Outthinkers

Outthinker
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The Outthinkers podcast is a growth strategy podcast hosted by Kaihan Krippendorff. Each week, Kaihan talks with forward-looking strategists and innovators that are challenging the status quo, leading the future of business, and shaping our world.Chief strategy officers and executives can learn more and join the Outthinker community at https://outthinkernetwork.com/. 

  1. #165 — How AI Is Killing Traditional Market Research: Peter Weinberg

    APR 21

    #165 — How AI Is Killing Traditional Market Research: Peter Weinberg

    Peter Weinberg is the founder of Evidenza, an AI-powered synthetic research platform, and a former LinkedIn executive where he co-founded the B2B Institute. Over a decade at LinkedIn, Peter helped reframe how B2B brands think about growth — shifting the industry's focus from bottom-of-funnel conversion toward brand building, mental availability, and reaching buyers before they enter the market. His work draws heavily on the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute's frameworks, and he's collaborated with some of the world's largest B2B organisations on marketing strategy and segmentation. Most market research never gets done. It's too slow, too expensive, and the people you most need to reach — CFOs, in-house counsel, niche enterprise buyers — simply don't take surveys. So companies either skip research entirely or make decisions based on what the sales team heard from the three customers who called last week. Synthetic research changes that equation. By using AI to simulate statistically representative populations of real customer types, organisations can now get directionally accurate, quantitative customer intelligence in a fraction of the time and cost of traditional research. Peter's company, Evidenza, has validated this approach across dozens of markets and categories — consistently finding 80–95% alignment between synthetic and human survey responses. In this episode, we explore what that means for how companies understand customers, structure their innovation funnels, and rethink the long-standing political battle between marketing and sales over who really owns the voice of the customer. In this episode we cover: What synthetic research actually is — and why "lab-grown customers" may be more reliable than survey respondents clicking through for an Applebee's gift card The accuracy question: how closely AI-simulated responses match real human data, and what it means when they diverge How synthetic research could reshape the innovation funnel — moving from testing 3 ideas a year to testing thousands Why the real opportunity isn't hyper-personalisation, but finding the mass-market commonalities that drive scale The adoption barrier that has nothing to do with AI scepticism: organisations that wouldn't act on good market research even if you handed it to them Episode Timeline: 00:00 — Highlight from today's episode00:34 — Introducing Peter + the topic of today's episode02:55 — If you really know me, you know that...03:45 — What's your definition of strategy?06:04 — Peter's decade at LinkedIn and the case for B2B brand building07:41 — The Ehrenberg-Bass Institute: mental and physical availability10:24 — What is synthetic research?13:16 — Accuracy, speed, and cost: the three metrics that matter14:54 — When human surveys lie (and synthetic respondents don't)17:49 — Can you use synthetic research for internal adoption challenges?19:59 — How synthetic research widens the innovation funnel23:27 — Who owns the voice of the customer: marketing vs. sales26:50 — Micro-segmentation vs. mass marketing — which does AI actually favour?30:59 — Barriers to adoption: AI sceptics, soft rejectors, and market orientation33:48 — When AI outperforms humans with AI (the doctor study)35:57 — How to follow Peter and find Evidenza Additional Resources: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/weinbergpeter/ Website: evidenza.ai Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    37 min
  2. #164 — How Coach Went From $6M to $5B Without Losing Its Soul

    APR 7

    #164 — How Coach Went From $6M to $5B Without Losing Its Soul

    New on Outthinkers Podcast, supported by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff speaks with Lew Frankfort about how Coach scaled while building trust, durability, and emotional connection with customers.   During the conversation they unpack what scaling really requires when growth threatens to dilute what made you successful in the first place.   Lew Frankfort reflects on spotting Coach’s early cult following, why direct-to-customer channels became a strategic turning point, and how brands build trust, durability, and emotional connection at the same time while leaders balance creativity with operational discipline.   The conversation covers: Why strategy is the bridge between vision and execution, and what it looks like in practice while scaling How to build brand equity through trust, durability, and emotional connection without losing what makes the brand distinctive How leaders balance creativity and discipline, and what it takes to be an intrapreneur inside a larger organization Episode Timeline: 00:00 Welcome and Sponsor 00:44 Meet Lou Frankfort 03:31 Family and Values 06:05 Defining Strategy 06:56 From Public Service 09:19 Coach Cult Following 12:34 Brand Equity Triangle 16:20 Going Direct to Consumer 19:10 Magic and Logic Leadership 21:48 Becoming CEO at Coach 26:17 Intrapreneur Mindset 28:36 Designing for Growth 32:25 Advice and Closing Additional Resources: Book: Bag Man (Lew Frankfort) LHH: https://www.lhh.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lew-frankfort/ Thank you again to our sponsor, LHH. Thank you to our guest, Lew Frankfort.  Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    37 min
  3. #163 — Joseph Pine: Why Customers Don’t Care About What You Sell

    MAR 17

    #163 — Joseph Pine: Why Customers Don’t Care About What You Sell

    Joe Pine is the co-author of The Experience Economy—and one of the thinkers who gave leaders a language for why “services” weren’t the end of the story. In this episode, Joe returns with his next major thesis: we’ve entered the Transformation Economy, where the customer is no longer buying inputs (features, service hours, or even memorable moments), but paying for outcomes—lasting change. We unpack what makes a transformation fundamentally different from an experience, why experiences are increasingly commoditized, and why the biggest opportunities now sit in helping people (and organizations) become who they want to become. Joe also shares the practical implications: how leaders can ladder up from “jobs to be done” into deeper aspirations, why identity change sits at the center of transformation, and how pricing shifts when your business is accountable for outcomes. In this episode we cover: •Why transformations are “sustained through time,” not just memorable moments •The idea that all transformation is identity change (and what that means for strategy) •“You are what you charge for”: shifting from time-based pricing to outcome-based pricing •Why the Transformation Economy is already here (and why it’s accelerating now) •The four spheres of transformation—and why they all point toward human flourishing 00:00 — Welcome + Episode Setup  01:36 — “If you really know me…” (Anti-social introvert) 03:10 — Strategy = the decisions you actually make 04:18 — Defining “Transformation” (guiding outcomes that last) 06:06 — Experience vs Transformation (customer becomes the product) 08:28 — Why the Transformation Economy is already here 10:00 — Why now: experiences are commoditizing (Starbucks + COVID shift) 13:16 — Identity change at the center of transformation 17:46 — From “cobbling” to integrated transformation programs (GLP-1 / Calibrate) 21:54 — Pricing in the Transformation Economy (outcomes + human flourishing) 34:22 — Where to start + resources (encapsulation, purpose, Substack/toolkit) Additional Resources: Joe Pine’s Transformation Economy Substack: https://transformationsbook.substack.com/ Strategic Horizons: https://strategichorizons.com/ Strategic Horizons “Integration” page + Transformation Toolkit: https://strategichorizons.com/integration Joe Pine on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/ Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    37 min
  4. #162 — Linda Hill & Jason Wild: The Leadership Model Behind Innovation That Scales

    MAR 3

    #162 — Linda Hill & Jason Wild: The Leadership Model Behind Innovation That Scales

    In a recent Outthinkers episode sponsored by LHH, host Kaihan Krippendorff is joined by Linda Hill (Havard Business School) and Jason Wild (WISE) to discuss what it takes to move innovation beyond isolated efforts and into something that can work across an entire organization   They explore how strategy is shifting, from control to adaptability, what's actually driving advantage in 2026, and why progress depends on more than just advancing technology.   The conversation covers: •⁠  ⁠Why ecosystems, not individual teams, are becoming the unit of innovation •⁠  ⁠The role leaders play as architects, bridgers, and catalysts—and what breaks when those roles are missing •⁠  ⁠Why culture is often the difference between ideas that scale and those that don't Episode timeline: 00:00 — Cold open: why no company can go it alone 00:30 — Sponsor: LHH 02:00 — “If you really know me…” (Linda + Jason) 03:35 — Definitions of strategy (optionality, choices, and adaptability) 08:40 — Why they wrote Genius at Scale 12:30 — Why ecosystems are rising (speed, capability gaps, AI) 17:00 — Can incumbents adopt an ecosystem approach? 22:30 — ABC framework: Architect, Bridger, Catalyst 28:40 — The most underappreciated role: the Bridger 33:30 — Why bridging is a career risk (and how to fix incentives) 41:45 — A practical tool: a “constraints dashboard” + radical transparency 45:30 — Where leaders should start 54:50 — How to keep learning from Linda + Jason 59:20 — Closing + thanks Additional Resources: Linda Hill: https://www.linkedin.com/in/linda-hill-hbs/ Jason Wild: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonwild/ Book: Genius at Scale — https://geniusatscale.com/ Sponsor: LHH Executive Solutions — https://www.lhh.com Thank you to our sponsor, LHH Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    59 min
  5. #161 — Neil Hoyne: What Data Can’t Tell You About Strategy

    FEB 24

    #161 — Neil Hoyne: What Data Can’t Tell You About Strategy

    Neil Hoyne is Chief Strategist at Google and one of the sharpest voices on how companies actually make decisions when data, intuition, and organizational politics collide. He works at the intersection of strategy, analytics, and customer value, helping leaders think more clearly about what metrics mean, how to use them, and where they can quietly mislead. He is also the author of Converted and is currently working on a new book exploring how strategy frameworks can be applied to careers and life decisions. Most leaders say they want to be data-driven. But in practice, many organizations still use data to confirm what they already believe, delay hard choices, or create the appearance of rigor without real clarity. At the same time, teams are drowning in more information than ever, while AI is making data gathering and analysis faster, cheaper, and easier to commoditize. The harder challenge now is not collecting data — it’s creating the conditions for better decisions. In this episode, we explore how strategy should be defined in an uncertain world, why customer-centric thinking changes the role of marketing, and how leaders can avoid mistaking metrics for truth. Neil also unpacks customer lifetime value (CLV), the hidden ways metrics get manipulated, and why many companies ask the wrong question when they say they want more data. We also discuss what strategists should focus on as AI changes the work, and why the future advantage may come from decision frameworks, not dashboards. In this episode we cover: •Neil’s practical definition of strategy: using resources to stay alive today while improving your position for tomorrow •Two definitions of marketing — product-centric vs customer-centric — and how the marketer’s role changes in each •What CLV actually is, why it matters, and how short time horizons distort strategic choices •Why common metrics (like conversions and engagement) often aren’t comparable across platforms •The two questions leaders should ask about every KPI: how it’s calculated and how it could be manipulated •Why smart leaders still ignore data, and how human psychology shapes decision-making •How to define “how much data is enough” before a decision •What chief strategy officers can do beyond the annual planning ritual •Why AI strategy should start with your company’s core strategy — not the other way around Chapters: 00:01 — Intro + Neil Hoyne 03:10 — The “Last Supper” question 08:10 — Misreading people’s career stories 10:10 — Strategy definition 16:40 — What marketing is 21:05 — Customer-centric thinking 24:10 — CLV basics 30:10 — Why metrics mislead 35:10 — How teams game KPIs 39:20 — Why leaders ignore data 52:00 — How much data is enough? 1:01:20 — Risk, speed, and decisions 1:07:20 — What strategy leaders should do 1:18:10 — New book on careers 1:25:10 — AI noise vs core strategy 1:30:20 — Closing Additional Resources: •Neil Hoyne on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/neilhoyne/ •Neil Hoyne website: https://neilhoyne.com/ •Converted (Neil Hoyne’s book): https://www.converted.us/ •Intro (booking 1:1 time; proceeds to charity): https://intro.co/ (search Neil Hoyne on Intro) Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    42 min
  6. #160 —John Fallon: Leading Through a Decade-Long Disruption

    FEB 17

    #160 —John Fallon: Leading Through a Decade-Long Disruption

    John Fallon is the former CEO of Pearson, where he led one of the most challenging digital transformations of any publicly traded company—shifting a legacy publishing giant from selling ~20 million US college textbooks per year to a subscription-driven, digital platform business. This episode was recorded live at LHH’s Executive Exchange Conference in London, and John joins us to share hard-won leadership lessons from the front lines of disruption. For years we’ve been told only nimble startups survive disruption. But that story misses a quieter truth: most of the Fortune 500 was founded long before the internet—and many incumbents have adapted through multiple platform shifts. In his new book, Resurgent, John (with Julian Birkinshaw of London Business School) makes a contrarian case: established organizations can fight back—and even thrive—if they get clear on their enduring value, redesign for transformation, and lead change like the human “contact sport” it is. In this conversation, John breaks down why disruption often unfolds over decades (not months), how to separate a temporary headwind from a structural shift, and why identifying your company’s true “job to be done” matters more than clinging to any one product. He also shares practical leadership tools for navigating politics, building alignment, empowering middle managers, and sustaining people through prolonged upheaval. What you’ll learn in this episode •Why incumbents are often more resilient than we assume—and what the data says •How to spot the difference between “secular vs structural” change (and why timing is so hard) •The “job to be done” lens: how Pearson moved from textbooks to learning outcomes •Why digital transformation is less about tech and more about people, culture, and organizational design •How to reduce “the meeting after the meeting” and create real disagree-and-commit execution Episode Timeline 00:00 Welcome to Outthinkers + Live Special Episode Setup 01:22 Why Incumbents Can Win: Pearson’s Transformation & the Book ‘Resurgent’ 05:30 Elephants Can Dance: Fortune 500 Resilience and the Myth of Instant Disruption 09:10 Pearson’s Textbook Collapse: Secular vs Structural (and Recency Bias) 11:33 From Textbooks to ‘Job to Be Done’: Purpose, Pricing, and the Access Model 13:45 Crisis Clarifies Identity: Cancer, Core Value, and Avoiding ‘Netflix of X’ Thinking 16:56 Making Purpose Real in Transformation: Profit, Restructuring, and Middle Managers as Shock Absorbers 21:23 Why Digital Transformation Gets Political: Twin-Speed Orgs, Uncertain Disruption, and Staying ‘Busy Being Born’ 24:42 Why AI Transformation Is a Human Problem (Linear vs Exponential Change) 26:05 CEO Time: Thinking Space, Contrarian Views & “Disagree and Commit” 28:14 Avoiding the “Meeting After the Meeting”: How to Build Real Alignment 30:17 Audience Q: Leading with Humility—Saying “I Don’t Know” & Showing Humanity 34:08 Should You Take the CEO Job? Confidence, Humility, and Resilience Reserves 36:49 Beyond the Burning Platform: Replatforming, Timing, and Centralize vs Decentralize 41:18 CEO Sounding Boards: CFO/CHRO Partnerships, Board Support, and Staying Grounded 43:35 Culture vs Strategy: The “False Dichotomy” and Building a Learning Organization 45:47 Wrap-Up, Thanks, and Subscribe Additional Resources •Resurgent (book): https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/resurgent-9781399422000/ John Fallon on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/johnfallonpearson Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    47 min
  7. #159 — Dr. Brent Ridge: The Kindness Operating System for Hiring, Culture, and Growth

    FEB 3

    #159 — Dr. Brent Ridge: The Kindness Operating System for Hiring, Culture, and Growth

    Dr. Brent Ridge is the co-founder of Beekman 1802, a skin health brand that began with goat milk soap made at a dining room table and scaled into a nationally recognized business with a devoted community. Brent trained in medicine (geriatrics), built his career in New York City, and even helped launch Martha Stewart’s Healthy Living division—before a recession, a rundown farm, and a herd of goats rewrote his path. He’s also the co-author of G.O.A.T. Wisdom, a new book that distills Beekman’s hard-won lessons into practical principles for entrepreneurs who want to build something that lasts. In this conversation, you’ll learn how to spot real trends before they’re named, build a brand identity customers can feel in seconds, and turn a purpose like kindness into a measurable operating system—not just marketing. In this episode we cover: Why “the true measure of authenticity is longevity” (and how brands lose trust chasing viral moments)The Beekman origin story: layoffs, a farm, goats—and turning constraints into a strategy advantageA simple but powerful strategic question: “Where does this not exist?” (and how it opened the luxury door)Trend sensing without getting trapped by algorithms: building your own daily “signal system”How defining your company as “skin health” (not “beauty”) changes everything—from product to positioningTurning kindness into culture, community, and commercial momentum (inside the company and out) 00:00 Introduction to Out Thinkers Podcast 00:30 Defining Authenticity in Business 01:23 Meet Dr. Brent Ridge: From Medicine to Entrepreneurship 02:01 The Birth of Beekman 1802 02:36 Building a Brand with Kindness 04:56 Early Life and Career of Dr. Brent Ridge 07:02 Strategic Moves: From Medicine to Martha Stewart 08:26 Launching the Martha Stewart Center for Living 18:08 The Power of Personal Branding and Sales 21:22 Navigating Trends and Building Legacy 25:01 Seeing Trends in Unlikely Places 26:30 The Birth of Beekman 1802 28:26 The Science Behind Goat Milk 30:32 Rebranding as a Skin Health Company 31:35 The Power of Brand Identity 37:57 Building a Culture of Kindness 40:43 The Kindness Ecosystem 48:22 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Additional Resources Book: G.O.A.T. Wisdom (Brent Ridge)Beekman 1802: https://beekman1802.com/Brent Ridge on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-ridge-md-0641791/Kindness Research Foundation: https://www.kindness.orgThank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    50 min
  8. #158 — Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun: How to Build an Organization That Learns and Adapts Fast

    JAN 20

    #158 — Jana Werner & Phil Le-Brun: How to Build an Organization That Learns and Adapts Fast

    Jana Werner is a global executive advisor and Executive in Residence at Amazon Web Services, where she works with Fortune 500 leadership teams on organizational transformation and enterprise strategy. She holds a PhD in uncertainty dynamics in projects and has contributed to academic research and teaching at institutions including Oxford and the London School of Economics. Phil Le-Brun spent 31 years at McDonald’s, serving as International CIO and leading technology delivery across more than 120 countries. He is now an Executive in Residence at AWS, serving as an enterprise strategist and evangelist, with advanced degrees in systems thinking. Together, they are the authors of The Octopus Organization: A Guide to Thriving in a World of Continuous Transformation. Most large companies still operate like machines. Rigid hierarchies, tight controls, and permission-based decision making may deliver predictability, but they quietly kill ownership, learning, and innovation. By contrast, the most adaptive organizations operate more like living systems, distributing intelligence, empowering teams, and enabling continuous transformation. Companies like Amazon demonstrate how decentralization, clarity, and ownership can create alignment rather than chaos. This episode explores how leaders can replace command-and-control structures with environments where innovation becomes everyone’s job. In this episode we cover Why the “organization as a machine” model is breaking downThe Octopus Organization metaphor and distributed intelligence in actionHow clarity and context enable decentralized decision-makingOwnership vs permission and the pigs-and-chickens lessonWhy real innovation must be embedded across every layer of the organizationHow curiosity and intelligent failure drive continuous transformation Episode Timeline 00:00 Highlight and introduction to the Octopus Organization 02:00 Guest introductions and background 04:30 If you really know me… personal stories from Jana and Phil 07:40 Defining strategy as choice and what not to do 10:00 Tin Man vs Octopus organizations 13:30 How decentralization increases alignment 16:00 Ownership, permission, and single-threaded leadership 20:00 Amazon leadership principles and disagree-and-commit 22:30 Creating organizational clarity at scale 26:00 Focus, subtraction, and the mountaineering story 28:30 Durable needs and strategy at Amazon 30:30 Complicated vs complex systems in transformation 33:00 Curiosity, experimentation, and intelligent failure 36:00 The monkey-on-a-pedestal lesson 38:00 Centralized vs decentralized innovation 41:00 Lighting a thousand fires and continuous transformation 44:00 Why this model outperforms traditional change programs 45:30 Where to learn more and connect with the authors Additional Resources Book: The Octopus Organization Website: https://www.theoctopusorganization.com Jana Werner LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/janawerner1/ Phil LeBrun LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phillebrun/ Watch now on Youtube: https://youtu.be/qcD2GmX5uUI Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast

    46 min
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About

The Outthinkers podcast is a growth strategy podcast hosted by Kaihan Krippendorff. Each week, Kaihan talks with forward-looking strategists and innovators that are challenging the status quo, leading the future of business, and shaping our world.Chief strategy officers and executives can learn more and join the Outthinker community at https://outthinkernetwork.com/. 

Information

  • Creator
    Outthinker
  • Years Active
    2021 - 2026
  • Episodes
    169
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Outthinker
  • Show Website
    Outthinkers

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