The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast

The DTC Podcast Network
  • 5.0 (3)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Welcome to The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast, or as we've been calling it, TWBERP. Dive into weekly episodes designed to help new and seasoned email and retention marketers make the most out of their email program. Get educated, get inspired, and get your notebook ready because you've got some work to do. Hosted by Pilothouse's Jordan Gordon on the DTC Podcast Network.

  1. 4d ago

    Ep 104: The 12-Point Klaviyo Inspection

    How healthy is your Klaviyo account? Jordan Gordon walks through the 12-point inspection he uses to assess Klaviyo accounts in 10 to 15 minutes. The inspection covers revenue, clicks, audience growth, campaign frequency, send volume, and flows, with a second check for every metric that can be distorted by attribution settings, privacy opens, or bot clicks. You’ll learn how to: • Compare Shopify revenue growth with Klaviyo revenue growth • Check whether Klaviyo’s attributed revenue is trustworthy • Compare Shopify sessions with unique email and SMS clicks • use Gmail performance to spot reporting or inboxing problems • Measure list growth without Apple Privacy Opens inflating the audience • Audit campaign frequency, headlines, and design quality • Evaluate your campaign-to-flow revenue split • Use your first welcome email as an account-wide health check Need help generating more revenue from your existing traffic and customers? Visit CHAPTERS: 00:00 Why email and CRO are the fastest revenue opportunities 00:29 The 12-point Klaviyo inspection 01:24 Introduction 02:23 How the inspection works 02:52 Revenue growth and attribution settings 05:49 Unique clicks and Shopify sessions 07:45 Checking Gmail performance 11:11 Measuring list and audience health 14:05 Forms, subscribers, and unsubscribes 16:02 Campaign frequency and creative quality 18:01 Send volume and campaign open rates 20:24 Flow revenue and welcome email health 21:54 The complete 12-point recap Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  2. Sep 8

    Ep 103: Should DTC Brands Wait Until $10M to Run Paid Ads? | From the Trenches: Real Problems, Real Solutions

    Should DTC brands really avoid paid ads until they hit $5M to $10M in revenue? A viral Cody Sanchez take sparked that debate, so Eric Dyck sits down with Pilothouse’s Jordan and Raf for the first edition of The DTC Rundown: a rapid-fire breakdown of the arguments, strategies, and problems DTC operators are talking about right now. They dig into when paid acquisition actually makes sense, why brands can end up spending money advertising to customers who were already going to buy, and why healthier growth can sometimes make your marketing metrics look worse. They also break down what changes as brands move past the early growth stage, including the shift from capturing existing demand to creating new demand, balancing evergreen marketing with bigger campaign moments, and keeping Meta and Klaviyo audience signals clean enough to know whether you’re actually acquiring new customers. Plus, two real examples from the trenches show what happens when a website is designed around existing customers, an acquisition funnel creates too much friction, and a brand keeps using the same playbook long after the market around it has changed. Key timestamps: 00:00 Why email and CRO can unlock revenue without more ad spend 02:21 Should brands really avoid paid ads until $5M–$10M? 10:09 The hidden ad spend wasted on existing customers 12:02 Evergreen vs. campaigns as brands scale 20:06 Why clean audience definitions matter on Meta 23:23 What slowing growth actually looks like inside the numbers 31:04 When your website is built for existing customers 38:41 The conversion funnel mistake costing one brand sales Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  3. Sep 1

    Ep 102: 0.25% CTR and Not in Spam: What Do You Fix Next?

    What do you fix when your email program has a 0.25% click-through rate and deliverability isn’t the problem? This week, Jordan breaks down a pattern he sees across larger DTC brands: daily campaigns, oversized automated flow systems, low engagement, and plenty of attributed revenue that makes the program look healthier than it really is. He walks through how to find your real click-through rate, strip out bot activity, identify which flow messages are actually generating revenue, and figure out where relevance can still create meaningful lift. Jordan also explains why attributed revenue rewards brands for sending more email, even when those sends may have little incremental impact. Then he gets into the fix: build a true control group, simplify bloated flow systems, concentrate automated messaging around high-intent windows, reduce broad campaign frequency, and measure whether email is actually increasing customer spend across channels. Key Timestamps: 01:23 The 0.25% CTR problem 03:20 How to find your real click-through rate 05:13 The 80/20 test for bloated flow systems 07:09 How to rule out deliverability as the problem 09:33 Finding the audience where relevance matters most 13:24 Why attributed revenue rewards sending more email 15:51 Building a control group to measure incremental lift 20:10 How to simplify flows and reduce campaign volume Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  4. Aug 25

    Ep 101: How to Know When You’re Marketing to the Wrong Customers

    The customers that got your brand to its current size may not be the customers who take it to the next stage of growth. This week, Jordan is joined by Pilothouse’s Rafael Gi to break down a pattern they’re seeing across brands at very different stages: the customer base, acquisition strategy, and messaging that once worked can eventually become a ceiling. They walk through three real brand scenarios, including a skincare company where 80% of free-sample buyers never purchased again, a sports brand that had outgrown its parent-focused positioning, and a sunglasses brand seeing its higher-AOV customer segment grow while its traditional core market declined. Jordan and Raf discuss how to spot these shifts early, what your new-to-repeat customer mix can tell you, why revenue per email sent matters, how acquisition platforms get trained on the customers you attract, and how to realign your ads, website, and retention strategy around the customers with the most future value. In this episode: How to tell when you’re marketing to the wrong customersWhy growing brands can outgrow their original customer segmentThe danger of training Meta and Google to find discount buyersWhy 80% of one brand’s free-sample customers never purchased againHow to analyze new vs. repeat customer cohortsRevenue per email sent as an early warning signalMatching PDP messaging to the audience landing thereHow to shift toward a more valuable customer segment without losing your existing base 01:22 Why your current customers may be holding back your next stage of growth 03:39 Three brands facing the same customer-segment problem 08:00 How to tell when you’re marketing to the wrong people 09:29 Using Shopify cohorts to diagnose customer quality 10:27 Revenue per email sent as an early warning signal 11:52 When your PDP is speaking to the wrong customer 16:39 How discount acquisition can train Meta and Google on the wrong buyers 20:57 When a higher-value customer segment starts replacing your core market Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  5. Aug 18

    Ep 100: 100% in Gmail Spam: How We’re Rewarming This Email Account

    Jordan is in the middle of rewarming an email account that Gmail was sending straight to spam, so this week he’s taking you inside the process. He breaks down what damaged the account’s sending reputation, the engagement segments he’s using to rebuild it, why static send size matters during a rewarm, and how he’s using Gmail-specific data, GlockApps, and Postmaster Tools to tell when it’s safe to scale back up. Jordan also explains why your reported email revenue may be inflated by Apple Privacy Opens, why list size is one of the most misleading metrics in email, and what brands should watch before a struggling program gets this far. In this episode: The email trilemma: traffic, inboxing, and list growthWhat 100% Gmail spam actually meansThe segments Jordan uses during a rewarmWhy engaged senders should ramp volume slowlyThe problem with Apple Privacy Opens and email attributionWhy prospect-only campaigns can hurt engagementHow to use Google Postmaster Tools during recoveryWhen to start expanding your audience again If your email performance looks healthy on paper while clicks and inbox placement tell a different story, this episode shows you where to look. 01:24 Why this email account needs a rewarm 02:22 The email trilemma: traffic, inboxing, and list growth 05:13 Inside an account hitting 100% Gmail spam 08:08 How Apple Privacy Opens can inflate email revenue 11:05 The exact segments Jordan uses to rewarm an account 14:02 Why static send size matters during a rewarm 20:54 GlockApps, Gmail segments, and Google Postmaster Tools 24:12 Using high-engagement promos to rebuild sending reputation Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  6. Aug 11

    Ep 99: Jordan's new favourite email program PLUS a mistake you can avoid

    Jordan has a new favourite email program, and it breaks a lot of the rules marketers usually follow. In this episode of The World’s Best Email and Retention Podcast, Jordan breaks down Dôen’s email program, from its layered photo grids and behind-the-scenes creative to tiny copy, cursive fonts, and understated CTAs. The program assumes its audience actually wants to spend time with the brand. That matters when your emails are competing inside a promotions tab packed with dozens of other brands. Jordan also catches one mistake in Dôen’s otherwise excellent program: two different abandonment emails landing within four minutes of each other. He explains why overlapping cart, checkout, site abandonment, and third-party identification flows can cause this, plus the waterfall exclusions he uses to prevent it. What you’ll learn: Why Dôen has become Jordan’s new favourite email programHow behind-the-scenes content helps pull customers deeper into a brand’s worldWhy intentional creative can make subscribers actively look for your emailsHow to use photo grids, GIFs, location shoots, and community contentThe abandonment-flow mistake Jordan found in his own inboxHow to structure exclusions across checkout, cart, site abandonment, and third-party triggersWhy winning an individual CRO test can still degrade the overall brand experienceHow email design, copy, CTAs, and creative work together as one system 00:00 – Why email + CRO are the fastest path to more ecommerce revenue 01:25 – Jordan’s new favourite email program: Dôen 04:15 – Why Dôen designs for an intentional reader 08:01 – The behind-the-scenes email that immediately got Jordan to open 09:00 – How to stand out in a completely stuffed Promotions tab 12:52 – Jordan finds a mistake 15:49 – The abandonment flow waterfall that prevents duplicate emails 17:17 – Why a “winning” CRO test can slowly degrade your brand Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  7. Aug 4

    Ep 98: 11 Email Marketing Mistakes Brands Keep Making

    After auditing hundreds of email programs, Jordan Gordon has seen the same mistakes show up again and again. In this episode of The World’s Best Email & Retention Podcast, Jordan runs through 11 common problems that make retention programs harder to manage and less effective, from creating endless Klaviyo segments and bloated flows to mixing too many goals into one post-purchase journey. He also gets into why non-opener resends can hurt your sending reputation, where your best offer should appear in an email, what brands miss when testing dark mode, and why producing more campaigns can leave you with thinner creative. Then he moves beyond the inbox with two CRO mistakes he sees constantly: underdeveloped top product pages and homepages that have accumulated too many competing ideas. What you’ll learn: Why you probably have too many Klaviyo segmentsHow bloated flows create dead weight in your retention programWhy each automation should have one clear conversion goalWho you should ask for reviews and UGCWhy non-opener double taps can hurt deliverabilityWhere your strongest offer should appearWhy every brand should be checking emails in dark modeHow too much campaign volume can weaken your creativeWhat your highest-traffic PDP needs above the foldHow to clean up an overloaded homepage 00:00 – How Email + CRO Drive More Revenue 01:22 – The Email Mistakes Jordan Sees Every Day 03:19 – Why Too Many Flows Become Dead Weight 06:16 – UGC, Reviews & Post-Purchase Mistakes 10:07 – Give Every Automation One Clear Goal 13:29 – Offers, Non-Opener Resends & Dark Mode 16:22 – When Too Much Email Content Hurts Performance 22:13 – PDP & Homepage CRO Mistakes Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

  8. Jul 28

    Ep 97: The Perfect Pop-Up: Timing, Targeting, and the Right Offer

    In this episode of The World’s Best Email and Retention Podcast, Jordan Gordon sits down with Alia founder Shaan Arora to break down what makes a high-converting pop-up work. Shaan shares how Alia grew from a college project to $8 million in revenue before being acquired by Dotdigital for $60 million. He also explains how the company uses behavioral data to personalize pop-ups based on the shopper, timing, creative, and offer. They get into the role of data as a competitive advantage, how AI is changing software development, and why strong e-commerce brands continue testing even after they find a winning variation. What you’ll learn: How Alia grew from two early customers to a $60 million acquisitionThe four elements behind a “perfect pop-up”How timing, traffic source, and customer history affect conversionWhy blanket discounts can quietly reduce marginHow customer data creates an advantage that competitors cannot quickly copyWhy Alia continues focusing on pop-ups as a core productHow continuous A/B testing compounds conversion gainsWhy flexible software contracts can make experimentation easier 00:41 What makes a “perfect pop-up” 01:48 Alia’s $60 million acquisition 03:13 From college project to $8 million in revenue 08:54 AI, software development, and defensible SaaS moats 12:38 Personalizing the customer, timing, creative, and offer 18:48 Why strong brands never stop testing Work with Pilothouse: ⁠https://www.pilothouse.co/get-in-touch?utm_source=dtc&utm_medium=podcast&utm_content=e&rPodcast⁠ Subscribe on YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DTCPodcast Subscribe to DTC: ⁠https://www.directtoconsumer.co/⁠ Listen to DTC Podcast: ⁠https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/dtcpodcast

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5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Welcome to The World's Best Email and Retention Podcast, or as we've been calling it, TWBERP. Dive into weekly episodes designed to help new and seasoned email and retention marketers make the most out of their email program. Get educated, get inspired, and get your notebook ready because you've got some work to do. Hosted by Pilothouse's Jordan Gordon on the DTC Podcast Network.

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