Crazy Together

Marcus & Esme O’Kayvius
  • 5.0 (10)
  • MENTAL HEALTH
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

If you’re sick and tired of listening to the negative talk track playing in your head, then why not listen to us instead? We are Marcus and Esme O’Kayvius (not our real names), a married, neurodivergent couple with a lot of experience managing our own mental health issues while raising a daughter and navigating the dystopic hellscape that is corporate America. Join us each week as we discuss trending mental health issues and explore how they impact our health and wellness. We’ll also examine the myths and misconceptions associated with mental health and what we can do about them. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com

  1. 3D AGO

    109. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Never gonna resolve musical differences

    Most great works of art defy simple interpretation. Some pieces are so complex and so deeply rousing that two people (who are otherwise very much alike in temperament and tastes) can walk away from the same composition with very different interpretations. Such is the case with the timeless blue-eyed soul standard Never Gonna Give You Up by Rick Astley. Marcus and Esme discuss their specific point of contention and ask for the listeners' help to resolve the dispute. Also, a family of birds has taken up residence in a planter on the O’Kayvious’ front porch, which has had some surprising impacts on each of the human members of the household. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887  Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    28 min

  2. 5D AGO

    108. Object Permanence and the Neurodivergent “Identity”

    Do neurodivergent people really struggle with object permanence? Generally speaking, no. Babies and dogs may struggle to understand that something still exists even if they can’t see it anymore (which explains the rush babies get playing peek-a-boo). However, most older children and adults – regardless of neurotype – tend to understand that mommy has not exited this earthly plain just because she threw a blanket over her head.  That being said, Marcus and Esme think there is one very specific area of neurodivergent peoples’ lives where they might struggle with something similar to object permanence. Specifically, if neurodivergent people: Acknowledge they live in a world that was built for neurotypical people . . . And respond to these structural inequities by focusing on improving their “flaws” and “defects” ONLY . . . Then they are denying the existence of all the ways in which systems are structured against them. This is a natural reaction for neurodivergent people. After all, they’re raised to believe that being neurodivergent is a condition, and as such they must be “fixed” to be successful in school and at the office. But what if neurodivergence isn’t a condition? What if being neurodivergent just meant a person was different?  In other words, what if neurodivergence was an identity? That’s the question Marcus and Esme explore in this episode: what would it mean if we thought of neurodivergence as an identity, and how might that change the way we think not only of our developmental needs, but of the systems and structures that weren’t built with us in mind?   Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: Issitt, Micah. “Object Permanence.” EBSCO Research Starters: Psychology, EBSCO Information Services, 2022, https://www.ebsco.com/research-starters/psychology/object-permanence.  Guy-Evans, Olivia. “Object Permanence & ADHD: ‘Out of Sight, Out of Mind’.” Simply Psychology, 20 May 2025, https://www.simplypsychology.org/object-permanence-and-adhd.html.  Robison, John Elder. “Neurodiversity Is an Identity, Not a Disorder.” Psychology Today, 14 Jan. 2024, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/my-life-with-aspergers/202401/neurodiversity-is-an-identity-not-a-disorder.  Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    1h 8m

  3. MAY 15

    107. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: A flower with mature themes and a national treasure

    All Esme wanted to do was pay homage to one of her favorite flowers. Unfortunately, Marcus had to go and ruin it with some inappropriate giggling just because the name of the flower sounds a little bit like a certain defining aspect of the male anatomy. It was childish and disrespectful and Marcus apologized profusely for it . . . every time Esme mentioned the flower’s name. Marcus then took a moment to celebrate the 84th birthday of legendary singer/songwriter Taj Mahal. Esme demonstrated far more patience and maturity than Marcus was capable of during her segment, even when he said words like “pianist” and “Ry Cooder.”  Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887  Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    31 min

  4. MAY 14

    106. Why Identity Matters

    Have you ever felt like you’ve changed so much you barely recognize yourself? If so, you might be experiencing an identity crisis. Identity crises are pretty common, but they might be an indicator that you could benefit from some professional medical assistance. In this episode, Marcus and Esme discuss the concept of identity and why having a strong, continuous sense of identity is important to our mental health and well-being. They share their own experiences navigating identity crises and the types of interventions they found most helpful (hint: it rhymes with “sherapy”). They also identify additional activities people can try if they feel like they are losing (or have lost) their sense of identity. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: “Identity.” Psychology Today, Sussex Publishers, https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/basics/identity.  Korfmacher, Carsten. “Personal Identity.” Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy, https://iep.utm.edu/person-i/  Olson, Eric T. “Personal Identity.” Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, edited by Edward N. Zalta, 20 Aug. 2002, substantive revision 30 June 2023, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal.  Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    1h 17m

  5. MAY 8

    CT 105 - HYPERFOCUS BONUS: I might have mentioned them in therapy, but . . .

    In honor of Mother’s Day and his dad’s birthday, Marcus shares some fond remembrances of his parents. It’s an important reminder that we all end up talking about the people we love in therapy. It’s only natural, because they’re usually the ones who have made the biggest impacts on our lives. Life is complicated that way. But, if we’re lucky, we also have a lot of uncomplicated memories of those people that make us smile and remind us how fortunate we are to have had them in our lives. Marcus also takes a moment to reassure his audience that he and his daughter will be doing their part to make sure Esme has a very special Mother’s Day. She’s really freaking good at being a mom, so they’re happy to do it. He also pushes back on those fathers who opt out of the big day by saying, “She’s not my mother.” Maybe so, but if you’re in a relationship with your kids’ mother, or if your kids are too young to handle things themselves, you might consider doing something nice for her anyway. Chances are, she deserves it. So, get off the couch, Gerald! Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887  Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    26 min

  6. MAY 6

    104. Bottom-Up Thinking, Part 2: Saving top-down thinkers from themselves

    In this episode, Marcus and Esme ask a very important question: can’t we be optimistic about the future AND do something about the man-eating tiger that’s stalking us? It’s a metaphorical tiger, but it’s an important question, nonetheless. Marcus and Esme continue their exploration of bottom-up thinking (a cognitive style more prevalent among neurodivergent people) and top-down thinking (a cognitive style more prevalent among neurotypical people). They begin by taking some time to reassure their top-down thinking listeners that they are loved and that no one at Crazy Together Industries thinks they are monsters. They then explore why American society and corporate culture are so heavily biased towards top-down thinking and management models. Specifically, they reveal the links between top-down thinking and optimism bias, and discuss how one sweaty, annoying economist in the 1970s created a new model for corporate governance that supercharged the dominance of top-down models in the workplace. Marcus and Esme then close the episode by affirming that, yes, we can balance our tendency towards unrealistic optimism and deal with the many metaphorical tigers in our midst. However, they caution that it will only work if we can figure out how to balance the influence of our top-down and bottom-up thinkers. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently.  Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism.  Blackmore, Laura. “Top-Down Vs Bottom-Up Approach In Management: Key Differences.” Cascade, 17 Mar. 2025, https://www.cascade.app/blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up.  Josephs, Leslie, and Thomas Franck. “Boeing Survey Showed Employees Felt Pressure from Managers on Safety Approvals.” CNBC, 20 Oct. 2019, updated 21 Oct. 2019, https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/20/boeing-survey-shows-safety-workers-felt-pressure-from-managers-report.html.  Singh, Laura, et al. “The Effect of Optimistic Expectancies on Attention Bias: Neural and Behavioral Correlates.” Scientific Reports, vol. 10, article no. 6495, 2020, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-61440-1.  Sharot, Tali. “The Optimism Bias.” Current Biology, vol. 21, no. 23, 6 Dec. 2011, pp. R941–R945. ScienceDirect, https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982211011912.  Suster, Mark. “The Benefits of Top-Down Thinking & Why It Is Critical to Entrepreneurs.” Both Sides of the Table, 14 July 2010, https://bothsidesofthetable.com/the-benefits-of-top-down-thinking-why-it-is-critical-to-entrepreneurs-bec7789659a7.  Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    1h 1m

  7. MAY 1

    103. HYPERFOCUS BONUS: Leather goods and hair products will survive us

    Marcus reveals that he used to be a pretty big fan of post-apocalyptic movies. They were a lot more fun in his youth, when he could more easily ignore the many real-world fears and anxieties that were the constant sub-text of the genre (e.g., nuclear holocaust, fossil fuel scarcity, climate change, etc.). The movies were fun, and there was always a glimmer of hope in each one. For example, the Road Warrior reassured us that quality leather goods and hair products will remain in abundance in the future. And Waterworld aptly demonstrated that Kevin Costner can not only survive making a really bad post-apocalyptic movie, but he can also still convince people to give him millions of dollars to make another really bad post-apocalyptic movie just a few years later.  Marcus and Esme then discuss how it became more difficult for them to enjoy the genre as they entered adulthood and the underlying fears became a little more real for them.  Marcus then reveals why he has been thinking about these movies recently, and how they tie in to a sad scene he observed while taking a walk one day. But! He and Esme then close on a high note by discussing actions we can all take to make this world a little less apocalyptic.  Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Support us on Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/C0C216B887  Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    31 min

  8. APR 29

    102. Bottom-Up Thinking, Part 1: Thinking bottom-up in a top-down world

    This is the episode Marcus has been dying to make for a long time now (at least three weeks). Marcus and Esme discuss bottom-up and top-down processing: two different thinking styles that influence how people take in information and make sense of the world around them. Even though most people are capable of both styles, neurodivergent people are more likely to engage in bottom-up processing, while neurotypical people are more likely to employ a top-down approach. At first glance, it might appear the differences in the two styles are a matter of personal preference. But Marcus and Esme take a deeper dive to explore how these differences impact communications between neurodivergent and neurotypical people, and contribute to some of the biases and misconceptions about neurodivergent students and workers.  They also discuss the benefits of bottom-up thinking, and describe their experiences (some successful, some not) trying to position these benefits to their employers and coworkers. And, because this is top-down world, they share practical recommendations for developing skills across both thinking types. Be sure to come back next week for Part 2: Saving top-down thinkers from themselves. Marcus and Esme will discuss the societal impacts of top-down thinking and its relation to both confirmation and optimism bias. They’ll also make the case for a world that values both thinking styles, and consider what it would take to enable such a world. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com Contact us: https://www.crazytogetherpod.com/contact Sources for this episode include: McCann, Sam. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Thinking: Why Autistic Brains Process the World Differently.” Green Coast Counseling, 2026, https://www.greencoastcounseling.com/green-coast-counseling-therapy-blog/top-down-vs-bottom-up-thinking-why-autistic-brains-process-the-world-differently.  Lee, Crystal I. “Bottom-Up Thinking and Autism: A Different Way of Processing the World.” LA Concierge Psychologist, 2020, https://laconciergepsychologist.com/blog/bottom-up-thinking-and-autism.  Main, Paul. “Top-Down vs. Bottom-Up Processing: How Learners Think.” Structural Learning, 2026, https://www.structural-learning.com/post/top-down-processing-and-bottom-up-processing.  Our theme music Midnight—Declan DP [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch:    • Midnight — Declan DP | Free Backgroun...   Free Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/midnight-declan-dp

    53 min
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5
out of 5
10 Ratings

About

If you’re sick and tired of listening to the negative talk track playing in your head, then why not listen to us instead? We are Marcus and Esme O’Kayvius (not our real names), a married, neurodivergent couple with a lot of experience managing our own mental health issues while raising a daughter and navigating the dystopic hellscape that is corporate America. Join us each week as we discuss trending mental health issues and explore how they impact our health and wellness. We’ll also examine the myths and misconceptions associated with mental health and what we can do about them. Visit our website: crazytogetherpod.com

Information

  • Creator
    Marcus & Esme O’Kayvius
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    100
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2024 All rights reserved.
  • Show Website
    Crazy Together

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