Sleeping Barber - A Marketing Podcast

Sleeping Barber

Ready to rethink business strategy and supercharge your marketing game? Join hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros as they break down big questions at the crossroads of strategy, marketing effectiveness, and creative impact. From real-world case studies to hot-off-the-press business news, each episode dives deep into how modern companies navigate complexity. Plus, interviews with global thought leaders bring you fresh insights and actionable strategies to drive growth and build unforgettable customer experiences. This is your backstage pass to smarter thinking and better business results.

  1. SBP 174: Hyper-Targeting Is Killing Growth. With Vince Simone

    12H AGO

    SBP 174: Hyper-Targeting Is Killing Growth. With Vince Simone

    Overview The promise of digital advertising was precision: right message, right person, right time. No waste. But here's the uncomfortable truth, while we've been obsessing over hyper-targeting, consumer behaviour has already shifted without us. 90% of Canadians now consume CTV. Less than 50% still have cable. And 60% of their time is spent on the open web, not walled gardens. The question isn't whether CTV matters. It's whether we're measuring it correctly, or optimizing ourselves into invisibility. About Vince is the Head of DSP Sales at Yahoo Canada, where he works closely with the country's top agencies and brands to achieve their marketing goals through Yahoo's advanced programmatic advertising platform. A 25+ year advertising veteran, Vince has deep expertise in programmatic, CTV, and data-driven media. He previously launched AdTheorent in the Canadian market and is an active voice in the Canadian digital advertising community through IAB Canada. LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/vincesimone Timestamps00:00 - Intro - The unification challenge for marketers 01:25 - Guest intro - Vince Simone, Yahoo 02:32 - What's different about this moment in CTV 04:05 - The evolution of CTV data - from freebie to foundational 06:04 - TV is now just "video" - the pipe goes everywhere 08:01 - Programmatic as the unifier - Samba partnership 10:01 - The cost waterfall problem - fraud, duplication, inefficiency 12:17 - What people misunderstand about DSPs (it's decisioning, not bidding) 13:37 - Buzzword that needs to die: "Hyper-target" 15:22 - The promise of digital vs. the reality of reach 17:05 - Reverse engineering the customer journey 18:52 - Is CTV actually about scale, not precision? 20:21 - The persona trap - seeing people as fractions of themselves 24:23 - Suppression lists vs. over-engineered targeting 29:07 - Consistency as the multiplier across linear, CTV, digital 31:18 - Dynamic creative optimization vs. many cuts 34:00 - The 60/40 split - CTV in no man's land 37:15 - The one metric to stop obsessing about: Last click 39:07 - How the best marketers layer MMMs, lift studies, and last click 42:10 - The "remove the logo" test for distinctiveness 44:22 - Over-optimizing before campaigns settle 46:00 - Dashboard updates vs. business data timing 46:56 - What excites Vince: AI agents, Netflix inventory, unified systems 49:20 - Where to find Vince Show LinksSleeping Barber Podcast: 8 Fundamentals of Effective Marketing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlJVEd9YXag&list=PL8Dcu1vikGN38ABGV4iuRQV1GmaAMvUSQ&index=1Yahoo DSP: https://www.yahooinc.com/our-solutionsIAB Data Label: https://iabtechlab.com/press-releases/iab-tech-lab-finalizes-data-transparency-standard-compliance-program-to-advance-data-collection-best-practicesANA Programmatic Transparency Benchmark https://www.ana.net/content/show/id/pr-2025-08-programmatictrans

    50 min
  2. SBP 173: The Sharp Cut - The Most Dangerous KPI in Marketing

    5D AGO

    SBP 173: The Sharp Cut - The Most Dangerous KPI in Marketing

    In this conversation, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley delve into the complexities of measuring ROI in marketing. They discuss common misconceptions about ROI, ROAS, and MER, emphasizing that these metrics often lead marketers to focus on short-term efficiency rather than long-term effectiveness. The duo highlights the importance of collaboration across teams to ensure that marketing promises align with operational capabilities, ultimately driving sustainable growth. They advocate for a shift in focus from mere ratios to understanding the broader implications of marketing investments on future cash flow and customer relationships. If you’re being measured purely on short-term efficiency metrics, this conversation will change how you think about growth. ROI isn’t a marketing number. It’s a team sport. Takeaways ROI is often misunderstood as a measure of efficiency rather than effectiveness.Chasing high ROI can lead to short-term thinking and limit growth.Marketing success requires collaboration across teams, not just within marketing.The promise to the customer must be memorable, valuable, and deliverable.Focusing solely on financial ratios can obscure the true health of a brand.Long-term ROI is built on consistent delivery of promises to customers.Marketing should be viewed as a growth driver, not a cost center.Incrementality is crucial to understanding the true impact of marketing efforts.Operational efficiency is key to fulfilling marketing promises.Winning in marketing is a team sport, requiring alignment across departments. Chapters 00:00 - Understanding ROI in Marketing 03:00 - The Dangers of Chasing High ROI 05:57 - The Importance of Team Collaboration 09:55 - The Promise to the Customer 11:58 - Shifting Focus from Ratios to Revenue Sources: Ambler, T. (2000). Marketing Metrics. Business Strategy Review, 11(2), 59-66.Binkley, M. (2024). 35 Factors that Affect Marketing ROI. Quatical Fractional Marketing Leadership.B2B Institute & WARC. (2024). Making a Promise to the Business Customer: Why Customer Promise Campaigns are Even More Effective in B2B than B2C. LinkedIn.Calgary Marketing Association & Stone-Olafson. (2024). Shaping Success: Alberta's Marketing Landscape and the Trends Influencing ROI.Duhigg, C. (2012). The Power of Habit: Why We Do What We Do in Life and Business. Random House.Kaushik, A. (2023). The Best Marketing ROI Formula: Incremental Net Profit ROI!. Occam's Razor.Martin, R., & B2B Institute. (2023). Making a Promise to...

    11 min
  3. SBP 172: The Barber's Brief - How can I communicate better with my mother?

    FEB 10

    SBP 172: The Barber's Brief - How can I communicate better with my mother?

    In this episode of Barbers Brief, Vassilis Douros and Marc Binkley discuss recent trends in marketing, including the impact of Super Bowl ads, Google's February 2026 core update, the rise of agentic AI, and a surprising increase in trust in advertising. They explore how these elements shape brand strategies and consumer behaviour, emphasizing the importance of relevance and quality in content creation. The episode concludes with a highlight of Anthropic's innovative Super Bowl ad, "How can I communicate better with my mother," which critiques the advertising model of competitors as they look to introduce ads. Key Takeaways: Super Bowl ads challenge the notion of digital targeting.Google's update favors local and relevant content over clickbait.Trust in advertising is increasing due to better quality ads.Brands must adapt to AI's evolving role in marketing.Investing in brand building is essential for long-term success.Mass reach through traditional media is still effective.Content should prioritize depth and relevance over volume.Marketers need to prepare for AI's impact on consumer interactions.Trust is built over time through consistent messaging.Anthropic's ad highlights the cultural stakes in AI branding. Timestamps / Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to Marketing Insights 01:10 - Super Bowl Ads: A Challenge to Digital Norms 04:35 - Google's February 2026 Update: A Shift in Content Strategy 08:27 - Preparing for Agentic AI: The Future of Brand Interaction 13:28 - Trust in Advertising: A Surprising Rise 17:59 - Ad of the Week: Anthropic's Bold Super Bowl Statement News Links: Flag on the Play: How the Super Bowl Breaks All the Advertising Rules https://www.adweek.com/brand-marketing/super-bowl-breaks-advertising-rules/ Google releases February 2026 Discover core update https://searchengineland.com/google-releases-discover-core-update-february-2026-468308 Preparing Your Brand for Agentic AI https://hbr.org/2026/03/preparing-your-brand-for-agentic-ai Title: Trust in advertising at its highest in five years Link: https://www.marketingweek.com/trust-advertising-five-year-high/ Title: Trust in advertising at its highest in five years Link: https://www.marketingweek.com/trust-advertising-five-year-high/ Ad of the week: How Can I Communicate Better With My Mother? / Anthropic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBSam25u8O4

    24 min
  4. SBP 171: The PostPod - Making Super Ads

    FEB 5

    SBP 171: The PostPod - Making Super Ads

    With the Big Game just days away, Marc and Vassilis unpack the biggest ideas from their recent conversation with Vanessa Chin (System1) — and what marketers should actually be watching for when the ads roll. This PostPod dives deeper into why emotion beats logic, why branding is still underused in creative, and how storytelling, distinctive assets, humour, and cultural context combine to create ads that work — not just on the Big Game stage, but all year long. If you’re watching the ads more closely than the game, this one’s for you. Key takeaways Distinctive brand assets are underleveraged - Logos alone are weak. Sonic cues, characters, colors, taglines, and product design work harder together — and compound over time.“Seven brand cues” isn’t as crazy as it sounds - When you consider logos, music, characters, colors, settings, taglines, and product shots, strong brands already do this — often subconsciously.Great ads balance art and commerce - If people love the ad but can’t remember the brand, you didn’t make advertising — you made entertainment.Storytelling still wins — but resolution matters - Negative emotion is fine if it resolves positively. Bait-and-switch storytelling erodes trust and memorability.Length matters more than platforms admit - The strongest emotional response happens between 20–40 seconds — despite the industry’s obsession with short formats.Humour works — when it fits the brand - Amusement and light schadenfreude outperform sadness, but humour must feel authentic and repeatable.Celebrities aren’t required - Strong characters and stories outperform star power when brand linkage is clear.Cultural references can accelerate emotion - They work best as context or setting — not as the idea itself — and when the product remains the hero.Consistency compounds-Rebranding for novelty breaks mental shortcuts. Growth comes from reinforcing memory, not resetting it. Chapters / Timestamps 0:00 — Post-Pod Setup & Big Game Context: Intro to the Post-Pod, why we’re watching the ads, and framing the conversation around Making Super Ads with Vanessa Chin (System1). 1:40 — First Reactions & What Stood Out: Initial reflections on the Vanessa conversation and why this episode landed — setting up the core themes. 2:05 — Distinctive Brand Assets & the “7 Brand Codes” Idea: Deep dive into brand codes beyond logos: jingles, characters, colours, taglines, product design — and why having a palette of assets matters across channels. 5:55 — Art vs Advertising: Why Branding Protects the Investment: The risk of making ads people love but can’t attribute to a brand — and where creative often breaks down. 7:54 — Storytelling, Emotion & Resolution: Why great ads tell focused stories, the danger of bait-and-switch emotion, and why negative emotion only works if it resolves positively. 9:41 — Length Matters More Than Platforms Admit: Why 20–40 seconds still delivers the strongest emotional impact — and how ultra-short formats can undermine memorability. 12:05 — Humour & the Emotion Palette: Why humour (amusement, light schadenfreude) often...

    23 min
  5. SBP 170: Making Super Ads. With Vanessa Chin.

    FEB 3

    SBP 170: Making Super Ads. With Vanessa Chin.

    Super Bowl ads cost ~$8M for 30 seconds. So what separates a legendary “Super Ad” from an expensive shrug? In this episode of The Sleeping Barber Podcast, Mark and Vassilis welcome back Vanessa Chin from System1 to break down what actually drives impact when the stakes are highest. You’ll learn how System1 measures emotion and brand recognition (Star, Spike, and Fluency ratings), why “more you feel, more you buy,” and how brands can avoid the Super Bowl trap: making something people love… but can’t attribute to the advertiser. Together, you’ll unpack four winning patterns behind the best Super Bowl work: Classic storytelling (tension + resolution)Distinctive brand assets (and why “7 brand codes” matters)Humor as the highest-performing emotionCultural references that celebrate vs. exploit If you’re watching the game for the ads (or running campaigns all year long), this one’s a masterclass in making creative that’s not just entertaining — but commercially effective. Enjoy the show! Key Takeaways: Super Bowl ads cost about $8 million for 30 seconds.Emotion is the best predictor of consumer behavior.Storytelling is crucial for effective advertising.Brands should use at least seven distinctive assets in ads.Humor drives positive emotional responses in ads.Cultural references can enhance emotional engagement.Consistency in branding is key for recognition.You don't need a celebrity to create a successful ad.Understanding your audience's emotions is vital.Dissecting ads can improve future marketing strategies. Timestamps / Chapters 00:00 - Introduction to Super Bowl Ads 02:28 - Understanding Ad Effectiveness Metrics 05:25 - The Power of Storytelling in Ads 10:47 - Brand Recognition and Consistency 17:11 - The Role of Humor in Advertising 23:03 - Cultural References in Advertising 30:05 - Key Takeaways for Marketers

    38 min
  6. SBP 169: The Sharp Cut - Personas, we have a problem.

    JAN 29

    SBP 169: The Sharp Cut - Personas, we have a problem.

    Welcome back to The Sharp Cut — where Marc and Vassilis take scissors to marketing’s biggest comfort blankets. This episode’s target: personas. Not “burn them all”… but the idea that personas are a valid operating system for audience strategy. Marc and V argue that personas don’t fail because they’re fictional — they fail because they pretend markets are stable, targetable, and neatly categorized, when real buying behaviour is context-driven, messy, and dynamic. They unpack why personas became popular (stakeholder comfort, platform narratives, proxy metrics), then bring in evidence — including an Adobe test where the “expected” persona audience underperformed an unexpected segment by 50%. The conclusion is blunt: personas are a story, not a strategy — and if you confuse the two, you’ll underreach, overfit, and misallocate budget. The alternative? Shift from identity to category entry points, need-states, broad reach, and experimentation — and use personas only as a creative communication layer after the real strategy is built. Key takeaways Personas aren’t dead — but they’re not a foundation. They can help internal alignment, but they shouldn’t drive budget.Context beats identity. People don’t buy because they “are” a persona; they buy due to situations, triggers, and barriers.Personas encourage exclusion. That’s dangerous when growth requires reaching more category buyers (especially light and ultra-light buyers).Markets are more similar than persona decks imply. The Ehrenberg-Bass “law of brand user profiles” suggests rival brand buyers often look alike; growth is about penetration, not “unicorn” profiles.Testing beats theorizing. The Adobe example shows how persona-led targeting can blind you to better-performing audiences.Privacy + platform automation should push you away from persona obsession. Your edge becomes positioning, reach, creative quality, and measurement — not “knowing Sarah.”Replace persona-led planning with: category entry points, need-states, barriers/motivations, creative territories, broad reach by default, and guardrail measurement. Chapters / Timestamps 00:00 — Welcome to The Sharp Cut: “Personas, we have a problem.” Why this topic matters right now. 01:10 — The “Underwear Crisis”: when a persona sounds smart but makes no decisions Why polished personas often collapse at decision time. 02:20 — The core myth: “If we can describe them, we can target them.” The promise of precision and why it’s so seductive. 04:25 — Persona theatre: why decks reward stories over strategy Checkbox segmentation, stakeholder comfort, and agency incentives. 05:00 — Evidence check: Adobe says the persona era is over The “inside-out” problem and why context drives outcomes. 06:10 — The 50% conversion wake-up call: testing beyond the persona How “sport lovers” beat the “correct” persona audience. 07:15 — Why personas persist: org design, proxy metrics, platform narratives, psychology Control feels good — even when it’s false. 09:10 — The marketing science critique: brand buyers aren’t that different Penetration, light buyers, and why “special customers” are overrated. 10:30 — Category entry points: what people actually buy for Identity vs situations, triggers, and motivations. 12:05 — “But B2B...

    20 min
  7. SBP 168: The Barber's Brief - Marketers beware! Less is not more.

    JAN 27

    SBP 168: The Barber's Brief - Marketers beware! Less is not more.

    In this week’s Barber’s Brief, Marcc and Vassili unpack four timely stories that cut to the heart of modern marketing leadership: strategy clarity, AI’s real role in organizations, and why going small in marketing is often the riskiest move of all. The conversation starts with a sharp diagnosis of “strategy anxiety”—the condition where everything is labelled a priority, trade-offs disappear, and teams are left busy but directionless. From there, they examine why many organizations are stuck using AI to make marketing cheaper, not more valuable, and why that mindset risks turning marketing into a disposable cost center rather than a strategic function. The episode then tackles the growing backlash against “less is more” marketing, drawing on effectiveness research that shows scale, reach, and creative boldness still matter—even in a world obsessed with efficiency dashboards. They close with Ad of the Week, spotlighting Petro-Canada’s “No Time to Hibernate” Winter Games campaign, breaking down why distinctive assets, emotion, and long-term creative commitment still outperform cautious, forgettable work. If you’re feeling pulled in too many directions, overwhelmed by priorities, or pressured to optimize your way to growth, this episode offers a much-needed reset. Key Takeaways If everything is a priority, you don’t have a strategy.Strategy requires exclusion. Anxiety fills the gap when leaders avoid hard choices.Activity is not clarity. More dashboards, roadmaps, and urgency don’t replace direction—they often create noise.AI used only for efficiency shrinks marketing’s importance. Making content cheaper doesn’t make marketing more valuable or more defensible.AI is moving from experimentation to infrastructure.Organizations that fail to move from tools to orchestration risk building tech debt, not advantage.“Less is more” is often a trap.Small, fragmented marketing doesn’t reduce risk—it guarantees invisibility.Reach, scale, and salience still drive growth. Efficiency metrics are useful, but they don’t replace business outcomes.Brand vs. performance is a false dichotomy. Every marketing activity builds the brand—customers experience one system, not silos.Great campaigns compound over time. Distinctive assets and creative consistency matter more than short-term optimization. Chapters / Timestamps 00:00 – Welcome to the Barber’s Brief - What caught Marc and V’s attention this week. 01:00 – Strategy Anxiety: When Everything Is a Priority - Why lack of focus creates burnout, reactivity, and execution without confidence. 04:45 – Strategic Drift and the Cost of Avoiding Hard Choices - Why exclusion matters as much as inclusion in real strategy. 06:40 – AI, Davos, and the Efficiency Trap - Why using AI to do “more with less” risks shrinking marketing’s role. 09:15 – From AI Pilots to Enterprise Infrastructure - How AI becomes tech debt without orchestration and outcomes. 11:45 – Less Is Not More: Why Marketing Needs Scale - Why cautious, fragmented spend often delivers the worst ROI. 14:45 – Efficiency Metrics vs. Business Outcomes - The danger of optimizing dashboards instead of growth. 16:30 – Brand vs. Performance: A False...

    25 min
  8. SBP 167: The PostPod - The Only Growth Lever Marketers Control.

    JAN 22

    SBP 167: The PostPod - The Only Growth Lever Marketers Control.

    In this post-pod discussion, Vassilis and Marc unpack the biggest ideas from their recent conversation with Dale Harrison on The Only Growth Lever Marketers Control — and what those ideas actually mean for marketers in practice. They explore a critical but often uncomfortable distinction: revenue growth is not the same as real growth. When categories expand, tides rise for everyone — but that doesn’t mean brands are gaining market share, competitive advantage, or long-term resilience. This episode digs into why marketers over-index on revenue and ROI, why market share is harder (but more honest) to use as a growth signal, and why a huge part of marketing’s job is simply not screwing things up. The discussion also reframes advertising as both an offensive and defensive investment, emphasizing the role of creative effectiveness, mental availability, and protecting existing demand — not just chasing new sales. If you’ve ever been told to “just grow revenue” without clarity on what growth actually means, this episode is for you. Topics covered: Why revenue growth can mask stagnationMarket share vs. revenue: why they’re not interchangeableThe danger of confusing category growth with brand growthWhy marketers are often rewarded for being “in the right boat at the right time”Advertising as demand protection, not just demand creationThe three levers marketers actually have (and why they’re mostly equalized)Creative effectiveness as the only real multiplierWhy “don’t screw it up” is an underrated marketing strategyHow to think about growth accelerants and external shocksWhy long-term success depends on solving for the 95%, not the 5% Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction 02:00 – Revenue vs. Growth: The Core Misunderstanding - Why increasing revenue doesn’t automatically mean a brand is growing — and why market share matters. 05:00 – Category Growth, Timing, and the Illusion of Marketing Genius - How external forces (COVID, category expansion, timing) create false signals of success. 08:30 – Market Share Is Hard (But More Honest) - Why market share is rarely reported, difficult to measure, and still the most truthful growth signal. 11:30 – Advertising as Protection, Not Just Growth - Why a major part of marketing’s job is maintaining demand and preventing decline. 14:30 – The Three Levers Marketers Actually Control - Spend, creative effectiveness, and media quality — and why none are silver bullets on their own. 17:00 – The Real Takeaway: Don’t Screw It Up - Creative quality, mental availability, and being ready when growth accelerants appear. 19:30 – Final Reflections and Close - What marketers should do differently on Monday morning. 19:25 – Final reflections and closing thoughts

    20 min
5
out of 5
8 Ratings

About

Ready to rethink business strategy and supercharge your marketing game? Join hosts Marc Binkley and Vassilis Douros as they break down big questions at the crossroads of strategy, marketing effectiveness, and creative impact. From real-world case studies to hot-off-the-press business news, each episode dives deep into how modern companies navigate complexity. Plus, interviews with global thought leaders bring you fresh insights and actionable strategies to drive growth and build unforgettable customer experiences. This is your backstage pass to smarter thinking and better business results.

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