The Immortal Life of Agencies

Co:definery
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Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency? Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’. Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby. Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.

  1. MSQ's Executive Director: Growth in the ‘Goldilocks’ zone – Ben Rudman

    8H AGO

    MSQ's Executive Director: Growth in the ‘Goldilocks’ zone – Ben Rudman

    Today’s guest is Ben Rudman, Executive Director at MSQ, one of the fastest growing, private equity backed marketing services groups, positioning itself between the traditional holding companies and independent agencies. Ben shares why the agency model is at a pivotal moment, as AI accelerates the shift from selling time to selling outcomes, products and packaged services. He explains how MSQ has scaled to nearly 2,000 people while maintaining their entrepreneurial agility, and why client-centricity must be behavioural, not rhetorical. The conversation explores the so-called Goldilocks zone between scale and flexibility, the realities of working with procurement, and why agencies must align commercial models to client goals from the outset, rather than retrofit them later. With refreshing honesty, Ben reflects on what hasn’t yet been cracked, the talent challenges AI presents, and why creativity and ideas remain the industry’s enduring advantage. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:25] Scaling MSQ [05:11] Revenue beyond headcount [10:07] Uncertainty driving change [13:33] Aligning to outcomes [18:04] Commercial momentum model [22:50] Client centricity by design [25:51] Creating a Market of One [31:33] Building the AI backbone [33:57] Behaviour shapes culture [39:00] Charging for ideas MORE ABOUT BEN: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benrudman Website: msqpartners.com HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    42 min
  2. M+C Saatchi Group's Global CEO: When a client CMO leads an agency – Zaid Al-Qassab

    MAR 3

    M+C Saatchi Group's Global CEO: When a client CMO leads an agency – Zaid Al-Qassab

    Today’s guest is Zaid Al-Qassab, Global CEO of M+C Saatchi Group. Fascinatingly, having been client-side CMO with the likes of P&G, BT and Channel 4, this is his first agency role. So his rare perspective is gold dust. Zaid explains why agencies must stop talking to themselves and start truly understanding the complexity faced by modern CMOs – not least how the old brief-led model is being replaced by the need for orchestration. He shares how M+C Saatchi has repositioned itself around ‘Cultural Power’ and why that can – and should – be measurable. The conversation also explores AI, productisation and why agency leaders must make a stronger case for embracing a changing market. HIGHLIGHTS: [03:00] Agency navel gazing [06:28] Treating agencies as partners [07:47] Searching for a new model [11:14] Flexible orchestration [14:08] A former CMO’s advantage [17:32] The Goldilocks zone [22:22] Cultural Power as a proposition [30:35] AI as a democratizer [36:01] AI and the future of work [38:06] Three things that matter MORE ABOUT ZAID: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zaid-al-qassab HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    39 min
  3. Code and Theory's CCO: Raising the bar for customer experience – Craig Elimeliah

    FEB 24

    Code and Theory's CCO: Raising the bar for customer experience – Craig Elimeliah

    Today's guest is Craig Elimeliah, Chief Creative Officer at Code and Theory, sharing his passion for why technology and creativity must go hand in hand. In his view, clients have been carrying the burden of fragmentation for far too long. That’s why his role blends engineering, strategy and craft to help clients navigate modern complexity. The discussion also explores Stagwell’s orchestration platform, The Machine, and how it’s reshaping integration across the marketing lifecycle. And perhaps most provocatively, Craig challenges our industry’s obsession with scale. If bigger isn’t always better, then agility and systems thinking matter far more. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:29] Inseparable disciplines [04:28] Thinking like architects [07:35] Creativity as change [17:25] AI as creative accelerator [22:59] Platformisation of holdcos [26:14] Evolving business models [30:13] Agentic operating systems [36:05] Knowing what to automate [42:31] Mediocrity scales exponentially MORE ABOUT CRAIG: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/craigelimeliah Website: codeandtheory.com HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    47 min
  4. Rethink’s Global Chief Strategy Officer: Showing up with a point of view – Sean McDonald

    FEB 17

    Rethink’s Global Chief Strategy Officer: Showing up with a point of view – Sean McDonald

    Today’s episode features Sean McDonald, Global CSO and Partner at Rethink, exploring the power of belief. Sean’s built a reputation for candour, competitive ambition and an unwavering belief in setting the standard. But he hasn’t always led that way. He reflects on how letting go of the need to ‘win’ every meeting transformed his leadership and why discovering the answer matters more than having it. Following his journey from politics and public affairs into advertising, Sean unpacks the myth of the ‘all-knowing’ strategist, explains why strong opinions must be loosely held and shares how envy can raise standards. The conversation also looks ahead, exploring growth, independence and why agencies must commit to what they optimise for. HIGHLIGHTS [02:10] Bluntness with manners [06:22] Discovering over knowing [12:08] Cult of the hero [15:38] Competition and respect [20:32] Setting global standard [24:51] Have an opinion [29:00] The goal isn't growth [31:18] Making bets [33:21] Growth versus ‘good’ [38:00] Embracing the future MORE ABOUT SEAN: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/seanamcdonald HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    40 min
  5. Toptal’s Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing: Redefining on-demand talent – Christine Olivas

    FEB 10

    Toptal’s Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing: Redefining on-demand talent – Christine Olivas

    Today’s guest is Christine Olivas – Practice Director, Advertising & Brand Marketing at Toptal, the world's largest, fully remote workforce. Christine describes how on-demand talent has evolved from a stop-gap to a strategic growth lever for modern agencies, enabling them to build flexible teams that respond faster, protect margins and deliver stronger work. Drawing on her experience scaling on-demand teams globally, she unpacks how moving beyond rigid resourcing helps agencies handle new-business surges, access specialist expertise and reduce pressure on core teams. With an optimistic view of the future, Christine reflects on evolving workforce values, new career paths, and building agencies that are more human, resilient and fit for what comes next. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:33] A shifting workforce [05:03] Dynamic demand for talent [09:12] Moving beyond the stopgap [13:10] CMOs want chemistry [15:58] Support without spotlight [20:03] New business influx [24:29] Flexible pricing [29:01] Freelance is evolving [32:51] Portfolios open doors [36:54] Great ideas come anywhere MORE ABOUT CHRISTINE: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/colivas Forbes CMO research HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    41 min
  6. Acadia's CEO & Co-Founder: How principles are good for business – Jared Belsky

    FEB 3

    Acadia's CEO & Co-Founder: How principles are good for business – Jared Belsky

    Today’s guest is Jared Belsky, Co-Founder and CEO of Acadia – the hugely successful digital marketing and analytics agency. This is a masterclass in optimism, principled leadership and long-term thinking. Jared shares why bravery and belief sit at the heart of great leadership, from taking outspoken ethical stances, to building an agency designed to nurture future CEOs. We explore how Acadia has deliberately moved away from the boom-and-bust model that afflicts so many agencies, instead embracing more sustainable economics and intelligent specialization that doesn’t rely on a single vertical sector. Jared also offers a refreshingly positive view of the next generation, arguing they’re the most empowered yet, particularly when genuinely supported with thoughtful use of AI and automation. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:09] Where Acadia came from [04:41] Integrity in media buying [08:51] Stay profitable while doing good [11:50] Agencies as teaching platforms [17:29] Embracing economic diversity [21:12] The mid-market thesis [23:01] Saying "No" to P&G [27:37] Living the values [30:31] Empowering the team with technology [33:23] Three trends reshaping media MORE ABOUT JARED: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredbelsky HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    39 min
  7. Dentsu North America’s CEO: Why Dentsu believes in agency brands – Beth Ann Kaminkow

    JAN 27

    Dentsu North America’s CEO: Why Dentsu believes in agency brands – Beth Ann Kaminkow

    Beth Ann Kaminkow is CEO of Dentsu North America. She brings a rare candour about why so many agency groups struggle to articulate their strengths, and why Dentsu is choosing to double down on strong, clearly positioned brands rather than chasing endless consolidation. She shares her perspective on where independents are winning, why speed and specialisation matter more than ever, and how global networks leverage their scale advantage. Thoughtful, optimistic and grounded in real leadership experience, Beth Ann also cuts through the hype on AI, from its impact on creativity and craft, to increasing appetite from clients for new pricing models. HIGHLIGHTS: [03:06] How technology amplifies longevity [03:56] Restoring growth [08:18] The ‘One Dentsu’ model [12:24] Client-led media strategy [19:08] AI as media channel [22:22] Pricing unique IP [24:06] The needs that indies meet [28:24] Staying focused amidst gossip [31:55] How cynicism hurts the industry [35:44] The next wave of creativity MORE ABOUT BETH: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/beth-ann-kaminkow Mentioned in the episode: Robin’s book – Market of One: amazon.com/Market-One-rewrite-competitive-advantage HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    39 min
  8. Bodacious' Founder: A life more curious – Zoe Scaman

    JAN 20

    Bodacious' Founder: A life more curious – Zoe Scaman

    Today’s guest is Zoe Scaman, founder of Bodacious – and one of our industry's most original and outspoken thinkers. She’s built her career by following her curiosity, from her early days at Naked Communications to optimising her own business around freedom and variety. Zoe shares her take on why the traditional agency model has reached breaking point, how creativity is being squeezed by efficiency, and what a new era of talent could look like. She also speaks about building her personal brand, using writing as a thinking tool, and the importance of openness, vulnerability and speaking out. If you’re questioning what’s next for agencies – or yourself – Zoe offers both a reality check and a dose of inspiration. HIGHLIGHTS: [02:03] Freedom to be 'Bodacious' [04:24] The magic of misfits [08:35] Death by a thousand cuts [13:11] Data versus creativity [15:07] Freedom versus growth [21:44] The grey soup crisis [25:30] Breaking silence with courage [27:56] Thinking out loud in public [33:59] Learning through disagreement [37:54] Branding by machines MORE ABOUT ZOE: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/zoescaman Website: bodacious.be HOST SOCIALS: LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/robinbonn Twitter: twitter.com/robonn MORE ABOUT CO:DEFINERY: Website: codefinery.com Book: Market of One Mentioned in this episode: Get Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire Is your agency  really as differentiated as you think? And have you fully embraced the commercial disruption that AI is bringing? To find out, take five minutes to complete Co:definery's diagnostic questionnaire. It's quick, free, and thought provoking, and you get a tailored report with practical guidance for sharpening your competitive edge. Visit codefinery.com/dq

    44 min
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About

Fancy a bit more positivity around the business of running an agency? Welcome to Co:definery’s podcast ‘The Immortal Life of Agencies’. Here we celebrate the visionaries and change-makers who are actively future-proofing the agency sector. Each episode features our CEO Robin Bonn having short, sharp conversations - sometimes even friendly arguments - with some of the biggest, broadest and deepest thinkers in our industry. These are the leaders who’ve been there, done that and are happy to talk about the t-shirt - even if it’s a bit grubby. Expect untold stories of progress - always optimistic and never dull.

Information

  • Creator
    Co:definery
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    67
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 Co:definery
  • Show Website
    The Immortal Life of Agencies

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