The Not So Breakfast Show

Sacha and Ish
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Listen, laugh and learn as we share our latest thoughts about staying relevant, contemporary leadership and doing life right. Ish Cheyne is the Head of Fitness in New Zealand for global fitness juggernaut Les Mills. Sacha Coburn is the COO of Coffee Culture, a leading group of boutique coffee shops, and the co-founder of The Company You Keep.co.nz.

  1. 18h ago

    What Ted Lasso Gets Right About Leadership

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 274 What do Ted Lasso, Korean skincare, a runaway car and being unexpectedly told you’re “foxy” have in common? More than you’d think, apparently. After Ish narrowly avoids watching his car disappear backwards down his death-trap driveway, he and Sacha get into why Ted Lasso has become such a compelling picture of leadership. Not because Ted has everything sorted, but because he manages to combine optimism, vulnerability and genuine care with standards, honesty and a willingness to have the hard conversations. Turns out kindness works considerably better when it has a backbone. This episode is a love letter to Ted Lasso, but less about football and more about the kind of leadership the character represents. Ish and Sacha unpack why Ted’s combination of kindness, optimism, vulnerability and belief in people feels so refreshing. He sees the person before the performance, takes time to understand what makes people tick and, rather than writing people off when they behave badly, keeps inviting them back towards the best version of themselves. They also explore why compassionate leadership can look different depending on who is doing it, how Ted challenges some traditional ideas of masculinity, and why being vulnerable doesn’t mean turning your team into your therapists. Along the way, there’s an All Blacks example of beautifully simple inclusive leadership, Sacha discovers perhaps the greatest unsolicited compliment ever received by text, and Ish shares what happens when someone keeps going after repeated career knockbacks rather than throwing their toys out of the pram. Key Learnings 1. See the person before the performance 2. Call people in, not just out 3. Kindness needs a backbone 4. Optimism is something you can practise 5. You don't have to be a finished product to lead well

  2. Sep 6

    Do You Really Need to Find Your Why?

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 273 Do you know your why? Your purpose? The deep, meaningful reason you leap out of bed every morning ready to change the world? No? Excellent. You may be absolutely fine. This week, Sacha takes aim at Simon Sinek and the whole “find your why” idea or at least the pressure that comes with it. Do we all really have one big purpose we’re supposed to uncover, or is that just another thing to feel behind on?  Ish tries to work out whether purpose is something we discover, something we choose, or just a nice story we tell ourselves after accidentally ending up in the same industry for 30 years. Somehow this leads to Dolly Parton, coal, fake boobs, bad coffee and Ish going full Liam Neeson on a couple talking through a movie. Ish and Sacha unpack why purpose can be useful, where it starts to get a bit wobbly, and why sometimes it’s perfectly okay to just be good at what you do, enjoy parts of it, and build meaning as you go.  Key Learnings 1. You don’t have to “find” your purpose Purpose doesn’t necessarily arrive as one giant revelation about what you were put on Earth to do. It may be something you gradually build by noticing what you're good at, what gives you energy, where you feel most yourself and how those things can be useful to other people. 2. Purpose and talent aren’t the same thing You can be extremely good at something without it being your life's calling. Ish reflects on the idea that the abilities that have helped him succeed in the fitness industry could probably have been applied in plenty of other industries too. 3. A good purpose doesn’t rescue a bad product You can care deeply about making the world's most meaningful cup of coffee, but if the coffee tastes terrible, people probably aren't coming back. Purpose can strengthen a good organisation, but it doesn't replace quality, competence or commercial reality. Sometimes making a genuinely useful product, treating people well and running a sustainable business is meaningful enough. 4. Your company’s purpose doesn’t automatically have to become yours Working somewhere whose values you believe in can absolutely make work more satisfying. But that doesn't mean employees need to absorb the company's mission as their personal reason for existing. 5. Purpose can change Family, work, experiences and major life events can all change what feels meaningful to us. That doesn't mean your old purpose was wrong or your new one is somehow less authentic. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

  3. Aug 30

    Why Smart People Still Make Dumb Decisions

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 272 What happens when being “the smart one” becomes part of your identity? Apparently, you get very good at constructing brilliant arguments for ideas that may still be completely terrible. This week, Ish and Sacha get into the uncomfortable gap between intelligence and good judgement. There’s ego, groupthink, sunk costs, Harvard-sized imposter syndrome, a $200 million floating movie set, and the important reminder that sometimes the cleverest thing you can say in a meeting is: “Hang on… are we sure?” They explore what happens when intelligence gets tangled up with ego and identity, and winning the argument becomes more important than making the right call. Sacha admits to occasionally wanting to make the other person’s argument for them properly before rebutting it, which is both impressively efficient and perhaps not the strongest foundation for collaborative decision-making. The conversation moves through book smarts versus broader intelligence, the danger of mistaking confidence and eloquence for correctness, and why genuinely smart people tend to know the limits of what they know. They also look at groupthink: what happens when a room full of capable people all agree, nobody challenges the direction, and everyone confidently marches towards the same cliff. Then they ask one very useful question for projects, strategies and decisions that have taken on a life of their own: If we hadn’t already started this, would we choose to start it today? Key Learnings1. Don’t confuse winning the argument with making the right decision Being articulate, persuasive or quick-thinking can help you defend almost any position. That doesn’t make the position correct. 2. The smartest people stay open to being wrong Real intelligence includes knowing where your knowledge ends. 3. A room full of smart people can still walk off a cliff Agreement isn’t proof that a decision is good. 4. Don’t let someone else’s intelligence silence your own contribution Sacha’s Harvard experience is a great reminder that being surrounded by impressive people can make us start discounting what we bring. 5. Previous investment is not a reason to keep making the same decision The further we get into a project, the easier it becomes to build a convincing story about why we simply have to keep going. The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

  4. Aug 23

    Critical Ignoring: The Skill Your Attention Is Begging For

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 271Ish arrives with a voice that sounds like it’s been dragged through gravel, but fortunately it’s not illness; it’s karaoke. Ten songs, a bit of Blues Brothers, and a final assault on Sweet Child O’ Mine will apparently do that to a man. Once the vocal cords have been accounted for, we get into something most of us are probably terrible at: critical ignoring. Because between Slack, Teams, email, Instagram, notifications, hot takes, random rabbit holes and apparently an urgent need to learn everything about Mesopotamia, the problem isn’t just knowing how to think. It’s deciding what deserves your thinking in the first place. This episode is all about attention: where it goes, what steals it, and why being able to deliberately ignore things might be one of the most useful skills we can build. They explore the difference between critical thinking and critical ignoring, why businesses can’t be brilliant at everything, and how your diary and internet history may reveal your real priorities more accurately than what you say your priorities are. There’s also a live inspection of Ish and Sacha’s Instagram algorithms, Sacha’s inability to finish researching skincare, the idea that your attention may need its own nightclub bouncer, and a mildly terrifying detour into AI agents that are apparently prepared to throw Susan out of spin class to achieve their goals. Underneath all the chaos is a useful question: what are you allowing into your brain, and is it helping you do the things that actually matter? Key Learnings1. Decide what deserves your attention before you start thinking about it 2. Protect your best working time 3. Your actual priorities leave evidence 4. Make distraction slightly harder 5. Critical ignoring is not the same as avoidance “Critical thinking matters. But first you have to decide what deserves your thinking.” The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

  5. Aug 16

    Congratulations, You’re the Manager. Sorry About Your Life.

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 270 This episode is about one of the most common promotion traps at work: taking the person who is brilliant at doing the job and assuming they’ll naturally be brilliant at leading everyone else who does it. Ish and Sacha unpack why technical excellence and leadership ability are two very different things, why promotion has become the default way organisations reward high performers, and what can go wrong when somebody moves from doing the work to enabling other people to do great work. They talk about paying your stars more instead of automatically giving them people to manage, testing internal candidates against the external market, looking for openness to feedback, and dealing with the awkward truth that the skill or behaviour you ignore now will probably become a much bigger problem later. There’s also a lost Australian gig and a moment of silence for money never earned. Sacha discovering that relief can tell you quite a lot about the work you actually want to do, and a late recommendation for a TV series involving manipulated CCTV footage. Naturally. Key Learnings1. Being brilliant at the work doesn’t automatically make you brilliant at leading it 2. Promotion shouldn’t be the only way to reward great people 3. Leadership means shifting from “me” to “you” 4. Look for people who are hungry for feedback 5. Don’t hire internally just because it’s convenient

  6. Aug 9

    Are You in a Work Situationship?

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 269 Some people stay in a job for years. That doesn’t necessarily mean they’re committed. They might just be comfortable, financially trapped, quietly checking Seek at lunchtime, or waiting for someone else to make the first move. In this episode, Ish and Sacha ask whether you and your employer are actually committed to each other, or whether you’re in a full-blown work situationship. You’re showing up, the bills are being paid, everyone’s being pleasant… but nobody wants to talk about the future. They look at why staying in a role isn’t the same as being committed, how strong productivity can disguise emotional distance, and the mixed signals leaders send when they talk about ownership, development, and value without backing those words up. There’s also a practical discussion about what to do when you know a job is no longer your end game. The answer isn’t to silently check out, damage your reputation, or burn every bridge on the way out. It’s to get deliberate: build your skills, update your CV, actively look for the next opportunity, and have an honest conversation where it’s appropriate. Key Learnings1. Staying isn’t the same as committing Leaders need to look beyond attendance and output to understand whether people still care, feel connected, and see a future with the team. 2. Productivity can hide emotional distance Doing the job well and believing in the job are two different things. 3. Commitment needs evidence Telling someone they’re valued means very little if there’s no development. 4. Mixed signals destroy trust When words and behaviour don’t match, people stop believing the words. 5. Leave deliberately, not destructively Until you leave, protect your reputation. Quietly giving up may feel satisfying in the moment, but poor communication and burned bridges can follow you into your next opportunity.

  7. Aug 2

    Five Things Every Leader Should Know About Their Team

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 268 In this episode, Ish and Sacha explore five things every leader should know about the people in their team, beyond names, roles and coffee orders. They unpack why motivation is never one-size-fits-all, how leaders can unknowingly drain people, and why “just tell me straight” often means “tell me promptly, but please don’t remove all traces of kindness.” The conversation also covers career aspirations, different forms of support, the importance of asking rather than assuming, and how small leadership habits can either set people up to succeed or quietly make their working lives harder. Along the way, Sacha shares the humbling attendance figures from her lunch-and-learn sessions, Ish reflects on helping a team member consider another role, and they both confess to being enthusiastic workplace interrupters. Key Learnings1. Don’t assume people are motivated the way you are 2. Learn what drains people. Including the things you do 3. Feedback needs the right timing, context and delivery 4. Know what your people are trying to become 5. Ask what support looks like instead of guessing

  8. Jul 26

    Excellence Should Create Growth, Not Entrapment

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 267 Being good at your job is meant to be a good thing. Until everyone notices, starts sending everything your way, and your reward for being reliable is a to-do list that now requires its own project manager. In this episode, Ish and Sacha unpack the curse of being the capable one — why high performers get overloaded, why leaders keep defaulting to the same safe pair of hands, and how something that initially feels like recognition can quickly turn into frustration, burnout, or career stagnation. This episode explores what happens when capable people become the default solution to every problem. Sacha reflects on hiring new people at Coffee Culture and realising just how much work had quietly accumulated around a few highly capable team members. That leads into a wider conversation about the difference between being recognised and being properly rewarded, and why praise can sometimes be little more than a cheerful introduction to another task. They look at the issue from both sides. For capable people, the challenge is learning to set boundaries, manage upwards, clarify priorities and make sure extra work is actually leading somewhere. For leaders, it is about noticing when you are over-relying on one or two people instead of developing capability across the whole team. Along the way, they cover realistic training simulations involving breakfast at night, why senior leaders make staff suddenly forget how to make coffee, the hidden thinking behind work that looks effortless, and the danger of being remembered only for the one plate you finally dropped. Key Learnings1. More work is recognition, but it is not always reward 2. Manage upwards by making the trade-offs visible 3. Over-relying on one star performer exposes a leadership gap 4. Work that looks easy may be hiding enormous skill 5. Hard work should be a deliberate choice The 30-Minute Presenter Program Learn how to map out your content, structure your thoughts, and craft messages that truly matter. Check out our 30-Minute Presenter Program today. Click here to learn more

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About

Listen, laugh and learn as we share our latest thoughts about staying relevant, contemporary leadership and doing life right. Ish Cheyne is the Head of Fitness in New Zealand for global fitness juggernaut Les Mills. Sacha Coburn is the COO of Coffee Culture, a leading group of boutique coffee shops, and the co-founder of The Company You Keep.co.nz.

Information

  • Creator
    Sacha and Ish
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    287
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Not So Breakfast Show
  • Show Website
    The Not So Breakfast Show

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