Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship

Nina Badzin
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Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship is a top 1% podcast about the friendship issues you probably think about but never say out loud. Whether you've agonized over a text, wondered why you're always the one reaching out, or found yourself drifting away from an old friend—this show gets it and we're here to discuss it all. Note-- these are conversations, not classic interviews. "Dear Nina" is hosted by longtime friendship advice columnist Nina Badzin, and every episode digs into the messy, meaningful, and sometimes maddening questions adults don't always feel safe asking. How do you make real friends as an adult? How do you handle a one-sided friendship? Should you salvage a friendship that's fading or let it be? How do you kindly turn down an acquaintance who wants to be closer, but you're just not feeling the same chemistry? We talk about being the single friend in a coupled-up world, navigating friendship after divorce, the grief of losing a friend to illness or a falling out, and what it means to be included in a friend group but still not quite feel like you belong—whether that's happening to you or to your kid. And yes, we talk about what happens when your kids used to be good friends and now can't stand each other. (It's a whole thing.) Nina has been writing about adult friendship for over a decade, and her advice has been featured in NPR, Real Simple Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, The Guardian, Time Magazine, The Skimm, and more. Each episode draws from real listener letters (hence "Dear Nina"), relatable dilemmas, and thoughtful guests. Every episode leaves room for the fact that there are no perfect answers. There's only real talk here, a lot of warmth, and the reminder that if you're overthinking your friendships, you're probably just someone who cares deeply about the people in your life. That's a good thing. Social connections MATTER! Let's talk about it. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO !! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️  Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪  Ask an anonymous friendship question 📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

  1. #187 - How ADHD Affects Adult Friendships: For People With ADHD and Their Friends (Cate Osborn and Erik Gude)

    1D AGO

    #187 - How ADHD Affects Adult Friendships: For People With ADHD and Their Friends (Cate Osborn and Erik Gude)

    The Friendship Side of ADHD We Don’t Talk About Enough ADHD is getting more attention right now, but one part of the conversation often gets overlooked: how ADHD affects adult friendships for the person with ADHD and for that person's friends. To learn more, I spoke with Cate Osborn and Erik Gude, the duo behind the podcast Catie and Erik’s Infinite Quest: An ADHD Adventure and co-authors of the new book, The ADHD Field Guide for Adults. We discussed the friendship side of ADHD—especially the gap between caring deeply about people and actually managing the follow-through that friendship requires. We also talked about why making friends can feel easy (for some people with ADHD) while keeping them can feel much harder; how executive dysfunction affects things like reaching out, planning ahead, remembering important details, and staying present in conversation; and why “if they wanted to, they would” is often too simplistic when ADHD is involved. This conversation is for both people with ADHD navigating friendship and the friends who want to better understand them. Cate and Erik make a strong case for both sides: more compassion from neurotypical friends, and more responsibility from people with ADHD to build systems that help them show up well in relationships. It’s an honest, practical conversation about communication, rejection sensitivity, misunderstanding, and what it takes to create friendships that are both more realistic and more resilient. HIGHLIGHTS: How executive dysfunction affects texting back, planning, remembering, and following throughWhy reaching out is such a loaded issue in adult friendshipsThe difference between intention and behavior in ADHDHow ADHD can affect conversation styles, including interrupting and anecdotal communicationWhat rejection sensitivity is and how it shapes friendshipsWhy shame can make it even harder to reconnect after time passesThe kinds of systems and structures that can help people with ADHD be better friends (and why those systems will be different for every person with ADHD)Why it matters to ask for what you need instead of testing your friendshipsHow to tell the difference between a friendship problem and a simple difference in communication style  MEET CATE OSBORN & ERIK GUDE CATE OSBORN, along with Erik Gude, is an educator and advocate for people with ADHD. She is the host of Sorry I Missed This on Understood.org, which focuses on ADHD’s impact on relationships, communication, and intimacy, and the cohost of Catie and Erik’s Infinite Quest: An ADHD Adventure. A certified sex educator, she is the advisor to Playboy for her expertise in the intersection of intimacy and neurodiversity. Her work has also appeared in Cosmopolitan, The New York Times, GQ, HuffPost, and other outlets. Find out more at Catieosaurus.com. Follow Cate on TikTok and Instagram @catieosaurus. ERIK GUDE, along with Cate Osborn, is an educator and advocate for people with ADHD. He cohosts Catie and Erik’s Infinite Quest: An ADHD Adventure and, with Cate Osborn, and frequently hosts panels about the intersection of ADHD and gaming at conventions, including DragonCon, Emerald City Comic Con, GenCon, MomoCon, and San Diego Comic-Con. Erik’s ADHD Crafting Challenge was a huge success on TikTok with over 20 million views. A former cook, he is now a prop maker and fabricator at the legendary Fonco Studios. Follow him on TikTok and Instagram @HeyGude. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO !! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️  Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪  Ask an anonymous friendship question 📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here. Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    54 min
  2. #186 - The Friend Who Copies You: Flattering or Frustrating? (Candace Ourisman)

    MAR 1

    #186 - The Friend Who Copies You: Flattering or Frustrating? (Candace Ourisman)

    We're unpacking a surprisingly charged friendship dilemma I answered for Real Simple magazine: How do you handle a longtime friend who copies everything you wear and do—outfits, home decor, and more—and doesn't mention the inspiration? She just shows up in her life as the mirror image of your choices? When I answered the letter for Real Simple, I side-stepped the fashion elements of the question because I'm not a fashion-forward person, at all. I stuck to wondering why the letter write would let the issue fester for 15 years. To help me address the parts I missed and even expand the conversation to friends who ask you to work for free AND friends who cannot give you a direct compliment, I’m joined by Candace Ourisman, creative director, brand consultant, and founder of Secretly Fancy. Candace lives in the world of personal style and taste! We talk about why this situation of being copied can feel flattering to some people and suffocating to others, and how oftentimes it depends on how the request for resources is addressed. We get honest about the part nobody wants to admit: sometimes the feeling of being copied isn’t about the item or the idea—it’s about what’s missing underneath it (acknowledgment, appreciation, and basic communication). In this episode, we get into: When copying feels like connection vs. when it feels like your identity is being erasedWhat to do when something has bothered you for years in a friendship—and you’ve never said a word (as I addressed in the magazine)Where “friends don’t gatekeep” is true . . . and where it’s not the full storyThe tricky overlap between friendship + expertise: when a friend is asking for “quick help” and when they’re asking for unpaid labor. I dug out the 2015 question I answered on this exact issue. It's probably a bit dated now, but I stand by the sentiment of my advice.  Meet Candace Ourisman Candace Ourisman is a creative director, brand consultant, and gifting expert based in Washington DC. She founded Secretly Fancy in 2009, a lifestyle platform that blends fashion, home and hosting with a distinctly playful point of view. Candace is known for curating immersive, high-touch experiences, from designer trunk shows and intimate salons to editorial-driven events, bringing together luxury brands, tastemakers, and community. Her work and perspective have been featured in The New York Times, The Washington Post, New York Magazine’s The Cut, Washingtonian, Yahoo Finance, and more. Find her on Instagram: @secretlyfancy ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO !! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️  Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪  Ask an anonymous friendship question 📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here. Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    33 min
  3. #185 - When Career Success Strains Your Friendships (Dr. Kimberly Horn)

    FEB 22

    #185 - When Career Success Strains Your Friendships (Dr. Kimberly Horn)

    Today we're talking about a specific and underexplored friendship challenge: what happens to your social life as your career takes off. We get right to the heart of something many ambitious women feel but rarely say out loud — that they appear socially rich on the outside while feeling quietly disconnected on the inside. We discuss why a full calendar of networking chats isn't the same as genuine connection, and how competence can become a cloak that makes others assume you don't need support. I’m joined by Dr. Kimberly Horn, an internationally recognized research psychologist, professor, and public health scientist, and the author of Friends Matter for Life: Harnessing the Eight Tenets of Dynamic Friendship. Kimberly studies friendship through a public health lens, and she’s also lived what she teaches: the higher she rose professionally, the smaller (and trickier) her social landscape became. We talk about common friendship traps for high achieving women, how success can make relationships feel murkier (hello, “real friend” vs. “deal friend”), and other issues like jealously and lopsided friendships. In this episode, we get into: Why career success can shrink your friend circle (even when you don’t want it to)The “socially rich, internally disconnected” feelingHow being “too busy” (and saying it out loud) can train people to stop inviting youThe optimization trap: why we cancel a friend walk 4 times, but never cancel the draining meetingThe comparison trap: how jealousy shows up in friendships (and why it’s normal)A concept I loved: co-celebration—and why celebrating others actually helps your brainThe over-functioning trap: when competence turns into caretaking and then into resentmentWhat “reciprocity” actually looks like in real adult friendships (hint: not 50/50, but not forever lopsided)The three options when a friendship feels “askew”Why some friendships fade without drama, and why that doesn’t mean they weren’t meaningful Practical takeaways you can try immediately: The 2-2-1 ritual: 2 texts, 2 calls, 1 in-person touchpoint each week (small, doable, and powerful)Safeguard your energy: not everyone gets full access to your calendar (this one is hard for me too)If friendship has started to feel like an “extra” you’ll get to someday, I hope this conversation helps you treat it like what it actually is: a health habit and a life support system. Meet Dr. Kimberly Horn Dr. Kimberly Horn is an internationally recognized research psychologist, professor, and public health scientist whose work bridges science and soul to improve human well-being. With nearly three decades of experience and more than 160 scientific publications on addiction recovery, and physical and emotional well-being across the lifespan, she is dedicated to helping people live healthier, more fulfilling lives. At the heart of her work is a simple truth: meaningful connection is a powerful health intervention. Her new book, Friends Matter, For Life: Harnessing the 8 Tenets of Dynamic Friendship—endorsed by bestselling author Mel Robbins—confronts the public health crisis of loneliness, exploring friendship as its antidote. It offers a practical path forward—rooted in research—for navigating modern friendship and reclaiming connection. Her insights have been featured by NPR, CNN, ABC, SELF, Cosmopolitan, Vogue, Mashable, Newsweek, The New York Times, TIME, USA Today, and Psychology Today. Kimberly is known for translating complex science into practical, relatable guidance for daily living. To learn more, follow Dr. Horn on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, or visit her website. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question 📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    29 min
  4. #184 - Socially Connected, Emotionally Unsettled: The Friendship Paradox in Your 20s (Dr. Jeffrey Hall)

    FEB 15

    #184 - Socially Connected, Emotionally Unsettled: The Friendship Paradox in Your 20s (Dr. Jeffrey Hall)

    Have you ever looked at your life and thought: I have friends. I’m doing things. I’m not isolated… so why do I still feel unsettled and maybe even lonely? This week’s guest is Dr. Jeffrey Hall (and yes, I was awkwardly a bit of a fan girl for this one). Dr. Hall is a professor and department chair of Communication Studies at the University of Kansas, where he directs the Relationships and Technology Lab. He’s the author of Relating Through Technology and The Social Biome, has written for The Wall Street Journal, and if you’ve read basically any big article about friendship over the last several years, you’ve probably seen his research quoted. You may know Dr. Hall best for his well-known findings on how long it actually takes to become close friends. We don’t get into the exact numbers in the conversation, so here they are: about 200 hours of shared time to become close friends, 80–100 hours for a solid friendship, and 40–60 hours for a casual one. If that feels like a lot, that’s the point. It explains why friendship can feel slow even when you’re “doing everything right.” But the heart of this episode is Dr. Hall's newer work from the American Friendship Project, research on what he calls the Loneliness and Connection Paradox. In the age range known as “emerging adulthood” (ages 18–30), people are often very connected--more friends, more touchpoints, more socializing than they’ll have later in adulthood--and yet they can still feel emotionally unsettled and lonely. That paradox isn’t limited to 20-somethings. Any season of rapid change can bring it on: moving, starting a new job, ending a relationship, divorce, kids leaving home, rebuilding a life, starting over. If you (or someone you love) is in a "season" where friendships feel shaky, slower than you want them to be, or weirdly unsatisfying even though you have a social life, this episode is for you. In this episode, we talk about: Why loneliness isn’t always a sign something is wrong — sometimes it’s a healthy signal that you want more connectionHow major life transitions disrupt our sense of social stabilityWhy women may experience the loneliness-and-connection tension more intenselyThe role of expectations in friendship — and why “high standards” can be both a strength and a stressorA concept I loved: ontological security — that settled feeling when life stops churning and friendships feel more stableA surprising insight about social media: it may be less about platforms causing poor wellbeing and more about people turning to them when they’re already strugglingAnd what Dr. Hall is studying next — including research suggesting that feeling socially connected today can actually give you more energy tomorrow Meet Dr. Jeffrey Hall: Jeffrey Hall is a professor and department chair of communication studies at the University of Kansas, where he is the director of the Relationships and Technology Lab. He is the author of Relating Through Technology and The Social Biome, and has written for the Wall Street Journal.  ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question EMAIL: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    39 min
  5. #183 - Are You Mad at Me? Friendship Anxiety and the Need for Validation (with Meg Josephson)

    FEB 8

    #183 - Are You Mad at Me? Friendship Anxiety and the Need for Validation (with Meg Josephson)

    If you tend to assume someone’s upset with you when their tone shifts even slightly, when they don’t text back right away, or when you notice the smallest change in their availability, this episode is for you. And if you have a friend who is always asking, "Are you mad at me?" or assuming you're upset when you're simply living your life, then this episode will help you, too. I’m joined by licensed psychotherapist Meg Josephson, author of Are You Mad at Me?: How to Stop Focusing on What Others Think and Start Living for You. We spoke about people pleasing, anxiety in friendships, and that constant low-level worry so many of us carry: Did I say the wrong thing? Did I mess something up? Am I in trouble? Meg explains why people pleasing isn’t a personality trait or a weakness—it’s a survival response called fawning. A lot of us learned it early on as a way to stay safe, liked, and connected. The problem is that in adulthood, it turns into overthinking, over-apologizing, and a constant focus on how we’re being perceived, including in our friendships. It can very exhausting to live this way, and also tiresome for the friends who have to constantly assure you "everything's OK."  In this episode, we talk about: Why you can’t actually control how other people see you, no matter how carefully you tryWhat the fawn response is and how it shows up in adult friendshipsHow people pleasing leads to anxiety, burnout, and quiet resentmentThe difference between reassurance-seeking and real emotional connectionWhy constantly needing reassurance can be hard on friendshipsHow growing up around criticism or gossip can make you feel perpetually judgedFinding the balance between showing up for people and over-functioningWhy resentment is a signal worth paying attention toA practical mindfulness tool for interrupting anxiety spiralsHow social media makes people pleasing worseLearning how to tolerate discomfort without immediately fixing it Meet Meg Josephson: Meg Josephson, LCSW, is a licensed psychotherapist. In her private practice, she specializes in trauma-informed care through a compassion-focused lens. She holds a Master of Social Work from Columbia University, and she is a certified meditation teacher through the Nalanda Institute. Meg also shares accessible insights via her social media platforms, reaching over five hundred thousand followers. Find Meg on Instagram at @megjosephson. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    41 min
  6. #182 - Three Phrases That Help When a Friend Is Experiencing Loss (with Shelby Forsythia)

    FEB 1

    #182 - Three Phrases That Help When a Friend Is Experiencing Loss (with Shelby Forsythia)

    Knowing how to show up for a friend in grief can feel overwhelming. We want to say the right thing, we don’t want to make it worse—and too often, that fear leads to silence. This episode is about finding words that help, not harm, and about staying connected when a friend’s life has been turned upside down. In this conversation, I’m joined by grief coach and author Shelby Forsythia, whose work centers on helping people navigate loss of all kinds—not only death, but also divorce, diagnosis, estrangement, friendship breakups, and other life-altering transitions. Shelby has spent nearly a decade working with grieving people, and what she offers here is incredibly practical, compassionate, and grounding. Rather than focusing on endless lists of “what not to say,” Shelby shares language we can use—simple, human phrases that help friendships survive the hardest moments. Shelby's newest book, Of Course I'm Here Right Now: Three Actually Helpful Things to Say to Someone Grieving, is written for the people who want to support grievers—friends, family members, coworkers, and anyone who finds themselves walking alongside someone in pain. IN THIS EPISODE, WE TALK ABOUT: The three stories most grieving people tell themselves, and how to recognize which one your friend is living inWhy the loss of friendships after a major loss can be just as painful as the loss itselfHow to support someone without trying to fix or reframe their griefWhy saying the name of the person who died often feels comforting, not upsettingHow to show up for non-death grief, including divorce, estrangement, and friendship lossWhy it’s okay—and often necessary—to literally put “check in on my friend” in your calendar Meet Shelby: Shelby Forsythia (she/her) is a grief coach, three time author, and podcast host. In 2020, she founded Life After Loss Academy, an online course and community that has helped dozens of grievers grow and find their way after death, divorce, diagnosis, and other major life transitions. Following her mother’s death in 2013, Shelby began calling herself a “student of grief” and now devotes her days to reading, writing, and speaking about loss. Through a combination of mindfulness tools and intuitive, open-ended questions, she guides her clients to welcome grief as a teacher and create meaningful lives that honor and include the heartbreaks they’ve faced. Her work has been featured in Huffington Post, Bustle, and The Oprah Magazine. Find Shelby: Website | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | TikTok   ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    37 min
  7. #181 - Exclusion and the Power to Build New Friendships (with Amy Weatherly)

    JAN 18

    #181 - Exclusion and the Power to Build New Friendships (with Amy Weatherly)

    This week’s episode is an expansion to last week’s conversation with Dr. Noelle Santorelli about relational aggression, belonging vs. inclusion, and “mean mom groups.” The focus this week shifts from spotting unhealthy dynamics to the next (very hard) question: What should you do after you realize you’ve been excluded by the people you thought were your friends? Bestselling author Amy Weatherly returns with a mix of empathy and tough love, reminding us that adult friendship is rarely cut-and-dry. Sometimes the table truly only held four for that event. And sometimes, those people simply aren’t your people. Either way, Amy’s message is clear: you have more power than you think. Together, Amy and I unpack the gray areas of adult friendship and how popular online memes can be contradictory (“There's always room for everyone!” vs. “Protect your peace!”). We discuss why group-chasing usually backfires and how to build connection one brave invitation at a time. In this episode, we talk about: Why adult friendship isn’t “everyone gets invited” the way it is in childhoodThe difference between "a bad heart" and a bad momentHow labeling people as “mean” or “toxic” can keep you stuckWhy it’s usually better to look for a friend, not a groupHow confidence (and self-reflection) changes everythingThe difficult reality: rejection is part of making friendsBuilding your own “table” instead of trying to squeeze into someone else’sAmy: “The secret to being liked is to like other people.”Amy: “Friendship will favor those who are bold enough to be rejected.”  Links Mentioned:  Last week’s episode (#180) with Dr. Noelle Santorelli on relational aggression and navigating exclusionA version of the Ashley Tisdale story on Today.comNina’s prior episode (#86) featuring Amy + JessAmy's “go where the love is” friendship poem Nina referenced, which can be found on Amy and Jess's Facebook group, Sister I am With You.Dr. Janice McCabe in the NYT on "friendship markets" Meet Amy Weatherly: Amy Weatherly is the co-founder with Jess Johnston of the viral page all about friendship, Sister, I Am with You. They coauthored the new book, Here For It and the Wall Street Journal bestseller I’ll Be There (But I’ll Be Wearing Sweatpants)  Find Sister I am With You on: Facebook, Instagram, and on their Website. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    32 min
  8. #180 - Mean Mom Culture, Relational Aggression, and Belonging vs. Inclusion (with Dr. Noelle Santorelli)

    JAN 11

    #180 - Mean Mom Culture, Relational Aggression, and Belonging vs. Inclusion (with Dr. Noelle Santorelli)

    This week I have a conversation with clinical psychologist Dr. Noelle Santorelli about belonging vs. (forced) inclusion, "mean mom" culture, and relational aggression. And guess what? I recorded this interview with Dr. Santorelli BEFORE the Ashley Tisdale “toxic mom group” article from The Cut was making its way around the internet. I had to re-record my intro to this episode because not addressing the article and the aftermath would have felt off considering our topic for this one.  In our discussion, Dr. Noelle and I spoke about what’s really going on when adult friendships start to feel like middle school. We unpack the difference between actual cruelty versus simply not wanting to be friends anymore (those are not the same thing), and why covert behavior is so confusing and painful to experience. Dr. Noelle gives language to things many of us have felt but can’t quite name. She also offers some much-needed reminders to pause, regulate, and stop assuming every social slight has one clear explanation. We talk about: What relational aggression actually is and how it sometimes shows up quietlyBackhanded compliments, hot-and-cold behavior, gossip, exclusion, and “strategic withholding”The difference between being included and truly belonging (and why forced inclusion often backfires) Friendship love bombing and why we should slow down in new friendships One line from this episode that really stuck with me: “Forced inclusion creates fragile belonging.” I also share a very real story about spiraling after getting no response in a group text—and how sometimes the answer isn’t “they’re being mean,” rather it's: “this wasn’t the right time, place, or audience.” My biggest takeaway: focus on patterns, not incidents, regulate before reacting, and ask yourself why you want into a group that might not actually feel safe or aligned. Links Mentioned: A version of the Ashley Tisdale story on Today.comDr. Santorelli's Mean Girl Mom Survival GuideJoin the Dear Nina Facebook Group Meet Dr. Noelle Santorelli: If you’ve ever found yourself deep in the drama of Mean Girls or Mean Girls in Motherhood (aka Mean Girl Moms), you’ve probably come across Dr. Noelle Santorelli on Instagram. A licensed clinical psychologist, Dr. Santorelli has spent the past 14 years in private practice and holds a position of adjunct faculty at Emory School of Medicine in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences. In her practice, she specializes in working with high-achieving women who’ve experienced early trauma or grew up in dysfunctional, toxic family environments—often with emotionally immature or narcissistic parents. She also has deep expertise in relational aggression across the lifespan, helping women navigate covert bullying from friends, family, and even the workplace. She helps break down the complexities of relational aggression, Mean Girl culture, and how to protect your peace in a world full of social landmines.  Find Dr. Santorelli on Instagram and TikTok at @drnoellesantorelli ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️ Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪 Ask an anonymous friendship question 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? **That’s probably here.** Thank you to our sponsor this week: THE SOCIAL DIALOGUE PODCAST. Find it anywhere you get your podcasts and YouTube! Special thank you, as always, to assistant producer, Rebekah Jacobs.

    56 min
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Dear Nina: Conversations About Friendship is a top 1% podcast about the friendship issues you probably think about but never say out loud. Whether you've agonized over a text, wondered why you're always the one reaching out, or found yourself drifting away from an old friend—this show gets it and we're here to discuss it all. Note-- these are conversations, not classic interviews. "Dear Nina" is hosted by longtime friendship advice columnist Nina Badzin, and every episode digs into the messy, meaningful, and sometimes maddening questions adults don't always feel safe asking. How do you make real friends as an adult? How do you handle a one-sided friendship? Should you salvage a friendship that's fading or let it be? How do you kindly turn down an acquaintance who wants to be closer, but you're just not feeling the same chemistry? We talk about being the single friend in a coupled-up world, navigating friendship after divorce, the grief of losing a friend to illness or a falling out, and what it means to be included in a friend group but still not quite feel like you belong—whether that's happening to you or to your kid. And yes, we talk about what happens when your kids used to be good friends and now can't stand each other. (It's a whole thing.) Nina has been writing about adult friendship for over a decade, and her advice has been featured in NPR, Real Simple Magazine, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, The Chicago Tribune, The Guardian, Time Magazine, The Skimm, and more. Each episode draws from real listener letters (hence "Dear Nina"), relatable dilemmas, and thoughtful guests. Every episode leaves room for the fact that there are no perfect answers. There's only real talk here, a lot of warmth, and the reminder that if you're overthinking your friendships, you're probably just someone who cares deeply about the people in your life. That's a good thing. Social connections MATTER! Let's talk about it. ALL THE DEAR NINA LINKS + CONTACT INFO !! Catch up on all Dear Nina episodes on Apple and Spotify 📢 How to promote your service, business, or book on Dear Nina 🎈 Celebrate your friend on the show by dedicating a week of episodes! 📱 Subscribe to my newsletter “Conversations About Friendship” on Substack ❤️  Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, & the Dear Nina Facebook group 📪  Ask an anonymous friendship question 📪 email: dearninapodcast@gmail.com 🔎 Want to work with me on your podcast, your friendships, or need another link? That’s probably here.

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