FINE is a 4-Letter Word

Lori Saitz
  • 4.9 (33)
  • Mental Health
  • Updated Weekly

"Fine" is a lie leaders tell themselves — and it costs them their people, their culture, and their impact. Every episode, a leader gets honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage… especially when everything isn’t fine. We're sharing how human connection drives innovation, retention, profitability and ultimately, legacy. I trust something in this conversation will stay with you. One thing’s for sure… you’ll never hear—or say—the word “fine” in the same way again.

  1. 5d ago

    The Pause Is the Work with Jobert Abueva

    On September 6, 1997, the day of Princess Diana's funeral, Jobert Abueva couldn't get out of bed. He was in a Hong Kong hotel room, paralyzed for the better part of 48 hours, unable to touch the club sandwich or hot tea he'd ordered, crying from exhaustion, loneliness, and homesickness. It was, he says, the lowest point of a career that from the outside looked like nothing but success. For most of his thirties, Jobert had been living the frenzied pace of a global marketing career, opening new markets for Herbal Essences across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia, jumping from country to country in a matter of months, taking calls with U.S. headquarters at all hours. He got the raises and the next plum assignment. He also got the lack of sleep, the overeating, the overdrinking, and the signals he kept ignoring, until his body simply stopped. In this conversation, Jobert tells Lori how a childhood memory of Janus, the two-faced Roman god of beginnings and endings, surfaced in that hotel room and became the seed of a framework he now calls the Janus Plan. It's a conversation about what happens when you finally stop outrunning burnout, why looking backward is what makes it possible to move forward, and why boundaries only stick the second time you build them on purpose. What You'll Take Away Why ignoring burnout signals for years eventually catches up with even the highest performersHow a childhood memory of the Roman god Janus reframed Jobert's understanding of endings and beginningsWhy 'ponder the past' before 'frame the future' makes goals more sustainable than New Year's resolutionsHow setting boundaries the second time around, including turning down future expat assignments and developing a team instead of doing everything himself, reshaped his second corporate careerWhy any personal threshold, not just January 1st, can be the start of a meaningful new chapter Guest Bio Jobert E. Abueva grew up between four Asian countries and went on to a three-decade global marketing and philanthropy career, including launching Herbal Essences into international markets. He is a TEDx speaker, a Lambda Literary Prize recipient, and the author of The Janus Plan: A No-Resolutions Path to Begin Your Year with Intention. He lives in New Hope, Pennsylvania. Chapters & Key Timestamps 00:00 Opening and episode premise 00:39 The nomadic childhood that shaped a global career 07:09 Launching Herbal Essences across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia 10:55 The signals he ignored: exhaustion, overwork, and a frenzied pace 12:00 September 6, 1997: the Hong Kong hotel room he couldn't leave 15:48 A childhood memory of Janus reframes everything 20:15 Ponder the past, frame the future: leaving corporate to write 24:13 Setting boundaries the second time around 26:05 The Janus Plan: a no-resolutions path to a new year 34:24 His hype song and the moment it found him 36:17 Where to find Jobert and the invitation to 'be like Janus' Resources Mentioned Book: The Janus Plan: A No-Resolutions Path to Begin Your Year with Intention by Jobert E. AbuevaJobert's 2023 boyhood memoir (referenced in conversation; title to be confirmed with Jobert's team before publication)Hype Song: "You Get What You Give" by New Radicals - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL7-CKirWZE&list=RDDL7-CKirWZE&start_radio=1 Connect With Jobert Abueva Website: https://joberteabueva.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jobertabueva/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joberteabueva/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/joberteabueva/ Book: The Janus Plan: A No-Resolutions Path to Begin Your Year with Intention Continue With Lori Website: https://zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori Zen Rabbit This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    The Pause Is the Work with Jobert Abueva

  2. Sep 24

    Toxic Optimism with John Azar

    John Azar fled Syria at 16 in the middle of a civil war, arrived in Charlotte, North Carolina not speaking a word of English, and eventually built his way to an MBA in finance and a career in commercial real estate. Then came 2008. His first company collapsed with no clients, no money, and a brand new baby at home. He rebuilt, more than once. Along the way, his own therapist gave him a label he still carries: toxic optimist. He believes, almost unshakably, in people's capacity to change, and he's had to learn what that belief costs him when the other person never actually does the work. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, John talks with Lori Saitz about what failure actually means once you separate the event from the emotion attached to it, why he believes mastery requires periods of genuine imbalance, and what he tells business leaders facing circumstances completely outside their control. What You'll Take Away Why believing in people's inherent goodness can work against you, according to what John's own therapist told himWhy failure is whatever you decide it is, and why the event itself is different from the emotion you attach to itWhat John did in 2008 with no clients, no money, and a newborn at home, and what it teaches about controlling only what's actually yours to controlWhy sometimes the answer isn't what to add to your life, but what to stop doingWhy mastery requires periods of genuine imbalance, and why that imbalance has to come in sustainable chunks rather than forever Guest Bio John Azar is a public speaker, coach, and founder. He speaks and coaches about entrepreneurship, resilience, and the myth surrounding balance and failure. He founded Peak15 Capital, a private equity firm specializing in commercial real estate, with talks drawing on two decades of deal-making, including work on a cumulative portfolio worth over $2 billion nationwide. Prior leadership roles at MACC Venture Partners and Boston Venture Partners, which he co-founded, round out his operating background, and he is also co-founder of Forja, an institutional-grade education and coaching ecosystem for commercial real estate investing and capital markets. He is a graduate of UNC Charlotte and Boston University's Questrom School of Business. Chapters & Key Timestamps 01:25 The values he was raised with, and growing up the youngest of five in Syria 02:52 Growing up “raised by the wild,” and a childhood shaped by civil war 04:09 Immigrating to Charlotte, North Carolina at 16 with no English 05:32 The people who became his avatars: his father, brother, mother, and sisters 08:46 The term his therapist gave him: “toxic optimist” 10:53 Why failure is whatever you decide it is 14:14 His failed marriage, and what he's learned about facing himself 18:09 Building and closing multiple companies, including through the 2008 crisis 20:49 What to say to leaders facing circumstances completely outside their control 23:15 Commission and omission: sometimes the answer is what to stop doing 24:34 The daily practices that keep him grounded 25:00 Embracing imbalance as a requirement for mastery 31:04 The free diver metaphor: why imbalance has to come in chunks, not forever 32:27 The song that gets him going, and its unlikely origin 33:20 Where to find John: his coaching site and Peak 15 Capital Resources Mentioned Company: Peak15 Capital — private equity firm specializing in commercial real estateCompany: Forja — institutional-grade education and coaching ecosystem for CRE investing and capital markets, co-founded by JohnTV Show: Ballers (HBO) — the source of John's energy songSong: Right Above It by Lil Wayne and Drake — open.spotify.com/track/1kMuU3TNQvHbqvXCWBodmP Connect With John Azar Company: Peak15 Capital Company: Forja Website: johnazar.com Website: peak15cap.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jalalazar Instagram: @jjazar Email: azar@peak15cap.com Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 240: Amanda Van Der Heiden — on “win or learn,” her own reframe of failure that closely parallels John's view that failure is whatever you decide it is. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    Toxic Optimism with John Azar

  3. Sep 10

    It's Not Your Job to Fix Everything with Lori Saitz

    How many things in your life are you currently trying to fix that aren't even yours to fix? An employee who isn't performing the way you want. A team member who keeps making the same mistake. A business problem you've been solving alone for years. A family member whose choices frustrate you. Your own tendency to overwork, overthink, and over-achieve. Recording solo this week from Ideas Fest, a festival in a field about 45 minutes outside London with 6,000 other founders, entrepreneurs, and investors, Lori Saitz breaks down why fixing feels like responsibility but is actually about control, and why the exact instinct that made you successful as an individual contributor is often the thing holding your team, your family, or yourself back. Drawing on conversations from four past episodes, a business owner who scaled by stepping back, a leader who reframed what it means to see people as more than resources, a guest who spent years achieving to prove his worth, and a founder who lost everything overnight through no fault of her own, Lori lays out a five-question test for telling the difference between fixing and leading, and what real trust actually requires you to give up. What You'll Take Away Why fixing other people's problems is often less about helping them and more about maintaining a feeling of controlThe real difference between helping someone become more capable and rescuing them from ever having to beWhy the skill that made you successful as an individual contributor can become the exact thing holding your organization back once you're leading othersA five-question test to run before you jump in and solve a problem that was never yours to solveWhat “this is how it is now” actually means as a starting point for acceptance, not a form of giving up Chapters & Key Timestamps 00:00 Opening: the cost of fixing things that aren't yours to fix 01:27 Recording solo from Ideas Fest in England 01:57 The things we try to fix that were never ours to fix 02:41 Why fixing feels like responsibility, but is often about control 03:10 The high-achiever hustle myth, and what it actually costs 03:37 You can only control your inputs, never the outcomes 04:08 The exact skill that gets you promoted becomes the thing holding your team back 04:39 Will Steel's story: the business owner who scaled by stepping back (Ep. 235) 05:16 Five questions to ask before deciding your team needs more of you 05:55 The real difference between helping and rescuing 06:30 What rescuing sounds like, versus what leadership actually sounds like 07:37 Scott Doggett's boat analogy: rowing hard, barely rowing, rowing backwards (Ep. 238) 08:42 Why you can't lead someone you've already decided is a problem 09:19 Recognizing people as humans, not managing them as “resources” 09:55 Anthony Sparks and the belief that achievement will finally make you worthy (Ep. 216) 11:01 Why external achievement can't fix an internal problem 11:30 What happens when you genuinely cannot fix the situation 11:57 Jodi Scott's story: losing everything in 24 hours, through nothing she did wrong (Ep. 236) 13:17 “This is how it is now”: acceptance as a starting point, not surrender 14:00 Why trust and micromanaging cannot coexist 14:38 Trusting someone means trusting their way, not just your way 15:16 The five-question test: am I fixing, or am I leading? 16:28 What true leadership actually looks like 16:56 The song, and why it's a little ironic given today's topic The Fixing-or-Leading Test RUN THIS BEFORE YOU JUMP IN TO SOLVE SOMETHING THAT ISN'T YOURS: 1. Is this even mine to fix? If not, step back. 2. Does this person need me to give them an answer, or do they need me to ask better questions? 3. Am I solving the problem, or am I relieving my own discomfort? 4. If I fix this, what will this person learn? 5. What happens if I don't step in? Resources Mentioned Song: Control by Janet Jackson Episodes Referenced in This Episode Episode 235: Will Steel — the auto body shop client who went from 65–75-hour weeks to 12, grew revenue from $2.5M to $7M, and sold the business for $23.5M within 12 months of stepping out of the day-to-day.Episode 238: Scott Doggett — the boat analogy for team engagement: three people rowing hard, five barely dipping their oars, two actively rowing backwards.Episode 216: Anthony Sparks — on why money, titles, and achievement are scoreboards that can buy options and reduce stress, but can't replace self-respect or meaningful connection.Episode 236: Jodi Scott — on losing her team and her income within 24 hours after her acquiring partner was raided by federal investigators, and the phrase that became her starting point afterward: “this is how it is now.” Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation

    It's Not Your Job to Fix Everything with Lori Saitz

  4. Sep 3

    A Google Search Got Him Fired with Shane Lukas

    Shane Lukas built his career on the belief that transparency, done right, protects you. He had spoken about his history in sex work advocacy at national and international conferences for years, and when a highly awarded, LGBTQ-friendly US company hired him, he did what he always did: he was upfront about who he was and where he'd come from. The same day, someone in the sales department Googled his name and called HR. He was terminated immediately, for something that had nothing to do with his job performance. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, Shane tells Lori Saitz what that firing revealed about the gap between a company's stated values and its lived ones, what a federal arrest years later taught him about testing his own values under real pressure, and why he now believes clarity about your values, not compromise, is what actually makes hard decisions easier. What You'll Take Away Why being fired for radical transparency, from a company that had built its brand on LGBTQ+ support, revealed the real gap between stated values and lived onesWhat a values hierarchy is, and why trying to defend every value equally leaves you paralyzed instead of groundedWhy Shane believes the next generation may be better positioned to stand up for their values, having less invested in promises that were already brokenThe difference between the 'melting pot' and 'mosaic' metaphors for culture, and why the mosaic reflects what he actually wants to seeWhat algorithm-driven feeds cost us that a library shelf never did, and why 'adjacent knowledge' matters more than it sounds Guest Bio Shane Lukas is an activist, the brains behind award-winning brand strategy firm A Great Idea, a public speaker, and co-host of Power Beyond Pride, the weekly podcast for queer changemakers. In his latest TEDx talk, “What Values Conflict Costs You,” he brings Midwestern straight-talk to the lie of “I'm fine”: what misalignment actually costs you, and how courage becomes a practice instead of a personality trait. Chapters & Key Timestamps 02:00The values he was raised with: authenticity, compassion, and bodily autonomy 06:00Growing up in an unstable, abusive household, and learning to self-parent at a young age 07:30Meeting Patty Alzator at 14, and what she modeled about dissent through compassion 09:00Studying journalism on the belief that more information leads to better decisions 11:00Building the country's only advocacy program for men in the adult industry 12:00Terminated the same day, after being fully transparent about his past 15:00Being tested on how far he was actually willing to go for his own values 16:00The second TEDx talk, and the arrest that prompted it 19:00The values hierarchy: why you can't defend every value equally 21:00Clarity around your values as the thing that actually makes decisions easier 23:00Whether thinking about your values is a luxury, and why he doesn't think so 27:00Pushing back on a company that refused LGBTQ+ protections despite employing queer people 29:30Why the next generation may be more prepared to stand up for their values 33:30The library metaphor: what 'adjacent knowledge' gave us that algorithms don't 38:00The song that gets him ready to walk on stage 39:00Where to find Shane: shanelukas.com and agreatidea.com Resources Mentioned TEDx Talk: What Values Conflict Costs You — Shane LukasTEDx Talk: Shane's second talk, on the arrest referenced in this episodePodcast: Power Beyond Pride — the weekly podcast for queer changemakers, co-hosted by ShaneFree Resource: downloadable resources and white papers — agreatidea.com/insightsBook: Shane's upcoming book, launching October — sign up for launch notice at shanelukas.com/bookSong: Be Great by Jill Scott (feat. Trombone Shorty) — youtube.com/watch?v=ouDRlJljBgs Connect With Shane Lukas Company: A Great Idea Website: shanelukas.com Website: agreatidea.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/shane-lukas Instagram: @shanelukascom and @agreatideaco X (Twitter): @shanelukascom and @weareagi Podcast: Power Beyond Pride Free Resource: agreatidea.com/insights Book: sign up for launch notice at shanelukas.com/book Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 241: Suneet Bhatt — on values clarity as the foundation for every hard decision, not an obstacle to it. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    A Google Search Got Him Fired with Shane Lukas

  5. Aug 27

    Wrong Tape, Wrong Story with Henry Tolbert

    Henry Tolbert was sitting at a fire pit behind a rental house, grilling hot dogs for his wife and four daughters because the insurance money for their flooded home was running out, when he finally said out loud what he had been avoiding for months: this isn't fine. A few years earlier, Henry had been leading a small church that grew from 40 people to nearly 200, and had been named bishop over 65 churches. Then, without warning, discord broke out with the leader who had brought him in, and he was forced to resign from everything at once. In that same season, an unidentified animal chewed through the water lines in the walls of his home, flooding the first floor and displacing his family for six weeks. He had no job, no income, and what he calls a broken sense of purpose. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, Henry tells Lori Saitz the full arc: a high school football career derailed by one injury after another, a scholarship earned in just five games, an NFL tryout built on the wrong game tape, a Bible study intervention that redirected him into ministry, and the fire pit moment that gave him permission to stop building other people's dreams and finally build his own. What You'll Take Away Why a childhood dream pursued through repeated injury taught Henry more than an NFL career would haveHow losing his ministry role and his home in the same season forced an honest reckoning he had been avoiding for yearsWhy judging his life by lead goals, the inputs he controls, instead of lag goals, the outcomes he doesn't, changed how he shows up every dayWhat shifted when Henry stopped chasing clients and started inviting people insteadHow admitting he wasn't fine gave him permission to finally build something of his own Guest Bio Henry Tolbert spent years answering “How are you?” with “I'm fine” while quietly running on fumes, leading a church, building a business, and pretending he had it all together. Spoiler: he didn't. Now he's the Founder of Simple Systems Consulting, author of The Comeback Plan, and a recovering “I'm fine” addict who helps pastors and entrepreneurs stop white-knuckling their way through leadership and start building systems that actually let them breathe. He's also an Associate Pastor, podcast co-host, husband, dad of four, and a man who once grilled hot dogs over a fire pit in his backyard because life had completely fallen apart, and decided that was the last time he'd pretend everything was fine when it wasn't. Chapters & Key Timestamps 00:00Opening and introductions — the Henry connection and generational names 01:33The values that shaped him: faith and football in Birmingham, Alabama 05:07A high school career derailed by injury after injury 07:07Five games, one scholarship, and a record-setting career at Grambling State 07:47What NFL scouts never saw: the tape from his best season 08:47His grandmother's plea to walk away — and why he couldn't 11:07The Bible study intervention that redirected him toward ministry 13:47“There's a light around you” — the moment that sealed it 14:47Becoming a bishop over 65 churches, then losing it overnight 15:47The critters, the flooded house, and six weeks displaced with four daughters 17:47The fire pit moment: admitting he wasn't fine 21:07Why people of faith are so good at sweeping things under the rug 25:47Lead goals vs. lag goals: judging life by inputs, not outcomes 27:47The coaching advice that changed everything: invite, don't chase 29:47Why the people who found him became his best clients 31:47Building an audience by just showing up, even when only his wife was watching 34:07In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins: Henry's walk-up song 35:07Where to find Henry: getchurchsystems.com and mybusinesssystems.com Resources Mentioned Book: The Comeback Plan by Henry TolbertFree Resource: Get Church Systems — getchurchsystems.com (for ministry and church leaders)Free Resource: My Business Systems — mybusinesssystems.com (for business owners and entrepreneurs)Resource: The Mandate Method — themandatemethod.comSong: In the Air Tonight by Phil Collins — open.spotify.com/track/7Dbg5O9nNWu6SWxDjJ9qoq Connect With Henry Tolbert Company: Simple Systems Consulting Website: getchurchsystems.com Website: mybusinesssystems.com Website: themandatemethod.com Book: The Comeback Plan LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/henry-tolbert-005a3943 Facebook: facebook.com/htolbert Instagram: instagram.com/henry_tolbert Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 237: Scott Doggett — a leader who lost his role suddenly and rebuilt around a clearer sense of who he actually was. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    Wrong Tape, Wrong Story with Henry Tolbert

  6. Aug 20

    A Toddler Saved His Life with Jim Morris

    Content Note: This episode includes a brief, non-graphic reference to a personal crisis involving suicidal thoughts. Jim Morris grew up believing giving was the whole equation. His father taught him to give the shirt off his back to anyone who needed it, and it showed up everywhere in his childhood, right down to the night his father pulled a stranger from a burning car outside their home. What Jim didn't learn for a long time was how to receive. It took a high-stakes business risk, a $240,000 self-funded conference that lost $112,000, and a moment of real personal crisis for him to finally ask for help directly. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, Jim tells Lori Saitz about the Triple H method for actually supporting the people you love, and about four words from his two-year-old daughter that pulled him back from the lowest point of his life. What You'll Take Away Why guessing what someone needs, help, being heard, or a hug, is one of the most common ways people let each other downHow a single moment of connection can ripple outward in ways you'll never see or know aboutWhy anticipating the worst contractually protects relationships and business deals alikeThe Five Alive exercise: what's already sitting, untapped, in your last five text conversationsWhy Jim now treats a $112,000 loss as an investment, not a failure Guest Bio Jim Morris is a keynote speaker who helps organizations scale revenue and create deep belonging by centering their culture on integrity, connection, and intentional growth. He is the author of Connect or Die: How to Survive AI and serves as the CEO of Human Touch Publishing. Chapters & Key Timestamps 03:00The night a car crashed outside his childhood home 05:00His father pulling a stranger from a burning car, and the police officer's warning 07:00The question that reframes everything: how are you at receiving? 09:00The moment everything was on the line and he finally had to ask for help 11:30The Triple H method: help, heard, or hugged, and why guessing wrong fails people 17:47A period of profound personal crisis, interrupted by four words from his daughter 26:30The confidant, ally, acquaintance bullseye exercise, and how to build it 32:00The Five Alive exercise: what's already sitting in your text messages 34:00The $240,000 conference, the sales team that walked out, and losing $112,000 35:30The sign on the highway that said exactly what he needed to hear 37:30Reframing failure as an investment, not a loss Resources Mentioned Book: Connect or Die: How to Survive AI by Jim Morris — a.co/d/00BVmyGxSong: Spinnin by Connor Price — youtu.be/UekfKh59KOw Connect With Jim Morris Company: Human Touch Publishing Website: realjimmorris.com Book: Connect or Die: How to Survive AI — a.co/d/00BVmyGx LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/realjimmorris Facebook: facebook.com/therealjimmorris Instagram: instagram.com/realjimmorris Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 240: Amanda Van Der Heiden — on resilience, boundaries, and what it costs to keep giving without receiving. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    A Toddler Saved His Life with Jim Morris

  7. Aug 13

    The Surprising Path to Happiness with Suneet Bhatt

    Suneet Bhatt spent 12 years in private equity and venture-backed businesses, and every job followed the same arc: new and exciting at first, then, faster each time, something felt off, and he went looking for the next one. He never noticed he was the common denominator. It took his wife, after his last business exit, to name what he couldn't see in himself: his happiness at work was getting shorter each time, his exits were getting more acrimonious, and he needed to stop and figure out what actually mattered to him. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, Suneet talks with Lori Saitz about what came after that conversation — the executive coaching practice, the Rutgers class that doesn't mention the word purpose until session 15, and the research-backed exercise he uses to counter the brain's built-in negativity bias. What You'll Take Away Why purpose has to start with reflection, not predictionThe three consistent through-lines across every popular definition of purpose: personal, forward-looking, bigger than youThe 18-minute exercise, happy, proud, not yet satisfied, and why the order mattersWhat the research on self-forgiveness and procrastination actually showsWhy 'stuck' is not one problem, and each version of it needs a different response Guest Bio Suneet Bhatt has spent more than 25 years helping people gain clarity about who they are and what they want, then move toward it with purpose. He coaches founders and leaders, works with teams as an EOS Implementer, and has guided people from boardrooms to classrooms. He is the author of Making Sense of Purpose, out August 25, 2026 from Morgan James, built on one premise: before you can make sense of your purpose, you have to make sense of yourself. Chapters & Key Timestamps 01:33Values from an immigrant household: be helpful, above everything else 07:14The corporate route: Fortune 500, an MBA at Duke, then 12 years in private equity 08:30Why he never noticed he was the common denominator 08:58His wife's intervention after the last exit 12:03Why 'finding your purpose' feels like waiting for an Amazon package 13:43Personal, forward-looking, bigger than you: the three common threads in every definition of purpose 14:12The Rutgers bait-and-switch: purpose doesn't come up until class 15 16:07Why you should never build your purpose on a single point of failure like joy 18:16Happy, proud, not yet satisfied: the 18-minute exercise, explained start to finish 22:06Negativity bias: why we respond more strongly to negative stimuli than positive 23:48Plateaus, not stuck: reframing what it means to feel stuck 25:09Self-forgiveness research: the procrastination study and what it proves Resources Mentioned Book: Making Sense of Purpose by Suneet Bhatt (Morgan James, August 25, 2026) — available for pre-orderResource: book soundtrack, one song per chapter, on Spotify, YouTube, and Amazon MusicResource: Purpose Radar Library — a free, rated map of books, podcasts, and films about purposeSong: Da Rockwilder by Method Man and Redman — youtube.com/watch?v=WCYy8jpp7R8 Connect With Suneet Bhatt Website: makingsenseofpurpose.com Book: Making Sense of Purpose (Morgan James, out August 25, 2026) LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/suneetbhatt Instagram: @suneetonpurpose Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 238: Scott Doggett — on purpose, burnout, and what it takes to stop and ask the bigger question. Research & Sources Suneet cites research showing humans respond 2 to 5 times more strongly to negative stimuli than positive. This aligns with well-established negativity bias research, including Roy Baumeister's 'bad is stronger than good' review, Kahneman and Tversky's work on loss aversion (roughly a 2:1 ratio), and Cacioppo's neural response studies showing measurably stronger brain activation to negative stimuli. The exact ratio varies by study and context, but the underlying finding is well replicated. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    The Surprising Path to Happiness with Suneet Bhatt

  8. Aug 6

    Get Back on the Horse with Amanda Van Der Heiden

    Replaced by Three Employees and Called It a Badge of Honor with Amanda Van Der Heiden Amanda Van Der Heiden could trot on a horse before she could walk. When she fell into a sandpit at age two, her parents put her right back on before she was done crying — no discussion, no choice. That lesson became the operating principle for the rest of her life, including a corporate career that hit the exact same burnout pattern three times in three different companies. At 27, working 20-hour days with a team spanning two continents, she left one role and was replaced by three full-time employees. She saw it as a badge of honor for years, until the same thing happened again, and then again. On this episode of FINE is a 4-Letter Word, Amanda talks with Lori Saitz about what executive presence actually looks like, the real difference between introversion and extroversion, and why she now measures success by whether she tried, not whether she succeeded. What You'll Take Away Why chasing bigger networks misses the point when most people already have valuable relationships they've stopped tendingWhat Amanda learned about executive presence by watching three tiers of leadership arrive at the same conferenceThe real difference between introversion and extroversion — it's about how you refuel, not how social you areWhy the same burnout pattern across three different companies pointed to one common denominatorWhat Amanda means by 'win or learn,' and why it removes the fear of trying Guest Bio Amanda Van Der Heiden is a Chaos Organizer and Relationship Builder, and a passionate learning and development leader who enjoys energizing and enabling people to excel. She is an award-winning consultant, speaker, coach, and author who drives change, talent development, and effective leadership worldwide. Chapters & Key Timestamps 01:05Raised on a horse farm: work ethic, determination, resilience 03:21Raised between Kentucky and Long Island, and how that shaped her adaptability 07:19The horse story: strapped into the stirrups before she could walk 08:06The sandpit: falling at two years old and being put right back on 18:09The leadership conference: watching executive presence across three tiers of seniority 22:03The burnout pattern: 20-hour days, a team across two continents, 17,000 people 23:17Getting replaced by three full-time employees, and thinking it was a compliment 25:41Introversion and extroversion explained correctly: it is about refueling, not sociability 28:01Win or learn: the redefinition of failure that removes the fear Resources Mentioned Free Resource: goal-accomplishment giveaway for listeners — goGTDS.comSong: Get Things Done by Solyn — open.spotify.com/track/2WsizP4qoRB7rAZb3oxsRN Connect With Amanda Van Der Heiden Website: GTDScorp.com Free Resource: goGTDS.com LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/amandavanderheiden Facebook: facebook.com/profile.php?id=61573758719415 Instagram: gtds.LearnTuesday Continue With Lori Website: zenrabbit.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Email: Lori@ZenRabbit.com Invitation From Lori This episode is sponsored by Zen Rabbit. Trust is the foundation of all great workplaces, and in today's hybrid, fast-moving work culture, it's built through consistent, clear, human communication. Quarterly town halls, Slack messages, or team-building events are rarely enough to create the connection employees need. That's why forward-thinking companies are hiring Lori to create internal and private podcasts that bring leaders and employees together through authentic stories and real conversations. Think of it as the old-school company newsletter reinvented for the modern workplace. If your company wants to strengthen communication, connection, community, and culture, connect with Lori at Lori@ZenRabbit.com or on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lorisaitz/ Related Conversation Episode 238: Scott Doggett — on employee engagement, burnout, and treating people as more than resources to manage. About FINE is a 4-Letter Word FINE is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is fine. We explore what it takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage, especially during the seasons when life and leadership feel anything but fine. Listen for honest conversations about how human connection influences innovation, retention, leadership, and real impact. New episodes every week. Follow FINE is a 4-Letter Word Follow or subscribe so you never miss an episode. If this conversation gave you something useful to think about, leave a review. Reviews help more people discover the show and join the conversation.

    Get Back on the Horse with Amanda Van Der Heiden
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About

"Fine" is a lie leaders tell themselves — and it costs them their people, their culture, and their impact. Every episode, a leader gets honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage… especially when everything isn’t fine. We're sharing how human connection drives innovation, retention, profitability and ultimately, legacy. I trust something in this conversation will stay with you. One thing’s for sure… you’ll never hear—or say—the word “fine” in the same way again.

Information

  • Creator
    Lori Saitz
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    295
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Lori Saitz
  • Show Website
    FINE is a 4-Letter Word