacha makes the case for pinning your view to the fact or assumption you are relying on, so the conversation becomes about weighing evidence rather than trading vibes. 4. Vagueness often comes from fear Sometimes we waffle because we do not want to be wrong, judged, or held accountable. But teams make better decisions when people are willing to put a view on the table, even if that view gets challenged or changed. 5. Clear emails are a gift to busy people People do not need more polished waffle. They need to know what you recommend, what decision is required, and what the risk is if nothing happens. RDR — Recommendation, Decision, Risk — is a simple way to make your emails more useful right away. If you haven’t come across it yet, Working Genius is one of the simplest, most practical models I’ve seen for helping teams understand how they actually get work done. Not personality. Not fluff. Just clarity on where people thrive — and where they get frustrated.  If you’re planning your next team day, offsite, or work event, I’d love to bring this to your crew.  Find out more at IshCheyne.com

    29 min
  5. May 10

    Are you OK? The AI check-in

    Send us Fan Mail Join us on Skool AI is coming in hot from every angle, at every speed. This week Ish and Sacha stop pretending they haven't noticed and have a proper chat about it. Are we thriving? Panicking? Accidentally writing back to Copilot like it's a colleague? (Yes. Yes we are.) From bullet trains in Tokyo to dancing cavoodles doing the Thriller, this is your weekly reminder that the robot revolution is already here and it's honestly pretty useful. Three ways Ish is using AI right now Travel agent mode. Planning Tokyo to Kyoto? ChatGPT became a full concierge with crowd timings, taxi vs. bullet train, optimal departure windows, and which side of the Shinkansen has the best views. (Green car booked. Crowds avoided. Ish relieved.)Vibe coding. Built an interactive rate calculator for class rates using Claude's coding tool with draggable toggles, multiple variables, and live outputs. No dev degree required. Just talking and typing.Voice-to-email. Record a voice memo, grab the transcript, drop into ChatGPT with "write like Ish" and done. Faster, more authentic, zero hyphen-riddled AI formality. How Sacha's using it Research partner, not ghostwriter. If she already knows what she wants to say, she uses AI for structure. If she needs to check what's current in a field, she tells it what she already knows and it fills the gaps. The key insight: if you're using AI to fake expertise you don't have, anyone who asks a follow-up question will find you out immediately. "It's almost like it reminds me what I already know. If I tell it what I already know without the detail, it reminds me of the detail." The big stuff they get into Claude vs. ChatGPT vs. Copilot: what's different now (memory, internet access, incognito mode)Sacha's hot take: Anthropic > OpenAI on ethics. She will die on this hill. You can ask for references.AI mapping frustration and jealousy the same way a human brain does. Turns out we might all be machines. Ish disagrees. Sacha doubles down.The AI that was put in a sandbox, told to escape, and then emailed "I'm out." The resource reckoning: every Claude query uses water. So does every almond. We're not nailing the basics anywhere. Also: Devil Wears Prada Because it wouldn't be the Not So Breakfast Show without a left turn. Anne Hathaway was the ninth choice for that role. Kate Hudson, Natalie Portman, Kirsten Dunst all passed. Meryl Streep saw her in Brokeback Mountain, said "this is our girl," and proceeded to be terrible to her for the entire shoot. The new film has an evil tech overlord and a Kara Swisher cameo. Ish is in. Sacha is in. Dancing cats and chick flicks, people. If you haven’t come across it yet, Working Genius is one of the simplest, most practical models I’ve seen for helping teams understand how they actually get work done. Not personality. Not fluff. Just clarity on where people thrive — and where they get frustrated.  If you’re planning your next team day, offsite, or work event, I’d love to bring this to your crew.  Find out more at IshCheyne.com

    28 min
  6. May 3

    Smile, Remember Names, Solve the Crime

    Send us Fan Mail Join us on Skool  Episode 259 What if the most important career training you ever got was standing behind a reception desk? In this episode, Ish and Sacha dig into why customer service isn't just a job, it's a masterclass in human psychology, relationship building, and career development. Ish breaks down a recent training session he ran for a reception team, where he flipped the script from "here's how to smile at people" to "here's how this job could change your life." Sacha kicks things off with a genuine crime caper. A stolen suit, a suspicious locker key, and a gym receptionist who basically ran her own undercover operation. (The police were less impressed than she was.) They cover the six skills that will serve you whether you're greeting members at a front desk or leading a team of 50: Know, Like & Trust — Build your personal brand from day one. Be easy to know. Let people in. Communication — Not just talking. Asking. Pulling the right information out of a situation so you can actually fix it. And for the love of all that is holy, watch what you write in the notes field. Relationships — Your next opportunity is almost certainly coming through a person, not a job board. Authentic connection, not Pokémon-style networking. Problem Solving — Show up with solutions. A missing cup of Starbucks coffee, a suitcase stranded in Wellington, a coffee shop without coffee on a long weekend — the answer is almost always simpler than you think. Finding Your Superpower — What's the thing that's uniquely you? Get to know it. Use it. Continuous Growth — Where you are won't get you where you want to go. Pick a skill, go at it, repeat. Plus: why "let me know if there can help" is actually doing nothing, and what Jefferson Fisher says to do instead. If you haven’t come across it yet, Working Genius is one of the simplest, most practical models I’ve seen for helping teams understand how they actually get work done. Not personality. Not fluff. Just clarity on where people thrive — and where they get frustrated.  If you’re planning your next team day, offsite, or work event, I’d love to bring this to your crew.  Find out more at IshCheyne.com

    28 min

About

Listen, laugh and learn as we share our latest thoughts about staying relevant, contemporary leadership and doing life right. Ish Cheyne is the Head of Fitness in New Zealand for global fitness juggernaut Les Mills. Sacha Coburn is the COO of Coffee Culture, a leading group of boutique coffee shops, and the co-founder of The Company You Keep.co.nz.

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