The Game Changing Attorney Podcast with Michael Mogill

Michael Mogill
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How can you become a game changer? Michael Mogill, Founder and CEO of Crisp, has used his mastery of marketing for lawyers to grow his company to an 8-figure powerhouse. In just a few years, Crisp has helped thousands of attorneys adapt to the new legal landscape, differentiate themselves from the competition, and earn millions in new revenue. In every episode, you’ll hear from law firm entrepreneurs and market leaders — people who flourish in the face of adversity, challenge the status quo, and define what it means to be a game changer. We investigate success stories and business growth and scalability strategies that can help you attract your ideal clients. Plus, discover hidden insights and actionable advice on how company culture and employee engagement, marketing and advertising, and management and hiring fit into the big picture. What do all our guests have in common? These successful attorneys and business owners prove that the key to innovation is a game-changing mindset. If you want to run your law firm like an entrepreneur, achieve a greater ROI, and build a world-class organization that stands the test of time, then you’re in good company. Subscribe to the Game Changing Attorney Podcast and get ready to take your business to the next level. For more information, visit https://www.crisp.co/podcast/

  1. 448. AMMA — Confessions of a CEO: Yes, We Are All Just Winging It

    18H AGO

    448. AMMA — Confessions of a CEO: Yes, We Are All Just Winging It

    Most firm owners are more uncertain than they let on. The ones performing at the highest level just have better frameworks to keep moving forward anyway. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill field three listener questions that circle the same uncomfortable admission: most firm owners are less certain than they look, and the people watching them aren't sure what to make of it. Michael gets into what it actually means to build a firm worth owning, how to read whether a firm is succeeding on skill or circumstance, and what it really takes to step out of someone else's shadow and lead on your own terms. Here's what you'll learn: Why feeling like you're winging it is not a sign something is wrong, and what success as a firm owner actually requires How to tell the difference between a firm owner making skilled decisions and one who has just been lucky Why the best leadership style is the one that produces results, regardless of what it looks like from the outside These questions come up privately all the time. This episode is where they finally get answered. ---- 01:48 – Michael opens with a Disney story that turns into a lesson on persistence and refusing to accept arbitrary limits 10:50 – Michael defines what it actually means to be a successful business owner 11:56 – Michael explains why most entrepreneurs feel like they are making it up as they go 13:28 – The difference between a business that depends on you and one that actually runs without you 15:17 – How to tell the difference between a lucky firm owner and a truly skilled one 15:48 – Why great leaders rely on decision-making frameworks instead of gut instinct alone 23:12 – Michael explains why leadership is about driving results, not being liked ---- Links & Resources: Roy McIlroy Tim Cook Steve Jobs Andy Jassy Jeff Bezos Amazon Web Services ---- Learn what sustainable growth can look like for your firm at crispcoach.com. ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 443. Poker Face: The Framework for Navigating Professional Uncertainty with Tiffany Michelle 407. AMMA — Why Playing It Safe Is the Most Dangerous Strategy 203. AMMA — How to Know If You Are NOT Cut Out for Entrepreneurship

    28 min
  2. 447. The Power of Stories on Life and Business with Kindra Hall

    2D AGO

    447. The Power of Stories on Life and Business with Kindra Hall

    The story you never tell is the one that could have changed everything. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Kindra Hall, best-selling author, keynote speaker, and expert on strategic storytelling in business. Kindra has spent over a decade teaching leaders how to stop communicating in marketing copy and start connecting through the one thing the human brain is biologically wired to receive: a story. In this conversation, Michael and Kindra unpack why storytelling is the most underused tool in a leader's arsenal, what separates the stories that convert from the ones that fade, and how the narratives we tell ourselves are either fueling or quietly sabotaging our potential. Here's what you'll learn: The four essential business stories every firm owner needs and how to tell each one without sounding self-indulgent or salesy Why customer stories that start with the win are missing the most important part, and how to fix them so prospects actually see themselves in the story How to identify the limiting internal stories holding you back and use your own history to rewrite the ones keeping you stuck Your story isn't just how you got here. It's the most strategic asset you have. Are you using it? ---- Show Notes: 02:38 — Kindra's origin story and how a fifth-grade assignment launched a career in storytelling. 08:09 — Why AI saturation is driving leaders back to human connection and storytelling. 09:36 — What the best brands get right about storytelling and where most go wrong. 12:07 — The neuroscience of attention and why the brain is biologically wired to receive stories. 14:11 — The four essential business stories every leader needs to master. 14:47 — How to tell your founder story without making it about you. 18:04 — Why most client testimonials fail and what a great customer story actually looks like. 25:44 — The internal stories that keep leaders stuck and how to rewrite them. ---- Links & Resources: Kindra Hall Stories That Stick by Kindra Hall Choose Your Story, Change Your Life by Kindra Hall National Storytelling Festival Airbnb Buffalo Bills ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 199. Jesse Cole — Change the Game, Break the Rules, and Create an Unforgettable Experience 174. Joey Coleman — Never Lose a Client Again: Creating Memorable Experiences to Gain an Advocate for Life 36. Ryan Deiss — Truth Over Tactics: Marketing Strategies That Actually Work

    36 min
  3. 446. AMMA — How to Know If Hard Work Is Worth It

    MAR 19

    446. AMMA — How to Know If Hard Work Is Worth It

    The hardest part of building something real isn't the work. It's waiting for the work to matter. In this AMMA episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill explore one of the least discussed truths about business growth: the lag between effort and result. From the quiet judgment you'll face for decisions others don't understand, to the compounding power of doing the same boring thing for years, this episode unpacks why most entrepreneurs quit right before the breakthrough. If you're questioning whether what you're doing is actually working, this conversation will reframe how you measure progress. Here's what you'll learn: Why caring less about what others think becomes easier (and more valuable) as you get older How to recognize when slow progress is actually compounding momentum, not wasted effort What separates entrepreneurs who scale from those who pivot too early If you're doing the right thing but not seeing results yet, this episode is your reminder to trust the process a little longer. ---- 01:49 — Michael and Jessica open the AMMA by reflecting on what has genuinely gotten easier with age and experience. 02:25 — Michael explains how small technological conveniences slowly reshape daily habits and expectations. 05:05 — Michael questions whether too much automation weakens problem-solving instincts. 07:02 — Why recovery changes as you get older and what that teaches about respecting physical limits. 08:20 — Michael reflects on how maturity changes the way you interpret challenges and handle stress. 10:11 — Michael explains why leaders cannot respond to every message, request, or opportunity. 11:00 — The leadership tradeoff between being accessible and protecting your focus. 12:23 — Michael breaks down how to decide which problems actually deserve your attention. 13:50 — Why watching someone succeed with less effort should inspire you, not frustrate you. 21:40 — The difference between rewarding effort and rewarding results (and why one builds firms that scale). 25:39 — Why the decisions you made in 2015 matter more to your life today than anything you did last year. ---- Links & Resources: Tesla Autopilot Waymo Johann Wolfgang von Goethe ---- Learn what sustainable growth can look like for your firm at crispcoach.com. ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 401 — AMMA — From Girl Dad to CEO: The Michael Mogill Playbook 387 — AMMA — Stop Cleaning Up Their Mess: The Secret to a Self-Sufficient Team 143 — AMMA — Ask Michael Mogill Anything: Teslas, Distractions, and Rebuilding from Zero

    31 min
  4. 445. How to Make Money, Keep Money, and Realize You Don’t Need It with Morgan Housel [Encore Edition]

    MAR 17

    445. How to Make Money, Keep Money, and Realize You Don’t Need It with Morgan Housel [Encore Edition]

    The way you think about money has almost nothing to do with spreadsheets and everything to do with who you are. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Morgan Housel, New York Times bestselling author of The Psychology of Money and partner at the Collaborative Fund. With millions of copies sold and translations in over 50 languages, Morgan has spent his career studying not what the market will do next, but why we make the decisions we make with money. In this conversation, Michael and Morgan explore how personal experience shapes financial behavior, why the wealthiest people are often driven by something other than wealth, and what it actually means to use money as a tool for a better life. Here's what you'll learn: Why managing money is so new that we're still figuring out the rules, and why that means most people are learning as they go How your personal history with money shapes every financial decision you make, often in ways you don't realize What separates people who accumulate extreme wealth from those chasing it, and why the answer is rarely about money itself If you want to build wealth that lasts, you have to start by understanding the psychology driving every decision you make. ---- Show Notes: 03:57 — Why managing money for retirement is so new that there hasn't been a generational knowledge transfer yet. 05:19 — The social work principle that all behavior makes sense with enough information, and how it applies to financial decisions. 12:38 — The hardest financial concept to master is "enough," and how moving goalposts prevents happiness. 14:05 — Social comparison as the root of all financial unhappiness, and why there's always someone with more. 22:40 — The biggest financial risk is always what no one is talking about because you're not prepared for it. 28:13 — How savings without a specific goal gives you options and flexibility when the world surprises you. 30:07 — The highest form of wealth is waking up every morning and saying, "I can do whatever I want today." 31:44 — The difference between being rich and being wealthy, and why wealth is what you don't see. 40:26 — What it takes to turn down $1 billion at age 20, and why ultra-wealthy founders are rarely driven by money. 43:52 — What being a game changer means, and why the most admirable people are living extraordinary lives that no one knows about. ---- Links & Resources: The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel Same as Ever by Morgan Housel Collaborative Fund Bill Gates Mark Zuckerberg Jeff Bezos Elon Musk Scott Galloway Chris Rock Warren Buffett ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 306. AMMA — From Ramen to Rolex: Celebrating Milestones Wisely 264. Bill Perkins — Die with Zero: Getting All You Can from Your Money and Your Life 223. Chad Willardson — Achieving Financial Freedom: Strategies for Building Abundant Wealth

    46 min
  5. 444. AMMA — Why "No Problems" is Your Biggest Problem

    MAR 12

    444. AMMA — Why "No Problems" is Your Biggest Problem

    Revenue is a vanity number. The only scoreboard that matters is what you actually take home. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill answer three listener questions that all point to the same uncomfortable truth: the absence of problems is not a sign that everything is working. It is usually a sign that you have stopped looking. This AMMA covers the metrics that actually matter, the complacency that creeps in when growth feels stable, and the leadership decisions that do not get easier the longer you wait to make them. Here's what you'll learn: Why profit, not revenue, is the only number worth building a strategy around What to do when smooth operations start to feel more like a warning than a win How to stop letting one difficult conversation hold your entire firm hostage Stop waiting for the situation to get worse before you do something about it. This episode is the push you need. ---- 1:46 – Michael discusses going to bed at 9pm, and explains how temporal discounting makes the habit so hard to build. 7:53 – The first question turns into a bigger conversation about what revenue actually tells you, and what it doesn't, when you're trying to diagnose why a firm isn't growing. 9:56 – Michael argues why chasing more cases is often the wrong lever, and what happens to your margins when volume becomes the strategy. 11:38 – The second question opens a conversation about what it means when everything in your firm feels fine, and why that feeling is worth being suspicious of. 12:44 – Michael makes the case that every firm owner eventually faces the same choice: create the pressure yourself or wait for the market to do it for you. 14:46 – The third question is about a managing partner who has been underperforming for a year. Michael and Jessica dig into what's really behind the decision not to act. 18:37 – Michael identifies what it looks like when a leadership team is choosing feelings over progress, and what it actually takes to change that. ---- Links & Resources: Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke The Game Changing Attorney by Michael Mogill Shawshank Redemption ---- Learn what sustainable growth can look like for your firm at crispcoach.com. ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 405. AMMA — What it Takes to 10x Everything 399. AMMA — Why Sleep and Nutrition Are Secret Weapons for Scaling Firms 52. Brian Chase — Aligning Passion and Purpose

    22 min
  6. 443. Poker Face: The Framework for Navigating Professional Uncertainty with Tiffany Michelle

    MAR 10

    443. Poker Face: The Framework for Navigating Professional Uncertainty with Tiffany Michelle

    The cards you're dealt matter far less than what you do with your emotions when you pick them up. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Tiffany Michelle, world-class poker player, ESPN commentator, and one of the most recognizable faces in professional poker, to unpack what the game reveals about decision-making, emotional regulation, and how leaders can compete at the highest level. Tiffany brings the mindset of a champion to a conversation about the hidden cost of letting your emotions drive your strategy at the table and in your firm. Here's what you'll learn: Why emotional regulation, not talent or luck, is the single greatest separator between good players and great ones, and what that means for how you lead your firm How to make confident decisions when you're operating with incomplete information, high pressure, and no time to think What the 3 Cs of high performance (Clarity, Competitive Edge, and Calibration) look like in practice for attorneys navigating a high-stakes career If you want to stop letting your emotions cost you the hand, this episode is your playbook. ---- Show Notes: 02:17 – Tiffany shares how her grandfather taught her poker as a kid and why competing against her brothers lit a competitive fire that never went out. 05:35 – What actually separates good players from great ones, and why emotion regulation is the skill most people underestimate. 08:53 – Why the best players think 20 levels deep while most are still playing the surface, and how that gap shows up in every high-stakes decision. 13:45 – How to make confident decisions with incomplete information, combining what is automatic, what is analytical, and what is instinctual. 18:14 – Why great results do not always reflect great decisions, and how to reverse-engineer your process instead of just chasing outcomes. 23:07 – Tiffany's 3 Cs framework, Clarity, Competitive Edge, and Calibration, and how to apply them to your career and firm. 28:07 – How she stayed mentally locked in at the 2008 World Series of Poker with 27 players left, a fresh breakup, and $9 million on the line. 31:25 – Decision fatigue unpacked: why the problem is not thinking too much but treating every decision like it deserves the same weight. 42:35 – Looking back at the 2008 main event and the one thing she would have done differently, asking for help sooner. 52:49 – What being a game changer means to Tiffany, and why the biggest wins come from stepping boldly into uncertainty rather than waiting to feel ready. ---- Links & Resources: Tiffany Michelle World Series of Poker Thinking in Bets by Annie Duke Chris Moneymaker Daniel Negreanu Phil Hellmuth ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 334. Dr. Benjamin Hardy — From Limiting Beliefs to Limitless Potential: A Guide to Personal Growth 161. Joe De Sena — The Spartan Mindset: Embracing Discomfort and Unleashing Mental Toughness 71. Tim Grover — Winning: The Unforgiving Race to Greatness

    56 min
  7. 442. AMMA — Why Being the Smartest Person in the Room is a Business Failure

    MAR 5

    442. AMMA — Why Being the Smartest Person in the Room is a Business Failure

    The room you're in either challenges you to grow or quietly lets you stay the same. In this episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael and Jessica Mogill answer three listener questions that expose a pattern most law firm owners won't say out loud: the peer groups they're loyal to have stopped challenging them, the leaders they hired aren't being allowed to lead, and the reason their team has gone quiet might be their own doing. This episode is a direct look at how necessary trust and delegation are for scaling your business. Here's what you'll learn: Why outgrowing your peer group is not a problem to fix but a signal to act on, and how to find the people who will actually push you forward How to tell whether a new leadership hire truly isn't the right fit, or whether you're undermining them before they ever get the chance Why the leaders who scale are the ones who get out of the way Stop surrounding yourself with people who tell you what you want to hear. This episode is your reminder that getting better requires truth, not comfort. ---- 09:03 — The first question kicks off a broader conversation about peer groups, truth-seeking, and why surrounding yourself with people who challenge you matters more than staying comfortable in the wrong room. 09:48 — Michael distinguishes love and support, and why the people who tell you what you want to hear are not the same as the people who help you grow. 12:48 — Why Michael's first question to any mentor is always "where am I wrong?" and what that mindset requires you to give up. 14:27 — The conversation turns to hiring and delegation, using a listener's managing partner situation to explore what it really means to bring a leader into your firm and then actually let them lead. 14:41 — Jessica raises the other side of the coin: what if the hire is actually capable and the owner is just getting in the way? 15:21 — Michael and Jessica tackle the "am I the a*****e" question about a senior attorney who has gone quiet, and what it signals when talented people stop contributing. 17:38 — Michael reflects on his own evolution as a leader, from signing off on every decision to stepping back, and why the Summit ran better when he got out of the way. ---- Links & Resources: Entourage on HBO David Goggins John Maxwell ---- Learn what sustainable growth can look like for your firm at crispcoach.com. ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 349. AMMA — The Leadership Shift: Building a Firm That Doesn’t Depend on You 141. David Goggins — Never Finished: Unshackle Your Mind and Win the War Within 62. John Maxwell — Leadership is a Verb, Not a Noun

    22 min
  8. 441. The Psychology Behind Difficult Conversations with Sheila Heen [Encore Edition]

    MAR 3

    441. The Psychology Behind Difficult Conversations with Sheila Heen [Encore Edition]

    The most dangerous conversations aren't the ones we have. They're the ones we keep avoiding. In this encore episode of The Game Changing Attorney Podcast, Michael Mogill sits down with Sheila Heen, Harvard Law professor, co-founder of Triad Consulting, and bestselling co-author of Difficult Conversations and Thanks for the Feedback. With over 30 years at the Harvard Negotiation Project, Sheila has spent her career studying why conversations go sideways and what it actually takes to have them well. In this conversation, Michael and Sheila unpack the hidden structure of every difficult conversation, explore why feedback triggers our deepest identity fears, and reveal how the most effective leaders learn to hear what others can't bring themselves to say. Here's what you'll learn: The three hidden layers in every difficult conversation How to use the "third story" approach to enter hard conversations without putting people on the defensive What separates leaders who invite honest feedback from those who build blind spots over time If you want to lead at the highest level, you have to be willing to have the conversations everyone else is avoiding. ---- Show Notes: 07:45 — Why negotiation isn't a field, and why that's actually the whole point. 11:37 — How the Difficult Conversations book has evolved over the past 25 years. 18:09 — Why every difficult conversation is actually three separate conversations happening at the same time. 20:07 — The movie theater test: one question that reveals exactly how you handle conflict. 23:38 — The reason starting from your own story almost always backfires, and what to do instead. 29:51 — The one type of feedback leaders give constantly that makes everything worse. 34:44 — Why two people can receive the exact same feedback and have completely different reactions 39:13 — The mistake Sheila made with her three-year-old son that she now uses to teach every leader she works with. ---- Links & Resources: Sheila Heen  Difficult Conversations by Douglas Stone, Bruce Patton, and Sheila Heen Thanks for the Feedback by Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen Harvard Negotiation Project  Getting It Done by Roger Fisher and Alan Sharp Carol Dweck ---- Do you love this podcast and want to see more game changing content? Subscribe to our YouTube channel. ---- Past guests on The Game Changing Attorney Podcast include David Goggins, John Morgan, Alex Hormozi, Randi McGinn, Kim Scott, Chris Voss, Kevin O’Leary, Laura Wasser, John Maxwell, Mark Lanier, Robert Greene, and many more. ---- If you enjoyed this episode, you may also like: 395. AMMA — Why Consensus Slows Growth and How to Fix It 373. AMMA — Your Firm’s Biggest Threat: Too Many Good Ideas 156. Chris Voss — FBI Negotiation Tactics for Business and Life

    44 min
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How can you become a game changer? Michael Mogill, Founder and CEO of Crisp, has used his mastery of marketing for lawyers to grow his company to an 8-figure powerhouse. In just a few years, Crisp has helped thousands of attorneys adapt to the new legal landscape, differentiate themselves from the competition, and earn millions in new revenue. In every episode, you’ll hear from law firm entrepreneurs and market leaders — people who flourish in the face of adversity, challenge the status quo, and define what it means to be a game changer. We investigate success stories and business growth and scalability strategies that can help you attract your ideal clients. Plus, discover hidden insights and actionable advice on how company culture and employee engagement, marketing and advertising, and management and hiring fit into the big picture. What do all our guests have in common? These successful attorneys and business owners prove that the key to innovation is a game-changing mindset. If you want to run your law firm like an entrepreneur, achieve a greater ROI, and build a world-class organization that stands the test of time, then you’re in good company. Subscribe to the Game Changing Attorney Podcast and get ready to take your business to the next level. For more information, visit https://www.crisp.co/podcast/

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