Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

David Santistevan: Worship Leader, Blogger, Teacher
  • 4.9 (194)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Biweekly

David Santistevan from the popular davidsantistevan.com blog dives into the heart of worship leading, worship ministry, songwriting, and making disciples. Discover how you can take your worship leadership to the next level through practical teaching, expert interviews, and the latest resources for worship leaders. From developing a discipleship strategy, engaging your congregation, writing your own songs, leading your best worship, and so much more, this podcast will help you become the worship leader you are called to be.

  1. 2d ago

    #392: Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan

    Throughout church history there has always been an interesting tension between creativity and functionality. What is more important? Creating beautiful things or getting a certain message across? What is more important to worship? Right theology or beautiful art that displays the glory of God? Do we need better theology in our songs or more honesty? We intuitively know this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solv  e. No one would argue that theology doesn’t matter. But has our pursuit of rightness caused us to lose some imagination? Some humanity? Has our church culture fixation on efficiency, productivity, and uniformity formed us to forget the mystery and wonder of singing together as people? My guest today is John Mark McMillan. John Mark is a brilliant artist, singer-songwriter, and lyricist. He has existed at this interesting intersection of artistry that most people don’t understand while also writing some of the most popular worship songs of the last 30 years. We talk about a lot of things. We talk worship. We talk church. We talk spiritually formative practices. We dive into guitar tone, abuse in the church, and the real story behind the infamous line, “sloppy wet kiss.” Topics Covered: What JMM loves about life right now Reading and listening to records Why it’s helpful to listen to music different than the music you make How worship music is uniquely positioned to serve our society How we’ve missed the point of worship music The tension between creativity and serving our congregations Why you should make art for yourself and not an audience How JMM created the guitar tone on “Daylight” Why art is never safe Spiritual formation habits and practices Viewing church as a spiritual practice How to process abuse and injustice in the church The story behind “sloppy wet kiss” Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible App Show Sponsor: Planning Center 1996 by Ryuichi Sakamato Playing the Piano by Ryuichi Sakamato The Way to Love by Anthony de Mello Awareness by Anthony de Mello How Music Works by David Byrne Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house. And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer. You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God through the Bible. To get started listening, head to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for up to 50% off today! Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #392: Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 23m

  2. May 21

    #391: Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants with Evan Wickham

    I’m not a Lead Pastor, but I can’t imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today’s political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they’re navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here’s what’s interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and Immigrant families, both trying to make sense of the times in which we live. Evan’s perspective on how to pastor faithfully is enlightening. What does faithful pastoring look like? How do partisan politics compromise the gospel? Should our Sunday services address the latest issues in the news or should we just stick to the gospel? Is it possible to pastor from the political center? We can’t escape politics, no matter how much we would like to try. Politics effect how we live together. The Bible is a political book. Conversations like this rarely make anyone happy but faithful leaders need to step into the tension. Don’t miss the end of the conversation where we talk about worship, songwriting, and the presence of God in our churches. Evan’s challenge were beautiful and surprising. Topics Covered: Deconstruction and staying in the Church Why Baby Boomer pastors are not known for letting go 3 signs that you are a healthy pastor The Matt Walsh vs Evan Wickham social media beef How to think about what President Trump is saying and doing How to Pastor both right and left leaning people in your congregation What the presence of God actually means Whether we should pursue revival or not Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Christ the King of Love by Evan Wickham Evan Wickham Substack Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #391: Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants with Evan Wickham appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 10m

  3. May 13

    #390: How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 With Michael Bethany

    When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics – there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche – a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we’re going to talk about worship team culture. My guest is Michael Bethany. Michael is an award winning songwriter, artist, and worship leader. Michael coaches worship leaders and teams all over the world. We talk about how to build a healthy worship culture in 2026, developing leadership pipelines, spontaneous worship, celebrating diversity in the church, and why we need to bring back rehearsals! Topics Covered: Michael’s journey to faith in Christ Michael’s early influences The posture of a worship leader Developing a leadership pipeline in your church What worship leaders are struggling with Creating systems in your worship ministry Working on your ministry instead of working in it How to do spontaneous worship well Why we need to bring back rehearsals Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible (Click HERE for up to 50% off) Show Sponsor: Planning Center Sanctuary by Michael Bethany Michael Bethany website Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house. And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer. You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God through the Bible. To get started listening, head to dwellbible.com/beyondsunday for up to 50% off today! Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #390: How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 With Michael Bethany appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 2m

  4. Apr 30

    #389: The Tension Between Organizational Progress and Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson

    One of the practices that I believe is important for the church in America is to regularly evaluate and interrogate the systems we operate by. What can often pass as biblical is actually just business. What we believe to be Christian is actually just American. When we evaluate the systems we are shaped by, we are more prepared to pivot when our systems hurt people. When the efficiency of our churches miss what the Bible calls us to. Is it all bad? Of course not. Is it all broken? Of course not. The church imperfect. We are imperfect. I am far from perfect. But if we don’t have the courage to ask questions we can focus more on organizational progress than we do pastoral care. My conversation today is with my good friend Michael Olson. Michael is an author, musician, and worship leader. He’s a recording artists. He traveled the world playing drums for Michael W Smith. Over the last 16 years he’s led worship at two of the fastest growing churches in America. He’s also written a beautiful new memoir called Daddy Set The Church on Fire: A Journey Toward Restoration. At the heart of this book is the reality that Jesus is making all things new. The church is broken. We are broken. This world is broken. But if we have eyes to see, there is redemption all around. This is a conversation for you if you follow Jesus. If you’ve been hurt by the church. If you haven’t been hurt by the church. If you’re a worship leader and feel like a cog in an endless machine of efficiency. If you feel broken by the weight of loss and pain. We talk all about it.  Topics Covered: Developing a theology of suffering The highs and lows of growing up Pentecostal What we can learn about Spirit and Truth from Eugene Peterson The diversity of the body of Christ within the attractional mega church, reformed church, and Pentecostal church The tension between organizational progress and pastoral care The story behind Michael’s book title, “Daddy Set The Church on Fire” Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Michael’s Website Daddy Set The Church on Fire by Michael Charles Olson Songs of Restoration by Michael Charles Olson Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #389: The Tension Between Organizational Progress and Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 22m

  5. Apr 17

    #388: What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman

    Part of what I love to do with this podcast is highlight some voices that often get overlooked. Cultures that are often pushed to the margins of influence in the Church but have so much to offer us. Today I’m speaking with Terry Wildman. Terry is the Lead Translator of the First Nations Version of the Bible. Currently there is a New Testament and Psalms and Proverbs available. And the Old Testament is currently being developed. Terry is a man with native ancestry who grew up in Michigan, was saved during the Jesus Movement, and became pastor early on in his life. What’s fascinating about Terry’s story is he wasn’t exposed to the history of indigenous people until later in life. That knowledge led him down a path of decolonizing his faith, becoming a missionary to native peoples,  and learning how to disentangle what is the way of Jesus and what is not. This is a deep conversation. Some hard topics. Difficult history. But a challenge we all need.  Topics Covered: Terry’s journey of discovering his Native ancestry and culture Why what we’ve learned about Indians in American history is wrong Why we need exposure to indigenous Bible interpretation What makes unity between Native Peoples and the church challenging in our political moment What Christians in America can do today to help Native people Why we need to decolonize the Bible The history of Native Bible translation Terry’s favorite Indigenous names for God the Father and Jesus Christ Why native people view their tribes through the lens of a matriarchal, rather than patriarchal system Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center First Nations Version: An Indigenous Translation of the New Testament First Nations Version: Psalms And Proverbs Reading the Bible on Turtle Island: An Invitation to North American Indigenous Interpretation One Church, Many Tribes: Following Jesus the Way God Made You by Richard Twiss Rescuing the Gospel From the Cowboys: A Native American Expression of the Jesus Way by Richard Twiss Birth of the Chosen One: A First Nations Retelling of the Christmas Story by Terry Wildman Everything You Wanted to Know About Indians But Were Afraid to Ask Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #388: What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 29m

  6. Apr 7

    #387: Beating Procrastination With Jon Acuff

    Humans disagree on a lot of things. Religion. Politics. The best brand of peanut butter. But if there’s one area where we can find some common ground, it’s productivity. Getting stuff done. We all – to a certain degree – have to cross items off our to-do list. Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, Fortune 500 CEO, pastor, or entrepreneur, you have to take action on the goals that matter to you. That’s why I’m talking to author/speaker Jon Acuff. He’s written a book called Procrastination Proof that simultaneously makes me feel seen and convicted at the same time. You see, I’m a serial procrastinator. When I don’t know what to do next, I assume doing nothing will solve it. Problem is, it never does. If you’ve ever heard Jon speak or read any of his books, it’s a fun ride. He’s hilarious and practical. In this conversation we talk about procrastination and how to beat it. We talk about Jon’s journey as a PK and his perspective on leading a church. We talk about how to deal with criticism, small churches and mega churches, and even some worship leader jokes at no additional church. Topics Covered: Worship Leader jokes How to deal with criticism Why successful leaders develop bad habits One thing every pastor needs The four frameworks for becoming procrastination proof The validity of small churches and mega churches Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Procrastination Proof by Jon Acuff Jon Acuff website Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #387: Beating Procrastination With Jon Acuff appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    53 min

  7. Mar 27

    #386: The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, And Build A Daily Habit Around It With Zach Windahl

    It’s impossible to make an argument for a more important book in the history of the world than the Bible. I’ve grown up reading it. I’ve spent my life studying it. The BIBLE yes that’s the book for me. But the Bible is also a complicated book, full of various kinds of writing, from various authors, across many years. I’ve had my fair share of moment over the years in Leviticus, Numbers, and Song of Solomon where I’ve wondered…what is going on? We all know we’re supposed to read it. But how are we to make sense of it? How are we supposed to read it? Today I’m talking with Zach Windahl, author of the Book The Bible, Simplified. This is a conversation about the Bible – what the arc of Scripture communicates, how to read it, and strategies for building habits around prayer and bible reading.  Maybe you’re a pastor or a worship leader who opens the Bible to get a word for you congregation or ministry team, but struggle to read it or understand it consistently. This conversation is for you. Topics Covered: Zach’s journey of coming to Christ Following Jesus and suffering Why we need to understand the historical context of the Bible How to read the Bible accurately Out of context Bible verses The clumsiness of prayer How to create a habit of prayer and Bible reading Coffee routines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Get Brick The Bible, Simplified by Zach Windahl Deep Work by Cal Newport The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Atomic Habits by James Clear Glitch Coffee Roasters DAK Coffee Roasters Black & White Coffee Roasters Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #386: The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, And Build A Daily Habit Around It With Zach Windahl appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 10m

  8. Mar 10

    #385: Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti

    Topics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Planning Center Chris Kuti Instagram Multitracks Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a  panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to planningcenter.com/blog. The post #385: Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti appeared first on Beyond Sunday Worship.

    1h 13m
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About

David Santistevan from the popular davidsantistevan.com blog dives into the heart of worship leading, worship ministry, songwriting, and making disciples. Discover how you can take your worship leadership to the next level through practical teaching, expert interviews, and the latest resources for worship leaders. From developing a discipleship strategy, engaging your congregation, writing your own songs, leading your best worship, and so much more, this podcast will help you become the worship leader you are called to be.

Information

  • Creator
    David Santistevan: Worship Leader, Blogger, Teacher
  • Years Active
    2013 - 2026
  • Episodes
    200
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    Copyright © David Santistevan 2016
  • Show Website
    Beyond Sunday Worship Leader Podcast

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