Let's Talk EVM

Co-hosts: Amber Young and Barbara Phillips

A public service podcast to engage with the Earned Value Management (EVM) community

Episodes

  1. Episode 11: The Case for Transformative Change with Dave Kester and Daniel Goldsmith

    6D AGO

    Episode 11: The Case for Transformative Change with Dave Kester and Daniel Goldsmith

    Episode 11 explores a big question facing the earned value community today: is incremental improvement enough, or is it time for something more transformative? Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined by returning guest Daniel Goldsmith and special guest Dave Kester for a thoughtful conversation about the case for transformative change in how Earned Value Management Systems are understood, implemented, and assessed. With decades of experience across government and industry, Dave brings a perspective shaped by nearly 40 years in project management, including leadership roles at the Department of Energy. The discussion centers on a growing recognition within the community that improving EVMS may require more than small adjustments to compliance practices. Instead, the conversation explores the idea of rethinking the broader system: the structures, behaviors, and organizational culture that influence whether EVMS actually delivers useful, credible data for decision-making. A key theme throughout the episode is the role of environment. Drawing on research conducted through the Arizona State University IP2M METRR study, the guests discuss the emerging understanding that EVMS maturity is closely tied to the environment surrounding a project. In other words, culture, collaboration, leadership behavior, and stakeholder alignment may matter just as much as the technical mechanics of the system itself. Listeners will also hear insights from a real-world facilitation of an IP2M METRR environment assessment conducted during the week of the recording. The group shares what these assessments look like in practice, how they bring together different stakeholder perspectives, and how structured conversations around culture, people, practices, and resources can reveal pressure points that traditional compliance reviews might miss. The conversation touches on the power of “light-bulb moments” when project teams begin to see how communication, collaboration, and shared understanding shape the effectiveness of their EVMS. It also explores how a more collaborative, non-punitive approach can help teams surface honest insights and move toward meaningful improvement. At its core, this episode is about rethinking how we pursue project success. Instead of focusing only on the mechanics of the system, the discussion invites listeners to consider the human and organizational factors that ultimately determine whether earned value becomes a powerful management tool—or just another reporting requirement. For practitioners, program leaders, and anyone interested in the future of earned value, this episode offers a thought-provoking look at where the discipline may be headed next.

    32 min
  2. Episode 10: Scheduling - Focus on Critical Path

    MAR 13

    Episode 10: Scheduling - Focus on Critical Path

    Episode 10 turns its attention to one of the most talked-about — and most misunderstood — ideas in scheduling: the critical path. Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined by ⁠Kenny Arnold⁠ of SSI for a focused conversation on what the critical path really is, why it matters, and why getting it wrong can quietly distort how a team sees risk, urgency, and progress. Kenny brings a rare perspective to the discussion: he is not only a practitioner in the earned value and scheduling space, but also the developer behind tools built specifically to analyze driving and critical paths inside Microsoft Project. That combination makes this episode especially rich for listeners who want more than a surface-level explanation. What makes this episode worth your time is that it does not stop at textbook definitions. It gets into the real-world tension between theory and practice — how scheduling language is used, misused, stretched, and interpreted differently depending on the tool, the stakeholder, and the context. If you have ever sat in a review meeting and heard people confidently say critical path while meaning three different things, this conversation will feel very familiar. At a higher level, this episode is really about focus. How do you know what deserves attention now? How do you distinguish what is truly driving a milestone from what simply looks important? And how do you build schedules that are not just technically compliant, but actually useful for decision-making? Kenny helps unpack why those questions matter so much, especially when teams are trying to use schedules as management tools rather than static reporting artifacts. The conversation also opens up broader insights about the relationship between schedulers and CAMs, the importance of naming conventions and schedule structure, and why a healthy schedule is about more than software settings. There is a strong undercurrent here about communication, clarity, and craftsmanship — the idea that good scheduling is not just data entry, but analysis, interpretation, and disciplined thinking. You will also hear references to the broader scheduling community and best-practice guidance, including the PASEG, which makes this episode especially useful for listeners who want to connect day-to-day schedule work to the larger body of practice behind it. This is a great episode for schedulers, CAMs, project controls professionals, and program managers alike — especially anyone who wants to sharpen how they think about schedule logic, criticality, and what it really means to manage a project proactively. It will likely leave you with new questions, stronger instincts, and a renewed respect for the complexity hiding inside a single phrase: focus on critical path.

    46 min
  3. Episode 9: Portfolio Performance Management with John Driessnack

    MAR 6

    Episode 9: Portfolio Performance Management with John Driessnack

    Episode 9, Portfolio Performance Management, steps back from the single-project view and asks a bigger question: how do leaders actually manage performance when the real work lives in a portfolio — dozens of programs, evolving priorities, shared resources, and outcomes that can’t be captured by one set of project metrics. Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined by ⁠John Driessnack⁠, a longtime program and portfolio practitioner with deep roots in earned value, standards work, and teaching leadership. Together, they unpack why portfolio performance management is having a moment right now — not because it’s new, but because the quality and portability of data has finally caught up to the ambition. If you’ve ever felt like your organization has plenty of data but not enough clarity, this episode is for you. What makes this conversation worth a listen is that it doesn’t treat portfolio management like a buzzword or a bigger spreadsheet. John introduces a way of thinking that reframes portfolio performance as a strategic discipline: aligning work to outcomes, understanding capacity and capability, and making decisions that create synergy across programs — value that no single project can deliver on its own. You’ll also hear a fascinating thread that connects the past to the future: stories from the early days of schedule performance measurement, what’s changed since the era of mainframes and hand-drawn WBS and OBS charts, and why those roots matter as we move toward modern centralized repositories and more standardized data exchange. It’s both a history lesson and a hint at where the field is headed next. And if you’re working anywhere near defense, government, or large-scale portfolios, the stakes are real: the conversation touches on a shifting landscape where portfolio accountability is becoming more formalized — including the emergence of the PAE, Portfolio Acquisition Executive — and where the expectations for how portfolios are measured, baselined, and managed are evolving fast. This episode is less about giving you all the answers and more about opening up the right questions — the kind that change how you think about performance, leadership, and what it really means to manage value at scale. You’ll leave with new mental models, a few aha moments, and a strong urge to keep listening. John also shares where to find his work on LinkedIn, including his newsletter ⁠Portfolio Acq Executive (PAE)⁠, for anyone who wants to follow the ideas beyond the episode.

    44 min
  4. Episode 8: For the Love of Scheduling with Lisa Hastings

    FEB 27

    Episode 8: For the Love of Scheduling with Lisa Hastings

    February is our month of EVM love, so we’re calling this one—affectionately—“For the Love of Scheduling.” In this episode, Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined by ⁠Lisa Hastings⁠, a respected scheduling leader with two decades of experience across defense programs, development efforts, and earned value environments. This conversation steps back from day-to-day mechanics and looks at scheduling through a wider lens: why it remains foundational to program performance, what distinguishes a credible schedule from one that simply looks good on paper, and how strong schedulers contribute far beyond maintaining timelines. Lisa brings a practitioner’s perspective to the evolving role of the scheduling analyst, highlighting the blend of analytical thinking, technical understanding, and communication skills that modern programs demand. The episode also touches on the realities of building scheduling capability within organizations — from developing entry-level talent to shaping career paths — along with how teams should think about schedule quality, metrics, and the intent behind common assessment approaches. Rather than treating measures as rigid scorecards, the discussion centers on how they can inform judgment, decision-making, and program insight. We also explore the broader professional landscape of scheduling, including the influence of industry guidance such as the⁠ Planning & Scheduling Excellence Guide (PASEG)⁠, a widely used resource developed collaboratively by government and industry. For listeners looking to deepen their understanding of scheduling principles and best practices, PASEG serves as an important reference point in the discipline. Finally, the conversation turns toward the future, reflecting on how data, tools, and emerging technologies like AI are reshaping how schedules are analyzed, interpreted, and used — while reinforcing the enduring value of human expertise in turning information into action. Whether you’re a scheduler, program manager, CAM, or simply someone who depends on schedules to make decisions, this episode offers a thoughtful and engaging perspective on why scheduling continues to sit at the heart of effective program management.

    32 min
  5. Episode 7: Tell Your Neighbor - What is IP2M METRR?

    FEB 20

    Episode 7: Tell Your Neighbor - What is IP2M METRR?

    Episode 7 is a short “Tell Your Neighbor” segment designed to keep things simple, timely, and genuinely explainable to a non-specialist. This time we tackle IP2M METRR—the Integrated Project/Program Management Maturity and Environment Total Risk Rating framework—so you can walk away with a clear sense of what it is, where it came from, and why it matters. Joining the conversation is our recurring guest Daniel Goldsmith, and in a fun twist, Amber Young appears as a guest (not a co-host)—bringing firsthand experience from the earliest days of the framework’s use at the Department of Energy. Amber shares that she participated in the first IP2M METRR environment assessment for DOE and has supported both maturity and environment assessments since 2020. Daniel was introduced to IP2M METRR in 2021 after joining DOE, has participated in multiple reviews, completed training, and has even facilitated assessments. Barbara also notes that all three were part of the initial IP2M METRR facilitator certification cohort in 2024 (right before the Empower User’s Group), and she celebrates earning her facilitator certification (yes—“certifiable,” in the best way). The heart of the episode is two questions: 1. How was IP2M METRR developed—was it just someone drafting criteria on a piece of paper? Daniel explains that it came from a large, research-backed collaboration—funded by DOE and led with Arizona State University—with input from multiple government agencies and industry. The initial aim was to create a structured way to evaluate Earned Value Management systems by studying patterns across successful and struggling projects. That work included broad participation, surveys, workshops, and extensive document review—resulting in a growing body of published research. 2. What’s the difference between “maturity” and “environment,” and which matters more? Amber offers a clean distinction: maturity = EVMS (the established system—processes, rigor, standards, and how EVMS is built and maintained). Environment is the additional dimension: the “squishy” people-and-culture factors—transparency, leadership behavior, communication norms, resourcing, and how work actually gets implemented day to day. Daniel adds a practical example of why environment matters: you can have perfect processes on paper, but if culture or leadership overrides the truth, the metrics will mislead you—sometimes until it’s too late. They close with a nuanced take: it depends on the phase—maturity may dominate the “review” lens, while environment often determines whether real improvement and corrective action is possible.

    18 min
  6. Episode 6: Tell Your Neighbor - What is EVM?

    FEB 13

    Episode 6: Tell Your Neighbor - What is EVM?

    In Episode 6 of Let’s Talk EVM, Amber Young and Barbara Phillips introduce a new short-form segment, “Tell Your Neighbor,” designed to explain Earned Value Management in plain, practical language. Joined by recurring guest Daniel Goldsmith, the conversation steps back from technical jargon to answer a deceptively simple question: What is EVM, really? Rather than focusing on formulas and acronyms, the discussion reframes EVM as something far more intuitive — integrated project management. Barbara traces the roots of EVM to foundational management and industrial engineering principles, emphasizing that performance management is not a modern invention but a long-standing discipline centered on efficiency, measurement, and decision-making. From there, the group explores what “integration” actually means: connecting scope, schedule, and budget so that teams can see not just how much money is being spent, but whether progress aligns with the plan. EVM, as described in the episode, becomes less about reporting and more about visibility, early warning, and communication. Through relatable examples — from home improvement projects to wedding planning — the hosts highlight that the underlying logic of EVM exists in everyday decision-making. At its core, the discipline is about defining what “done” looks like, measuring performance, and using data to guide corrective action. Daniel offers a practical lens, describing EVM as one of the most data-driven forms of project management, where structured planning, performance assessment, and forecasting work together to support better decisions. The episode reinforces a central theme of the podcast: EVM is not a cure-all, but a tool for insight — helping teams understand what is happening, what may happen next, and where attention is needed. A foundational, accessible conversation for both seasoned practitioners and those newly curious about Earned Value Management.

    17 min
  7. Episode 5: Love Hate Love about EVM with Luis Contreras

    FEB 6

    Episode 5: Love Hate Love about EVM with Luis Contreras

    This February episode of Let’s Talk EVM leans into the Valentine’s theme with a “love–hate–love sandwich” — and welcomes ⁠Luis Contreras⁠, CEO of AzTech International, to talk candidly about what makes Earned Value Management both challenging and worth it. First: the love. Luis, Amber Young, and Barbara Phillips explore the idea that EVM can be a game — not “gaming the system,” but gamification in the positive sense. They compare project management to placing bets on outcomes: When will we finish? What will it cost? Will we be ahead or behind next month? The point isn’t perfection — it’s building a culture where teams can make forecasts, learn, and improve without fear of being wrong. From “guessing” exercises to making the work more engaging, the message is clear: EVM is rigorous, data-driven, and it can still be human. Then: the hate. The group digs into a common frustration — when EVM becomes “just a report.” When teams treat the IPMR/IPMDAR as the end goal, the work turns into box-checking, and energy gets burned on report health and editorial “trips,” instead of using the tools to manage the program. They discuss how customer/contractor dynamics and an overly reactive environment can create a culture that feels threatened by the data rather than supported by it — including the temptation to “pull the date back” until you’re ready to reveal bad news. And finally: the love returns. The antidote is usage and culture: look at the schedule weekly, run the critical path, use the indicators early, and let the data tell the story. Luis shares a mindset shift that helps teams breathe: call it a “VAR party,” embrace “oops and yikes,” and remember that on any real program, some control accounts will turn red — and that’s where leadership should help, not blame. They also spotlight the “certainty of uncertainty” in EVM: credible data is predictive, surprises will happen, and that’s what keeps the work meaningful. A warm, practical episode about building healthier EVM culture — one forecast, one variance, and one “VAR party” at a time.

    44 min
  8. Episode 4: CAM's Corner with Brie Smith

    JAN 30

    Episode 4: CAM's Corner with Brie Smith

    Welcome to Episode 4 of Let’s Talk EVM—and the debut of our brand-new segment: CAM’s Corner. Hosts Amber Young and Barbara Phillips sit down with ⁠Brie Smith⁠, a former Control Account Manager (CAM) with deep experience in defense contracting and EVM work, who later transitioned into consulting and EVM surveillance with NASA. Brie walks us through how she became a CAM, starting with her academic path (including a computer science foundation, business administration, and an “electronic business” focus), and how early exposure to earned value concepts, scheduling fundamentals, and real-world internship experience on a large DOD sustainment program helped set her up for success. From there, the conversation gets practical—fast. Brie shares what the CAM role really feels like in the day-to-day, including: • Learning the monthly rhythm of program controls and how to stay ahead of it • Building strong working relationships with PP&C / program controls teams and knowing when to ask for help • Getting out from behind the desk to meet the people charging to your control accounts, understand the work, and manage budgets without becoming “the annoying budget cop” • Gaining confidence in monthly variance analysis by understanding what’s happening technically, asking better questions, and being prepared to explain changes and variances to a government customer • Training and professional development—what helped (including early exposure to Defense Acquisition University training) and why in-person learning can make a difference The episode also touches the bigger theme beneath CAM work: credibility—how good CAM habits (knowing the work, knowing the people, knowing the data) create clearer narratives, stronger forecasts, and better conversations with leadership and customers. If you’ve ever wondered what CAMs do, what makes a CAM effective, or how to grow into the role with confidence—this episode is for you. (Episode summary written with assistance from ChatGPT)

    33 min
  9. Episode 3: Bidding Contracts with EVMS with Michael Breuker

    JAN 23

    Episode 3: Bidding Contracts with EVMS with Michael Breuker

    In Episode 3 of Let’s Talk EVM, hosts Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined by Michael Breuker of Pinnacle Management Systems for a deep, practical conversation on what it truly means to bid contracts with an Earned Value Management System (EVMS)—and why proposal decisions often create consequences long after contract award. Drawing on nearly 30 years of program management and EVMS consulting experience, Michael explains how EVMS requirements show up in solicitations, why “having a validated system” is often misunderstood during bidding, and what agencies are really asking for when EVMS language appears in an RFP. The discussion breaks down the role of the cognizant federal agency (CFA), differences in validation approaches across DOD, NASA, DOE, FAA, and civilian agencies, and how reciprocal acceptance (or lack thereof) affects contractors. Key discussion areas include: - What it actually means to bid an EVMS contract—and why validation can’t be rushed - Why companies often pursue EVMS validation for proposal points rather than management value - When and how EVMS plans are submitted as part of a proposal response - What a credible EVMS implementation plan must include: current-state description, gap analysis, and a realistic plan of action - Why agencies typically wait until after the Integrated Baseline Review (IBR)—often six months in—to conduct deeper compliance assessments - The role of self-assessments, third-party reviews, and how DCMA approaches validation - Why waiting to invest in EVMS until after contract award is usually “too late” The episode also explores “EVM Light,” scalability, and foundational project controls, including scheduling, budgeting, forecasting, and risk management. Michael emphasizes that while not every program needs full EIA-748 rigor on day one, foundational elements must be in place early—and that risk, more than compliance, ultimately determines business success. The conversation closes with broader reflections on leadership trust in data, why executives care about EACs and forecasts, and how credible EVMS data supports real business decisions—from profitability to staffing to cash flow. This episode is especially valuable for proposal teams, project controls professionals, consultants, and leaders navigating EVMS requirements during competitive bids and early contract execution.

    43 min
  10. Episode 2: The Cost of EVM with Ivan Bembers

    JAN 16

    Episode 2: The Cost of EVM with Ivan Bembers

    Join us as we discuss the cost of EVM with esteemed guest Ivan Bembers, focusing on the Joint Space Cost Council (JSCC) EVM cost study that he co-authored. Some related links: [https://www.acq.osd.mil/asda/dpc/api/ipm/docs/jscc_better_evms_implementation_study.pdf](https://www.acq.osd.mil/asda/dpc/api/ipm/docs/jscc_better_evms_implementation_study.pdf) [https://www.dau.edu/sites/default/files/Migrate/DATLFiles/Jan-Feb2017/Bembers_Knox_Jones_Traczyk.pdf](https://www.dau.edu/sites/default/files/Migrate/DATLFiles/Jan-Feb2017/Bembers_Knox_Jones_Traczyk.pdf) --- AI Summary (from ChatGPT based on Camtasia transcript): In this episode of Let’s Talk EVM, hosts Amber Young and Barbara Phillips tackle one of the most persistent and misunderstood topics in earned value management: its true cost. The discussion opens with a “soapbox” moment highlighting the critical role of Control Account Managers (CAMs), emphasizing that meaningful CAM training is not just about compliance interviews, but about enabling real use of EVM data to manage programs effectively. The conversation then turns to long-standing assumptions about EVM being overly burdensome or expensive—assumptions often made without supporting evidence. To address these myths, the hosts welcome Ivan Bembers, a respected EVM practitioner with more than 20 years of federal service experience and a key contributor to the JSCC EVM cost study. Ivan provides important historical context for the JSCC, which was formed in 2009 as a joint government–industry effort to improve cost estimating and cost management practices, particularly during the budget-constrained environment following sequestration. He explains how the EVM cost study was initiated in response to pressure on programs to reduce costs responsibly, rather than making uninformed cuts. The study itself stands out for its scale and rigor. Drawing on input from major aerospace and defense companies, the team collected approximately 1,600 survey responses and more than 3,600 data points. Ivan describes how strict data protections and anonymization were used to preserve industry trust while maintaining analytical credibility. Subject matter experts from both government and industry collaborated to analyze the data and reach consensus on findings. A key takeaway from the study is that EVM cost is not driven by EVM itself, but by how it is implemented. One of the primary cost drivers identified is the number and sizing of control accounts. Ivan refers to this as “the art of EVM”—finding the right balance between too much detail, which creates unnecessary maintenance and data overload, and too little detail, which limits insight into performance drivers and variances. Throughout the episode, listeners gain a clearer, evidence-based understanding of where EVM costs truly come from, why thoughtful system design matters, and how better implementation decisions can reduce burden while increasing value. The discussion reinforces that EVM, when applied intelligently, is not a cost problem—it is a management asset.

    39 min

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
2 Ratings

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A public service podcast to engage with the Earned Value Management (EVM) community

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