BE THAT LAWYER

Steve Fretzin

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

  1. Fiona Stevenson: How Law Firms Can Win Clients in the First 2% of the Experience

    17h ago

    Fiona Stevenson: How Law Firms Can Win Clients in the First 2% of the Experience

    A potential client rarely picks up the phone to call a law firm on their best day—and how that first moment is handled can make or break the relationship. In this episode, you’ll learn how to turn branding, digital footprint, and intake into a consistent, human experience that wins trust and converts more of the right clients.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Fiona Stevenson discuss: Unreasonable hospitality and the “2%” difference Brand vs. marketing for law firms Defining mission, values, and ideal clients Consistent intake and first-impression systems Human connection vs. AI in client intake   Key Takeaways: A law firm’s brand is defined less by its logo and more by what people say when the lawyers aren’t in the room. Clarity on mission, values, and the types of clients you do and do not want to serve should act as a north star for all marketing and client interactions. Consistency across every touchpoint (including your website, email, phone, live chat, and in-person conversations) is essential for building trust and a recognizable brand. The first phone call often happens on one of the worst days in a client’s life, so warmth, empathy, and active listening are non‑negotiable in intake. While AI can enhance efficiency behind the scenes, real humans at the end of the phone line remain critical to delivering the kind of experience that truly reflects a firm’s reputation.   "Brand is what people are saying about you when you're not in the room. You might not have even spoken to that person, and they've already got a perception about what your brand is." —  Fiona Stevenson   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Fiona Stevenson: Fiona Stevenson is Associate Director of Marketing at LEX Reception. She brings 20 years of B2B marketing experience across SaaS, professional services, retail, and the public sector. Her particular interest is customer insights - she believes good marketing starts with an honest understanding of what buyers actually need. She writes about legal operations, client experience, and practical growth for law firms.   Connect with Fiona Stevenson:   Website: https://www.lexreception.com/blog/author/fiona/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fionahstevenson/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    32 min
  2. Sherry Mason: Ambition, Prestige, and Knowing When It’s Time to Leave Your Firm

    3d ago

    Sherry Mason: Ambition, Prestige, and Knowing When It’s Time to Leave Your Firm

    Stuck on the “wrong mountain” in your legal career but unsure what to do next? In this episode, career coach and former lawyer Sherry Mason breaks down how ambitious attorneys can separate prestige from true fulfillment, avoid burnout, and plan a smart, strategic exit instead of a panic-fueled leap. In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sherry Mason discuss: Ambition vs. prestige in legal careers Skills, situation, and identity as sources of dissatisfaction Burnout, autonomy, and control for lawyers How spending 20% of your time on aligned work drastically reduces burnout A five-step framework for planning a career transition   Key Takeaways: Many high-achieving lawyers climb career “mountains” chosen for them by others, only to realize later that prestige alone doesn’t guarantee a fulfilling life. Career dissatisfaction typically stems from one of three areas (skills, situation, or identity) and it’s critical to understand which one is actually driving your unhappiness before you make a big move. Burnout often reflects a loss of autonomy and misalignment between daily work and personal values, not just long hours or compensation.  Research suggests that if just 20% of your time is spent on the work that most lights you up, your risk of burnout can drop dramatically, even if the other 80% is less enjoyable. A thoughtful, stepwise approach of clarifying your criteria, forming hypotheses, testing them through conversations, reaching the right decision-makers, and weighing trade-offs can turn a vague urge to quit into a strategic, lower-risk transition.   "You can do anything, but you can't do everything, and a lot of times we work on climbing to the top of a mountain, and sometimes it is a mountain that someone else has told us would be the right mountain for us to climb. " — Sherry Mason Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again. Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers. Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/ Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/ Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/ About Sherry Mason: Sherry Mason is the founder and principal coach at Daymark Career Coaching, where she has been advising and guiding professionals through career transitions since 2005. Grounded in an 18-year background in higher education, her experience includes serving as the former Dean of Students at the University of Maine School of Law, as well as a decade working as a Career Coach and Pre-Law Advisor at Bowdoin College and Tufts University. She holds a B.A. in Geology and Geophysics from Yale University and a J.D., summa cum laude, from the University of Maine School of Law, where she graduated first in her class. Sherry brings a deeply multi-disciplinary approach to her practice, holding credentials as an Accredited Financial Counselor alongside specialized training in navigating transitions, public speaking, racial equity, and intergroup dialogue facilitation. Connect with Sherry Mason:   Website: https://daymarkcareers.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sherryfm/ Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    34 min
  3. Jimmy Lai: Turning LinkedIn into a Law Firm Growth Engine

    Jun 11

    Jimmy Lai: Turning LinkedIn into a Law Firm Growth Engine

    In this episode, you’ll hear how an immigrant entrepreneur leveraged authenticity, storytelling, and smart content strategy to turn a resume platform into a powerful engine for referrals, hiring, and personal brand.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jimmy Lai discuss: Using LinkedIn as an “Instagram” for lawyers and professionals Immigration journey, E-2 visa risk, and launching a law firm from scratch Clarifying goals on LinkedIn: clients, brand, or relationships Authenticity, lived experience, and personal storytelling in content Hooks, comments, and practical tactics to grow reach and engagement   Key Takeaways: Treating LinkedIn as a place to learn, be entertained, and build real relationships can transform it from a static resume into a dynamic growth channel. Before posting, get crystal clear on whether your primary goal is client acquisition, personal branding, or relationship-building, and let that drive your strategy. Consistent content built around a few focused pillars and rooted in lived experience tends to outperform generic, “professional-only” posts. Engagement doesn’t start with posting; thoughtful, value-adding comments can be the safest and most effective way to warm up and build relationships. Sustainable business growth often requires letting go of the need to do everything yourself and delegating to capable people who can reliably handle 80% of the work.   "My big mistake as an entrepreneur was thinking that I'm the best at everything, and I need to do everything myself… we didn't hit exponential growth until I was ready to let go." —  Jimmy Lai   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Jimmy Lai: Drawing from a diverse, multicultural background and a multilingual K-12 education spanning Taiwan, the United States, Japan, Germany, and England, Jimmy has always possessed a global perspective. This unique background, combined with his experience as an international student, fueled his passion for immigration law and his desire to help others achieve the American Dream. After earning his undergraduate marketing degree from the University of Central Oklahoma—where he was honored as the sole recipient of the prestigious Top Central Man award—he went on to complete his JD/MBA at the University of Oklahoma in 2021. Rather than taking the conventional route of joining an established firm as a junior associate, Jimmy co-founded Lai & Turner Law Firm PLLC in 2022 alongside his close friend Braden Turner to "do law differently." As the firm's managing attorney, Jimmy has guided Lai & Turner through rapid growth, expanding its services from immigration to include estate planning, criminal defense, real estate, and personal injury, all while ensuring every client receives premier representation rooted in the firm's core values.   Connect with Jimmy Lai:   Website: https://www.laiturnerlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jimmylai-jdmba   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    32 min
  4. Karlton Butts: Attorney Development, Culture, and the Real Drivers of Retention

    Jun 8

    Karlton Butts: Attorney Development, Culture, and the Real Drivers of Retention

    Law firms are spending heavily to recruit great lawyers, then losing them because of broken culture, unclear paths, and weak leadership. In this episode, discover how intentional hiring, smart onboarding, and authentic leadership can transform retention and performance at every level of your firm.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Karlton Butts discuss: Phil Jackson’s team quote and Bulls-era leadership Law firm culture, mission, and values Attorney development plans and onboarding strategy Cross-practice communication and breaking down silos Transparency, compensation, and listening to associates on retention   Key Takeaways: Retention begins long before someone thinks about leaving; it starts with how firms recruit, interview, and assess for alignment on values like work ethic and culture. Effective onboarding includes personalized development plans, clear growth paths, and early conversations about strengths, aspirations, and what success looks like at the firm. When leaders invest time in one-on-one conversations and cross-practice connections, lawyers feel a stronger sense of belonging to the entire firm rather than a single siloed group. Even in firms with closed compensation systems, consistent transparency about expectations, investment in growth, and visible support can significantly increase loyalty and engagement. The most impactful retention work often comes from examining the data on why people leave, listening to those who stay, and quickly fixing the core issues that cause avoidable departures.   "If they maximize their potential, it strengthens the team, but also the strength of the team is each individual." — Karlton Butts   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Karlton Butts: Karlton Butts is a Certified Executive Coach, keynote speaker, and the #1 Amazon bestselling author of The Soundtrack of Leadership, who leverages over 25 years of diverse industry experience to help organizations eliminate operational friction and build high-performing cultures. His unique professional perspective spans engineering roles at NASA and McDonnell Douglas, Fortune 500 consulting with Booz Allen Hamilton, practicing intellectual property law at Loeb & Loeb, and serving as a tech startup CEO and entertainment executive. Today, through his signature Leadership Soundcheck™ framework, Karlton masterfully blends powerful music metaphors with practical business strategies to help leadership teams realign their vision, strengthen team harmony, and stay perfectly in rhythm with their mission.   Connect with Karlton Butts:   Website: https://karltonspeaks.com/ , https://karltonbutts.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/karltonbutts/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    32 min
  5. Sylvia Garibaldi: Turning Complex Legal Services into Clear, Client‑Winning Marketing

    Jun 4

    Sylvia Garibaldi: Turning Complex Legal Services into Clear, Client‑Winning Marketing

    Learn how to turn complex legal services into clear, compelling marketing that actually converts. In this episode, you’ll hear practical strategies for repurposing content, strengthening your online presence, and building referral relationships that consistently feed your law practice.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Sylvia Garibaldi discuss: Niche marketing for divorce and legal professionals Positioning, messaging, and understanding your ideal client Repurposing podcasts, webinars, and video for multi-channel marketing Why referrals aren’t converting like they used to Building referral partnerships through webinars and LinkedIn   Key Takeaways: Growth comes from consistent, repeated action paired with learning and improvement, not just doing more of the same. Clear positioning and messaging are critical so referral partners and prospects instantly understand who you serve, what you do, and the results you deliver. Repurposing a single piece of content like a webinar or podcast into social posts, articles, and lead magnets is “marketing 101” and dramatically reduces the content burden. Referral conversion now depends heavily on your curated online presence, including your website, social media, podcast appearances, and especially a strong LinkedIn profile with social proof. Effective referral relationships require intention, follow-up, and the right partners; they’re built over time through trust, value, and consistent communication, not one-off meetings.   "In business and life, we tend to want to have the outcome first, but in reality, it does take time, it takes doing those reps and consistency, and so for me, doing that repeatedly has helped me build that habit." —  Sylvia Garibaldi   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Sylvia Garibaldi: Sylvia Garibaldi, CEO and Founder of SG and Associates, is a business strategist and speaker who helps service-based entrepreneurs around the world to grow their business to 6 figures and beyond, in a way that is aligned and authentic to them. She is the creator of the Serve First, Sell-to-Many Program that has helped many of her clients achieve outstanding results. Over the course of 14 years, Sylvia has helped hundreds of financial, legal, mediation, and divorce professionals to grow their business and become leading experts in their field through results-driven marketing. Sylvia is a featured expert and speaker in leading publications and professional associations across the globe.   Connect with Sylvia Garibaldi:   Website: https://im-campus.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sylviagaribaldi/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sylvia.sgandassociates/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    33 min
  6. Clay Stelzer: Radical Responsibility and the Path to Full Aliveness

    Jun 1

    Clay Stelzer: Radical Responsibility and the Path to Full Aliveness

    What would you be willing to risk for “full aliveness”? In this episode, leadership coach Clay Stelzer unpacks radical responsibility, unconscious fear patterns, and how courageous self-awareness can transform the way you lead, work, and live.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Clay Stelzer discuss: The meaning of “full aliveness” and positive selfishness Radical responsibility vs. victim, blame, and hero patterns Unconscious fears around security, approval, and control Feedback, delegation, and leadership blind spots Handling triggers, anger, and emotional energy as a leader   Key Takeaways: You can’t create a fulfilling life or career without first getting radically honest about what you truly want and what you’re currently sacrificing to please others. Most of the outcomes people dislike in their lives are driven by reactive, fear-based decisions made without intention. Leaders are constantly influenced by three unconscious fears: threats to security, approval, and control, and these fears quietly shape decisions around feedback, delegation, and team dynamics. Taking radical responsibility means noticing your patterns, acknowledging your part in any situation, and choosing to learn rather than blame, shame, or play the hero. Emotional triggers and anger shouldn’t be buried; when you move that energy in healthy ways, you regain access to clarity, curiosity, and better leadership choices.   "If you could be absolutely selfish and hurt no one's feelings, what would you want? Just understanding that is so important, because then you can get clear about what am I sacrificing or what am I compromising." —  Clay Stelzer   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Clay Stelzer: Clay Stelzer is an executive coach, public speaker, and founder of 15sixty, where he helps high-performing leaders, founders, and senior teams get unstuck, reclaim professional alignment, and take radical responsibility for their lives and businesses. Grounded in the principles of Conscious Leadership, Clay draws on a rich professional background that includes building a global team coaching practice at Salesforce, where he supported over 150 international teams and leaders. He pairs his extensive coaching credentials—including an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC) designation, ORSC certification, and a Conscious Leadership Group certification—with a BA in Psychology from the University of Illinois and an MBA from Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business. Known for his deep presence, fierce honesty, and rare ability to challenge leaders without judgment, Clay creates the vital conditions for trust, clarity, and bold collective leadership from his home in Glen Ellyn, Illinois, where he lives with his family and their black lab.   Connect with Clay Stelzer:   Website: https://15sixty.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    33 min
  7. Scott Mason: Rewriting Your Lawyer Story for Growth and Freedom

    May 28

    Scott Mason: Rewriting Your Lawyer Story for Growth and Freedom

    Trapped in a “successful” legal career that still feels miserable? In this episode, Scott Mason reveals how toxic myths, rigid roles, and fear-based stories quietly sabotage lawyers’ happiness, business development, and long-term success, and how to rewrite your narrative into a heroic one.   In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Mason discuss: Storytelling, symbolism, and the narratives lawyers live by The five “toxic myths” and how they trap attorneys Identity vs. role and redefining who you really are Mindset, risk-taking, and breaking through fear in business development Revenue diversification, near-death wake-up calls, and life lessons   Key Takeaways: The stories you tell yourself about business development, success, and your career become the symbolic scripts that ultimately define your identity and legacy. External validation and social expectations can trap lawyers in careers and lifestyles that look impressive on the outside but feel empty or misaligned on the inside. Confusing your professional role with your core identity creates fragility; separating the two opens space for growth, reinvention, and more authentic choices. Mindset work is not “optional” if you want sustainable business development. Unexamined myths around risk, failure, and sales can quietly sabotage your efforts. Overreliance on a single revenue stream or professional lane is dangerous; diversifying how you create value and income is both a business and a life-preservation strategy.   "You're living out the ritual myth when you engage in behaviors or ways of being over and over and over again, even though they no longer serve you." —  Scott Mason   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Scott Mason: Scott Mason is an executive leadership coach, keynote speaker, and founder of My Freedom Rocks, where he specializes in helping attorneys and corporate leaders transform their careers by dislodging "toxic myths" and unlocking professional freedom. A graduate of Columbia Law School, he spent over 25 years working as an attorney and C-suite executive in the government and non-profit sectors, including serving as second-in-command of New York City's central administrative law court, before successfully scaling and running a multi-city manufacturing company. Today, he channels his deep corporate, legal, and entrepreneurial experience into a signature, mythology-inspired coaching framework designed to catalyze personal charisma, build resilience, and ignite authentic leadership.   Connect with Scott Mason: Website: https://www.myfreedomrocks.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Myth_Slayer LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themythslayer/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    38 min
  8. Jordan Ostroff & Jeremy Baker: Scaling a Solo Law Firm Without Losing Your Life (Part 2)

    May 25

    Jordan Ostroff & Jeremy Baker: Scaling a Solo Law Firm Without Losing Your Life (Part 2)

    The real challenges begin when your solo practice finally starts to take off. In this episode, you’ll learn how to manage growth, hire wisely, protect your time, and build a profitable, sustainable firm instead of drowning in low‑value work. In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Jordan Ostroff, and Jeremy Baker discuss: Constraints and growing pains of a solo law firm Time management, delegation, and letting go Revenue vs. systems and when to build processes Finding clients through networks, content, and clear positioning Hiring strategy, vetting candidates, and building for profit   Key Takeaways: Growth brings new constraints, and the job of a solo is to constantly identify which constraint matters most right now and address it without creating a bigger problem elsewhere. Tracking time and ruthlessly eliminating low‑value tasks is essential; answering phones and doing your own books will keep you stuck in first gear. Revenue should come before heavy process-building, but documenting how you do things early makes onboarding future hires dramatically easier. Defining an ideal client and then going where those people already gather turns scattered marketing into focused, repeatable business development. Profitability and the kind of life you want should drive decisions about firm size, hiring, and practice areas—not what other lawyers around you are doing.   "The beauty of life is you get to make your own scorecard for 99% of things, so make sure you have the right scorecard." —  Jordan Ostroff   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Join the Be That Lawyer Community and connect with ambitious lawyers who are serious about growing their book of business, strengthening their brand, and becoming confident, consistent rainmakers.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! LEX Reception: https://www.lexreception.com/partners/bethatlawyer Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Jordan Ostroff: Jordan Ostroff is the CEO of Driven Law and Carpe Diem Consulting. A former prosecutor and the first lawyer in his family, Jordan overcame $200,000 in early business debt to build a thriving, low-volume personal injury practice. Now the best-selling author of Love Your Law Firm, he works 20–25 hours a week, allowing him time for family and coaching other attorneys to achieve a similar high quality of life.   About Jeremy Baker: Jeremy Baker is a veteran construction attorney and litigator representing owners, developers, and design professionals. In his sixth year of solo practice, he specializes in cost-efficient solutions for issues like contract negotiation and sustainable design. While an experienced litigator in 30+ venues and dozens of arbitrations, Jeremy prioritizes dispute avoidance and alternative dispute resolution. An early proponent of the Guided Choice Dispute Resolution System, he provides strategic advocacy to resolve high-stakes claims without the need for traditional litigation.   Connect with Jordan Ostroff:  Website: https://www.legaleasemarketing.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jordan-ostroff/   Connect with Jeremy Baker:   Website: https://designbuildlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeremysbaker/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    33 min
4.9
out of 5
56 Ratings

About

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

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