Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Continuous Improvement and Transformational Change

Katie Anderson
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Chain of Learning® is the trusted leadership podcast for transformational change leaders, Lean and operational excellence practitioners, and internal change agents who believe that people—not tools—are the foundation of sustainable results. If you’re committed to continuous improvement and continuous learning, and want to build a culture where teams are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems, innovate, and lead at every level—this podcast is for you. Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders at all levels move from transactional “doing” to a vibrant, engaged culture of learning—where people and process lead to organizational success. Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you: * Build high-performing learning cultures * Strengthen continuous improvement, influence, and Lean leadership capabilities * Lead transformational change with intention * Develop people through problem-solving, coaching, and leadership development * Improve performance while investing in human potential Grounded in human-centered leadership and the principles of the Toyota Way, the podcast features conversations with influential thinkers and practitioners shaping the future of organizational learning, operational excellence, and change leadership. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp. Through thoughtful conversations, real-world stories, and practical reflection, you’ll learn how leadership behaviors, learning mindsets, and systems thinking come together to create sustainable impact. Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact—and share this podcast with your friends, fellow change leaders, and colleagues so that we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together. Podcast website: ChainOfLearning.com Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Read Katie's award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst

  1. 4D AGO

    70| Talk to the People: How to Make Better Decisions with Nigel Thurlow

    Chain of Learning: Leadership Strategies for Continuous Improvement and Transformational Change

    51 min

  2. MAR 18

    69| Better Judgment, Not Better AI Tools: What Leaders Need to Learn and Unlearn [with Barry O'Reilly]

    You're being told to use AI. But which tool you actually need to do your best work? Leaders and change practitioners everywhere feel the same pressures right now — more meetings, more information, more mandates to adopt AI — with less time to think and less clarity about where to start. And most of the advice begins in the wrong place: with the tool. In this episode of Chain of Learning, I talk with Barry O'Reilly, bestselling author of Unlearn and Lean Enterprise, and author of the new book Artificial Organizations, about why the real opportunity with AI isn't automation. It's better judgment. Barry shares examples from his work with Fortune 500 executives who are successfully pairing human instinct with machine insight — not by adopting every new tool, but by understanding how they work, where judgment matters most, and what needs to be unlearned along the way.  It's about letting go of the belief that your expertise is your competitive advantage, and starting to see AI not as a replacement, but as a thinking partner that can sharpen your clarity, your presence, and your preparation. In this episode, you'll learn: Why starting with the tool is the wrong place to start — and what to do insteadHow to identify your natural traits and highest-leverage tasks as the foundation for working with AIThe unlearning required to shift from relying on instinct alone to combining human judgment with machine insightHow successful leaders are using AI to pressure-test ideas and show up more prepared and presentWhy the skills that make you more effective with AI are the same skills that make you more influential with peopleWhere does judgment matter most in your role right now — and what might you need to unlearn to create space for a better way of working? ABOUT MY GUEST: Barry O'Reilly is the bestselling author of Unlearn and co-author of Lean Enterprise. He hosts the Unlearn Podcast and is co-founder of Nobody Studios, an AI-driven venture studio. His newest book, Artificial Organizations, is a practical guide for leaders ready to combine human and machine intelligence to make better decisions faster. Barry O’Reilly is also giving away a copy of Artificial Organizations to THREE lucky winners!Artificial Organizations explores how leaders can combine human judgment with AI to make better decisions in an increasingly complex world. Instead of focusing on AI tools, the book shows how organizations must redesign how leaders think, work, and make decisions so technology enhances clarity rather than amplifies confusion. It presents a practical leadership system for using AI as a thinking partner to improve judgment, reduce decision overload, and lead more effectively.Register now to enter the giveaway!IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/69 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comConnect with Barry O’Reilly: linkedin.com/in/barryoreilly Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonCheck out Barry O’Reilly’s book, Artificial Organizations: artificialorganizations.com Subscribe to my newsletter: kbjanderson.com/newsletter Learn more about my coaching, trusted advisor partnerships, and leadership learning experiences: organizations@kbjanderson.com  RELATED LINKS: Unlearn Podcast | Intentional Leadership with Katie AndersonEpisode 59 | Get Better at Getting Better: Leveraging AI to Elevate Human Learning with Nathen HarveyTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 02:28 Where to start on adopting AI05:04 Importance of understanding natural traits and strengths before looking into AI tools07:12 Defining the problem first before looking for the tool to close the gap08:17 Why some may see AI as a deflection tool09:02 How to use AI for synthesizing data rather than rudimentary tasks12:28 Why judgment is the leadership advantage and leveraging AI to make better judgment12:38 Using decision velocity to improve decision making13:35 Decision advantage in synthesizing data to make a decision14:35 The difference between AI and human strengths in decision making16:26 Unlearning how you work to make progress19:32 Why human thinking plus machine equals a better outcome20:28 Examples of how to use AI to be the best business and thinking partner24:46 Importance of asking the right questions when brainstorming with AI26:06 The limitations of AI and knowing how to use it to your advantage30:18 How technology can help us be make a bigger impact33:12 The loss of psychological safety when implementing AI and unlearning this fear35:35 Better results when teams collaborate with AI vs. doing it independently36:06 Shifting from control based learning mindset to influence based learning mindset for continuous improvement37:54 Implementing AI to be the most effective in your organization40:34 How to start building an AI stack knowing your natural traits, one or two tasks, and then experimenting with an AI tool42:54 The skills that make us more effective with machines to increase influence43:16 Questions for reflection on how to implement AI in your organization Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    46 min

  3. MAR 11

    68| The Power of Learning Together: How Shared Experience Enables People-Centered Leadership

    Registration is now OPEN for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/ What changes when leaders stop learning alone—and start learning together? Leadership development often focuses on individual insight: reading, listening, reflecting. But some of the most meaningful shifts in leadership don’t happen that way. They happen when leadership teams go see, ask questions, and reflect together. That shared experience becomes a catalyst—aligning leaders around a new way of seeing their organization, supporting one another in practicing new behaviors, and driving lasting transformation. In this episode of Chain of Learning, you’ll learn why immersive experiences can transform how leadership teams align, learn, and develop—and why learning in context often leads to change that lasts. Drawing on examples from my Japan Leadership Experience, we look at what happens when leadership teams step away from the day-to-day pressures of their roles and create space to learn and reflect in new ways. Shared experiences give leadership teams something powerful: a common reference point for how they want to lead and improve—accelerating organizational transformation. In this episode, we explore how to: Shift from learning as an individual activity to learning as a leadership team practiceCreate alignment by seeing and reflecting on the same thingsMove from “What did I learn?” to “What are we seeing differently?”Turn shared insights into new leadership behaviors back at workUnderstand why immersion and context matter when developing people-centered leadershipIMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/67 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip RELATED EPISODES: Episode 25 | Getting Results Through the Power of Serious Leadership with Kecia Kelly and Amy ChaumetonEpisode 20 | How to Coach Executives and Influence Change with Brad ToussaintEpisode 48 | Make Leadership Meaningful: From Tools to Purposeful Impact with Josef ProcházkaEpisode 67 | Why Lifelong Learning Is the Foundation of Influence (and Can Limit Your Impact)Episode 4 | Leading for Impact: The Power of Being Over DoingEpisode 17 | Leading Change from the Middle with Pennie Saum TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 1:30 The gap between inspiration and the system you return to 2:46  Three conditions that most leadership development is missing. 4:13 The fundamental difference when others are learning beside you vs. learning alone4:47 How Jim, Healthcare COO,  accelerated transformation by inviting his team on the Japan Leadership Experience6:49 Transformations that past Japan Leadership Experience have experienced in accelerated learning and sustaining excellence in their organization10:34 Unlocking shoshin - the beginner’s mind - through immersive experiences12:04 The benefits of observing Japan employees and companies in person14:22 The depth of connection that forms when you learn together16:43 Why shared learning is important for leaders to make changes that sticks18:55 The cultural impact of the Japan Leadership Experience21:31 The deepest leadership changes that come from shared learning and shared leadership Registration is now OPEN for the November 2026 cohort of my Japan Leadership Experience: https://kbjanderson.com/japantrip/

    24 min

  4. MAR 4

    67| Why Learning Is the Foundation of Influence (and How it Can Limit Your Impact)

    What if your approach to learning is actually limiting your influence as a change leader? Many of us pride ourselves on being lifelong learners. We read, earn certifications, study new tools, and go deep into our methodology. That depth is a strength. But as your responsibility grows—from running projects to shaping transformation—what’s required of you changes. At some point, going deeper into your method or functional expertise is no longer enough. Your role shifts from applying tools to enabling leaders to see the whole system, define the real problem before choosing an approach. In this episode of Chain of Learning, I help you learn how to move from learning as accumulation to learning as adaptable influence. As your scope expands, you’re no longer just responsible for executing well. You’re responsible for how others think, decide, and take ownership. That requires more than expertise. It requires the ability to step back, question the form, and respond to what the situation truly calls for. We often define learning as going deeper into an area of expertise, but what can be missing is a shift toward adaptability and broader perspective. A learning and growth mindset is the foundation for enabling a learning organization—yet if you get attached to one form or method, it can constrain your influence. In this episode, you’ll explore how to: Describe the impact you create tools or jargonMove from Shuhari—rigidly following a method to adapting based on contextPractice beginner’s mind—Shoshin, even when you’re the expertIdentify when you’ve fallen into the Doer Trap—and choose to develop others insteadNotice when you’re following the form in situations that call for flexibilityIf you want to build a learning organization, your own learning approach must evolve first. It’s not just what you know, but how you show up.IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/67 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comFollow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip RELATED EPISODES: Episode 65 | From Learning to Impact: Turn Insight into Leadership ActionEpisode 9 | The 8 Essential Skills to Become a Transformational Change Katalyst™Episode 15 | 5 Steps to Revitalize Lifelong LearningEpisode 27 | 3 Practices to Become a Skillful FacilitatorEpisode 42 | Do the Right Thing: Japanese Management Masterclass Part 1 with Tim WolputEpisode 52 | What You Love About Lean and Operational Excellence — And Your #1 Frustration: How to Get Executive Buy-in TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 00:40 The Katalyst model revision and why lifelong learning was removed as a standalone competency 03:24 Why learning isn't what distinguishes your influence. It's what makes influence possible05:07 What it means to be a lifelong learning enthusiast 06:52 Three questions every change leader should be able to answer without jargon 09:22 What 75 leaders revealed in a survey and the lesson underneath it10:31 The concept of Shu Ha Ri that shapes how you develop and learn:11:13 [SHU] following the form 11:25 [HA] where you begin to adapt 11:35 [RI] Transcending the form entirely 12:20 Five Toyota Kata Coaching questions developed by Mike Roth that requires learning and unlearning to develop, grow, and improve15:05 The concept of Shoshin and clearing what's in the way 16:04 Katie's personal confession about her own telling habit and what modeling the way actually looks like in practice17:35 The "doer trap" and why getting leadership buy-in starts with us20:39 What lifelong learning really means and why it’s a being practice 21:01 Three practices to try this week to create more impact Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    23 min

  5. FEB 18

    66| Leadership Is Practice: What It Takes to Lead Transformation as Responsibility Grows [with Carlos Scholz]

    What does it really take to lead transformation as responsibility grows? At some point, leadership stops being about doing the improvement work or having the right answers. For operational leaders and change practitioners alike, the work moves to holding the system—people, priorities, and consequences—and helping others learn how to do the same. In this episode of Chain of Learning, I’m joined by Carlos Scholz, CEO of Catalysis, to explore the critical shift leaders must make to enable systemic, lasting organizational change. Carlos shares his journey from technically trained engineer in manufacturing, to transformational change leader in healthcare leading a team of continuous improvement practitioners, to operations leader, and now CEO. Across these roles, he’s learned that transformation doesn’t fail because leaders don’t care or aren’t trying, but because we often rush to outcomes and skip the systems-level and behavioral maturity required to sustain them. This conversation highlights a critical truth: leadership is practice. It’s not a role or a title, it’s how you intentionally show up and get better, day after day. Together, we explore what really changes as leadership responsibility and organizational complexity increase, how leaders have to change their own behavior, and how influence shifts when the work is no longer about doing improvement, but about developing leaders who can own the system. In this episode, we explore: Why leadership becomes less about expertise and more about intentional practice as scope and responsibility expandWhat changes when you move from leading through influence to owning the system through positional authority and the consequences that come with itHow identity and perceived value shape resistance to change, including your ownWhy skipping organizational and behavioral maturity undermines reliability, even with strong intentionsHow repositioning improvement teams from doers to coaches helps leaders change their behavior and allows transformation to scaleIf you’re navigating your own growth as a change leader—or supporting leaders in truly owning their system—this conversation offers language and perspective to help you lead with greater impact. ABOUT MY GUEST: Carlos Scholz is the CEO of Catalysis, a mission-driven organization advancing people-centered, value-based healthcare. A former manufacturing engineer and healthcare operations and change leader at Kaiser Permanente and NYC Health + Hospitals, he brings deep experience driving system-wide Lean and continuous improvement transformation and developing leaders at scale. Carlos was named a Shingo Rising Star and serves on the Shingo Institute Board. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/66 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comConnect with Carlos Scholz: linkedin.com/in/carlosscholz Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip RELATED EPISODES: Episode 9 | Move from Technical Expert to Influential LeaderEpisode 16 | Leverage Analytical Systems Thinking and Psychological Safety to Drive Organizational Improvement [with Mark Graban] TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 03:02 Leadership shifts Carlos made stepping into senior executive responsibility06:19 The start of Carlos’ journey and how it evolvedrelationships as it does on technical expertise12:19 Learning that sustainable change depends as much on influence and being vulnerable and sharing openly 17:42 Multiple approaches in creating conditions for leaders to feel safe enough to be vulnerable18:44 Importance of organizational assessment to identify behavioral gaps24:05 Understanding that sustainable change requires aligning the entire system, not just improving isolated parts26:32 When leaders are not on board with change efforts28:48 Importance of both the technical and social side of being a change leader31:30 The process of building a system of coaching36:23 Transitioning from leading through influence to stepping into direct operational leadership 43:28 How skills developed as an influence leader strengthened operational leadership45:57 A surprising lesson from stepping into an operational leadership role50:16 How Carlos is leading transformation as a CEO of Catalysis55:08 Steps to make real transformation happen1:00:13 Reminders for leading transformational change1:01:43 Questions for reflection to strengthen the system around you Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    1h 4m

  6. FEB 4

    65| From Learning to Impact: Turn Insight into Leadership Action

    What if the reason your learning feels productive—but your impact feels stuck—has nothing to do with effort? Many change leaders and improvement practitioners are excellent learners. You’re likely a Learning Enthusiast—like me. You read the books, attend the workshops, listen to podcasts, and gather ideas with genuine enthusiasm. And yet, despite all that effort, learning doesn’t always turn into impact. In fact, it can sometimes lead to overwhelm or paralysis—more ideas, more options, and less clarity about what to actually do. I’ve lived this pattern myself, and I see it again and again in my work with leaders around the world. When learning becomes something we collect rather than something we practice—and bring to fruition through our habits—it stalls our impact. The challenge isn’t gaining more knowledge.It’s learning how to turn insight into behavior—and connect behavior to results. In this episode, I explore a critical shift: moving from the Chain of Learning® to a Chain of Impact. Instead of treating continuous learning as something to acquire, I invite you to see learning as something to harvest—by making the value chain of impact explicit: turning insight into specific behaviors, practicing them deliberately through doing and reflection, and connecting that practice to the impact it creates for people and results. If you care deeply about learning, growth, and people—and want to build the capability to translate learning into action and impact—this episode will help you do exactly that. YOU’LL LEARN How to recognize when learning feels productive but isn’t changing how you actually show up as a leaderHow to make the connection between learning, behavior, and impact visible—and actionableWhy behaviors—not intentions, traits, or inspiration—are the real bridge between learning and resultsHow treating leadership actions as experiments helps you learn by doing and reflection, not just aiming for a targetWhy harvesting learning means finishing what’s ready—not endlessly adding more ideas or initiatives IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/65 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantripTIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 00:59 Why doing more is not mean progress02:13 The invisible trap of when we are focused on learning vs. putting it into practice02:27 Harvest - what it means and why it’s a fitting word for 2026 05:04 The difference between learning and behavior in creating impact05:25 How to apply Intention = Heart + Direction® to close the execution gap07:40 Four key practices to take action on learning to impact your work and life  07:48 [ONE] Make the learning itself concrete and specific 09:00 [TWO] Focus on specific observable behaviors, not traits that we want to develop10:48 [THREE] Identify the gap you want to close and identify what you expect to happen and the impact when you put the learning into practice11:42 [FOUR] Reflect and adjust for accelerated improvement12:49 Where intention stems from and why intention plus direction is important to see results13:54 How leaders turn into impact through the Immersive Japan Leadership Experience14:52 Three open ended questions for leaders to reflect on to create a clear action plan17:07 Josef’s experience in shifting from being seen as an expert to a trusted partner 18:06 Questions to ask to help break the telling habit21:12 How the meaning of “harvest” is focused on collaboration and creating the space for others to grow 22:40 Reflection questions to reflect on to make an impact through your behavior P.S. This episode happens to be released on my birthday 🎉 If Chain of Learning has made a difference for you, a quick rating and review would mean a lot—and helps others discover the show. Leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or rating and comments on an episode on Spotify or YouTube. Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    25 min

  7. JAN 21

    64| Stop Doing Transformation—and Start Enabling It: Redefine Your Role as a Change Leader [with Jill Forrester]

    What if the reason leading your organization’s transformation feels heavy isn’t the work itself—but the role you’ve been playing as a change leader? If you’re a change leader, continuous improvement professional, or internal consultant, this tension may feel familiar. You’re helping. You’re busy. You’re delivering results. And before you realize it, you’re wearing every hat—facilitator, teacher, problem-solver, checker—all at once. That was my experience too as an internal change leader. And it’s a pattern I see again and again in my work with internal change leaders and continuous improvement practitioners: when we’re not clear on our role, we become the doers of transformation—when our real work is to enable others to lead it. In this episode of Chain of Learning, I’m joined by Jill Forrester, Director of Continuous Improvement at 3sHealth, to explore the leadership shift that changed how she and her team show up—and the impact they’re having—by moving from helping to intentionally creating the conditions for learning and ownership. If you’ve ever felt the weight of carrying organizational transformation on your shoulders, this conversation will help you see why—and how redefining your role and how you help can change everything. You’ll Learn Why internal change leaders often become the default doers—and why that role isn’t sustainable How lack of role clarity creates confusion, overburden, and dependency for leaders and their internal clients What it really means to create the experience for learning, not just drive improvement outcomes Why clarifying and labeling your role and intention changes how others engage How shifting from doing to enabling builds capability, ownership, and sustainable transformation ABOUT MY GUEST: Jill Forrester has been a leader in health system transformation since 2012. She has collaboratively guided the development of a comprehensive management system at 3sHealth, encompassing patient and customer engagement, problem-solving and process redesign, strategic visioning and deployment, performance measurement, leadership coaching and development, and employee engagement. Jill is an active member of a strong provincial network of continuous quality improvement leaders dedicated to strengthening Saskatchewan’s health system through learning-centered, people-focused practices. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/64 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comConnect with Jill Forrester: linkedin.com/in/jill-forrester Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantripDiscover how to get out of the Doer Trap: kbjanderson.com/doertrap  TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 03:27 Jill’s new role director of continuous improvement and when she realized she needed to make a shift05:00 The question, “Are we actually helping”?  that changed how Jill viewed her role07:01 Why starting a training with questions makes a bigger impact10:12 Why opening up space for others to learn and contribute can improve engagement13:56 Two shifts Jill and her team made to clarify their roles for better continuous improvement outcomes and build confidence16:07 Labeling your role (even when it feels awkward) to better guide others to transformation22:47 What lead Jill to invest in the Japan Leadership Experience to take her leadership to the next level25:14 Seeing quality as trust and quality as love to reshape how you think about improvement25:44 What good 5S is as something you feel instead of a checklist 27:16 An example of 5S in the Japanese culture29:20 The importance of long term thinking to sustain your company for decades30:42 How giving with two hands can be applied to your organization to show respect and support others33:08 The impact of creating space for others to ask questions and learn more quickly35:05 Doing less doing and creating the conditions to increase results and coach more effectively37:15 Reflections to shift from doers to catalysts of change  38:29 Top recommendation for change leaders and continuous improvement practitioners who want to show up in that different space from doing to enabling40:35 Your role as a change leader and creating an experience for others to learn and to lead change themselves42:38 The impact of an intention pause before your next meeting or discussion to help you shift from doing to enabling Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    46 min

  8. JAN 7

    63| Close the Execution Gap: How Leaders Turn Sustainability Intent into Action [with Rose Heathcote]

    Many major transformations, including lean and sustainability—don’t stall because leaders don’t care. They stall because of an execution gap: the gap between what organizations say matters and what actually shows up in daily work, decisions, and priorities. When you hear the word sustainability, what comes to mind first? If it’s recycling, you’re not alone.  But sustainability is far bigger—and more complex—than end-point solutions that address the symptoms of deeper problems. As this episode reveals, sustainability efforts—are stuck in the execution gap between intent and action. In this episode of Chain of Learning, I’m joined by Rose Heathcote, sustainability expert, lean adviser, and author, to explore sustainability as a leadership and transformation challenge, not just an environmental one. Together, we discuss why sustainability often lives in strategy decks and slogans, but struggles to take root in everyday work, and how leaders can shift their focus upstream to close that gap: to how work is designed, how problems are framed, and how people learn to see new kinds of waste and impact. This conversation goes beyond sustainability to address a pattern that shows up in any transformation—lean, AI-enabled change, or building a people-first learning organization.  If you’re working to close the gap between intention and execution, this episode offers perspective and practical starting points for leading meaningful change that lasts. You’ll Learn: What sustainability really means—and why it’s often treated as an aspiration instead of embedded in daily workWhat the sustainability execution gap is, and why it mirrors lean and culture-change failuresWhy shifting problem-solving upstream—from symptoms to root causes—is critical for creating lasting impactHow lean thinking and problem-solving skills enable sustainability and organizational transformation when paired with influence and change leadership skillsWhy speaking the language of business matters for gaining leadership buy-in—and how AI can be used as a thinking partner to support systems thinking and better decisions ABOUT MY GUEST: Rose Heathcote is a speaker, adviser, and Chartered Environmentalist who works at the intersection of Lean thinking and sustainability. She is the founder of Thinking People and the author of "Green Is the New Gold." With decades of experience supporting organizations across industries and regions, Rose focuses on helping leaders move sustainability from aspiration to everyday practice through systems thinking, problem-solving, and people-centered change. IMPORTANT LINKS: Full episode show notes with links to other podcast episodes and resources: ChainOfLearning.com/63 Check out my website for resources and ways to work with me KBJAnderson.comConnect with Rose Heathcote: linkedin.com/in/rose-heathcote Follow me on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kbjandersonDownload my free KATALYST™ Change Leader Self-Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/katalyst Learn more about Rose’s book, “Green is the New Gold”: https://payhip.com/b/UtreTLearn more about my Japan Leadership Experience: kbjanderson.com/japantrip TIMESTAMPS FOR THIS EPISODE: 01:04 Why the real challenge with sustainability starts with where the conversation begins02:39 A broader definition of sustainability meeting the needs of people, planet, and future generations 04:16 Why people mistake sustainability for “recycling”05:54 The execution gap lean leaders keep running into07:43 A real-world example: when “people first” and sustainability don’t show up in the metrics09:58 Important shifts leaders must make to close the execution gap 11:26 Seeing waste, energy loss, and impact through a green lens 14:06 Using AI as a thinking partner, not a replacement 15:16 The skills leaders must develop in an AI-driven world16:41 How multidisciplinary thinking led to a smarter, more sustainable solution 19:19 Why sustainability requires systems thinking across the value chain 20:23 How to make progress towards big challenges23:05 The meaning of the Japanese concept, “sanpo yori” and “yanpo yori” for goodness in four ways and happiness for the long term view 24:33 How the book “Green is the New Gold,” came to be27:10 Three ways to build better products and be more efficient while reducing impacts on the planet 29:19 What we are doing well as a global community to make improvements towards sustainability31:31 How to broaden your lens and use what you already know to do more good32:35 Practical first steps lean leaders can take to apply a sustainability lens at work34:29 Why productivity alone doesn’t reduce damage to the environment36:45 A simple reflection on looking upstream to improve sustainability Submit your questions to John Shook here:https://kbjanderson.com/ask/

    41 min
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Chain of Learning® is the trusted leadership podcast for transformational change leaders, Lean and operational excellence practitioners, and internal change agents who believe that people—not tools—are the foundation of sustainable results. If you’re committed to continuous improvement and continuous learning, and want to build a culture where teams are capable, confident, and empowered to solve problems, innovate, and lead at every level—this podcast is for you. Hosted by Katie Anderson, award-winning author of "Learning to Lead, Leading to Learn" and globally recognized expert in people-centered leadership, Chain of Learning explores how leaders at all levels move from transactional “doing” to a vibrant, engaged culture of learning—where people and process lead to organizational success. Each biweekly episode offers practical insights, reflective questions, and real-world examples to help you: * Build high-performing learning cultures * Strengthen continuous improvement, influence, and Lean leadership capabilities * Lead transformational change with intention * Develop people through problem-solving, coaching, and leadership development * Improve performance while investing in human potential Grounded in human-centered leadership and the principles of the Toyota Way, the podcast features conversations with influential thinkers and practitioners shaping the future of organizational learning, operational excellence, and change leadership. Past guests include Carol Dweck, Michael Bungay Stanier, Jim Womack, Gene Kim, and Larry Culp. Through thoughtful conversations, real-world stories, and practical reflection, you’ll learn how leadership behaviors, learning mindsets, and systems thinking come together to create sustainable impact. Subscribe and follow Chain of Learning® to deepen your impact—and share this podcast with your friends, fellow change leaders, and colleagues so that we can strengthen our Chain of Learning together. Podcast website: ChainOfLearning.com Katie Anderson’s website: KBJAnderson.com Connect with Katie: linkedin.com/in/kbjanderson Read Katie's award-winning book: LearningToLeadLeadingToLearn.com Download the KATALYST™ Change Leader Assessment: KBJAnderson.com/Katalyst

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