Democracy Paradox

Democracy Paradox

Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? ​​My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.

  1. 4D AGO

    Javier Pérez Sandoval Reveals Democracy’s Hidden Vulnerability: The Hollowing of the State

    By dismantling certain capacities today, you're making the democratic choices of tomorrow harder. Javier Pérez Sandoval In this episode, Javier Pérez Sandoval discusses his Journal of Democracy essay, coauthored with Andrés Mejía Acosta, on why populist leaders often “hollow out” the state. Moving beyond familiar debates about executive aggrandizement and democratic backsliding, Pérez Sandoval argues that democracy depends on the state’s capacity to deliver essential public goods – from health and education to security, justice, and credible elections. Drawing on examples from Mexico and Argentina, he explains how both left- and right-wing populists may weaken institutions through austerity, politicization, and institutional restructuring, often prioritizing short-term political gains over long-term democratic resilience. The conversation explores how state erosion can constrain future democratic choices, undermine public trust, and create a vicious cycle that leaves democracy structurally weakened from within. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20Reducing State Capacity - 3:47Core Functions of the State - 12:23Is Reducing State Capacity Antidemocratic? 21:13Does the Public Want to Hollow Out the State? 33:31Links Learn more about Javier Pérez Sandoval. Read the Journal of Democracy essay “Why Populists Hollow Out Their States.” Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    43 min

  2. JAN 21

    Kate Baldwin Explains Why Christianity Fights for Democracy in Africa

    The group of people who have an interest in defending liberal democracy might be broader than many academics, and maybe even liberals, would have shown. Kate Baldwin This episode features Yale political scientist Kate Baldwin in a conversation about her book Faith in Democracy, which challenges the assumption that religion is inherently hostile to democratic governance. Drawing on research from sub-Saharan Africa, Baldwin explains how Christian churches have often emerged as defenders of liberal democracy – not because of ideological commitments, but because democratic institutions protect church autonomy and social service work from state overreach. The conversation explores when and why churches mobilize against democratic backsliding, how institutional incentives shape political behavior, and what this reveals about the broader coalition of actors invested in sustaining democracy. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20Why Churches Defend Democracy - 3:20Role of Education - 14:09Why Churches Choose Autocracy - 20:09Leadership - 27:00Links Learn more about Kate Baldwin. Learn more about her book Faith in Democracy: The Logic of Church Advocacy for Liberal Democratic Institutions in Africa. Check out "Democracy's Devout Defenders" in the Journal of Democracy. Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    38 min

  3. JAN 7

    Natalie Wenzell Letsa Describes the Autocratic Voter

    You can take a cognitive bias so far down the road that you can live in an objectively very clear dictatorship and sit there and say, 'I live in a democracy.' Natalie Wenzell Letsa In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with political scientist Natalie Wenzell Letsa about why some voters genuinely support ruling parties in electoral autocracies. Drawing on her book The Autocratic Voter and fieldwork in Cameroon, Letsa explains how partisan identities form under dictatorship and what these dynamics reveal about democracy, polarization, and political behavior more broadly. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20What is an Electoral Autocracy - 3:20Voters in an Autocracy - 12:55Opposition in an Autocracy - 21:04Parallels to Democracies - 30:31Links Learn more about Natalie Wenzell Letsa. Learn more about her book The Autocratic Voter: Partisanship and Political Socialization Under Dictatorship. Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    50 min

  4. 12/24/2025

    Russell Muirhead Warns Ungoverning Threatens Democracy

    The heart of ungoverning is going after expertise - eradicating expertise - and replacing it with the power of the great ruler. Russ Muirhead Russell Muirhead is the Robert Clements Professor of Democracy and Politics and the co-director of the Political Economy Project at Dartmouth University. He's also the co-author, with Nancy Rosenblum, of Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos.  Patrick McQuestion joins to help introduce the episode. Patrick is a  PhD student in his fourth year at the University of Notre Dame studying political science and peace studies, and also the co-host of the Global Stage Podcast.  The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20What is Ungoverning? 9:00The Fourth Branch - 32:29Other Examples of Ungoverning 36:28Ungoverning and Democracy - 46:59Links: Learn more about Russell Muirhead Learn more about his book Ungoverning: The Attack on the Administrative State and the Politics of Chaos Learn more about Patrick McQuestion Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    51 min

  5. 12/10/2025

    Luis Schiumerini on Incumbency Bias

    Decreasing incumbent capacity and affective polarization are making incumbency salient, but also more of a curse than a blessing. Luis Schiumerini In this episode of The Democracy Paradox, host Justin Kempf speaks with Notre Dame political scientist Luis Schiumerini about his new book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America. Schiumerini challenges common assumptions about incumbents, demonstrating that holding office can create systematic advantages – or disadvantages – depending on the institutional context. Before the conversation begins, Kellogg Doctoral Student Affiliate Tomás Gianibelli joins Kempf to share his experience working with Schiumerini and to explain why this research reshapes how scholars think about democracy.  The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20What is Incumbency Bias - 6:06Incumbency Disadvantage on the Rise - 23:58Term Limits - 31:39Implications for Democracy - 36:52Links: Learn more about Luis Schiumerini Learn more about his book Incumbency Bias: Why Political Office is a Blessing and a Curse in Latin America Learn more about Tomás Gianibelli Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Support the show

    45 min

  6. 11/26/2025

    Adam Przeworski Asks Who Decides What is Democratic

    The biggest disappointment is that democracies do not reduce social and economic inequality. Adam Przeworski In this episode, host Justin Kempf talks with political scientist Adam Przeworski about what truly defines democracy today. Przeworski explains why he sees no global democratic crisis, defends a minimalist view centered on free and fair elections, and reflects on why democracies struggle to reduce inequality. He also discusses why citizens sometimes tolerate democratic erosion and how modern autocracies maintain support, offering a clear and concise perspective on democracy’s strengths and limits. Alejandro González Ruiz, cohost of the Kellogg Institute's Global Stage podcast, joins to help introduce the episode. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20Minimal Democracy and Democratic Crisis - 9:44Economic Inequality and Democracy - 22:37Autocracy and Popular Support - 31:42Democratic Backsliding - 36:09Links Learn more about Adam Przeworski. Learn more about his book Crises of Democracy (Cambridge University Press, 2019). Learn more about Alejandro González Ruiz. Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    51 min

  7. 11/12/2025

    Killian Clarke Warns Counterrevolution is a Threat to Nascent Democracies

    For democratic revolutions to survive counterrevolution, they have to make certain choices that can undermine the quality of their democracy. Killian Clarke Political scientist Killian Clarke joins The Democracy Paradox to discuss his new book, Return of Tyranny: Why Counterrevolutions Emerge and Succeed. He explains why democratic revolutions are especially vulnerable to reversal, how elites and citizens can align in counterrevolutionary movements, and what these dynamics reveal about democracy’s fragility and endurance today. Amanda Waterhouse, a postdoctoral democracy researcher at the Kellogg Institute also joins to help introduce the episode. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20Counterrevolutions as Mass Movements - 9:59Prevalence and Success of Counterrevolution - 19:08Is Counterrevolution Always Bad? - 33:22Why Some Revolutionaries Join the Counterrevolution - 41:12Links Learn more about Amanda Waterhouse. Learn more about Killian Clarke. Learn more about Clarke's book Return of Tyranny: Why Counterrevolutions Emerge and Succeed (Cambridge University Press, 2025) Learn more about the Kellogg Institute. Apes of the State created all Music Support the show

    52 min

  8. 10/29/2025

    Amel Ahmed Says the Regime Question Has Returned

    The regime question at its core is about how we should govern ourselves... This is an enduring question that is essential to democratic politics. Amel Ahmed This episode begins with host Justin Kempf and Javier Pérez Sandoval setting the stage for a deep dive into the “regime question,” highlighting its significance in democratic theory and contemporary politics. Their introductory discussion explores foundational divides in political systems and frames the questions that will be pursued, particularly the tensions between institutional arrangements and party cleavages. The heart of the episode follows as Kempf interviews Amel Ahmed, who draws on her comparative research to examine historical battles over parliamentary power, suffrage, and executive authority in the United Kingdom, United States, and Germany. Ahmed connects these cases to present-day concerns about legislative dysfunction and polarization, demonstrating that ongoing contestation over the rules of democracy is both persistent and essential to democratic governance. The Democracy Paradox is made in partnership with the Kellogg Institute of the Keough School of Global Affairs at the University of Notre Dame.  Read the full transcript here. Amel Ahmed is an assistant professor at the University of Massachusetts Amherst and the author of the book The Regime Question: Foundations of Democratic Governance in Europe and the United States.  Key Highlights Introduction - 0:20What is the Regime Question - 8:42Electoral Authoritarianism - 25:05Resolving the Regime Question - 36:03Implications for Democracy - 44:47Links Learn more about Javier Pérez Sandoval Learn more about Amel Ahmed Learn more about her book, The Regime Question: Foundations of Democratic Governance in Europe and the United States Learn more about the Kellogg Institute Support the show

    49 min
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Is it possible for a democracy to govern undemocratically? Can the people elect an undemocratic leader? Is it possible for democracy to bring about authoritarianism? And if so, what does this say about democracy? ​​My name is Justin Kempf. Every week I talk to the brightest minds on subjects like international relations, political theory, and history to explore democracy from every conceivable angle. Topics like civil resistance, authoritarian successor parties, and the autocratic middle class challenge our ideas about democracy. Join me as we unravel new topics every week.

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