Teacher Business School™: TPT, Homeschool, & Beyond

Lindsay Bowden
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The Teacher Business School podcast helps teachers and homeschool moms create and sell their own digital products. Whether you're interested in selling teacher resources on Teachers Pay Teacher (TPT), selling low ticket offers, or selling online courses and memberships, this is the show for you! If you're looking for ways to make passive income, quit your 9-5, start a side hustle, and start earning income that makes an income, give this show a listen!

  1. 13h ago

    137: Trademarks vs. Copyrights: What Every Teacher Business Owner Needs to Know

    Have you ever wondered if you should trademark your TPT store name? Or worried about someone copying your teaching resources? Maybe you're just starting your teacher business and want to make sure you're not accidentally using a name or idea that belongs to someone else. The legal side of running a teacher business can feel confusing, but it doesn't have to hold you back! In this episode of the Teacher Business School Podcast, I'm chatting with Ticora Davis, an award-winning trademark and business attorney and founder of The Creators Law Firm. Ticora is actually helping me with a trademark right now, so I knew she would be the perfect person to answer some of the questions I hear most often from TPT sellers. We're talking about the difference between trademarks and copyrights, what parts of your teacher business you should consider protecting, how much trademark registration costs, and what you need to know about using other people's copyrighted materials in resources you sell. Ticora also walks us through the actual USPTO trademark database and shows how to search for existing trademarks, including some common mistakes that could cause problems down the road. If you're listening to the podcast, I definitely recommend checking out the YouTube version so you can follow along with her screen! Whether you're brand new to selling teaching resources or have an established business, this episode is full of helpful information to make the legal side of entrepreneurship feel a little less intimidating. Key Discussion Points: [00:02:50] Trademarks vs. Copyrights: What's the Difference? Ticora explains how trademarks protect business names and other brand identifiers, while copyrights protect original creative work, including worksheets, curriculum, books, and courses. [00:05:36] What Should TPT Sellers Consider Trademarking? From store names and logos to product lines and even personal names, we discuss which parts of your teacher business may be worth protecting and how to prioritize them. [00:07:50] Do You Need to Register Copyrights for Your Teaching Resources? Learn how copyright protection works when you create original resources and why strategically registering certain materials may be beneficial. [00:09:35] Should You Trademark Your Store Name or Logo First? Ticora shares why she generally recommends starting with your business name and waiting until your branding is established before considering a separate logo trademark. [00:19:09] Do You Need an LLC to Register a Trademark? We discuss whether you need a formally registered business before applying for trademark protection. [00:21:41] How Much Does Trademark Registration Cost? Ticora breaks down application fees, attorney costs, and affordable options such as law school clinics and pro bono legal programs. [00:24:27] How Long Does It Take to Get a Trademark? What to expect from the registration process, why some applications take longer, and the importance of researching your business name before investing in branding. [00:28:50] How to Search the USPTO Trademark Database Ticora shares her screen and demonstrates how to search for existing trademarks, filter results, and understand trademark classifications. [00:32:30] The Biggest Mistake People Make When Searching for Trademarks Why finding no exact matches doesn't necessarily mean a business name is available, and how similar spellings or pronunciations can still create legal issues. [00:43:50] Copyright, Fair Use, and Using Published Works in TPT Resources We discuss what teacher sellers should consider before using copyrighted books, characters, images, and other published materials in resources they plan to sell. [00:48:00] Licensing Your Teaching Resources Why having clear terms of use matters and how licensing can help establish what customers are allowed to do with your resources. [00:49:30] Trademark Protection for International Sellers Ticora explains why trademark rights vary by country and what sellers outside the United States should consider when protecting their brands. Connect with Attorney Ticora Davis - The Creators Law Firm Website: https://creatorslawfirm.com Phone: 980-277-0430 Schedule a free 20-minute introductory call with a member of her team to learn more about their services. United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) Search for existing trademarks and explore educational resources: https://www.uspto.gov/ Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeLearn Facebook and Instagram Ads: https://lindsaybowden.com/adsSell Education Workbooks with Amazon KDP: https://lindsaybowden.com/KDPEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Disclaimer: This episode is for educational and informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. Always consult a qualified attorney about your specific situation.

  2. Oct 28

    136: The Secret to Getting More Eyes on Your TPT Resources

    What if Pinterest could help you bring more traffic to your TPT store, grow your audience, and get your resources in front of more teachers without spending money on ads? In this episode of the Teacher Business School Podcast, I'm chatting with Alyssa from Teacher Noire, a top 1% TPT seller and Teacher Resource Academy member, who has reached an impressive 1 million monthly views on Pinterest! Alyssa is sharing how she uses Pinterest to grow her teacher business, why TPT sellers should think of Pinterest as a search engine rather than social media, and how to create pins that continue bringing traffic to your resources for months or even years. We also walk through her actual Pinterest profile, discuss how to optimize your account and boards, and share simple ways to create pins without adding hours of work to your schedule. Whether you're brand new to Pinterest or looking to improve your current strategy, this episode is full of practical ideas you can start using right away! Key Discussion Points:[00:02:43] Why TPT Sellers Should Be Using Pinterest Alyssa explains why Pinterest is more like a search engine than a social media platform and how it can help teachers discover your resources. [00:04:04] Does Pinterest Actually Drive TPT Sales? How Pinterest can bring traffic to your TPT store, website, blog, email list, and other platforms. [00:06:28] Getting Started With Pinterest: The ABCs Alyssa shares her simple framework for setting up your account, optimizing your boards with keywords, and creating content. [00:08:20] A Look Inside Alyssa's Pinterest Profile We walk through her actual profile, boards, and pins to see how she uses keywords, product photos, and different designs to attract teachers. [00:12:06] Repurposing Content & Planning Seasonal Pins Why you should reuse your existing social media content and start pinning seasonal resources three to six months in advance. [00:14:31] How Often Should You Pin? Alyssa discusses Pinterest scheduling tools, batching content, and why consistency matters more than posting constantly. [00:16:47] Creating Pinterest Pins From Your TPT Resources Simple ways to turn your existing TPT thumbnails, product photos, and videos into Pinterest content. [00:18:30] Tracking Pinterest Traffic & Results How to use Pinterest analytics, TPT data, and website traffic to understand where your visitors are coming from. [00:19:40] The Biggest Pinterest Mistakes TPT Sellers Make Why linking only to your TPT store can limit your opportunities and how to use Pinterest to grow your overall teacher business. [00:22:29] Using Pinterest to Drive Traffic to Your Blog Alyssa shares how she creates multiple pins for blog posts that feature and link to her TPT resources. [00:24:36] What Makes a Good Pinterest Pin? Tips for creating eye-catching pins, using Canva templates, and maintaining consistent branding. [00:27:23] How Alyssa Learned Pinterest Marketing Alyssa shares how her experience managing Pinterest for an educational company helped her grow her own business. [00:29:30] Finding Time for Pinterest & Staying Consistent How to batch your pins, create a manageable schedule, and avoid getting overwhelmed. [00:30:01] Why Pinterest Is a Long-Term Strategy Why you shouldn't expect immediate results and how pins can continue generating traffic long after they're published. Teacher Noire Website: https://teachernoire.com/ Alyssa's Pinterest: www.pinterest.com/teachernoire/ Teacher Noire Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachernoire Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeLearn Facebook and Instagram Ads: https://lindsaybowden.com/adsSell Education Workbooks with Amazon KDP: https://lindsaybowden.com/KDPEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Resources mentioned may contain affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products and resources I truly love and use myself.

  3. Oct 21

    The Latest TPT Updates: Exclusivity, AI & Your Next Steps

    Teachers Pay Teachers has made some major announcements recently, and I know many sellers are feeling frustrated, overwhelmed, or unsure about what to do next. In this special episode, I'm sharing the latest updates following TPT's town hall on October 8th, including clarification about the new Exclusive Seller Membership, what happens if you don't opt in, and what I'm personally planning to do with my TPT store. I'm also discussing TPT's newly announced plans regarding AI-generated content, what we know so far, and why I think it's important for educators to continue creating their own high-quality resources. Most importantly, I want to help you make a plan that works for your business without getting caught up in all the negativity. Key Discussion Points:[00:01:00] TPT Exclusive Seller Membership Updates A recap of the new membership structure, the 77.5% payout rate, and what exclusivity means for digital resources. [00:02:42] What Can You Still Sell Outside of TPT? Clarification about Amazon KDP, Boom Cards, courses, and other products that may still be allowed under the exclusive membership. [00:04:03] Renewals, Refunds & the January 1 Deadline What happens if your Premium Membership renews before January 1 and what to expect if you don't opt into exclusivity. [00:05:53] My Recommendation for TPT Sellers Why staying exclusive may make sense for some sellers and how to prepare for eventually selling on additional platforms. [00:08:42] What I'm Personally Doing With My TPT Store Why I've decided to switch to Basic and focus on growing sales through my own website and other marketing strategies. [00:09:52] Important Things to Consider Before Switching Why timing, income, and your capacity to manage another platform should factor into your decision. [00:10:44] TPT's New AI Announcement What was shared during the town hall about generative AI and why sellers should wait for official written guidance. [00:11:22] Should You Use AI to Create TPT Resources? My thoughts on AI-generated resources, covers, thumbnails, previews, and product descriptions. [00:14:38] Moving Forward With Your TPT Business Why I still believe TPT is a great opportunity for educators and how to make a plan for your business moving forward. Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeLearn Facebook and Instagram Ads: https://lindsaybowden.com/adsSell Education Workbooks with Amazon KDP: https://lindsaybowden.com/KDPEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Resources mentioned may contain affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products and resources I truly love and use myself.

  4. Oct 14

    135: My New Ads for Educators Program Is HERE!

    Can Facebook and Instagram ads really help you grow your TPT sales and email list - even with a small budget? In this episode, Lindsay is celebrating the launch of her brand new Ads for Educators program! Before releasing it, she had 14 team members test the strategies, many of whom had never run ads before. She's sharing their results, including hundreds of new email subscribers, growing social media accounts, and exciting TPT sales milestones. Lindsay also walks through what's included in the program, who should consider running ads, and how educators can use Facebook and Instagram advertising to grow their businesses beyond organic traffic. Key Discussion Points:[00:00:58] Ads for Educators Is Officially Here! Lindsay introduces her new Facebook and Instagram ads program, including special launch pricing and two bonus live coaching calls. [00:01:58] Testing the Program With Real-Life Teacher Business Owners Why Lindsay had her team test the program before launching and how they started running campaigns with budgets as low as $5 per day. [00:02:45] Real Results From Facebook & Instagram Ads Lindsay shares results from her team, including hundreds of new email subscribers, social media growth, and increased TPT sales. [00:05:53] What's Included in Ads for Educators? A look inside the step-by-step training, including setting up Meta ads, finding your audience, creating ads that convert, and understanding your results. [00:07:30] Growing Beyond Your TPT Store How educators can use ads to promote their resources on TPT, their own websites, Etsy, and other platforms while building multiple income streams. [00:08:07] Who Should Start Running Ads? Lindsay explains why brand new sellers should focus on establishing their stores first and shares when it might make sense to start investing in advertising. [00:09:00] Can Exclusive TPT Sellers Still Run Ads? How TPT sellers can use Facebook and Instagram ads to promote their TPT resources and grow their email lists, including those considering the new Exclusive Seller Membership. Ready to learn how to run Facebook and Instagram ads for your teacher business? Inside Ads for Educators, you'll learn how to set up your ads, reach the right audience, create effective ad content, and track your results - even if you've never run an ad before! Learn more and join here: https://lindsaybowden.com/ads Connect further: Make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1

  5. Oct 7

    134: The Truth About Running Facebook & Instagram Ads for Your Teacher Business

    Think Facebook and Instagram ads are too expensive, too complicated, or only for businesses with huge social media followings? In this episode, Lindsay is busting some of the biggest myths educators believe about running ads for their teacher businesses. After running Facebook and Instagram ads since 2019 and spending close to $2 million in ad spend, Lindsay shares what she's learned about using ads to grow an email list, generate TPT sales, and grow a teacher business faster. She also explains who should - and shouldn't - be running ads yet. Key Discussion Points:[00:01:15] A New Facebook & Instagram Ads Program for Educators Lindsay shares what she's been working on and how her new program will teach educators to use Meta ads to sell teacher resources and grow their email lists. [00:02:35] What I've Learned From Nearly $2 Million in Ad Spend After running ads since 2019 and investing heavily in learning how they work, Lindsay explains why ads can add speed to a business that's already making sales organically. [00:04:03] Myth #1: You Need a Huge Ad Budget You don't have to start with hundreds of dollars per day. Lindsay shares why teacher businesses may be able to see results starting with budgets as small as $3–$5 per day. [00:05:20] Myth #2: You Have to Show Your Face One of Lindsay's best-performing TPT ads doesn't show her face at all. She explains how simple resource-focused videos filmed on your phone can work for ads. [00:06:08] Myth #3: You Need a Big Social Media Following You can run ads with zero followers! Lindsay explains how Meta ads can put your business in front of new people while potentially helping you grow your social media following at the same time. [00:11:30] Myth #4: Ads Are Too Technical Meta's setup isn't always intuitive, but that doesn't mean you need to be tech-savvy. Lindsay explains why following the process step-by-step can make learning ads much more manageable. [00:07:15] Who Should Actually Run Ads? If you just opened your TPT store and aren't getting organic sales yet, ads probably shouldn't be your first step. Lindsay explains what she recommends having in place before you start paying for traffic. [00:08:35] How Much Should You Be Making Before Running Ads? There isn't one magic income number, but Lindsay shares a general starting point and why you should be generating consistent organic sales before reinvesting money into ads. [00:10:15] What's Coming Next Lindsay shares details about the upcoming ads program and how to join the VIP waitlist and grab the free guide covering 10 myths educators believe about ads. Grab the free guide and join the VIP waitlist: lindsaybowden.com/VIPads Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Resources mentioned may contain affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products and resources I truly love and use myself.

  6. Oct 2

    Let's Talk About the TPT Exclusive Seller Update...

    TPT just made a major announcement about its seller program, and there are a lot of questions about what this means for TPT sellers moving forward. In this special episode, Lindsay breaks down the new Exclusive Seller Membership, how it differs from the previous Premium Seller account, what the exclusivity requirement actually means, and what sellers should be thinking about before making any decisions. Key Discussion Points:[00:01:15] TPT’s Major Seller Program Announcement A breakdown of the announcement and the difference between TPT’s Basic, former Premium, and new Exclusive Seller options. [00:04:00] What Does “Exclusive” Actually Mean? Lindsay explains the biggest change: sellers who choose the Exclusive Seller Membership generally cannot sell TPT-eligible digital educational resources on other platforms or their own websites. [00:07:00] What Can You Still Sell Outside of TPT? A look at the exceptions mentioned in TPT’s information, including fonts, clip art, physical products, courses, professional development, Boom Cards, and Kindle books. [00:09:00] TPT’s Upcoming Town Hall TPT is holding a town hall on October 8, and Lindsay shares why she’s waiting to hear more information before making any major moves. [00:11:30] Should TPT Sellers Leave the Platform? Lindsay discusses why simply moving everything to another platform may not be realistic for every seller, particularly sellers who currently depend on TPT’s organic traffic. [00:15:30] What Should You Do Right Now? Don’t rush into a decision. Lindsay explains why she recommends keeping things the same for now, continuing to create and upload, and waiting for additional information before opting into anything. [00:18:00] Does TPT Own Your Resources? Lindsay addresses confusion surrounding intellectual property and explains the distinction she draws between owning your resources and restricting where resources can be sold under an exclusive membership. [00:21:00] Start Preparing Your TPT Business Now Why now is a good time to organize your resource files, covers, thumbnails, and previews so you’re prepared if you decide to sell elsewhere in the future. [00:23:30] Why Diversifying Your Teacher Business Matters Lindsay talks about developing skills outside of TPT—including growing an email list, selling on other platforms, and learning to run ads—so your business isn’t completely dependent on one marketplace. This situation is still developing, and Lindsay will continue following TPT’s updates and sharing new information as it becomes available. Read the TPT Announcement here: https://sellerblog.teacherspayteachers.com/tpt-exclusive-seller/?utm_source=sfmc&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2026-10-01_0600_Core_Sellers_Adhoc_ExclusiveSellerAnnouncement_TopSellers&utm_content=link Sign Up for the October 8 Town Hall: https://click.em.teacherspayteachers.com/?qs=ABB7InYiOjEsImQiOjUwMTZ9AAcAAAAAB0kBbQHx1KSG4G6WBCmexhhuBvHKSyNWLr3mSfsGdnJ4uAKXwkmj2yEELTJ_QNsUz7SUy_5lM1ndxCd54G4zS5u6k7GpLIQgYFv5X8E Free 10-minute KDP Webinar: lindsaybowden.com/fire

  7. Sep 30

    133: The FREE Marketing Tool Every TPT Seller Should Be Using

    Should you have a Facebook business page for your Teachers Pay Teachers store? In this episode, Lindsay breaks down why Facebook can be a valuable free marketing tool for TPT sellers and shares a real-life example from Extraordinary Enrichment. You’ll get a peek at the types of posts that are getting engagement, simple ways to promote your products and freebies, how to use your page to grow your email list, and why setting up a Facebook page now can also help if you decide to run Meta ads in the future. Key Discussion Points:[00:01:15] Should TPT Sellers Have a Facebook Business Page? What a Facebook business page is, how it differs from your personal profile, and why it can be a simple, free marketing tool for your TPT store. [00:03:00] Using Your Facebook Page to Grow Your Email List How your cover image can promote a lead magnet and help turn Facebook followers into email subscribers. [00:04:30] What Should You Post on Facebook? Lindsay shares examples of video, static-image, and text posts and takes a look at what's working for Extraordinary Enrichment. [00:06:30] Using Automated Comments & Messages How automated tools can deliver links when someone comments on a post—and Lindsay's tip for making sure followers actually receive the link. [00:08:00] Simple Posts That Are Getting Engagement From product mockups and giveaways to simple text posts, Lindsay shares examples of content that's generating hundreds of comments. [00:10:30] Growing Your Facebook Page Why consistent posting can help build your audience and how connecting Instagram and Facebook can make posting across both platforms easier. [00:12:00] Set This Up BEFORE You Run Facebook Ads Why Lindsay recommends establishing your Facebook business page before experimenting with Meta ads, including the ability to retarget people who have interacted with your page. [00:14:30] Using Freebies to Get More Eyes on Your TPT Store How freebies can bring potential customers into your store and how tracking links can help you understand where your traffic and sales are coming from. You don't need a complicated posting strategy. Start your page, create a clear banner and profile image, and post when you can. The goal is simply to get more eyes on your resources and create another path for potential customers to find your TPT store. Extraordinary Enrichment TPT Store: https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/store/extraordinary-enrichment Extraordinary Enrichment Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/p/Extraordinary-Enrichment-61577039464781/ Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeSell Education Workbooks with Amazon KDP: https://lindsaybowden.com/KDPEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Resources mentioned may contain affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products and resources I truly love and use myself.

  8. Sep 23

    132: How I Organize My TPT Files and Resources

    If your TPT files are scattered across Canva, Google Drive, and your computer, this episode is for you! Lindsay is giving you a behind-the-scenes look at the simple system she uses to keep her Teachers Pay Teachers business organized. She walks through exactly how she organizes her Canva designs, TPT covers and thumbnails, editable resource files, clip art, and more. Plus, she shares what files she doesn’t bother saving and how she uses Airtable when working with VAs and managing resources across multiple platforms. Key Discussion Points:[00:01:15] How I Use Canva for My TPT Store Lindsay shares what she creates in Canva versus PowerPoint and Excel and why separating projects into folders makes managing a growing TPT store much easier. [00:04:00] Organizing TPT Covers, Thumbnails & Previews A look inside Lindsay's Canva setup, including how she separates cover designs by product type and keeps past previews organized so they're easy to update later. [00:07:00] Creating Templates for Your TPT Business Why templates can save so much time when creating thumbnails, previews, store banners, terms of use pages, lead magnet pages, and other repeatable designs. [00:09:30] How I Organize My Actual TPT Resources Lindsay walks through her folder system for Algebra and Geometry resources and explains why she organizes her curriculum by unit. [00:12:00] Organizing Clip Art & Digital Resource Files Ideas for organizing clip art and reusable digital files in a way that makes sense for your particular TPT niche. [00:14:00] The Files I DON'T Save Why Lindsay doesn't keep PDFs, downloaded cover images, or thumbnail PNGs once they're uploaded—and why keeping the editable versions is usually enough. [00:16:00] Using Airtable to Organize TPT Products How Lindsay uses Airtable to track products, images, prices, links, and updates—and why it's especially helpful when working with VAs or a Pinterest manager. [00:19:00] Creating an Organization System That Works for Your Niche There isn't one perfect system! Lindsay shares ideas for organizing by standards, product lines, bundles, or other categories—and even how AI can help you decide on a system. Ready to grow your TPT store? www.lindsaybowden.com/training Connect further: Join the 1k TPT Challenge: https://lindsaybowden.com/challengeSell Education Workbooks with Amazon KDP: https://lindsaybowden.com/KDPEarn 3-4 figures per month on TPT | https://lindsaybowden.com/startStart or grow your TPT email list | https://lindsaybowden.com/emailAnd make sure to follow me! https://www.tiktok.com/@lindsay.bowden and http://instagram.com/lindsaybowdenWatch full episodes on Youtube + Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@Lindsay.Bowden?sub_confirmation=1 Resources mentioned may contain affiliate links. If you purchase through these links, I may earn a small commission at no additional cost to you. I only recommend products and resources I truly love and use myself.

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The Teacher Business School podcast helps teachers and homeschool moms create and sell their own digital products. Whether you're interested in selling teacher resources on Teachers Pay Teacher (TPT), selling low ticket offers, or selling online courses and memberships, this is the show for you! If you're looking for ways to make passive income, quit your 9-5, start a side hustle, and start earning income that makes an income, give this show a listen!

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