Beside Every Calling

Jill & Debbie

Beside Every Calling is a podcast for those married to ministry leaders who love deeply, serve faithfully, and sometimes wonder where they fit in the midst of it all. Together, we explore what it means to form identity in Christ, cultivate a hidden space with God, and discover a ministry within the calling we live beside—where identity is formed beside the calling, not lost within it. Through honest conversations, practical wisdom you can actually use, interviews with others living in this same space, and a little grace-filled humor along the way, we talk about faith, boundaries, joy, and the everyday realities of life in ministry. This is a gentle, grace-filled space to reconnect with God, reclaim who you are, and create a life you love while honoring a calling that matters deeply. If you’ve ever felt unseen, stretched thin, or quietly longing for something more faithful and more whole—you belong here. Connect with us: We’d love to meet you. Join us on Facebook and Instagram @BesideEveryCalling

  1. 4d ago

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 25: Would We Say YES Again?

    Send us Fan Mail If we knew then what we know now… would we still say yes? Twenty-five conversations later, we’re closing Season 2 of Beside Every Calling with the question underneath so many of them: Would we do it all again? After decades of ministry life, Jill and Debbie look back at what ministry has taught us, what we wish we could tell our younger selves, what we carried that God never asked us to carry, and the unexpected gifts we never could have seen coming. Debbie would tell her younger self:  Don’t hurry. Jill would remind herself:  The pressure isn’t yours to carry. We talk honestly about trying too hard to get things right, worrying about what people thought, carrying other people’s grief as if it were our own, and eventually learning that being present with people matters far more than performing for them. We also talk about the beautiful parts—the friendships that have stretched around the world, the privilege of knowing people’s stories, the rhythms of the church, and learning to trust the slow, quiet work of the Holy Spirit. As Debbie says: “The Spirit isn’t Insta. He’s slow, and He whispers.”  There are things we would do differently.  We’d hurry less. Carry less. Worry less. Sit longer. Listen better. Love the person in front of us. Trust God more. But knowing everything we know now, would we say yes again? Absolutely. JOIN THE CONVERSATION: If you could sit down with your younger ministry-spouse self, what would you tell her or him?What is something you carried in ministry that you now realize God never asked you to carry?Knowing what you know now, would you say yes again—and what has made your “yes” worth it?We’d love to hear your answers. Tell us what resonated, share your story, or let us know what you’d love to hear us talk about in Season 3. Reach out to us anytime at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. And if you know a ministry spouse who is tired, questioning, or simply needs to know someone else understands this strange and beautiful life, send this episode to them. As we close Season 2, thank you for sitting beside us. Thank you for listening, sharing, sending messages, and trusting us with pieces of your stories. We hope this season has reminded you that you are more than the role you fill, more than what others expect from you, and more than what you accomplish. The kingdom of God is still going to happen if you never do another thing. You are loved. You are seen. And your worth was never dependent on how much you could carry. We’re taking a little break, but we’re not disappearing. Join us December 3 for our special Beside Every Calling Christmas episode, and then we’ll be back January 7 for Season 3. Until then, if nobody has told you today: Hang in there. You’ve got this. BESIDE EVERY CALLING | with love, Jill & Debbie #besideeverycalling #ministryspouse #pastorswife #ministrylife #christianpodcast

  2. Oct 22

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 24: The Barnabas Chair — Never Underestimate the Sidekick

    Send us Fan Mail What if one of the most influential roles in ministry is the one no one sees? This week, Jill and Debbie sit down with Pastor David Goodwin for a fascinating conversation about Barnabas—the encourager, supporter, advocate, and ultimate biblical “sidekick” whose influence reached far beyond what carried his own name. And David challenges us to consider: What if being the sidekick isn’t a lesser role at all? During the conversation, Jill gives that space a name: The Barnabas Chair. And if you’re a ministry spouse, chances are you know that chair. It’s not always behind the microphone. Your name may never be on the sermon, the book, or even the ministry. But the people you encourage, the potential you see, the sacrifices you make, and the person you stand beside can create a ripple effect you may never fully see. David walks us through Barnabas’s remarkable story: believing in Paul when others were afraid of him, giving John Mark another chance after he had failed, and eventually stepping back as Paul stepped forward. Barnabas reminds us that influence and visibility are not the same thing. We also talk about what this means for marriage and ministry, why a simple “thank you” from your spouse matters so much, and why churches need to intentionally see the spouses, volunteers, and behind-the-scenes people who quietly make ministry possible. You don't have to be the one holding the microphone to make an extraordinary difference. Sometimes the calling is simply to stand faithfully beside someone else.  JOIN THE CONVERSATION: Who has been a Barnabas in your life—someone who saw something in you, believed in you, or gave you another chance?If you’re sitting in the “Barnabas Chair” right now, where might God be using your quiet faithfulness in ways you can’t yet see?Who is someone serving behind the scenes in your church or ministry who needs to be seen and thanked this week?We’d love to hear from you. Tell us what resonated, share your story, or let us know what you’d love to hear us talk about in a future episode. Reach out to us anytime at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. And if someone came to mind while you were listening, send this episode to them. It might be exactly the encouragement they need today. BESIDE EVERY CALLING | with love, Jill & Debbie #besideeverycalling #ministryspouse #pastorswife #ministrylife #christianpodcast

  3. Oct 15

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 23: The Books We Can’t Stop Recommending

    Send us Fan Mail Some books are good. And some books change something in you. In this episode of Beside Every Calling, Jill and Debbie open their bookshelves and share the books they’ve read, loved, given away, recommended again and again—and, in some cases, needed at exactly the right moment. But this isn’t just a list of favorite books. It’s a conversation about continuing to become healthier emotionally, spiritually, and relationally through every season of life and ministry. We talk about being wounded by people in the church, understanding emotional immaturity, forgiveness, grief, slowing down, relationships, spiritual formation—and why sometimes the healthiest thing you can do is read something simply because it’s FUN. Because the books we need change as we change. If you’re still trying to use the same tools you used a year ago—or ten years ago—and wondering why they aren’t working quite the same way anymore, remember: you aren’t the same person either. Staying healthy means staying teachable. IN THIS EPISODE • Why being hurt by God’s people can be particularly painful—and what we’ve learned from it • Understanding emotional immaturity and learning how to keep growing even when someone else doesn’t • Forgiveness when you can’t forget what happened • The difference between a wound that still hurts and a scar that has become part of your story • Finding help when God and life simply don’t make sense • What it looks like to remove hurry from your life • Growing spiritually, emotionally, and relationally through different seasons • Why the tools you needed in one season may not be the tools you need in the next • Giving yourself permission to read simply for JOY • Remaining teachable and allowing God to continue shaping you through every chapter BOOKS WE MENTIONED CHANGED HOW YOU THINK 📚 Wounded by God’s People — Anne Graham Lotz 📚 Practicing the Way — John Mark Comer 📚 Love Always — Bob Goff 📚 The Circle Maker — Mark Batterson SPIRITUAL GROWTH 📚 Braving the Wilderness — Brené Brown 📚 Emotionally Healthy Spirituality — Peter Scazzero 📚 Fervent — Priscilla Shirer MINISTRY & RELATIONSHIPS 📚 Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents — Lindsay Gibson 📚 Forgiving What You Can’t Forget — Lysa TerKeurst 📚 Love Like That — Dr. Les Parrott 📚 When God Doesn’t Make Sense — Dr. James Dobson 📚 Boundaries — Dr. Henry Cloud 📚 Together for Good — Justin Smith 📚 You Can Still Wear Cute Shoes — Lisa McKay READ FOR JOY 📚 Sensible Shoes (4-book series) — Sharon Garlough Brown 📚 Sisterchicks series — Robin Jones Gunn Some of these books met us in painful seasons. Some challenged the way we think. Some helped us better understand ourselves and the people around us. Some deepened our relationship with Jesus. And some simply reminded us that reading can be FUN. One of the things we’ve learned after years of life and ministry is that we’re not the same women we were ten—or even one—year ago. There are always new things to learn, old things to unlearn, and places where God is still shaping us. We don’t ever want to stop growing. CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION 1. What book has genuinely changed you or changed the way you see something? 2. What’s one book you’ve recommended so many times you’ve lost count? 3. What are you reading right now—for spiritual growth, emotional health, relationships, learning, or simply for FUN? Now we want YOUR recommendations! Tell us in the comments what book we need to add to our reading lists—or email us at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. If you know another ministry spouse who loves a good book or might need one of these recommendations in this season, share this episode with them. Subscribe to Beside Every Calling and join Jill & Debbie each week for honest conversations about identity, relationships, ministry, and continuing to grow beside the calling.

  4. Oct 8

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 22: When Your Wife Is the Pastor — The Male Ministry Spouse

    Send us Fan Mail Beside Every Calling | Episode 22: When Your Wife Is the Pastor — The Male Ministry Spouse What is it like to be the ministry spouse when your wife is the pastor? This week, Jill and Debbie sit down with Trey and Noah—two male ministry spouses with very different stories. One works outside the church and is happiest supporting from behind the scenes. The other serves on church staff alongside his wife. Together, they give us a perspective we don’t often hear. Do male ministry spouses experience the same expectations as women? What does it look like to support your wife’s calling while still being fully yourself? And how do you protect your marriage and family when ministry can so easily take over? Trey and Noah share honestly about supporting their wives, navigating church relationships, the expectations they have—and haven’t—experienced, and some pretty funny moments along the way. Then Noah turns the questions around and asks Jill and Debbie what decades of ministry has taught them. That leads to a reminder Debbie gave Scott during their years in the local church: “Someday you’re going to be an 8×10 to this church—but to our kids and me, you’ll always be the big picture.” Because the church matters deeply. The calling matters deeply. But so do the people God has entrusted to us at home. IN THIS EPISODE: • What it’s like when your wife is the pastor • The expectations male ministry spouses experience • What Trey and Noah have watched their wives navigate as women in ministry • Supporting your spouse’s calling without losing yourself • Navigating church relationships when you’re an introvert • Managing ministry expectations together as a couple • Protecting your marriage and family in ministry • Finding mentors and people who understand ministry life • What decades of ministry has taught Jill and Debbie about staying healthy for the long haul CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION: 1. What spoken or unspoken expectations have you experienced as a ministry spouse? 2. Who is a ministry couple a few steps ahead of you that you could learn from? 3. When ministry gets busy, what helps you keep your marriage and family the “big picture”? We’d love to hear from you. Email Jill and Debbie at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. If this episode encouraged you, share it with another ministry spouse or ministry couple who could use this conversation. Prefer to watch? Find Beside Every Calling on YouTube, where you can watch with closed captions in more than 100 languages. .  Subscribe so you don't miss an episode. Beside Every Calling Where identity is formed beside the calling, not lost within it. #BesideEveryCalling #MinistrySpouse #PastorsWife #PastorsWives #PastorsHusband #WomenInMinistry #MinistryMarriage #MinistryLife #ChristianPodcast

  5. Oct 1

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 21: When Marriage Is Hard — Where Is the Line?

    Send us Fan Mail When Ministry Marriage Is Hard... Where Is the Line? Marriage can be hard. Ministry can be hard. And when the two are woven together, the pressures can be especially complicated. After watching the Netflix documentary Death of the Pastor’s Wife, Debbie and Jill knew they wanted to have a thoughtful conversation about marriage, ministry, and what happens when “hard” crosses a line. In this episode, they sit down with Melissa Burns, a licensed marriage and family therapist in private practice, a coach for those in ministry, and a spiritual director. Melissa has been deeply formed by the church and brings a wide range of ministry and leadership experience to the conversation. She is also currently pursuing a master’s degree in spiritual formation and understands both the joys and the deep valleys that can accompany life in the church. Together, Debbie, Jill, and Melissa talk about why ministry marriages can carry unique pressures—and why being in ministry should never mean accepting behavior that is wrong, unhealthy, controlling, or abusive. They discuss: Why marriage in ministry can be exceptionally hardThe difference between a difficult season and an unhealthy relationshipWhere “hard” can cross the line into abuseWhy unhealthy behavior shouldn’t be excused because someone is a pastor or ministry leaderThe importance of agency within a marriageWhy fear has no place in a healthy marriageWarning signs that something may be wrongThe importance of reaching out for help and allowing trusted people into the situationHow churches and denominational leaders can help create healthier guardrails for ministry familiesThis is a tender and important conversation—not about creating fear or suspicion around marriage, but about recognizing that healthy marriages make room for safety, honesty, agency, and help when it’s needed. IF YOU NEED SUPPORT If something in this conversation feels familiar, you do not have to sort it out alone. Consider speaking privately with a licensed therapist trained in relationship abuse or with a domestic-violence advocate outside your immediate ministry system. If you are a ministry spouse in the Church of the Nazarene and feel safe doing so, you may also reach out to your district superintendent, their spouse, or another trusted district leader. Asking for help is not a betrayal of your marriage, your ministry, or your calling. You are not alone. If you are in immediate danger, call 911 in the United States or contact your local emergency services. In the United States: National Domestic Violence Hotline Call 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) Text START to 88788 Chat at https://www.thehotline.org Outside the United States: Visit https://lila.help to find trustworthy domestic-violence and gender-based-violence services in your country. If your internet activity may be monitored, consider using a safer device. Continue the Conversation 1. What can churches and ministry leaders do to better support healthy ministry marriages? We’d love to hear from you. Email us at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. If Beside Every Calling has encouraged you, please subscribe, share this episode with another ministry spouse, and consider leaving a review. It helps other ministry spouses find this community too.

  6. Sep 24

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 20: You Are Enough. Keep Becoming.

    Send us Fan Mail Beside Every Calling | Episode 20: You Are Enough. Keep Becoming. You are enough. And you’re still becoming. In this episode of Beside Every Calling, Debbie and Jill have an honest conversation about what it looks like to become the healthiest version of yourself—in your marriage, your ministry, your relationships, and even the way you use social media. Comparison can quietly convince us that someone else is doing it better. Their ministry looks more successful. Their marriage looks easier. They seem to have gifts we don’t have. Before long, comparison can feed insecurity and leave us wondering, Am I enough? But becoming healthy isn’t about becoming someone else. It’s about being willing to do the work of becoming the healthiest version of you. Debbie and Jill share honestly about their own marriages and the reality that healthy marriages take intentional work. They share practical tools that have helped them communicate through difficult conversations, make decisions together, and navigate the normal hard seasons that happen behind closed doors—even in ministry families. They also talk about social media, comparing ourselves with other ministries, and learning to recognize when something that inspires one person begins to create insecurity in another. Sometimes becoming healthier means setting a boundary, unfollowing an account, changing a habit, having a hard conversation, or simply paying attention to what is happening inside of you. Getting healthier sounds simple, but it's not easy. And underneath all the growing, changing, and becoming is a truth we don’t want you to miss: YOU ARE ENOUGH! Not because you finally got everything right. Not because your marriage is perfect, your ministry is thriving, or you measure up to someone else. You are enough because God is enough. Debbie also shares a personal update about a recent health struggle and what it has looked like to trust God in the middle of uncertainty. Wherever you find yourself today, keep growing. Keep doing the work. Keep becoming the healthiest version of the person God created you to be. Continue the Conversation 1. Where are you most tempted to compare yourself to someone else right now? 2. What does the healthiest version of you look like in this season? 3. Is there an area of your life, marriage, or ministry where you know there’s some work to do? 4. Is there something you need to change—a habit, a boundary, a conversation, or even who you follow on social media—to become healthier? 5. What would change if you truly believed, “I am enough because God is enough”? Jill mentions the song "Testimony" by Terrian in this episode, you can listen here https://youtu.be/ijm46OEP0zQ?si=_rWq6qCsewwPM0f3 We’d love to hear from you. Email us at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. If this episode encouraged you, please share it with another ministry spouse who might need it. And don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review—it helps more ministry spouses find Beside Every Calling.

  7. Sep 17

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 19: When You Don’t Love the Assignment

    Send us Fan Mail Sometimes you love God. You love your spouse. You believe in the calling. But you just don’t love the assignment. In this episode of Beside Every Calling, Debbie Daniels and Jill Barber have an honest conversation about ministry seasons that simply don’t feel like a good fit. They share personal stories from some of their hardest assignments—seasons marked by difficult relationships, loneliness, disappointment, and years of quietly wondering, “How long are we going to be here?” Together, they talk about what helped them keep going without becoming bitter, how they learned to communicate what they were experiencing to their husbands, and why a difficult assignment doesn’t necessarily mean you heard God wrong. In this episode: •Loving the calling without loving your current assignment •Jill’s “growing my hair out” story and what it taught her about waiting •Praying for your spouse to truly see and understand what you’re experiencing •Creating a safe home when ministry outside your doors feels difficult •The difference between feeling stuck and believing there may still be a way forward •Why time and cultural fit matter when adjusting to a new ministry assignment •Protecting your marriage and your kids during hard ministry seasons •Using counseling, honest check-ins, and simple family conversations   as practical tools •Choosing to let a difficult season make you better instead of bitter If you’re in an assignment you wouldn’t have chosen—or wondering how much longer you can keep doing this—we hope this conversation reminds you that you’re not alone. Hard seasons can end. Healing can happen. And God can still be at work in you, your marriage, and your family while you wait. We close this episode by praying especially for the ministry spouse who feels stuck, unseen, or weary right now. CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION 1. Are you in—or have you ever been in—a ministry assignment you didn’t love? 2. What helped you stay healthy and hopeful in that season? 3. What is one thing you can control right now that could make home feel safer and more life-giving? We’d love to hear from you. Email us at besideeverycalling@gmail.com If you like BEC please do us a favor and leave a review, and subscribe to Beside Every Calling wherever you listen. #BesideEveryCalling #MinistrySpouse #PastorsWife #MinistryLife #MarriageAndMinistry #WomenInMinistry #ChristianPodcast

  8. Sep 10

    Beside Every Calling | Episode 18: Where’s the Line? Opposite-Sex Boundaries in Ministry

    Send us Fan Mail Episode 18: Protecting Your Marriage: Boundaries With the Opposite Sex in Ministry What boundaries actually protect a marriage in ministry? In this episode of Beside Every Calling, Debbie Daniels and Jill Barber are joined by David Nicola—a ministry spouse and the podcast’s editor—for an honest conversation about navigating opposite-sex relationships in ministry. This isn’t about living suspiciously or being afraid of people. It’s about recognizing that healthy guardrails can protect your marriage, the people you serve, your reputation, and the ministry God has entrusted to you. Through real-life stories and lessons learned over years of ministry, Debbie, Jill, and David talk about how seemingly small choices—a text conversation, a lunch, a hug, or simply ignoring that feeling that something isn’t quite right—can gradually move us into places we never intended to go. They also share practical boundaries that have helped their own marriages, including transparency with phones and messages, guidelines for counseling and one-on-one meetings, physical boundaries, and knowing when to listen to your spouse’s concerns even when you don’t see the situation the same way. Because most people don’t wake up one morning planning to damage their marriage or ministry. Often, it happens one small compromise at a time. IN THIS EPISODE, WE TALK ABOUT: •Why guardrails are about protection, not fear •Learning to trust your instincts when something feels off •How small compromises can gradually become bigger problems •Practical boundaries around texting, counseling, meals, travel, hugs, and one-on-one relationships •Transparency with phones, email, and social media •Why listening to your spouse’s concerns matters—even when you disagree •Protecting both your marriage and your reputation •Why boundaries may change as you gain experience in ministry •Encouragement for younger ministry couples who are still figuring out what works for them Healthy boundaries aren’t a sign that you don’t trust your spouse. They can be one of the ways you say, “Our marriage matters enough to protect.” CONTINUE THE CONVERSATION Whether you listen together or talk about it later, use these questions to start an honest conversation: 1. What boundaries have served your marriage well? 2. Is there an area where one of you has felt uncomfortable but you haven’t really talked about it? 3. Are there boundaries you had earlier in ministry that need to change in this season? 4. How can you make it easier for each other to say, “Something about this doesn’t feel right,” without becoming defensive? 5. What is one guardrail you want to strengthen—not because you don’t trust each other, but because your marriage is worth protecting? You don’t need identical boundaries to another ministry couple. The important thing is that you’re talking, listening, and intentionally deciding together what will protect your marriage in the season you’re in. WE'D LOVE TO CONNECT WITH YOU! Beside Every Calling is more than a podcast. We're building a community where ministry spouses can feel seen, understood, and a little less alone. We'd love to hear from you. Email us anytime at besideeverycalling@gmail.com. Know another ministry spouse who needs this conversation? Share this episode with them. It's one of the best ways you can help us grow the Beside Every Calling community. And if you're enjoying the podcast, please take a minute to leave us a review. Your review helps other ministry spouses discover Beside Every Calling and know they've found a place for them, too. Beside Every Calling. Helping you create a life you love beside the calling without losing yourself within it. #BesideEveryCalling #MinistrySpouse #PastorsWife #PastorsWives #MinistryLife #ChristianPodcast

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Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
15 Ratings

About

Beside Every Calling is a podcast for those married to ministry leaders who love deeply, serve faithfully, and sometimes wonder where they fit in the midst of it all. Together, we explore what it means to form identity in Christ, cultivate a hidden space with God, and discover a ministry within the calling we live beside—where identity is formed beside the calling, not lost within it. Through honest conversations, practical wisdom you can actually use, interviews with others living in this same space, and a little grace-filled humor along the way, we talk about faith, boundaries, joy, and the everyday realities of life in ministry. This is a gentle, grace-filled space to reconnect with God, reclaim who you are, and create a life you love while honoring a calling that matters deeply. If you’ve ever felt unseen, stretched thin, or quietly longing for something more faithful and more whole—you belong here. Connect with us: We’d love to meet you. Join us on Facebook and Instagram @BesideEveryCalling

Information

  • Creator
    Jill & Debbie
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    25
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Beside Every Calling
  • Show Website
    Beside Every Calling

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