Rock That Doesn't Roll: The Story of Christian Music

Andrew Gill and Leah Payne
  • 4.7 (146)
  • Music History
  • Updated Biweekly

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now. Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee. Or buy yourself a coffee from Larry's Coffee and support the show.

  1. Jul 22

    When DIY Music Met Youth Group Kids (ft. Randall Stephens and Scott Hatch)

    Scott Hatch grew up Methodist, but learned about DIY music at his college radio station. When he started his label, Burnt Toast Vinyl, in 1996 he put out bands that had a similar background to him- fellow youth group kids.  One of those youth group kids was Randall Stephens. He grew up Nazarene, but was inspired by bands like Pavement and Guided By Voices to start the band Jetenderpaul in the early 1990s. After releasing three albums and a handful of singles for Velvet Blue Music and Burnt Toast Vinyl, Stephens went on to become a respected academic who researches the intersection of Christianity and rock music. His book, The Devil's Music, is essential reading on the topic.  This year Burnt Toast Vinyl re-released Jetenderpaul's second album, The Woolen Spires on vinyl for the first time.  -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    When DIY Music Met Youth Group Kids (ft. Randall Stephens and Scott Hatch)

  2. Jul 8

    From Politically Incorrect to Ye Gods (ft. Scott Carter)

    Scott Carter is the host of Ye Gods, a podcast and public radio show that explores codes of religious, cultural and secular conduct with notable guests like Martin Short, Killer Mike and Moon Zappa among many others. Scott is an award-winning executive producer and writer, known for his work on Real Time with Bill Maher and Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher. In this interview he shares how his views on religion have shifted over his life, the role music plays in his spiritual practice and shares Hollywood stories about Martin Scorcese, Gary Shandling. Brian Wilson and more. For the month of July Ye Gods is presenting a series called "For God And Country" in honor of America's 250th Birthday. -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    From Politically Incorrect to Ye Gods (ft. Scott Carter)

  3. Jun 24

    Our God Is An Awesome God To Hang With (ft. Emperor X)

    Chad Matheny is better known by his folk punk band name, Emperor X. His 12th full length album, Unified Field, is out on June 26 and features a single called "Praise Jesus! Hail Reagan!" Much of the album was recorded in Ukraine during the war with Russia. Chad has lived in Berlin, Germany since 2012. Chad also happens to be a friend of Andrew Gill's since they attended public middle school and high school together in Jacksonville, Florida. This episode includes discussion of Chad's megachurch upbringing, his thoughts on the "trad cath" trend, why more leftists need to call themselves Christians and what Andrew was like in high school. Emperor X's playlist of CCM bangers -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    Our God Is An Awesome God To Hang With (ft. Emperor X)

  4. Jun 10

    The Supertones' Progressive Neighbor (ft. Jewly Hight)

    Jewly Hight is a noted music journalist best known for her work with NPR Music, Nashville Public Radio, The Bitter Southerner and more. She's also a friend of Leah's from their days together in grad school at Vanderbilt Divinity School. In this conversation we talk about how Jewly got into music, her most regrettable tattoo, her feud with the Supertones' singer, clogging, Jelly Roll and so much more.  -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    The Supertones' Progressive Neighbor (ft. Jewly Hight)

  5. May 27

    Making the Invisible Visible (ft. Flamy Grant)

    Flamy Grant may be the world's only Christian drag queen songwriter. She's one of the few queer artists to ever top the Christian music category in the iTunes Store. She's also a guest we've wanted to have on the show since before season one launched. We get an update on whether Flamy and Amy Grant have met yet, manifest a few dreams and get to the heart of what keeps Flamy performing in churches. Also, we consider the possibility of approaching drag as a folk art form.  Flamy also answers questions posed by members of our Patreon community. -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    Making the Invisible Visible (ft. Flamy Grant)

  6. May 13

    The World's Most Outrageous Jesus Freak (ft. Nina Hagen)

    Nina Hagen is a true legend. She's considered an icon of German culture. And she's known as "the Godmother of German Punk." But our interview with her revealed that she also should be considered a longtime Jesus Freak. Her latest album, "Highway To Heaven" was released earlier in 2026. -- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) If you'd like to make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show. The first time you spend $15, we get $30.

    The World's Most Outrageous Jesus Freak (ft. Nina Hagen)

  7. Apr 29

    The Reverse CCM Crossovers of 1985 (ft. Tim Dillinger)

    Tim Dillinger returns to the podcast to continue our examination of 1985 as a pivotal year in Christian music. This time his focus is on artists who tried to break into the Christian industry, including Donna Summer and Maria Muldaur. He also discusses Lone Justice, Mr Mister, Steve Arrington and Tremaine Hawkins. He also reflects on how the industry in 2026 compares to what was happening in 1985.  For more on all of these artists, subscribe to Tim's Substack: God's Music Is My Life.  --- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here. Do you like coffee? Try Larry's Coffee and support the show.

    The Reverse CCM Crossovers of 1985 (ft. Tim Dillinger)

  8. Apr 15

    When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)

    Rosie Thomas is a singer-songwriter who came up alongside artists like Damien Jurado, Pedro The Lion and Sufjan Stevens. She was one of the first folk artists signed to Sub Pop Records and had a long-running comedic alter ego named Sheila Saputo. Her most recent music project is Lullabies For Parents. In this interview she talks about her experience as a child performing in musicals, joining Velour100, working at a daycare with Damien Jurado, signing to Sub Pop, performing at Lilith Fair in 2010, breaking through Sufjan Stevens' defenses and acting alongside Steve Zahn.  --- Do you have a Christian rock story to tell? Want to respond to this episode? Leave us a message at ‪(629) 204-4264‬. If Rock That Doesn’t Roll is important to you, support us on Patreon. https://www.patreon.com/rtdr (join via the website, not the iOS app for a 30% discount) Or make a one-time donation: https://coff.ee/rtdr If you can't afford a donation, please tell five friends about the show. You can connect with us on Instagram or by emailing RTDRpod@gmail.com Sign up for our Substack to keep up with show developments. Buy RTDR merch here.

    When The Songs Aren't Enough (ft. Rosie Thomas)
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About

Rock That Doesn’t Roll looks at how Christian music shaped the world we're living in now by telling individual stories from the peak era of the contemporary Christian music industry. In the 80s, 90s and early 2000s CCM grew into a billion dollar business that affected millions of evangelical young people. Through interviews with artists, industry players and average fans Dr. Leah Payne and Andrew Gill trace the long-lasting personal, cultural and political impact of sometimes cringe-worthy music. Expect hilarious moments and heartfelt yearning, purity culture and conservative politics- all in equal measure. Whether you’ve deconstructed, come out or renegotiated your faith, we hope you feel seen. If you’ve never given Christian music any thought beyond a punchline, we hope you’ll gain a deeper understanding of a subculture that’s shaping the world around us now. Join our Patreon or Buy Us A Coffee. Or buy yourself a coffee from Larry's Coffee and support the show.

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