FINE is a 4-Letter Word

Lori Saitz
  • 5.0 (32)
  • Mental Health
  • Updated Weekly

"Fine" is a lie leaders tell themselves — and it costs them their people, their culture, and their impact. Every episode, a leader gets honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage… especially when everything isn’t fine. We're sharing how human connection drives innovation, retention, profitability and ultimately, legacy. I trust something in this conversation will stay with you. One thing’s for sure… you’ll never hear—or say—the word “fine” in the same way again.

  1. 5d ago

    Get Back on the Horse with Amanda Van Der Heiden

    Amanda Van Der Heiden could trot on a horse before she could walk. Her parents strapped her legs to the stirrups as a toddler. By age two, when she fell into the sandpit they trained in, they put her right back on before she was done crying. There was no discussion. You get back up. That was the whole lesson. Decades later, with two degrees in psychology and a career built across some of the largest organizations in the country, Amanda has hit the same wall more than once: working 20-hour days, running teams across continents, and eventually burning out so completely that when she left one company, they replaced her with three full-time employees. She saw it as a badge of honor. It took her years to recognize the pattern for what it actually was. On Episode 240 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Amanda talks with Lori Saitz about the horse farm childhood that built her resilience without a vocabulary for it, the psychology behind why executive presence is instantly recognizable even when it cannot be defined, the real difference between introversion and extroversion (it has nothing to do with how much you like people), and the framework she now uses to help leaders set their teams up to actually succeed instead of just survive. She also shares her redefinition of failure — you either win or you learn — and why she believes the fear of trying is almost always worse than whatever you were afraid of in the first place. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: [00:00] Cold open: there is no choice, you get back up[00:39] Welcome and introduction: setting people up to excel[01:05] Raised on a horse farm: work ethic, determination, resilience[02:14] Empathy as a learned trait — echoing a recent conversation with Rob Scheer[03:21] Raised between Kentucky and Long Island: the dichotomy that shaped her adaptability[04:29] Too city for the country, too country for the city — and how that became a strength[05:05] Two-color hair, a Southern accent in New York, and never being able to blend in[06:08] The chameleon principle: adapting how you communicate without changing who you are[07:19] The horse story: strapped into the stirrups before she could walk[08:06] The sandpit: falling at two years old and being put right back on[09:53] Why staying down was never presented as an option — and the case for why it was actually safer[11:13] How the horse farm resilience shows up in her own parenting today[12:28] Letting her daughter struggle with a 25-pound shaving bag on purpose[13:31] The leadership philosophy: show the vision, let people find their own way there[15:14] Never having had a real manager in her entire corporate career[18:09] The leadership conference: watching executive presence in real time across three tiers of seniority[20:32] Why professional women have to be fine — and what that costs[22:03] The burnout pattern: 20-hour days, a team of 10 across two continents, 17,000 people[23:17] Getting replaced by three full-time employees — and thinking it was a compliment[23:48] Realizing the same burnout happened at a completely different company — the common denominator was her[24:55] What self-care actually means (hint: it is not a manicure)[25:41] Introversion and extroversion explained correctly: it is about refueling, not sociability[28:01] Win or learn: the redefinition of failure that removes the fear[31:20] Get Things Done — the song, the mantra, and the bias toward action[32:29] Where to find Amanda: the free goal-setting workbook at gtdscorp.com Connect with Amanda Van Der Heiden: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandavanderheiden/ Website: https://gtdscorp.com/ About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    Get Back on the Horse with Amanda Van Der Heiden

  2. Jul 30

    Concentration Camp for Throwaway Teens with Cyndy Etler

    Cyndy Etler was 13 years old when she chose foster care over going home. Her mother had stood in the bathroom doorway and watched her stepfather hurt her, and that was enough. She chose the ink on the fingertips at the police station over the house she had been living in. What followed was a month at Janus House — a youth shelter in Bridgeport, Connecticut, where the staff were the first adults who ever gave her a choice and respected the answer. It was there, at 14, walking to the corner store with a pack of Marlboro Reds and a new sense of what an adult could be for a kid, that she was struck by lightning. She knew what she was supposed to do with her life. Then her mother enrolled her in Straight Incorporated. Straight was a warehouse program that ran under the guise of drug rehabilitation. Parents signed over their child and left. The ACLU later described it as a concentration camp for throwaway teens. Cyndy had smoked marijuana three times and drunk beer once. She was held for 16 months, with her first contact with her mother not happening until five months in, through a supervised visit with a scripted exchange. She came out brainwashed, isolating in high school bathroom stalls, telling kids who tried to talk to her that they were not in her best interest. Then an English teacher saw her writing, read it out loud to the class, and said: Cyndy wrote that. On Episode 239 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Cyndy Etler — foster care survivor, Straight Inc. survivor, trained boxer, summa cum laude graduate, teen life coach, and author of Dead Inside and We Can't Be Friends — talks with Lori Saitz about what it took to get from there to here, what one adult's genuine interest can do for a kid's entire life, and why she tells every teenager she works with to watch for the adult who sees them and wants absolutely nothing in return. Her books are Dead Inside and We Can't Be Friends. Season 2 of Robert Downey Jr.'s podcast The Sunshine Place is the full history of Straight Incorporated, narrated by Cyndy. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: [00:00] How they met at a networking event and booked the show within days[01:00] The plan that never happened: her father, the musician, the Costa Rica sabbatical, his death when she was one[02:30] The values she was raised with — and the mother who modeled them[04:30] The age-nine decision: be the opposite of her mother[05:30] Born a fighter: the stepfather, the abuse, the bathroom doorway[07:00] Choosing foster care at 13 — the ink on the fingers, the choice at the police station[09:00] Janus House: the first adults who gave her a choice and respected the answer[10:30] Hit by lightning at 14: walking to the corner store and knowing her purpose[13:30] Straight Incorporated: the warehouse, the ACLU verdict, 16 months, 250 kids, the coercive cult[17:00] Why you could not just fake your way out — the Lord of the Flies dynamic[18:30] Five months before she could speak to her mother, with a script and an observer[19:00] Coming out brainwashed, eating lunch in bathroom stalls, telling kids they weren't in her best interest[21:00] The English teacher who read her writing to the class and said her name out loud[22:00] The book signing reunion: the teacher still Blanche DuBois, still rolling her eyes at the jock[24:30] What the teacher taught without knowing it: one drop of water and a dying plant[26:00] The lesson Cyndy carries into her work: you can change a life without carrying the kid forever[27:00] What teenagers actually need versus what they usually get: autonomy vs. control[29:30] Coaching vs. therapy: no DSM-5, no IEP goals, just what do you want to change[30:30] Education, boxing, and the other building blocks that kept her above water[31:30] The one adult who listens without wanting something in return — what to watch for[33:00] Dead Inside and We Can't Be Friends — the books, the writing process, the hair falling out[34:30] The Sunshine Place podcast Season 2 — Robert Downey Jr.'s series, narrated by Cyndy[35:30] Bobby Brown's My Prerogative as the energy song — and why she almost became a rock star anyway[36:30] Where to find Cyndy: theteenlifecoach.com and cyndyetler.com Connect with Cyndy Etler: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cyndy-etler-med-icf-acc-b9149535/ Books and author info: https://cyndyetler.com/ About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    Concentration Camp for Throwaway Teens with Cyndy Etler

  3. Jul 23

    AI Can't Do This with Scott Doggett

    Scott Doggett spent 30 years in corporate America — first running hotels and resorts in hospitality operations, then leading learning and development teams up to vice president. He was, by every external measure, successful. Titles. Awards. Promotions. The ladder, climbed. Then came the layoff at the end of 2023. His first in 30 years. He gave himself the six months of his severance package to figure out what came next. He tried consulting. He taught college classes. He worked with a Native American tribe in Alabama. Nothing sparked. On the exact six-month anniversary of the layoff, he had what he describes as a mini panic attack — the realization that he was no closer to his purpose than the day he was let go. That night he prayed and surrendered. The next morning, the first email in his inbox was a LinkedIn job posting for a director role at a Christian nonprofit — a role that described, almost word for word, everything he had spent the last decade building. He applied. He got a call back the same day. He got the job. Nine months later, he was laid off again. On Episode 237 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Scott Doggett tells host Lori Saitz the full story: the values from a small New England town, the 30 years of go-go-go that never left room to ask the real questions, the wilderness journey, the two layoffs, the servant leadership he witnessed at the nonprofit that changed everything, and the movement he is now building through National ALD to humanize workplaces across America. Along the way he shares the Gallup numbers that should alarm every business leader (only 30% of your workforce is fully engaged — and 20% are actively working against you), the boat analogy that reframes where leadership energy actually belongs, the Ebenezer Scrooge workshop experience that wakes leaders up to their own future, and why he believes the leaders of tomorrow will be defined not by what they know but by how well they connect. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: 00:00 The water-instead-of-coffee opening and getting right into it 01:00 Values from a small New England town: every person is a priceless human being 02:00 Early leadership lessons that didn't fit: the big stick, the raised voice, the five-second experiment 03:30 How authoritarian leadership styles persist — and what is forcing them to change 05:30 Why employees today expect more: options, mobility, and the cost of turnover 06:00 The label problem: why calling people 'resources' and 'assets' changes how we treat them 07:00 The Gallup numbers: 30% engaged, 50% apathetic, 20% working against you 08:30 What that 50% actually wants — and why pizza parties aren't the answer 09:00 Scott's fine-but-not-fine moment: VP title, the layoff, and the six-month wilderness journey 10:30 Consulting, teaching college, the Alabama tribe, and nothing sparking 11:30 The panic attack on the six-month anniversary — and the prayer that night 12:00 The LinkedIn email the next morning and why he almost didn't open it 13:00 Getting the job, nine months at the nonprofit, and getting laid off again 14:00 What he saw at the nonprofit that he had never seen in 30 years of corporate life 15:00 Slowing down, morning walks, scripture, and learning to listen for answers 17:00 What to say to the leader still inside the corporate grind who thinks this doesn't apply to them 19:00 The mirror exercise: changing the label from 'resource' to 'priceless human being' 20:00 The boat analogy: three rowing hard, five barely dipping oars, two rowing backwards 22:00 Practical technique: pause, notice the label, change it to priceless — even in traffic 24:00 Great Aunt Frida in the blue Cadillac convertible, and the grace it teaches 26:00 AI, stress, and why the future of leadership is human connection 27:30 The national movement: nationalald.com, faculty across the country, public workshops 29:00 The Ebenezer Scrooge experience: past, present, future — what do you want to be known for? 30:30 Take care of your geese. The goose and the golden egg. 31:00 Eminem's Lose Yourself as the long-run pick-me-up song Connect with Scott Doggett: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scottdoggett/ Website: https://www.nationalald.com/ About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    AI Can't Do This with Scott Doggett

  4. Jul 16

    Trash Bags to Backpacks with Rob Scheer

    Rob Scheer was thrown out at 18 with a trash bag. He was the youngest of 10 children. His mother was married six times. His father beat him and his siblings, punching him in the bladder so repeatedly that by the time Rob joined the Navy, it ruptured. He had spent his senior year of high school homeless — sleeping in the bathroom of the taco restaurant where he worked, on beanbag chairs in the public library after closing, and on the floors of friends' homes. He barely graduated. He had no family to go back to. He had no picture to put on his bunk in boot camp except one of Tina Turner. Then he became one of the most successful mortgage bankers in the country. On Episode 237 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Rob Scheer sits down with Lori Saitz to share the full arc: the teachers who believed in him when no one else did, the Navy discharge that sent him hitchhiking down Route 7 with a Salvation Army suit and a fabricated resume, the mortgage industry boss who ripped that resume in half and told him he was the most honest person he had ever met, the 28-year banking career, and the moment he looked at his four children in designer clothes and realized he had raised entitled kids who had never learned empathy. That realization led to Comfort Cases — a nonprofit that packs backpacks filled with brand-new essentials for children entering foster care on their first night. No more trash bags. Over 320,000 cases delivered to all 50 states, Washington D.C., Puerto Rico, and the United Kingdom. Three-month waiting list for volunteers. Published by Derek Jeter. Featured on The Ellen DeGeneres Show. Rob also shares what it means to be a foster and adoptive father to five sons, including one adopted at 18 in an adult adoption. He talks about why empathy is not in our DNA and must be taught, what leadership actually looks like outside of a job title, and why a five-year-old named Grayson was the one who understood from the very beginning that every backpack needs a blanket. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: 00:00 How Rob's team pitched this episode: "Anytime I can talk about foster care, I'm gonna do that" 01:30 The teachers who shaped him — not parents — and the book signing reunion with Mrs. Boley 05:00 Aging out of foster care at 18: the trash bag at the door, the youngest of 10 06:30 His mother's choices vs. her environment — and why Rob refuses to blur that distinction 07:30 Senior year homeless: the taco bathroom, the library beanbags, the school breakfast line 09:30 Joining the Navy to have somewhere to go — and being voted Honor Man at boot camp 11:30 The bladder rupture: 12 years of his father's abuse, and how the Navy discharged him 13:00 Hitchhiking down Route 7, the Salvation Army suit, and the fabricated resume 14:30 Confessing the lies to his boss — and the boss who ripped the resume and said "get back to work" 16:00 28 years in banking, mortgage companies across the country 17:00 Looking at four entitled children in designer clothes and realizing something had to change 18:00 What five-year-old Grayson said about the blanket in the backpack 19:00 320,000 cases delivered to all 50 states, DC, Puerto Rico, and the UK 19:30 Empathy is not in our DNA — it has to be taught 23:00 Derek Jeter published his memoir. The Ellen Show. Walking away from banking for purpose. 25:00 740 children enter foster care every day in the United States 25:30 Three-month volunteer waiting list, 40,000 cases this year, and the expansion plan 28:00 Leadership: not a title, not followers, not waiting for someone else to fix the problem 29:00 How you can help: used books, hotel toiletries, yarn for the women at Topeka Correctional Facility 31:00 The gecko/iguana/frog stuffy knitted by women at a Kansas prison — and Melissa Etheridge's role 32:00 Tina Turner's Simply the Best — the only picture he had in boot camp 32:30 How to reach Rob Connect with Rob: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-scheer-27482653/ Website: https://comfortcases.org/ About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    Trash Bags to Backpacks with Rob Scheer

  5. Jul 9

    Built It, Sold It, Bought It Back with Jodi Scott

    Jodi Scott fell off her bike. That's how Green Goo started. Riding the same Texas road she rode every day, her laces caught in the spokes, and she looked up at an overgrown driveway leading to a white Southern colonial estate she'd somehow never noticed before. The next day, a for sale sign appeared. Her realtor grandmother told her she'd never qualify for the loan and that no one goes to Kyle, Texas. She bought it anyway. That one bed and breakfast became four B&Bs, four wedding venues, and three event services companies. Then she got pregnant, found a first aid cabinet full of ingredients she couldn't justify, and called her mom and sister to start making plant-based salves in the kitchen — production eventually took over so completely they had to cook meals outside on camping equipment. Green Goo grew into a national retail brand. Then came the pandemic, a sale to what looked like the right partner, and a federal raid on that partner that gave Jodi less than 24 hours to terminate her entire team — her mom, sister, husband, brother-in-law, and closest friends. On Episode 236 of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Jodi Scott tells Lori Saitz the full story: the military upbringing that shaped her values, the pivot from psychoneuroimmunology into entrepreneurship, the coach who wouldn't let her cancel her Monday session, and the two-year fight to buy Green Goo back. Plus how Taylor Swift's Ready For It became her boardroom pump-up song — a detail her 14-year-old daughter had to remind her of. Listen on all platforms: search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Timestamps: 00:00 How Jodi found the show and why she insisted on reaching out personally 01:30 Military upbringing: honor, integrity, commitment, and overdue library books 02:30 Her mother, the self-taught programmer who predicted mobile business in the third grade 04:00 Pre-med pivot: double major in biology and psychology, master's in health psychology 04:45 Psychoneuroimmunology: training physicians on the biopsychosocial model 06:30 Why international medical students were the most open to holistic thinking 09:30 The bike fall, the overgrown driveway, and the phone call to her grandmother 11:30 One bed and breakfast becomes four, plus four wedding venues and three other companies 15:00 A pregnant Jodi, a first aid cabinet full of chemicals, and the idea for Green Goo 16:30 Growing herbs in Idaho, drying them on screen doors, selling at farmers markets 18:00 Why they renamed the entire brand Green Goo — because customers kept calling it that 19:30 Plant-based first aid before plant-based was a category: the uphill battle with buyers 23:30 The pandemic pivot from retail to online, and why they almost did not survive 25:00 Selling the company to find a financial partner — and what happened next 26:30 The acquirer gets raided by the feds. 24 hours. Entire team terminated. 28:30 The kitchen table moment: running out of lip balm and getting emails from customers 30:30 The coach who refused the cancellation and started a mental fitness boot camp 32:30 Micro-meditations every three hours: how presence rebuilt her decision-making 34:30 Leadership advice: anticipate the worst contractually, invest in mental fitness 36:30 Taylor Swift's Ready For It as her boardroom prep song, revealed by her daughter 37:30 Where to find Jodi: greengoo.com and LinkedIn at Jodi Scott Guest Bio: Jodi Scott grew up in a military family, drawing service and resilience from her father and reinvention from her self-taught programmer mother. After studying biology and psychology (plus a master's in health psychology) and training physicians in holistic care, a chance bike accident redirected her into hospitality — building four B&Bs and four wedding venues. A sketchy first aid cabinet during pregnancy inspired her, her mother, and sister to launch Green Goo, a plant-based first aid and skincare brand that grew from an Idaho herb garden into national retail. After a sale to Green Goo collapsed when the acquirer hit federal legal trouble, Jodi spent two years rebuilding — then bought the company back. She now runs Green Goo with her family in Colorado. Connect with Jodi Scott: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodi-scott-7234331b8/ Website: https://www.greengoo.com/ Jodi is open to connecting with people who reach out directly. About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    Built It, Sold It, Bought It Back with Jodi Scott

  6. Jul 2

    You Get Paid for This? with Will Steel

    What do you do when you get offered the top job in your industry and you turn it down anyway? Will Steel did exactly that. He grew up in rural Yorkshire, delivering milk at the age of three alongside his mother, who ran the family's milk round for 40 years just to cover the grocery bill. He worked for a stonemason from age 12 to 16, digging graves and mending roofs. He talked his way into an engineering apprenticeship, earned two technician qualifications simultaneously, got into university, discovered the Royal Air Force Flying Club, and became an RAF pilot — something he describes as almost impossibly unlikely for someone with his background. Then he joined the airlines. And hated it. He calls commercial flying "like being a bus driver" — rigidly routed, waiting to get home, doing it for the paycheck and nothing else. When he discovered the Landmark Forum and realized he could make a real difference with people, he was offered the top role in UK aviation: flying long-haul 747-400s out of Heathrow for British Airways. At the same time, he was offered a job starting at the bottom in personal development work — with a 75% pay cut. He took the pay cut. On this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, Will Steel — now a business coach, author of Free to Lead, and host of the Free to Lead podcast — talks with Lori Saitz about the values he was raised with, the career pivots that looked like madness from the outside, and the core problem he now spends his days solving: business owners who are working 65-75 hours a week, trapped inside their own companies, unable to delegate, and wondering why the business is not growing. He also shares the practical tool he uses to help clients get their time back, the story of a car body shop owner who went from chasing $2.5M to landing a $23.5M acquisition offer, and why authenticity is not a feeling — it is a practice of catching yourself being inauthentic and telling the truth about it. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: [00:00] Will calls in from Costa Rica, about to go surfing after this [01:30] The values he was raised with — and delivering milk at three years old in Yorkshire [04:00] His mother's 40-year milk round and what his parents built from nothing [06:00] Hard work vs. working smart: how his thinking evolved [08:30] The car body shop owner who went from $2.5M to $23.5M in 12 months [11:00] The unlikely career path: stonemason, engineer, university, RAF pilot [14:00] Joining the airlines — and why it felt like being a bus driver [15:30] The Landmark Forum, the British Airways offer, and the 75% pay cut decision [18:00] "You can't get enough of what you don't really want" [20:00] Why business owners get stuck in the doing, and what it costs them [23:00] The 15-minute time audit tool that reveals where the hours actually go [25:00] The architect who spent 7.5 hours a week driving kids to school — and got it all back [27:00] Delegation done right: pay for outcomes, not doing [31:00] What the Saudi Arabia pharmaceutical executive learned about his own communication [32:00] Authentic leadership: it is not a feeling, it is a practice [34:00] Rock 'n' Roll Star by Oasis — and why Will almost became a singer instead [36:30] How to reach Will: willsteel.com | Book: Free to Lead | Podcast: Free to Lead Guest Bio: Will Steel grew up in rural Yorkshire, England, in a family built on work ethic and honesty. His mother ran a milk delivery round for 40 years to cover household expenses while his father worked in a tractor factory. Will worked alongside a stonemason from age 12, completed dual engineering apprenticeships, earned a degree in electronic engineering, and discovered flying through his university's Royal Air Force squadron. He became an RAF pilot, joined commercial aviation, and then walked away from a British Airways 747 captain position to pursue work in personal development after attending the Landmark Forum. He has since spent 27 years coaching business owners and leading large-format programs across industries, helping them identify where they are stuck, recover their time, and grow their businesses by working less hours while generating substantially more. He is the author of Free to Lead and hosts a podcast of the same name. Connect with Will Steel: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/will-steel-business-coach-high-performance-transformation/ Website: willsteel.com Book: Free to Lead About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    You Get Paid for This? with Will Steel

  7. Jun 25

    She Woke Up Angry She Survived with Candice Van Dertholen

    Candice Van Dertholen did not arrive at her work in energy healing by reading about it. She lived through it. In this episode of Fine is a 4-Letter Word, host Lori Saitz sits down with energy practitioner Candice Van Dertholen for an unflinching conversation about single parenthood at 22, a Texas maximum security prison career she stumbled into out of financial desperation, an abusive marriage that escalated into a violent car ride with her children in the backseat, and the night she nearly took her own life — waking up in a hospital bed furious that she was still alive. From Joyce Meyer's Battlefield of the Mind on a hospital nightstand to affirmations she wrote thousands of times before she even knew what affirmations were, Candice traces the slow, unglamorous, piece-by-piece rebuilding that took two years before she felt like herself again. She also shares the complicated grief of finding out both ex-husbands had died within the same year, and why disenfranchised grief rarely gets the space it deserves. Now a practitioner who holds space for others in those same pivotal moments, Candice talks about why self-sabotage is almost always a story, why money in alignment multiplies, and what happens when we finally stop running from the relationship with ourselves. Listen on all platforms: Search "Fine is a 4-Letter Word" on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Subscribe so you never miss an episode. Timestamps: [00:00] Introductions — Candice and Lori on mutual friend Chris Schembra and life in Charlotte[01:45] The values she was raised with: personal integrity and the discipline of non-judgment[03:00] Growing up between two worlds — her mother's nursing work with terminally ill children[06:00] Her mother's unrecognized PTSD and the compassion Candice finally found, decades later[08:30] Becoming a single parent at 22 and the judgment she faced in Texas[09:45] The unexpected detour: corrections officer at a Texas Level 5 max security prison[13:00] The abusive marriage — how familiar energy patterns kept her from seeing the signs[15:30] The violent car incident that involved her children and set off a CPS investigation[18:30] The night she nearly took her life and the hospital room that changed everything[20:00] The books, therapy, affirmations, and two-year rebuild that followed[22:00] Finding unexpected permission to leave through a hospital chaplain's words[24:00] Complex grief: losing both ex-husbands within a year[28:00] Burnout, 75 Hard, and the yoga studio that led her to energy healing[30:00] What to do when you feel stuck and unworthy of the next level[33:00] The song that gets her going: Ready or Not by Britt Nicole Guest Bio: Candice Van Dertholen is an energy practitioner whose path to healing work was forged through personal experience. A single mother of three from a young age, she has navigated poverty, domestic abuse, correctional work, burnout, and near-fatal crisis to arrive at a practice centered on helping others break the self-sabotaging patterns that keep them from the next version of themselves. She works with clients in pivotal transition moments and offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who cannot afford standard rates. She found her work in energy healing through a yoga studio in Virginia, where she met her first practitioner after years of seeking the missing piece in her healing journey. She and her husband are military family who have relocated multiple times across the US. Connect with Candice: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/candicevandertholen/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/candice_elizabeth.co/ Candice also offers pay-it-forward sessions for those who need support but are working with limited means. About the Show: Fine Is a 4-Letter Word is the show for leaders who are tired of pretending everything is okay. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests who get honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage. New episodes every week. Subscribe so you never miss an episode, and if this conversation hit home, leave a review. It helps more leaders find the show.

    She Woke Up Angry She Survived with Candice Van Dertholen

  8. Jun 18

    17 Years in a Toxic Marriage with Everte Farnell

    Everte Farnell spent seventeen years married to a partner he now believes had borderline personality disorder, enduring verbal, emotional, and eventually physical abuse before everything came to a head in his own kitchen. In this conversation, he opens up about why men rarely report abuse, what changed the night his daughter stepped in, and how he rebuilt his health, his confidence, and his life from the ground up. What You'll Learn Why a majority of domestic abuse incidents involve female aggression toward male partners, and why almost none of it gets reportedHow borderline personality traits can drive a partner to undermine the people closest to them out of fear of abandonmentWhat it actually took for Everett to leave a marriage he had stayed in for years out of fear and outdated research about kids and divorceHow losing over 100 pounds became part of Everett's recovery from years of stress eating and undiagnosed sleep apneaWhy filing for a protective order as a man can come with its own uphill battle in the legal systemHow Everett went from believing the world was an emotional hellscape to seeing it as full of opportunity Guest Bio Everte Farnell grew up in the small town of Umatilla, Florida, and built a career as an entrepreneur, including scaling a roofing company to ten times its weekly sales in under sixteen months. After surviving a seventeen-year marriage marked by abuse, he rebuilt his life, lost over 100 pounds, and remarried into what he describes as the healthiest relationship of his life. He now shares his story to help others recognize and talk about abuse that often goes unreported. TIMESTAMPS 00:00 — Introduction and Everett's background growing up in rural Florida 04:00 — The toxic beliefs about money Everett had to unlearn 06:00 — How Everett rewired disempowering beliefs over time 13:00 — Living with smiling depression and undiagnosed sleep apnea 14:00 — Seventeen years married to a partner with borderline traits 20:00 — Why Everett stayed longer than he should have 25:00 — The night everything changed in the kitchen 28:00 — The truth about domestic abuse against men 31:00 — How Everett became more empathetic and rebuilt his life Connect with Everte Farnell: Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/everte-farnell-aa77556/ Website: https://evertefarnell.com/ About the Show Fine is a 4-Letter Word is a podcast about what happens when people stop pretending everything is fine and start telling the truth about what they are really going through. Host Lori Saitz brings on guests for honest conversations about the moments that changed everything. Subscribe so you never miss a conversation that might change how you see your own story.

    17 Years in a Toxic Marriage with Everte Farnell
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5
out of 5
32 Ratings

About

"Fine" is a lie leaders tell themselves — and it costs them their people, their culture, and their impact. Every episode, a leader gets honest about what it really takes to lead with empathy, vulnerability, gratitude, and courage… especially when everything isn’t fine. We're sharing how human connection drives innovation, retention, profitability and ultimately, legacy. I trust something in this conversation will stay with you. One thing’s for sure… you’ll never hear—or say—the word “fine” in the same way again.

Information

  • Creator
    Lori Saitz
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    288
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Lori Saitz
  • Show Website
    FINE is a 4-Letter Word

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