Getting Unstuck – Cultivating Curiosity

Jeff Ikler

Curiosity sits at the intersection of creativity, effective human interactions, problem-solving and purposeful change. Unfortunately, the pace of life — at home, work, and school — often sidetracks our natural curiosity. So, let's see the familiar from a different angle or something new as a possibility to consider.

  1. 6d ago

    420 Avoiding Groupthink? A Leadership Practice Demonstrated on the Way to Pluto

    Hi, I'm Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I'm periodically releasing mini-episodes of "Cultivating Curiosity." In about 10 minutes, I'll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini-episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. This week's mini-episode comes from a May 2023 interview with Dr. Alan Stern. Today, Dr. Stern is an aerospace executive and remains a planetary scientist. In 2015, he was the Principal Investigator on the historic New Horizons mission to Pluto. In that role, he had ultimate responsibility for the entire research project, overseeing its scientific, technical, and administrative aspects. The situation In 2015, after a nine-year journey, the New Horizons spacecraft was poised to complete its an historic flyby of Pluto. But success was not guaranteed. For the New Horizons' mission to be successful, all of the spacecraft's data-gathering instruments had to work flawlessly starting seven days before reaching its closest point to the planet and for at least two days after. All of the maneuvering of the seven data-gathering instruments – what they would look at, what they would measure – had to be preprogrammed into the craft's computer. There was simply no way someone back at Mission Control could drive the spacecraft in real time, because by 2015 New Horizons was three billion miles from Earth. A signal traveling at the speed of light would take 4.5 hours to reach the speeding spacecraft. In that amount of time, whatever Mission Control had been directing the spacecraft to photograph or measure would likely have passed. But preprogramming didn't guarantee success either. New Horizons, traveling at 35,000 miles an hour, had to reach a specific point in space within a nine-minute window, or "the box," as the team referred to it. If the craft were early or late to that point, the computer would be directing the instruments to look at or measure something during the critical flyby period that wasn't centered in their field of view – or potentially not there at all. And there would be no time to recalibrate them. Orbiting Pluto for a redo was out of the question because the spacecraft didn't have the necessary fuel to execute such a move. Orbiting Pluto wasn't even in the mission plan. If the box were missed, the potential to collect data would be lost. The mission would have failed. A grace period of only nine minutes. 540 seconds. After three billion miles. And nine years. The good news is that Mission Control scientists were carefully monitoring the spacecraft as it approached the ideal central point and calculated that it was less than two minutes off – way inside the nine-minute box. Everyone in Mission Control breathed a sigh of relief. But what if we…? Scientists and engineers are, however, perfectionists, so the question quickly arose, "Do we make a correction? Do we scratch back a few more important seconds to make sure our instruments are pointing where we want them to point?" Days before the critical flyby, there was still time to do so. It was a tempting proposition. Dr. Stern picks up the story. Once we got in the box, the navigation teams recommended that we do one more engine firing to really put it in the middle of the box. And we had an analysis done that showed that if we didn't change anything if we stayed where we were, didn't go to the middle of the box but we're just in the box, we would get every single scientific observation One that we had set out to do. And yet they were recommending, and in fact, the engineering and science teams, were recommending that we just nail it, we go right down the middle of the pike. And I rejected that as the leader of the mission. Because at that point, we were going to get everything we came for. And while we might have done a few things a little bit better, the risk that that engine burn might have gone haywire, or sent the spacecraft into some fetal position where it needed help from Mama back on Earth before or we could carry out the flyby was real. And I didn't want to take any risk. Once we were in the box. You know, there's an old saying Better is the enemy of good knife. Yeah, right. It was good enough. And as you've seen from the results, we really nailed it. So I'm glad that we, we backed away from that, because it looks to me like more risk than reward, To summarize, as the mission leader, Dr. Stern gathered everyone on his team together to review the navigation calculations, and then took three powerful steps: 1. Stern asked each of his team members to voice their opinion on the wisdom of making the correction. One by one, around the table, each leader of a critical aspect of the program voiced "Go," recommending the correction. 2. Stern waited and took notes until everyone had the opportunity to voice his or her opinion. He then made the decision: "No go." 3. He then asked a critical question, "Is there a must-do reason to make the correction when we're already safely within the box?" He went back around the room and asked each section leader to respond. After hearing from everyone, Stern stood with his original "No go." It was simply not worth the risk of introducing a potential programming error this late in the game. New Horizons soon flew past Pluto at 35,000 miles an hour, a mere 7,500 miles above the dwarf planet's surface. As the spacecraft began to "phone home" amazing images and other data, it was clear that New Horizons – the first mission to Pluto – was an unqualified success. "Good enough" was truly good enough. The idea Leaders typically struggle with three questions in scenarios like the one before the New Horizons team, and they do so because they feel "All eyes are on me." • Do they feel they need to make the immediate call without input because they're the leader, or do they ask to hear from all members of their team on the critical question? • Do they speak first because they're the leader, or do they weigh input from the team and speak last? And finally, • Do they push for "better," or do they stand pat when there is evidence that "good enough" is truly good enough? Here's Dr. Stern's further rationale for the process. I always speak last. As the mission leader, I'm a firm believer that, well, I might set the table, I might start a meeting off, here are our objectives, here's what we should consider that the final gonna go on my part should be considered one, having heard from all the experts that know more than me about each individual area, my job is to go broad, and make sure that the mission carries out all of his objectives. And their job is to go deep, and make sure that each little piece is operating properly. So I was last in that poll. And I did reject what was a unanimous decision by everyone else. And it was a little lonely, but you know what, I was confident in it. And it worked out just fine. Dr. Melissa Hughes, a neuroscience geek researcher and author of Happier Hour with Einstein, Another Round, reinforces Dr. Stern's steps as a meaningful way to avoid "groupthink," which she defined as "a psychological phenomenon that happens when people in a group willingly or unconsciously commit to decisions they don't necessarily agree with to avoid creating emotional tension or conflict with their colleagues." In Dr. Stern's case, no one on his team wanted to be the only "No go" and buck the "groupthink." The consequences of groupthink, as Dr. Hughes describes, can be significant: "When people…put harmony and cohesion above the critical evaluation and analysis of the outcome, they stifle their thoughts, refrain from asking the hard questions and avoid exposing potential pitfalls. This often leads to irrational or problematic decisions." In New Horizons' case, the consequences of groupthink could have been disastrous. A program note: If you're a space geek like I am, I've included a couple of illustrations of the mission in the shownotes on my website.

    10 min
  2. Jun 16

    What is the Priority?

    Hi, I'm Jeff Ikler, host of the Getting Unstuck - Cultivating Curiosity podcast. This summer, I'm periodically releasing mini-episodes that, in under 10 minutes, dive into an evergreen idea from a previously broadcast episode. The content in these mini episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. This week's episode was inspired by a conversation with educator Dr. Deb Gustafson in December 2019, when she explained how, as a principal, she had applied Jim Collins' flywheel principle from Good to Great in her elementary school. The idea The flywheel is an individual's, team's, or organization's intentional ordering of only five to six key, repeated actions to achieve desired outcomes. Critical to success is the idea that the first action triggers the next, which in turn triggers the next. Each action is thus dependent on the one that came before it. What prompted Deb's effort was her recent inheritance of the district's worst-performing elementary school. Rather than throw a series of unrelated strategies at the problem, Deb used the flywheel as a thinking tool to help her architect a plan for sustainable improvement. Two important principles of the flywheel concept are ONE, a clear explanation of the desired result toward which everyone in the organization can work, and TWO, the selection of the all-important priority step from which the remaining elements cascade. Here's how the two elements played out in Deb's planning. After studying her student population, Deb realized that her students were extremely dispirited, lacked self-esteem, and felt they had no future. Given those findings, she decided that the desired result couldn't just be a lofty academic goal; it had to reflect the needs of the whole student. So she structured the desired results as: "Help kids become the best people they can be." Deb decided that, to achieve the desired results, the all-important priority step in the flywheel had to be hiring teachers who loved kids. As she told me, "I can teach people how to teach, but I can't teach them how to love. What these kids needed was to feel valued and capable of succeeding. If we did that well, academic success would follow." I've included Deb's flywheel model in the show notes on my website. Take a minute to review the steps and how they were designed to achieve the school's desired results. And the results, you ask? Deb's school quickly became the district's highest-performing elementary school, and her approach served as a model for other leaders and schools throughout the district. Extending the idea The beauty of the flywheel is that it constrains thinking to what is essential to bring about desired results. Instead of wild brainstorming that results in "We could do this and this, and this," the flywheel demands discipline: "If we do these few things in this order really well, we'll increase the likelihood of success." But imposing that limitation is really challenging for lots of organizations. Author of the essential read, Essentialism, Greg McKeown argues for a relentless pursuit of "less, but better." One of the biggest mistakes he notes is to dilute what is important by having "priorities." Here he explains the surprising history of the word priority and how its meaning has shifted over time: The word "priority" came into the English language in the 1400s. It was singular. It meant the very first or prior thing. It stayed singular for the next five hundred years. Only in the 1900s did we pluralize the term and start talking about priorities. Illogically, we reasoned that by changing the word we could bend reality. Somehow we would now be able to have multiple "first" things. One of the strategies that I really liked from McKeown's book is the idea of W.I.N. : asking yourself "What's Important Now?" Yes, it's a very mindful question because it helps us from sliding back into the unresolved past or ruminating about the yet-to-be-seen future. As McKeown concludes "It is mind-bending to consider that in practical terms, we only ever have now." And W.I.N.? is a flexible question in that it can be asked relative to the macro level of life where we're constantly trying to bring work, play, family into harmony and flow. (Note, I don't say "balance" because there ain't such a thing, is there?) And it can be asked at the micro level regarding all those discrete work or home projects staring us in the face. So…push yourself a bit, and ask "What's Important Now?" For inspiration, you can always watch the famous clip from the movie City Slickers, which never fails to get the juices flowing. Referenced Interview with Dr. Deb Gustafson Good to Great by Jim Collins

    6 min
  3. Jun 9

    How Can Leaders Create the Conditions for Staff to Succeed?

    Guest Rich Gassen has worked at UW-Madison for over 15 years as Production Manager and, more recently, as Director at Digital Publishing and Printing Services. He focuses on empowerment, autonomy, and process improvements with his team. His work mantra has always been "Show Up and Participate," which continues to guide him in his lifelong learning. He also leads a community of practice for supervisors at UW-Madison, focusing on training and development. Summary In this episode, Rich discusses his leadership journey and the principles that guide his work. Drawing on more than 35 years in the printing industry, Rich explains how influential mentors shaped his belief that effective leaders provide both autonomy and support. He recalls a manager who trusted employees to make decisions while remaining available during difficult moments—a model that continues to inform his own leadership style. Rich emphasizes that leadership is fundamentally about people. He believes employees perform best when they feel valued, understood, and connected to the larger purpose of their work. Whether by sharing customer praise, encouraging innovation, or involving staff in major decisions, such as relocating the print shop, he seeks to create an environment where people feel a sense of ownership and agency. A strong advocate for continuous learning, Rich helped build a campus-wide community of practice for supervisors, providing opportunities for networking, book discussions, and professional development. He stresses the importance of listening, asking questions, and resisting the urge to have all the answers. As leaders advance, he argues, their role shifts from solving problems to removing barriers that prevent others from succeeding. Throughout the conversation, Rich highlights transparency, curiosity, and habit-building as essential leadership skills. Ultimately, he sees leadership not as a destination but as an ongoing learning process focused on helping people grow, contribute, and thrive. The Essential Point Great leadership is less about having the answers and more about creating the conditions for others to succeed. Leaders serve their teams best when they listen, build trust, remove obstacles, and help people see the significance of their contributions. Social Media & Referenced LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richgassen/ Campus Supervisors Network Homepage: https://campussupervisorsnetwork.wisc.edu/ UW Printing site with article on innovation during a change initiative: https://printing.wisc.edu/2024/05/23/the-dpps-printshop-move-finding-innovation-through-challenge/ Jeff's LinkedIn article   About Jeff Jeff Ikler is the Director of Quetico Leadership and Career Coaching. "Quetico" (KWEH-teh-co). He works with leaders in all aspects of life to identify and overcome obstacles in their desired future. He came to the field of coaching after a 35-year career in educational publishing. Prior to his career in educational publishing, Jeff taught high school U.S. history and government. Jeff has hosted the "Getting Unstuck—Cultivating Curiosity" podcast for 5 years. The guests and topics he explores are designed to help listeners think differently about the familiar and welcome the new as something to consider. He is also the co-host of the Cultivating Resilience – A Whole Community Approach to Alleviating Trauma in Schools, which promotes mental health and overall wellness. Jeff co-authored Shifting: How School Leaders Can Create a Culture of Change. Shifting integrates leadership development and change mechanics in a three-part change framework to help guide school leaders and their teams toward productive change.

    55 min
  4. Jun 2

    417: What's One Question You Can Ask to Build Capacity?

    Hi, I'm Jeff Ikler, host of the Cultivating Curiosity podcast. It's summer, and our thoughts naturally turn to making the most of longer days and warmer weather. We're desperate to be outside. With that in mind, I'm periodically releasing mini episodes of "Cultivating Curiosity." In about 10 minutes, I'll dive deeper into a key point from a previously broadcast evergreen episode. The content in these mini episodes is designed to be readily applicable to your life or work. The idea This week's mini episode was inspired by a July 2021 interview with Dr. Melissa "Missie" Patschke. Missie has since retired, but at the time of our conversation, she was principal of Upper Providence Elementary School in the Spring-Ford Area School District in Southeastern Pennsylvania. Her message, born of 20+ years of experience and reinforced by the COVID pandemic, was that organizations move forward with strength if they're led by leaders, not a leader. As a school leader, your role is not to be the person pulling everyone up that hill or being number one at all times. Your role is to build that capacity and be number two, so that other people can be number one. And the more number ones you build, the better you're all going to be. Taking the idea deeper The necessity of building others' capacity to lead is not a new idea. It's not universally practiced, though, because leaders typically get stuck trying to build capacity in one of three ways: Conceptually, they get "it." They get the need and wisdom behind growing others. But their inner critic pulls them aside, puts an arm around them, and whispers, "Yeah, but if they lead, what's your role? How's it going to make you look?" They forget that "building" or "growing" ends in "i–n–g," implying that it's an ongoing process, or at least a process of gradual release. It's not a one-and-done effort, meaning one day your staff is being led and the next day they're leading. As a leader, you just don't know how. So let's take a small step toward number 3. In my mind, the best example of building capacity came from what may at first seem like the most unlikely of places: the military. We usually think of life in the military as giving and receiving orders: "I say 'Jump!'" and you jump. But one savvy ship captain saw things differently. When Captain David Marquet inherited what was then the worst-performing submarine in the U.S. Navy, he immediately realized why: the 135-member crew was largely doers, not thinkers. They were used to taking and conditioned to take orders. But Marquet knew that to effectively run something as complex and as deadly as a nuclear submarine, you had to have people who were thinking about what they were doing and how what they were doing impacted the rest of the ship's performance. Putting the idea to work OK, you're not the captain of a nuclear submarine, but if you're leading an organization, a department, or even a team, the implications of your collective work are significant. You need to be surrounded by thinkers and not just doers. If you buy into that wisdom, but you're not used to leading in an intent-based way, the next time someone comes into your office with a question, instead of providing the answer, start by asking the simple question: "What do you think we should do?" And probe with a follow-up question or two to get at their all important rationale. Asking the question "What do you think we should do?" with genuine curiosity may be the hardest shift for some managers who are used to and comfortable with simply giving direction. To build your own capacity to ask that open-ended question, show your inner critic the door and lead with the phrase "Hmmm, I don't know." And then ask, "What do you think we should do?" One note of caution: when you say, "I don't know," mean it. Don't play bingo with your staff by having them guess an answer you might already have in mind. The tone you use to open a discussion and invite their thinking is critical. In fact, try not to have the answer unless it's a desperate, time-sensitive situation. Be curious about the ideas your staff can generate. Probe for clarity and the ability to implement. Trust me on this. I made the mistake of not leading this way early in my career because I wanted everyone to rise to my brilliance. I wanted them to come to the answer that was in my head. That approach simply bred frustration and distrust among my staff.

    7 min
  5. May 26

    416: How Can We Make Work Feel and Be More Meaningful?

    Guest After 11 years at IBM, Brooke Erol left a "great job on paper" to pursue a more aligned, purpose-driven life. She founded Your Best Life Inc. to help professionals find meaning at work, and later Purposeful Business to support leaders in building people-centered organizations. She is the author of More Than A Paycheck and Create a Life You Love, and speaks globally on leadership and purposeful work. Summary In this conversation, career coach and author Brooke Erol explores the changing nature of work, fulfillment, and identity in an era shaped by burnout, layoffs, and artificial intelligence. Drawing from her own experience at IBM, she reflects on realizing early in her career that many people were "chasing the weekend" rather than finding meaning in their work. That realization eventually led her to write More Than a Paycheck, a guide designed to help individuals develop greater self-awareness and agency in their careers. Brooke argues that self-awareness is foundational to meaningful work, yet modern life leaves little room for reflection. She encourages people to intentionally create time to examine what energizes them, what no longer serves them, and which limiting beliefs may be shaping their choices. Throughout the discussion, she emphasizes that traditional career formulas—go to college, get a corporate job, retire happily—are no longer reliable in today's unstable job market. The conversation also examines the disruptive impact of AI, especially on younger workers and recent graduates, while highlighting the growing value of trade and skilled labor careers. Brooke encourages people to remain adaptable, continuously learn new skills, and consider side projects or entrepreneurial paths alongside traditional employment. The discussion closes with reflections on retirement, purpose, and identity. Brooke and Jeff agree that fulfillment comes not from stopping work entirely, but from continuing to contribute, learn, connect, and pursue activities that make life meaningful. The Essential Point Brooke's central message is that people must take greater ownership of their careers and lives by developing self-awareness, questioning inherited assumptions about work, and intentionally pursuing work that aligns with who they are. She also stresses that fulfillment and purpose are not luxuries reserved for retirement—they are essential parts of a healthy, sustainable life at every stage. Social Media Website: www.yourbestlifeinc.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/careeryoulove/ LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/ozlemerol LinkedIn Newsletter: Career Path YOU Love: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/7234651608981065729/ All My Books Page: https://www.yourbestlifeinc.com/books More Than a Paycheck: https://www.yourbestlifeinc.com/books/morethanapaycheck A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle About Jeff Jeff Ikler is the Director of Quetico Leadership and Career Coaching. "Quetico" (KWEH-teh-co). He works with leaders in all aspects of life to identify and overcome obstacles in their desired future. He came to the field of coaching after a 35-year career in educational publishing. Prior to his career in educational publishing, Jeff taught high school U.S. history and government. Jeff has hosted the "Getting Unstuck—Cultivating Curiosity" podcast for 5 years. The guests and topics he explores are designed to help listeners think differently about the familiar and welcome the new as something to consider. He is also the co-host of the Cultivating Resilience – A Whole Community Approach to Alleviating Trauma in Schools, which promotes mental health and overall wellness. Jeff co-authored Shifting: How School Leaders Can Create a Culture of Change. Shifting integrates leadership development and change mechanics in a three-part change framework to help guide school leaders and their teams toward productive change. Show Credits "Getting Unstuck" is commercial-free. It's brought to you by Jeff Ikler, his amazing guests, and Neil Hughes, the best engineer a podcaster could ask for. "Getting Unstuck" theme music: Original composition of "Allegro ben ritmato e deciso" by George Gershwin. Arrangement and recording courtesy of Bruno Lecoeur.

    1h 3m
  6. May 19

    Is It Possible to Reinvent Oneself Without Having All the Answers? Pt 1

    Guest JoAnne Duncan has had a varied career, from Alaskan fly-fishing guide to elementary teacher and principal, always focused on valuing the strengths of every student and staff member. Though she's stepped away from her career in public education, she continues to learn, grow, and inspire others. A lifelong learner, she finds joy and insight outdoors, exploring nature, and discovering new ideas, always growing, always learning, and always curious.   Summary In this episode, JoAnne reflects on her unconventional path into education, her transition into school leadership, and ultimately her decision to leave the profession. Initially drawn to teaching through a lifelong inclination to instruct and guide others, she became a principal after experiencing ineffective leadership that she felt failed both teachers and students. Her administrative career, particularly during and after the pandemic, became increasingly defined by crisis management rather than instructional leadership. She describes the growing demands of handling high-needs students, safety concerns, constant meetings, and a lack of systemic support. These pressures led to chronic stress, emotional exhaustion, and a decline in her physical health. Despite leading a "dream school" with a strong staff, the cumulative toll forced her to step away in 2024. Since leaving, JoAnne has focused on what she calls "radical self-care," prioritizing physical and mental health through activities like yoga, swimming, and surfing in Hawaii. This period of recovery has restored her well-being and opened space for reflection about her future. While she continues to enjoy substitute teaching, she is exploring new directions, particularly those involving helping others, possibly through fitness, motivation, or personal growth. The conversation emphasizes uncertainty as a productive space. Inspired by the idea of "falling in love with questions," JoAnne commits to exploring possibilities without rushing toward definitive answers, remaining open to curiosity, serendipity, and personal evolution. A key takeaway Sustained burnout from systemic pressures can force even the most dedicated educators to step away—but recovery, reflection, and openness to uncertainty can create space for a more aligned and healthy next chapter. References / Links Instagram — @newave_nana  LinkedIn — https://www.linkedin.com/in/joanneduncan990/

    49 min
  7. May 12

    How Do Memorials Engage Visitors Physically and Mentally?

    Guest Dr. James E. Young is Distinguished University Professor of English and Judaic Studies Emeritus at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, where he has taught since 1988, and Founding Director of the Institute forHolocaust, Genocide, and Memory Studies at UMass Amherst. Professor Young is the author of Writing and Rewriting the Holocaust (Indiana University Press, 1988), The Texture of Memory (Yale University Press, 1993), which won the National Jewish Book Award in 1994, At Memory's Edge: After-images of the Holocaust in Contemporary Art and Architecture (Yale University Press, 2000), and The Stages of Memory: Reflections on Memorial Art, Loss, and the Spaces Between (University of Massachusetts Press, 2016), which won the National Council for PublicHistory Book Award for 2017. Professor Young is a frequent consultant and judge on proposed memorials. Co-host Irene Stern Frielich was a guest on Episode 370: "Walking Where History Happened: A Daughter's Holocaust Journey." Irene is the daughter of a German Jewish Holocaust survivor—but for much of her life, the story remained unspoken. In 2017, after rediscovering her father's testimony, Irene set out to physically retrace his escape route from Nazi Germany through his survival in Holland. The result was a journey of reconciliation and healing. Her award-winning memoir, Shattered Stars, Healing Hearts, explores trauma, courage, and connection across generations. Summary Dr. James Young explores how memorials differ from monuments and how they shape collective memory. While monuments are often static and fixed, memorials are dynamic, experiential spaces that invite visitors to engage emotionally and physically—becoming part of what Dr. Young calls the "performance" of memory. Drawing on examples such as the Vietnam Veterans Memorial, Holocaust memorials, and the 9/11 Memorial, Dr. Young explains that the most effective memorials balance abstraction and history, allowing visitors to interpret meaning across generations. He emphasizes that powerful designs avoid prescribing a single emotional response; instead, they open space for reflection, discomfort, and personal connection. Dr. Young also highlights the importance of naming individuals, noting that listing victims humanizes loss and magnifies its scale. He discusses innovative approaches like "meaningful adjacencies" at the 9/11 Memorial and decentralized memorials such as Stolpersteine (stumbling stones), which embed remembrance into everyday life and create ongoing engagement. A recurring theme is "living memory"—memorials that evolve through participation, maintenance, and reinterpretation by future generations. Dr. Young acknowledges the tension in memorializing tragedies in which communities no longer exist, stressing the need to restore not just the absence but the lives once lived. Ultimately, he invites visitors to approach memorials with openness, allowing their own emotional responses to deepen understanding of history and self. The Essential Point The most powerful memorials don't dictate meaning—they create spaces where visitors actively experience, interpret, and carry forward memory in ways that remain meaningful across generations. Social Media Occupied Words: What the Holocaust Did to Yiddish

    1h 1m
  8. May 5

    Working to Find Common Ground on Public Lands Amid Competing Interests

    Guest Minnesota native Aaron Hebeisen grew up hunting, fishing, and recreating outdoors. His lifelong passion for wildlife led him to earn an Animal Ecology degree from Iowa State University. He has worked for the Minnesota Conservation Corps, the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources, and the U.S. Department of Agriculture on wildlife disease research, and is now the Field Operations Coordinator with Backcountry Hunters & Anglers, supporting chapters in 10 states across the Midwest and the southern U.S. Summary This episode explores the meaning, management, and future of public lands in the United States. The discussion begins by defining public lands—roughly 640 million federally managed acres overseen by agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management and the U.S. Forest Service—and emphasizes their "multiple-use" mandate, balancing recreation, resource extraction, and conservation. Aaron highlights BHA's mission to advocate for these lands on behalf of all users, not just hunters and anglers, framing Americans as "public landowners" with both rights and responsibilities. A key theme is the complexity of land and water access, illustrated through conflicts over stream access laws in states like Illinois, where differing definitions of "navigability" create legal gray areas and tension among stakeholders. The conversation also examines policy advocacy, including coalition-building, lobbying, and navigating bipartisan politics. Aaron describes BHA's approach as "radically purple"—engaged but nonpartisan—focused on finding common ground across competing interests. A major case study is the rollback of mining protections near the Boundary Waters Canoe Area via H.R. 140, which Aaron argues could set a precedent for weakening environmental safeguards nationwide. Despite such challenges, the episode remains grounded in a broader philosophical reflection: public lands are a uniquely American inheritance that fosters personal connection, humility, and stewardship. Ultimately, Aaron underscores that protecting these lands requires active civic engagement—if people don't participate, they risk losing access to what is collectively theirs. A key takeaway Public lands belong to all of us, but their future depends on whether people actively engage in protecting them—through stewardship, advocacy, and participation in the political process. References / Links Backcountry Hunters and Anglers Beyond Fair Chase: The Ethic and Tradition of Hunting LinkedIn Instagram Facebook

    57 min
5
out of 5
32 Ratings

About

Curiosity sits at the intersection of creativity, effective human interactions, problem-solving and purposeful change. Unfortunately, the pace of life — at home, work, and school — often sidetracks our natural curiosity. So, let's see the familiar from a different angle or something new as a possibility to consider.

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