Let's Talk EVM

Co-hosts: Amber Young and Barbara Phillips

A public service podcast to engage with the Earned Value Management (EVM) community

  1. 4d ago

    Episode 27: The Birth of the IP2M METRR with Edd Gibson

    Every framework has a story. But few are born through years of research, spirited debate, rigorous testing, and collaboration across government, industry, and academia. In this episode, Amber and Barbara welcome Dr. Edd Gibson, President of the National Academy of Construction and former professor at Arizona State University, to share the remarkable story behind the creation of IP2M METRR—the Integrated Project and Program Management Maturity and Environment Total Risk Rating. From its earliest concept to a research-backed assessment framework, Dr. Gibson explains how one simple question evolved into a multi-year effort to better understand what makes project management systems truly effective. The conversation explores how the research team quickly discovered that even experienced practitioners struggled to agree on fundamental definitions of EVM and EVMS. Rather than forcing predetermined answers, the team embraced the scientific method, assembling nearly 30 experts from government, industry, and academia to challenge assumptions, debate terminology, and build consensus through evidence. What followed was an extensive effort involving literature reviews, international surveys, workshops with nearly one hundred organizations, and countless hours of analyzing feedback to ensure the final framework reflected the collective knowledge of the profession—not the opinion of any one individual. One of the study's most important discoveries was unexpected: technical excellence alone does not determine project success. The research revealed that organizational culture, leadership, and the environment in which project teams operate are just as critical as the technical maturity of the management system itself. Dr. Gibson explains why IP2M METRR intentionally measures both dimensions – maturity and environment, offering a more complete picture of project health than traditional assessments alone. The discussion also addresses critiques of the framework, the value of measuring maturity, and why rigorous research sometimes leads to answers no one initially expected. Whether you've heard of IP2M METRR or are discovering it for the first time, this episode offers a fascinating behind-the-scenes look at how a major advancement in project management came to life. Join us as we explore the research, collaboration, and curiosity that gave birth to one of the profession's most innovative approaches to understanding—and improving—project management maturity. Links for IP2M METRR: ASU: https://ip2m.engineering.asu.edu/ DOE: https://www.energy.gov/projectmanagement/articles/ip2m-metrr-asu-evms-study Link to Measurable News referenced in the episode: coming soon

    Episode 27: The Birth of the IP2M METRR with Edd Gibson
  2. Jul 3

    Episode 26: Challenges Remain with Jim Henderson

    What can decades of Earned Value Management history teach us about the challenges we still face today? In this episode, Amber and Barbara are joined by Jim Henderson, a respected EVMS leader whose career spans the U.S. Air Force, Naval Air Systems Command, NASA, Defense Contract Management Agency, DOE, and years of consulting across government and industry. Drawing on more than four decades of experience, Jim shares a firsthand account of how EVMS has evolved—and why many of its biggest challenges remain. The conversation explores pivotal moments in EVMS history, including the lessons learned from the A-12 program and the organizational changes that reshaped oversight, surveillance, and system validation. Jim explains how inconsistent customer expectations, fragmented oversight, and the transition from validation to long-term surveillance influenced the development of today's EVMS practices. Along the way, he offers a rare insider's perspective on how government agencies, contractors, and review teams have worked to strengthen the discipline over time. But this episode isn't just about history. Jim argues that the greatest challenge today isn't simply producing compliant EVMS data—it's ensuring leaders actually use that information to make better technical, cost, and schedule decisions. The discussion highlights the continuing importance of effective surveillance, experienced reviewers, and maintaining a healthy management system long after initial validation. Whether you're new to EVMS or have spent years working in the field, this episode provides valuable historical context, practical lessons, and thoughtful perspectives on where the discipline has been—and where it still has room to grow. Join us as we explore why, despite decades of progress, the challenges remain.

    Episode 26: Challenges Remain with Jim Henderson
  3. Jun 26

    Episode 25: Are You Ready to Baseline? with Kevin Jackameit

    When is a project truly ready to establish its Performance Measurement Baseline (PMB)? In this episode, Amber and Barbara welcome Kevin Jackameit, a seasoned EVM and independent review expert, to explore what it really means to be "ready to baseline"—and why that decision is about far more than simply finishing a schedule or cost estimate. Together, they unpack the fundamentals of a successful baseline, discussing the critical ingredients that must come together before a project is ready for measurement. Kevin shares lessons from nearly three decades of experience supporting federal acquisition programs, capital asset projects, and mega projects, explaining how work breakdown structures, schedules, cost estimates, risk, and technical planning must all align to create a meaningful foundation for project execution. The conversation also dives into the differences between Integrated Baseline Reviews (IBRs) and External Independent Reviews (EIRs), comparing how various federal agencies approach baseline approval, readiness, and oversight. Along the way, the discussion explores practical questions every project team faces: Should you begin collecting performance data before an IBR? Who ultimately decides a baseline is ready? And how do you balance the desire for a "perfect" baseline with the reality that projects inevitably evolve? Perhaps most importantly, Kevin explains why organizations should never fear change. A baseline is not a promise of perfection—it's the starting point for informed decision-making. The willingness to measure performance, identify issues early, and improve over time is what ultimately leads to successful project delivery. Whether you're preparing for your first baseline review or have participated in dozens of them, this episode offers practical insights into one of the most important—and often misunderstood—milestones in Earned Value Management. Join the conversation as we explore what it really takes to build a baseline that's ready to guide project success.

    Episode 25: Are You Ready to Baseline? with Kevin Jackameit
  4. Jun 18

    Episode 24: The Human Side of EVM with Dave Kester

    Why do some Earned Value Management (EVM) systems succeed while others struggle—even when both are technically compliant? In this episode, Amber and Barbara welcome back recurring guest Dave Kester to explore the often-overlooked human side of EVM and why leadership, culture, trust, and organizational behavior can make or break program success. There is a survey associated with this podcast - take the survey here! https://www.menti.com/al6683o1a3t3 Together, they examine the difference between compliance and effectiveness, asking whether EVM is truly being used to drive better decisions or simply to document problems after they occur. The conversation explores how leadership influences transparency, how organizational culture shapes reporting behaviors, and why creating an environment where people can surface bad news is essential for successful program management. The discussion also revisits the historic A-12 Avenger II program, not simply as a technical failure, but as a powerful example of how optimism bias, communication, and organizational culture can influence outcomes. Dave shares insights from the development of the IP2M METRR framework and explains why evaluating a program's environment may be just as important as evaluating its management system. Whether you're an executive, project manager, CAM, scheduler, analyst, or simply interested in improving project performance, this episode offers a thought-provoking perspective on the people behind the processes—and why the future of EVM depends as much on human behavior as it does on data. Join the conversation as we explore the human side of EVM and what it takes to build environments where better decisions—and better outcomes—can thrive.

    Episode 24: The Human Side of EVM with Dave Kester
  5. Jun 12

    Episode 23: State of the Podcast

    Episode 23: State of the Podcast In this special episode of Let’s Talk EVM, hosts Amber Young and Barbara Phillips step away from their usual guest interviews to reflect on the journey of the podcast itself. What began as an idea over dinner and a shared passion for the Earned Value Management community has grown into more than twenty episodes, a thriving professional network, and conversations reaching listeners far beyond the hosts’ immediate circles. Centered on gratitude, this episode offers a candid look behind the microphone as Amber and Barbara discuss the origins of the podcast, memorable moments from the first season, lessons learned along the way, and the incredible support they have received from guests, listeners, and the broader project controls community. The conversation revisits some of the themes that have shaped the show—from the value of insight and transparency in project management to the importance of constructive challenge, professional growth, and meaningful collaboration. Along the way, the hosts reflect on standout discussions, the evolution of the podcast’s mission, and why so many passionate professionals continue to dedicate themselves to advancing the practice of EVM. Listeners will also get a behind-the-scenes glimpse into how the podcast operates, including the recording cadence, upcoming guest lineup, community engagement efforts, plans for future events, expansion into new platforms, and ideas already taking shape for Season Two. Most importantly, this episode is a celebration of the people who make the community what it is. From industry thought leaders and first-time guests to loyal listeners and LinkedIn contributors, Amber and Barbara share their appreciation for everyone who has helped make Let’s Talk EVM more than just a podcast—it has become a place where conversations continue, ideas are exchanged, and the community comes together. Part reflection, part gratitude, and part look ahead, State of the Podcast is a chance to pause, celebrate the journey so far, and look forward to what comes next for Let’s Talk EVM.

    Episode 23: State of the Podcast
  6. Jun 4

    Episode 22: Scheduling According to the Experts: A Panel

    Episode 22: Scheduling According to the Experts: A Panel In this special episode of Let’s Talk EVM, Amber Young and Barbara Phillips recap a lively and thought-provoking panel discussion focused on Guideline 6: Schedule the Authorized Work, recorded during a working group meeting at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL) in Pasadena, California. Without a formal guest this time, Amber and Barbara take listeners behind the scenes of a two-hour panel featuring leaders from across the scheduling and Earned Value Management community. The discussion explored some of the most debated and evolving topics in project scheduling — from schedule realism and executable plans to schedule quality metrics, AI-assisted scheduling, integration, forecasting, and organizational culture. The episode walks through six major themes from the panel, including foundational interpretations of Guideline 6: Schedule the Authorized Work, including risk and uncertainty, data discipline, modernization through automation and AI, stakeholder alignment, and the cultural behaviors that ultimately shape schedule credibility. Along the way, Amber and Barbara reflect on memorable insights from the panelists. Listeners will hear discussions around schedule margin versus float, realism versus compliance, predictive versus performative metrics, and the ongoing challenge of building schedules that are not only technically sound, but actually useful for decision-making. The conversation also dives into massive integrated master schedules, software performance limitations, WBS and IMS integration, JSON schema enforcement, and the tension between passing health metrics and creating truly executable plans. Perhaps most importantly, the episode highlights the human side of project controls — emphasizing collaboration, communication, integration, and the idea that successful project teams are built on trust and shared mission. Closing on reflections inspired by NASA’s broader purpose of benefiting humanity, Amber and Barbara connect the discipline of scheduling back to the larger meaning behind the projects themselves. Part technical deep dive, part community reflection, and part conference recap, this episode captures the energy of a field actively thinking about where scheduling — and project controls as a whole — is headed next.

    Episode 22: Scheduling According to the Experts: A Panel
  7. May 28

    Episode 21: Commentary - IP2M METRR, G.4 Control of Retroactive Changes with Ivan Bembers

    Episode 21: Commentary - IP2M METRR, G.4 Control of Retroactive Changes with Ivan Bembers In this special commentary episode of Let’s Talk EVM, Amber Young and Barbara Phillips launch a new series exploring concepts, attributes, and factors within IP2M METRR — the Integrated Project/Program Management Maturity and Environment Total Risk Rating framework. This episode focuses on Subprocess G: Change Control, specifically G.4 Control of Retroactive Changes, featuring commentary and expert insight from recurring guest Ivan Bembers. Recorded during the NDIA IPMD meeting in Reston, Virginia, Ivan shares perspectives on one of the most discipline-driven areas within Earned Value Management: protecting the integrity, traceability, and credibility of previously reported performance data. As Amber and Barbara react to Ivan’s cameo discussion in real time, the conversation expands into broader topics surrounding EVMS discipline, business rhythm, baseline integrity, auditability, reporting cycles, and the risks associated with rewriting historical performance information. The episode explores why retroactive changes matter far beyond compliance — impacting forecasting confidence, decision-making, customer trust, and the overall reliability of program data. The discussion also touches on monthly reporting cadence, variance analysis expectations, system descriptions, IPMDAR reporting realities, and the delicate balance between rigor, flexibility, and collaboration between contractors and customers. Throughout the episode, the hosts reflect on the evolving role of EVMS as both a management system and a communication framework designed to support informed decisions rather than punitive oversight. Blending practical experience, industry perspective, and candid conversation, this commentary episode offers listeners a deeper look into one of the foundational disciplines behind trustworthy project controls data — and why maintaining confidence in the past is essential for making decisions about the future.

    Episode 21: Commentary - IP2M METRR, G.4 Control of Retroactive Changes with Ivan Bembers
  8. May 22

    Episode 20: IMS Data Dictionary+ with Janay Bloch, Scheduling Sharp Shooter

    Episode 20: IMS Data Dictionary+ with Janay Bloch, Scheduling Sharp Shooter takes listeners deep into the world of integrated scheduling, schedule health, and the structures that make complex programs understandable, traceable, and actionable. Amber Young and Barbara Phillips are joined live from the Empower Users Group, EUG, conference in Florida by scheduling expert Janay Bloch of ClearPlan Consulting. The conversation explores how strong scheduling practices go far beyond timelines and dates — touching everything from EVMS integration and compliance to communication, forecasting, internal surveillance, and organizational maturity. At the center of the discussion is Janay’s passionate advocacy for the IMS Data Dictionary as one of the most important — and often overlooked — communication tools in scheduling. The episode examines how schedule architecture, field mapping, standardized coding structures, and clearly defined data relationships help programs create accurate, credible schedules that can actually support decision-making. The group discusses how integrated data structures improve traceability across contractors, support IPMDAR and DOE JSON CPP reporting, and create shared understanding between teams, subcontractors, analysts, and government reviewers. The conversation also dives into schedule realism and health metrics, including the evolution of the DCMA 14-Point Assessment, out-of-sequence logic, current execution analysis, and the importance of weekly statusing. Janay shares perspectives from both industry and government experience, including compliance and surveillance work, emphasizing that reliable earned value performance depends on reliable schedules. Throughout the episode, the hosts reflect on the practical realities of schedule execution, CAM engagement, critical path analysis, and what happens when program data loses credibility. Blending technical depth with candid conversation, the episode highlights how disciplined scheduling practices create stronger forecasting, better integration, and more trustworthy program insight — while also reinforcing the growing importance of communication, transparency, and data literacy across modern project controls environments.

    Episode 20: IMS Data Dictionary+ with Janay Bloch, Scheduling Sharp Shooter

Ratings & Reviews

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A public service podcast to engage with the Earned Value Management (EVM) community