Holding The Line

Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy
  • 5.0 (12)
  • SOCIETY & CULTURE

Holding the Line is a podcast from the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund sharing firsthand stories and expert insights into what it really means to serve and protect in America today.

Episodes

  1. 6D AGO

    Harbor of Grace: How First Responders Can Get Help—Before It’s Too Late

    In this powerful and deeply personal episode, we sit down with Rob Quick, Executive Vice President and COO of Harbor of Grace Recovery Center, to talk about the hidden mental health crisis facing first responders. With over two decades in law enforcement, Rob shares his own journey—from a high-performing police officer struggling with alcohol and cumulative stress, to becoming a leader in recovery and advocacy for others walking the same path. Together, we unpack the realities behind the badge: the trauma, the burnout, the stigma, and the quiet ways it all adds up over time. What We Cover:Why mental health challenges are more prevalent among first respondersThe cumulative impact of trauma—“stones in a backpack” that eventually break the strapHow substance use, PTSD, burnout, and grief are often deeply connectedThe cultural stigma that keeps officers from asking for help—and how that’s changingWhy peer-based treatment environments are uniquely effectiveWhat accessible, insurance-covered care actually looks likeHow departments can support officers before crisis hitsRob’s Story: From Officer to AdvocateRob opens up about his own experience seeking treatment after years in a “work hard, play hard” law enforcement culture. His recovery didn’t end his career—it reshaped it. Now, he helps first responders across the country find healing, connection, and a path forward. First responders are often seen as strong, resilient, even invincible—but the reality is far more complex. The weight they carry doesn’t disappear when the shift ends.Resources & SupportIf you or someone you know is struggling, you can learn more or get help through: Harbor of Grace Recovery Center 🌐 https://harborofgracerecovery.com 📞 24/7 support is available—make the call: 443-502-8606

    43 min

  2. APR 23

    Rafael Mangual: The Cost of Getting Crime Wrong

    Rafael Mangual knows crime.  As a criminal justice policy analyst, legal commentator, and author, he has become a household name for his work on policing, public safety, and crime policy. He is the Nick Ohnell Fellow at the Manhattan Institute, where his research focuses on crime trends, prosecution, bail reform, and the broader impacts of criminal justice policies on communities. His commentary and analysis have also appeared in major media outlets, including The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, The New York Times, and he is a frequent guest on national television and radio programs. His book Criminal (In)Justice blows apart common narratives about mass incarceration, policing, and systemic bias in the U.S. criminal justice system. We’re honored to have Rafael join us on Holding the Line for a discussion of recent crime trends, law enforcement strategies, and the impact of policy changes on public safety—including insights into hyperlocal crime phenomena, the effects of drug legalization, and the importance of proactive policing. Episode Links: Get Rafael’s book: https://manhattan.institute/book/criminal-injustice New York Post: https://nypost.com/author/rafael-a-mangual/ Manhattan Institute: https://manhattan.institute/person/rafael-a-mangual Read some of his latest op-eds on criminal justice and policing: New York’s Self-Induced Repeat Offender Problem https://www.city-journal.org/article/new-york-criminal-history-prior-arrests (NYT Gift Link!) The Left Keeps Getting It Wrong on Crime https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/24/opinion/crime-police-progressive-policy.html?unlocked_article_code=1.dFA.aDkA.uP9o20DVaYRM&smid=url-share What possible justification do Dems have for not letting ICE deport a sex offender? https://nypost.com/2026/02/02/opinion/what-possible-justification-do-dems-have-for-not-letting-ice-deport-a-sex-offender --- If you’re enjoying this first season of Holding the Line, please be sure to subscribe and leave us a 5 star review on the podcast platform of your choice. And if you haven’t already subscribed to our Substack—what are you waiting for? Sign up now: https://substack.com/@leldf

    24 min

  3. APR 15

    Reality Check: Police Almost NEVER Use Deadly Force

    How often do law enforcement officers actually use force? After digging into the data, it turns out violent encounters are incredibly rare.  Over a million 911 calls, only 0.1% involve ANY use of force. This episode debunks common myths about police use of force, highlighting the gap between public perception and reality. Sean and Jason analyze survey data, media reports, and real-world cases to clarify misconceptions and discuss the impact on law enforcement and community trust. And just for fun, Sean obliterates the Washington Post “fatal force” database.

    26 min

  4. APR 10

    Former Prosecutor Patrick Kenneally: Mugged By Reality

    This week Sean sat down with his old friend Patrick Kenneally, former states attorney for a county outside Chicago who, as he says, was “mugged by reality” by his wild experiences with the criminal justice system and the radical policies and practices he saw up close - and their deadly outcomes. This was a highly entertaining episode - Patrick is a great storyteller and we know you'll really enjoy this one. He discusses the importance of accountability, challenging traditional views on addiction as a disease—and proved that strict enforcement of drug laws saves lives.

    46 min

  5. APR 1

    Consent Decrees, Demystified: What Everyone Needs to Know

    Consent decrees: what are they, when did they start—and what has the impact been on law enforcement and crime?  Our guest, Bob Scales breaks down the political, financial, and social ramifications of these agreements and discusses why they often fail to achieve meaningful reform. Key Topics: The history and legal background of consent decrees, starting from Rodney King and the 1994 pattern of practice law How the Obama administration dramatically increased the use of consent decrees and the shift towards monetization and extended enforcement The political dynamics influencing which police departments are targeted and how investigations are often predetermined The impact of consent decrees on police morale, costs, and crime rates, supported by city-specific examples like Seattle and Phoenix The role of activists, attorneys, and political actors in shaping and perpetuating consent decree processes Case studies of cities like Baltimore, Phoenix, and Memphis that challenged or resisted federal intervention The pitfalls of relying on consent decrees for police reform versus internal improvements and voluntary change

    42 min

  6. MAR 25

    The Lawyer Taking On José Garza and the Wren Collective

    Doug O'Connell is a former special forces officer and retired Army Colonel (Jason apologizes for mistaking him for a former JAG officer) with a passion for defending innocent military members and law enforcement officers. Based in Austin, Texas, Doug and his team have gone toe to toe with the radical Soros-backed DA in Travis County many times in defense of wrongfully-charged law enforcement officers—and they just keep winning. Doug even got the court to sanction Garza's office after catching them withholding exculpatory evidence at trial in 2022... and he's doing it again! Doug has filed a Motion to Dismiss the criminal case pending against LELDF supported officer Chance Bretches—alleging the Travis County District Attorney’s Office purposefully withheld exculpatory evidence during discovery. Jose Garza is one of the 40+ prosecutors nationwide whose offices are controlled by the Wren Collective. Dig into our report on the Wren Collective: https://www.policedefense.org/outsourcing-justice/ Don't forget to hit subscribe—and leave us a five star rating and review!

    27 min

  7. MAR 17

    Aftermath of Obama's War on Cops: The East Haven Four (Part Two)

    Part 2: After the Verdict This is the second part of our in depth interview with former East Haven police officer Dennis Spaulding—one of four officers indicted by the Obama DOJ in 2012 after he and his team uncovered a massive illegal immigrant fraud network using illegal license plates and insisted on doing their jobs—enforcing the law—in their small Connecticut town. Last week the first part of this interview clearly struck a nerve. We heard from so many of you—predominantly new listeners who were shocked by the story, who had never heard of the case... and who want to know what happened next! This conversation has been one of our most anticipated follow-ups yet. Today in part two we pick up where that story left off: The activist priest who interfered with his duties, the trial... and Dennis takes us inside his time in federal prison—what he experienced, how he endured it, and the personal toll it took on him and his family. He reflects on what it’s like to go from serving your community as a police officer to serving time as a federal inmate—when his youngest daughter was a newborn. We also explore the aftermath of the case: what happened to the East Haven Police Department—and how this prosecution continues to impact him and his fellow officers to this day. Finally, we zoom out to the bigger picture: What a pardon by President Trump would mean for these men and their families.

    19 min

  8. MAR 11

    Aftermath of Obama's War on Cops: The East Haven Four (Part One)

    Former East Haven, Connecticut police officer Dennis Spaulding joins us to share his horrifying story—and it's one you’ve likely never heard. In 2012, the Obama DOJ indicted four officers from the East Haven Police Department—Dennis Spaulding, John Miller, David Cari, and Jason Zullo—after a federal investigation into allegations that members of the department had violated the civil rights of Latino residents. This was nothing but a politically motivated prosecution fueled by anti-police activism and federal pressure to make an example out of a small police department enforcing immigration laws. These men were not corrupt. They were not rogue actors. They were committed, decorated professionals engaged in the unglamorous work of enforcing the law in a community plagued by fraudulent vehicle registrations, gang activity, and illegal enterprises. Yet because many of those arrested happened to be undocumented immigrants, the DOJ sought to brand the entire department as racist. Spaulding was sentenced to five years in federal prison. In this interview, Spaulding shares his side of the story for the first time in depth—and his hopes that President Trump will issue him and his fellow officers a pardon that will allow them to move on with their lives. Coming Next: In Part 2, we discuss the aftermath of the trial, Spaulding’s time in federal prison, and the broader questions his case raises about federal civil rights prosecutions of police officers.

    40 min

  9. MAR 6

    Sheriff Mike Chapman: Leadership Under Pressure in Loudoun County, Virginia

    Leftwing activists have been targeting Sheriff Mike Chapman of Loudoun County, Virginia over his support of School Resource Officers for elementary schools in the district... but the slogans they're screaming don't make any sense. The Sheriff joins the podcast to discuss the unique aspects of law enforcement in his jurisdiction, give insights on school security and safety, and so much more. Sheriff Mike Chapman has devoted a lifetime to law enforcement. His book Step Up and Lead addresses the ups and downs leaders face, examples of what works and what doesn't, and how his unique "Step Up" strategy of improved Service, Technology, Efficiency, and Professionalism can help you succeed in your own organization. Get your copy here: https://stepupandleadbook.com

    38 min

  10. FEB 25

    Fatal Falsehoods: The Truth About Police Use of Force

    This episode discusses the impact of false narratives and misinformation on public perceptions of law enforcement—specifically regarding use of force. We address the prevalence of myths and misconceptions about police violence and the influence of these narratives on public opinion and policy. The truth? Fatal police shootings are unlikely and uncommon. In fact, police shootings are incredibly rare. Using the Washington Post’s Fatal Force database and a 2023 Johns Hopkins University study, only .003% of police encounters results in fatal or injurious shooting. Data, polls, and surveys cited in LELDF report Fatal Falsehoods: https://www.policedefense.org/fatal-falsehoods/ SOURCES FOR OPENING CLIPS: Rep. Hakeem Jeffries, April 20, 2021: https://www.C-span.Org/clip/news-conference/user-clip-hakeem-jeffries-we-have-a-police-violence-problem-4-20-2021/5194003   Bernie Sanders, March 3, 2019: https://www.Presidency.Ucsb.Edu/documents/remarks-campaign-rally-chicago-illinois-0 Rep. Jamaal Bowman, Feb 6, 2023: https://www.c-span.org/program/us-house-of-representatives/house-sessions-part-3/623706

    20 min

  11. FEB 17

    When Good Cops Face Criminal Charges: The Mark Wagner Story

    What really happens when innocent law enforcement officers are wrongfully charged with crimes? In 2022, Special Agent Mark Wagner confronted a violent career criminal who resisted arrest. Acting lawfully to protect himself and his partner, Mark did exactly what he was trained to do. A full investigation confirmed his actions were justified. A radical prosecutor charged him anyway. Mark joins the podcast to describe the devastating toll his ordeal took on his family, finances, and career. He shares what it’s like to face prison after three decades of honorable service—and the relief of a not guilty verdict. Mark’s story is not an anomaly. It reflects a growing pattern of activist prosecutions that are destroying the lives and careers of good officers simply for enforcing the law. We examine how this weaponization of the justice system is chilling proactive policing, eroding morale, and putting public safety at risk nationwide. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love your feedback. Email podcast@LELDF.com with any questions or thoughts and please subscribe to Holding the Line wherever you get your podcasts—and leave a five-star review to help support the show. Thanks for listening.

    23 min

  12. FEB 16

    The Modern War On Cops

    Welcome to the inaugural episode of Holding the Line—cutting through myths, media narratives, and political rhetoric to explore the realities facing law enforcement today. What is the “war on cops” and when did it begin? In this episode, hosts Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy lay the foundation for the podcast by tracing the history and evolution of the anti-cop movement in America. They examine key cultural, political, and media moments that have profoundly shaped public perception, policy decisions, and the day-to-day realities of policing. If you enjoyed this episode, we'd love your feedback. Email podcast@LELDF.org with any questions or thoughts and please subscribe to Holding the Line wherever you get your podcasts—and leave a five-star review to help support the show. Thanks for listening.

    23 min
  • 12 Episodes

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
12 Ratings

About

Holding the Line is a podcast from the Law Enforcement Legal Defense Fund sharing firsthand stories and expert insights into what it really means to serve and protect in America today.

Information

  • Creator
    Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy
  • Years Active
    2K
  • Episodes
    12
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2025 Jason Johnson and Sean Kennedy

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