Heads and Tails

Kate + Jay White

Heads and Tails is a candid, heartfelt and often humorous podcast hosted by longtime couple Jay and Kate White.. ...a psychologist and an OB/GYN who've been married for 26 years. Named for their dual perspectives on the mind and body, this show dives into the real challenges of midlife with warmth, wisdom, and occasional glass of wine. ​ From navigating midlife dating or keeping the spark alive in long-term relationships, to launching kids, caring for aging parents, maintaining friendships, and even changing careers — Heads and Tails covers it all. With Jay's insight into the psychological and Kate's expertise in the physical, each episode offers practical, relatable advice in a tone that feels more like a conversation in your living room than a lecture. ​ Real talk. Real laughs. Real life. Because midlife isn't a crisis—it's a recalibration.

  1. 4D AGO

    Episode 17: Traver Boehm: Pot, Porn, or PBR: What Men Use to Bury Pain—and How to Heal Instead

    What happens when "be strong" turns into "be silent"? In this episode of Heads & Tails, we sit down with Traver Boehm, founder of the UNcivilized Men's Movement, to unpack the cultural myth that men must always be tough, unbothered, and emotionally bulletproof—and how that training can quietly sabotage intimacy, conflict repair, and long-term connection. Traver and Jay get real about what often replaces emotional vocabulary: shutdown, defensiveness, or burying pain with what Jay calls "Pot, Porn, or Pabst Blue Ribbon." Traver shares practical tools that help men build the capacity to stay present—like meditation, nervous-system regulation, and (crucially) community—so the relationship isn't the only place their unprocessed pain leaks out. If you love a good man but feel like you're talking to a wall during conflict, this episode is for you—and for the men you care about.   💡 Name: Traver Boehm 💡Company: Man UnCivilized 💡Noteworthy: founder of the UNcivilized Men's Movement and has built programs and communities focused on helping men develop emotional strength, accountability, and connection.  💡 Where to find them:  Man UnCivilized Podcast https://www.manuncivilized.com/meet-traver-boehm  Find an in person men's group:  https://www.manuncivilized.com/mensgroup The Book: 28 Days In Darkness (https://www.manuncivilized.com/books#section-1751992894384) for men ready to reclaim authentic masculinity (and for the people who love them) To my fellow clinicians: listen to the You Are Not Broken podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Pinnacle's network to earn FREE CME credit⁠⁠⁠. https://learnatpinnacle.com/education

    52 min
  2. JAN 30

    Episode 16: Midlife Career Reboot: From Burnout to Bucket List

    In this episode of Heads & Tails, Kate and Jay tackle the big midlife question: Do I stay, do I go, or do I completely reinvent my work life?   They unpack the biology (hormones, brain changes, sleep, stress load) and psychology (identity shifts, boundaries, values, and meaning) that make midlife the moment where your tolerance for workplace nonsense drops to zero.   Kate explains how perimenopause/menopause, allostatic load, and poor sleep change mood, focus, and resilience—so you're not "too sensitive," you're maxed out. Jay walks through why midlife pushes us to ask, "Is this worth my time, energy, and one wild and precious life?"   Together they explore six real options:    •   stay "balls to the wall" and ride into the sunset    •   quiet quit / right-size your energy    •   stay and try to fix what's broken    •   retire or step back and volunteer where you matter most    •   go live the bucket list    •   strike out in a new role or career   You'll get a simple framework: audit your energy, check your biology, name the real problem (burnout, moral injury, boredom, or life mismatch), reality-check finances and relationships, and run low-risk 90-day experiments instead of all-or-nothing leaps.   ⸻   Action Items     1.    Two-week work audit: Note what gives vs. drains your energy each day.     2.    Biology check: If symptoms are loud (sleep, mood, hot flashes, brain fog), talk to your clinician.     3.    Name your main issue: Burnout, moral injury, boredom, or life mismatch.     4.    Choose one 90-day experiment: A boundary, schedule change, or small step toward a new path.     5.    Write a 6–12 month intention: "I want work to feel more ___ and less ___."   ⸻   Share Your Story   Have you made a midlife work pivot? 👉 Email us at: ask@headsandtailspodcast.com Tell us your story (you can remain anonymous), and we may share it in a future episode.   To my fellow clinicians: listen to the You Are Not Broken podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Pinnacle's network to earn FREE CME credit⁠⁠⁠. https://learnatpinnacle.com/education

    38 min
  3. JAN 16

    Ep. 15: Dr. Mary Claire Haver: Lose the Filter, Keep the Muscle: The Menopause Plan for the Next 30 Years

    Midlife is not a crisis—it's a recalibration. In this special episode of Heads & Tails, Dr. Kate White is joined by menopause expert Dr. Mary Claire Haver for a candid, science-forward conversation that clears the noise around perimenopause and menopause and replaces it with a practical plan for the next three decades of your health.   You'll hear the "inside scoop" on Dr. Haver's prevention-first framework (including her "nursing home prevention plan" mindset) and how Dr. White applies the pillars of lifestyle medicine to help patients protect their body composition, brain health, energy, and mood—without perfectionism or fear.   And yes, we go there: why "losing your filter" in midlife may actually be a feature, not a flaw—unlocking more honest boundaries, clearer priorities, and better relationships at home, at work, and with friends.   In This Episode, We Cover    •   The biggest myths about perimenopause and menopause (and what's actually true)    •   What symptoms are "normal," what's treatable, and what you should not ignore    •   Dr. Haver's prevention lens: thinking long-term about mobility, independence, and cognition    •   Dr. White's lifestyle medicine approach: the daily inputs that move the needle most    •   The priorities that matter most for the next 30 years: muscle, metabolic health, sleep, stress, and connection    •   Why "unfiltered" midlife can improve your communication, boundaries, and relationships    •   A simple way to start your recalibration this week—without overhauling your entire life   Practical Takeaways    •   A myth-busting checklist you can use at your next visit    •   The "minimum effective dose" of habits that protect your future health    •   Language you can use to advocate for yourself when you're dismissed or told to "just deal with it"   Listener Challenge   Choose one domain to recalibrate this week: sleep, strength, nutrition, stress, or connection. Pick one small action you can repeat for 7 days—and notice what shifts.   Follow / Subscribe so you don't miss future episodes on hormones, brain fog, weight & metabolism, libido, sleep, and the relationship side of midlife.   Disclaimer: This episode is for education only and does not replace personalized medical care. Please consult your clinician for individual recommendations.   To my fellow clinicians: listen to the You Are Not Broken podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Pinnacle's network to earn FREE CME credit⁠⁠⁠. https://learnatpinnacle.com/education

    40 min
  4. JAN 2

    Episode 14: Shedding 5 types of Toxic Relationships: A Guide to a Drama Free New Year

    New year, fresh standards. In this episode of Heads & Tails, we tackle one of the most powerful (and challenging) forms of midlife recalibration: shedding toxic relationships. Not every hard relationship is toxic—and not every toxic relationship is obvious. We walk through five common toxic relationship types, the red flags that signal you're in one, and how to decide whether it's time for repair, distance, or a clean break.   You'll learn how to assess the real cost of staying—emotionally, physically, and relationally—and how to get out without getting pulled back in. Whether it's a partner, friend, family member, colleague, or long-time "frenemy," this episode gives you a clear, practical framework to protect your peace and move forward with integrity.   In this episode, we cover   1) How to identify the "Toxic Five"   Controlling: monitoring, isolating, "permission" dynamics, punishment for independence   Codependent: rescuing, over-functioning, guilt-driven caretaking, identity fused to fixing   Manipulative / Gaslighting: rewriting reality, "you're too sensitive," moving goalposts, plausible deniability   High-Conflict / Volatile: chaos cycles, explosions, blame, emotional whiplash, constant crisis   Emotionally Neglectful / Dismissive: chronic minimization, stonewalling, lack of empathy, "your needs are too much"   2) Red flags you're in a toxic dynamic (not just a rough season)   You routinely feel anxious before interactions or need recovery time afterward   You edit yourself to avoid backlash, sulking, or "punishment"   You're always the one apologizing, explaining, or chasing resolution   Your boundaries are treated as betrayal   The relationship costs you peace, confidence, or connection with others   3) Outgrown vs. damaging: how to tell the difference   "Outgrown" often feels sad but stable; "damaging" feels unsafe, depleting, or destabilizing   We share a simple self-check to measure: impact on mood, sleep, self-worth, stress level, and other relationships   4) What "getting out" can look like   Make it healthier: clear boundaries, structured communication, accountability, and behavior change (not promises)   Create distance: limited contact, topic boundaries, reduced access, emotional detachment   Remove yourself: ending the relationship, exiting shared systems, safety planning when needed   5) Practical tools you can use immediately   Boundary scripts you can actually say out loud   How to stop negotiating with someone who benefits from your confusion   What to do when guilt, history, or family pressure tries to pull you back in   How couples stay aligned when the toxic person is a relative or friend   Try this after you listen   Identify which of the "Toxic Five" best fits the relationship you're thinking about.   Write down three non-negotiables (how you will be spoken to, treated, and included).   Decide your next step: repair, distance, or exit—and choose one concrete action you'll take this week.   Listener takeaway   Midlife is not the time to keep paying emotional rent to relationships that drain your health, your home, or your sense of self. You're not "too much." You're just done accepting too little.   Important note   This episode is educational and does not replace medical or mental health care. If you feel unsafe or fear retaliation, prioritize safety and consider confidential support from a qualified professional or local resources.   Call to action   If this episode hit home, share it with a friend who's doing a quiet reset this year. And if you want more episodes like this, send us your "Heads or Tails?" relationship scenarios—anonymous questions welcome.   To my fellow clinicians: listen to the You Are Not Broken podcast on ⁠⁠⁠Pinnacle's network to earn FREE CME credit⁠⁠⁠. https://learnatpinnacle.com/education

    1h 6m
  5. 11/28/2025

    Episode 12: Residency to Menopause Revolution: The Havers & The Whites on Growing Together in Midlife

    What happens when your residency buddy becomes the global voice of menopause—and you've both spent 27 years growing up, growing families, and growing careers side by side?   In this episode of Heads & Tails, Kate and Jay sit down with long-time friends Dr. Mary Claire Haver and Chris Haver for a deeply personal conversation about medicine, marriage, and what it means to evolve together over decades.   Today, Dr. Mary Claire Haver is a superstar in menopause education and nutrition— author of The New Menopause and The Galveston Diet, and the force behind a massive social media platform that has helped millions of women find evidence-based guidance through the menopause transition. But before all of that, the Havers and the Whites were just four exhausted humans trying to survive OB/GYN residency while having babies, building practices, and figuring out marriage on no sleep.   This episode pulls back the curtain on the inside story:   How friendship started in the chaos of residency—with babies, call nights, and "we're just trying to make it to tomorrow" energy   What it was really like being married to busy obstetrician-gynecologists while raising tweens and teens   Parenting teens in perimenopause: hormones, emotions, and why everyone needed a little more grace   How Mary Claire's rise as a menopause and nutrition leader reshaped roles, rhythms, and expectations in her marriage with Chris   The reality of building big, mission-driven businesses in midlife (Kate and Mary Claire) while protecting and nurturing the partnership behind the scenes   Sharing the load: how both couples have navigated caregiving for aging parents while still caring for their own marriages   Now as menopausal empty nesters—why neither couple is slowing down, and how they're intentionally planning the next 20 years of health, work, and love together   If you've ever wondered how a couple holds onto their relationship while one partner becomes a public figure—or how long-term friendships can anchor you through every season from residency to reinvention—this conversation is honest, warm, and full of hard-earned wisdom.

    1h 9m
  6. 11/21/2025

    Episode 11: Laugh Lines & Life Lines: Midlife with Chuck Nice

    Guest: Chuck Nice — comedian, lifelong science lover, and long-time co-host of the award-winning StarTalk Podcast with astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson (@startalkradio) Hosts: Dr. Kate Schuh White & Jay White, LMFT   This week on Heads & Tails, we welcome the incomparable Chuck Nice, whose rare blend of insight, science curiosity, and razor-sharp humor makes him the perfect guide through the messy, magical middle of life.   Together, we dive deep into midlife's biggest questions — with equal parts honesty, heart, and hilarity:   🎭 What it's really like to be in a relationship with a comedian The charm, the creativity, and the moments when you wonder if the joke will ever end.   🔥 Why midlife women are the most desirable partners you'll ever have Confidence, competence, clarity, and an unapologetic understanding of who they are.   🧬 Biology meets psychology meets comedy We unpack the physical and emotional shifts of midlife — with Chuck translating the human condition into stories that make you think and laugh.   🧠 How mental health struggles can open life in unexpected ways Chuck shares how facing his own challenges expanded his purpose and deepened his relationships.   📡 And yes — science! As the long-time co-host of StarTalk with Neil deGrasse Tyson, Chuck brings his signature "just smart enough" humor to aging bodies, changing brains, and the cosmic perspective on growing older.   This episode is honest, heartfelt, and ridiculously fun. Chuck brings the comedy. Kate brings the biology. Jay brings the therapy. And midlife finally gets the three-dimensional conversation it deserves.   🎤 Watch Chuck's standup special "Chuck Nice: Just Smart Enough" on Amazon Video, and see where he's performing next on Instagram or X: @chucknicecomic

    50 min
  7. 11/06/2025

    Episode 10: Opposites Attract- then collide. Stop Fighting About What Once Made You Fall in Love

    You fell in love with their spontaneity, their energy, their calm, their structure — whatever it was that balanced you out. But fast forward a decade (or two), and those same traits are now the source of your biggest fights. In this Heads & Tails episode, Dr. Kate and Jay White unpack what happens when the differences that once sparked attraction start to cause friction. From savers vs. spenders, early birds vs. always late, and introverts vs. extroverts, to the classic messy vs. clean showdown, they explore why these dynamics shift over time and what they reveal about deeper emotional needs.   You'll learn:    •   Why "opposites attract" isn't a myth — but also why it's not enough to sustain connection    •   How to move from criticism to curiosity when your partner's habits drive you crazy    •   What these personality pairings can actually teach you about your own blind spots    •   Practical tools to recalibrate instead of resent    •   How midlife, empty-nest transitions, and career shifts can magnify or mellow your differences Because staying connected isn't about becoming the same — it's about learning how to stay on the same team, even when you play different positions. 🪙 Flip a coin moment: Which side are you on — the saver or the spender, the messy or the meticulous? DM us your "opposite" story @headsandtailspodcast!

    51 min
4.9
out of 5
48 Ratings

About

Heads and Tails is a candid, heartfelt and often humorous podcast hosted by longtime couple Jay and Kate White.. ...a psychologist and an OB/GYN who've been married for 26 years. Named for their dual perspectives on the mind and body, this show dives into the real challenges of midlife with warmth, wisdom, and occasional glass of wine. ​ From navigating midlife dating or keeping the spark alive in long-term relationships, to launching kids, caring for aging parents, maintaining friendships, and even changing careers — Heads and Tails covers it all. With Jay's insight into the psychological and Kate's expertise in the physical, each episode offers practical, relatable advice in a tone that feels more like a conversation in your living room than a lecture. ​ Real talk. Real laughs. Real life. Because midlife isn't a crisis—it's a recalibration.

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