She Sells He Sells

Krista and Brian Demcher
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Most people think selling is something you do at work, but Krista and Brian Demcher have spent nearly three decades proving otherwise - in corporate sales rooms, entrepreneurial ventures, and over 25 years of marriage and raising a family, which is honestly where the real persuasion happens. Every week on this sales and communication podcast, they bring one bold idea worth buying and walk you through the story behind it, the case for it, and the pushback against it - so by the end, you don't just know where you stand, you understand exactly how you got there. Think of it as a persuasion and storytelling masterclass disguised as a really good conversation. Because a good idea is only as good as your ability to sell it! Sales skills are life skills...and this show is where you learn them. New episodes every Monday.

  1. 6D AGO

    204. Love Won't Save Your Marriage (25 Years In)

    Love won't save your marriage. That is the idea Krista Demcher is selling in this very special episode of She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying — recorded in honor of her and Brian's 25th wedding anniversary. Not exactly the romantic pitch Brian was expecting. And yet, by the end of the episode, he's buying it. Krista's argument is simple and a little uncomfortable: two people can love each other deeply and still slowly grow apart, make a thousand small decisions that create a rift, and wake up one day in a miserable marriage. Love is not the thing that saves a marriage. Growing together in the same direction is. And that takes real work. To make the case, Krista tells a story she's never fully told on the show before: the fight. About seven or eight years ago, Brian was at a conference in Boston and Krista found out he was having quiet conversations about promotions that could have relocated the whole family — conversations she was not part of. It became the biggest argument of their marriage, a couples therapy ultimatum, and the exact moment Brian said the words that lit Krista up: "I love you and you love me — that's enough." She did not agree. She still doesn't. And she explains why. From there, the two of them walk through what has actually held their marriage together for 25 years: the Michelangelo Phenomenon (choosing a partner who sees the David in you), aligning on the direction you're growing, carving out real time together (forget date nights — try walks), using nostalgia on purpose, and building a team-of-two mentality that can withstand whatever life throws at it. They also talk honestly about the illusion of continuity — the lie we tell ourselves that we'll be the same person in 20 years — and why the version of your spouse you married is not the version you'll grow old with. That is a feature, not a bug. If you are newly married, long married, thinking about marriage, or quietly working on a marriage that has gone a little flat — this one is for you. It is part love letter, part pep talk, and part "okay fine, you're right" from Brian. IN THIS EPISODE [0:00] Welcome back — the 25th wedding anniversary episode [2:32] The Sell: love won't save your marriage [4:04] Married at 22: what we didn't know we didn't know [6:54] The Story: the Boston conference, the quiet relocation conversation, and the fight that followed [10:25] "I love you and you love me and that's enough" — the sentence that set Krista off [12:09] The couples therapy ultimatum and why love alone isn't enough [14:00] The Solution: grow together in the same direction (not in separate ones) [16:12] "You've changed" is the point, not the problem [19:06] The Michelangelo Phenomenon: choose someone who sees the David in you [25:25] Brian on the learning curve of having feelings (his words) [27:01] Forget date nights — the walk is the marriage tool that actually works [31:28] Nostalgia on purpose: telling your own love story back to each other [34:09] The team mentality — why moving away from family made our marriage [36:09] The Stakes: a miserable marriage is the real downside, not divorce [39:04] The illusion of continuity — you won't be the same person at 70 [42:24] The close: happy 25th — do you buy it? KEY QUOTE "Two people can love each other deeply — but you can make a thousand micro-decisions that push you farther and farther apart. Love isn't what saves a marriage. Growing together is." — Krista Demcher MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE The Michelangelo Phenomenon (and Michelangelo's David in Florence) The illusion of continuity — see our earlier episode on this concept Our Hot Springs, Arkansas fall foliage trip Libby, the OG family dog — and the daily walk habit that started with her Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    47 min

  2. APR 20

    203. Phones Don't Belong In Kids' Bedrooms

    The no-phones-in-the-bedroom rule is one of the most searched parenting topics right now — and one of the hardest to actually enforce. In this episode, Brian and Krista Demcher share the phone rule that changed their family, how they made it stick across three kids and nearly a decade, and why they believe it's the single most important boundary parents can set in the smartphone era. In Episode 204 of She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying, Brian makes the case that phones don't belong in kids' bedrooms — not at night, not during the day, not ever. It's not a technology argument. It's a family argument. Krista is buying it, and together they walk through the no-phone bedroom rule that kept their family from quietly fragmenting, what the research shows about teenagers and smartphones, and the moment that proved it was actually working. The data on kids and phones in the bedroom is hard to argue with. 72% of teenagers today sleep with their phones in their bedroom. Researchers connect that directly to higher rates of anxiety and depression in teenagers, disrupted sleep, and a measurable decline in the sense of connection teens feel — not just with friends, but with their own families. And beyond the research, there's a practical reality: parents have no visibility into what's happening behind a closed bedroom door. The kitchen table is a supervised space by default. The bedroom is not. Their solution was simple and non-negotiable: no phones in the bedroom. Every phone charges on the kitchen counter overnight, every night. But they were careful not to just take something away — they replaced it with something worth staying for. A sectional couch that the whole family loves. TV shows they actually all want to watch together. A family room that pulls everyone in rather than pushing them to their corners. The phone rule for kids works, they argue, when the alternative is genuinely better than the bedroom. They answer the three objections every parent raises: what about my kid's privacy, what if my kid is responsible, and doesn't restricting phones just make them a forbidden fruit? They're honest about the times the rule got bent, the moments they looked the other way, and what they'd do differently if they were starting over with younger kids today. The proof came in quietly. Their oldest daughter came home from college and followed the rule without a fight. A TikTok trend asked whether families were "bedroom families" or "living room families" — and their kids answered immediately, proudly, without ever connecting the label back to the phone rule.  And one of their daughter's friends told her, completely unprompted, that her dream was to grow up and have a family just like theirs.  If you're a parent trying to set phone limits for kids, wondering whether a no-phone bedroom rule is worth the fight, or just trying to keep your family from disappearing into their screens — this one is for you. IN THIS EPISODE [2:00] Intro: We preview the sales message and walk through the 5 S's [3:00] The sell: no phones in kids' bedrooms — not at night, not during the day, not ever [4:00] The story: giving Ava a smartphone at twelve and watching the family start to fragment [8:00] The control spiral: checking search history, reading texts, and parenting your oldest kid without a roadmap [10:00] The secret viral account: a Lay's potato chip parody TikTok page nobody knew about until it already had a following [11:00] The solution: the no-phone bedroom rule — what it looks like in practice, and where the exceptions live [18:00] The couch principle: if you're setting phone limits for kids, give them somewhere worth staying instead [22:00] How to find a show the whole family will actually watch together — and why that matters more than you think [25:00] The stakes: 72% of teenagers sleep with their phones in their bedroom — and what the research says about anxiety, depression, and screen time [27:00] Three objections answered: privacy, responsibility, and the forbidden fruit argument [35:00] The success: Ava comes home from college, the living room family TikTok moment, and the compliment from Emme's friend that said everything [38:00] Do you buy it? MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Arhaus, the Kipton sectional — a.k.a. "Kip" Ryan Trahan's 50 States in 50 Days — available on Amazon Prime The "living room family vs. bedroom family" TikTok trend Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    41 min

  3. APR 13

    202. Your 5 Year Plan Is Holding You Back

    Your five-year plan might be the thing standing between you and the life you actually want. In Episode 202 of She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying, Krista makes the case that rigid goal setting — including the SMART goals framework, the career roadmap, the color-coded five-year plan — creates a kind of tunnel vision that costs you the best opportunities of your life. It's not an argument against ambition. It's an argument against the blinders. Krista starts in 2003, sitting in a classroom in Norman, Oklahoma, newly married, newly enrolled in a counseling program, and already quietly aware that maybe this wasn't quite right. She mapped out the plan anyway — full-time counseling career, school setting, rise through the ranks — because that's what you do when you've invested the time and the money. Then a part-time motivational speaking job came along that was absolutely not in the plan. She took it. And that one detour cracked open the version of her life that exists today. From there, the episode gets into the research. Locke and Latham — the two psychologists who literally invented goal-setting theory — found in their own work that rigid, specific goals create tunnel vision. Studies show only 10% of people actually achieve their ambitious goals. And the NASA Mars Ingenuity drone, originally tasked with five test flights in 30 days, ended up completing 72 missions over three years. If someone had stopped it at the goal line, they would have missed 93% of what it was capable of. Brian isn't letting this one go easy. He comes in with the map objection, the measuring stick objection, and a standing argument that salespeople cannot operate without a quota. Krista has answers. The destination matters...the single route doesn't. The solution isn't to stop planning. It's to take the blinders off — to know what you want your life to feel like, what you want to be known for, what actually energizes you — and then stay open to the lanes that pull up alongside you while you're moving. "Your five-year plan isn't a roadmap. It might be a trap." IN THIS EPISODE [4:00] Intro: Krista previews her case and sets up the episode [5:00] The sell: your five-year plan is holding you back — and it almost kept Krista from all of this [7:00] The story: Norman, Oklahoma, 2003. A counseling degree, a five-year plan, and a part-time speaking job that changed everything [13:00] What it felt like to break the plan — the guilt, the excitement, and why Krista wrestled with both for years [15:00] Brian's career path: economics, military, med device, biotech, and back to mission-driven work — what the thread actually is [19:00] The solution: vision over plan, lanes over blinders, and three questions worth asking yourself [23:00] The Stanford Odyssey Plan and why episode 199 connects directly to this one [25:00] The research: Locke and Latham on tunnel vision, the 10% stat, and what the NASA Mars drone accomplished when nobody stopped it at five [31:00] Brian's objections: I need a map. I need a measuring stick. What do I do instead? [34:00] Micro goals, the becoming board, and why the doing is the gift KEY QUOTE "Your five-year plan isn't a roadmap. It might be a trap." MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE SMART Goals framework — Locke and Latham goal-setting theory Stanford Odyssey Plan — designing three versions of your life (She Sells He Sells Episode 199) NASA Ingenuity Mars drone — 5 missions planned, 72 completed The becoming board — an alternative to the vision board ____ Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    37 min

  4. APR 6

    201. Fake It Til You Make It Is Amazing Advice

    Fake it till you make it is amazing advice. Krista Demcher is here to make that case — and she's bringing Nike, Taylor Swift, and brain science to the table. In Episode 201 of She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying, Krista flips the script on Brian's argument from last episode and pitches fake it till you make it as one of the most powerful permission slips in the personal development toolbox. It's not a fraud strategy. It's not a character flaw. It's a six-word reminder that ready is a decision, not a feeling. Krista starts where she knows best: the origin story of this podcast. Back in 2018, she and Brian were doing Facebook Lives about sales and storytelling. People kept telling them they should start a podcast. And they kept saying no — because they didn't know how. They weren't ready, so they faked it. They told people they were starting a podcast before they knew what that meant, sat down in front of two mics on a table in a room they called Studio D, and figured it out as they went. Episode 201 is proof it worked. From there, Krista makes the connection to Nike. The slogan "Just Do It" — responsible for driving Nike from $877 million to $9.2 billion in revenue over a decade — was written the night before the pitch meeting by Dan Wieden of Wieden+Kennedy. He walked into that room faking his confidence. Fake it till you make it and Just Do It, Krista argues, are in the same category. She also brings in Taylor Swift's anthem "I Can Do It With a Broken Heart" from The Tortured Poets Department — a song that uses the phrase verbatim and has become an anthem for millions. The science backs her up too. Self-talk builds neural pathways. When you tell yourself you're capable before you feel capable, your brain starts building the circuitry to match. Krista walks through what goes through her head before she steps on stage to give a keynote — because faking confidence isn't dishonest, it's how you act your way into a new way of feeling. The stakes are real. Bronnie Ware, a palliative care nurse who wrote The Top Five Regrets of the Dying, found that the number one regret of people at the end of their lives was not having the courage to go after what they really wanted. A Cornell University study found that 76% of people's biggest regret is not fulfilling their ideal self. For Krista, fake it till you make it is the antidote to ending up in that 76%. Brian isn't convinced without a fight. He comes in with four pointed questions about ambiguity, a reference to Switch by Chip and Dan Heath, and a standing objection from last week. Krista has answers for all of them. This is the She Sells episode in the rebrand of She Sells He Sells — and Krista makes her case with the same confidence she's been faking since 2018. IN THIS EPISODE [0:00]  Intro: Krista previews her case, explains the 5 S's, and gives you the roadmap for today's episode — including the part she wants you to sit with [3:10]  Krista's sell: fake it till you make it is amazing advice — and it is just not that deep [4:00]  The setup: it's a six-word permission slip, not a fraud strategy — and anyone who disagrees is yucking the yum [5:18]  The Story: back to 2018. How Krista and Brian went from Facebook Live to 200+ episodes as podcast hosts — scared, unprepared, and faking it from day one [9:00]  What Studio D looked like at the beginning, why they told people they were starting a podcast before they knew how, and what happened when they showed up anyway [10:53]  The Nike connection: the real origin story of "Just Do It" — and why Dan Wieden walking into that pitch meeting sounds a lot like fake it till you make it [13:03]  Taylor Swift's anthem: why I Can Do It With a Broken Heart is fake it till you make it in three minutes and forty seconds — and what that song is actually about [16:22]  Brian plants a seed: Switch by Chip and Dan Heath, the food pyramid, and why vague advice doesn't drive change (or does it?) [17:01]  Brain science: self-talk builds neural pathways. What you tell yourself before you walk into the room changes what happens in the room. [17:21]  The keynote example: what actually goes through Krista's head before stepping on stage — and why faking confidence isn't just okay, it's sometimes the whole point [19:40]  The Stakes: the Top 5 Regrets of the Dying (Bronnie Ware) and the Cornell study that found 76% of people's biggest regret is not fulfilling their ideal self [22:00]  Brian's four-question challenge: is fake it till you make it too ambiguous to be effective advice? [26:00]  Krista's close: context matters, ready is a decision not a feeling, and nobody is going to prison [27:27]  Faking it in marriage, parenting, and every other role that comes with no instruction manual [32:19]  The vote: do you buy it? KEY QUOTE "Ready is a decision, not a feeling." MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Switch by Chip and Dan Heath Nike's "Just Do It" — origin story of the slogan (Dan Wieden, Wieden+Kennedy) Taylor Swift, I Can Do It With a Broken Heart (The Tortured Poets Department) The Top Five Regrets of the Dying by Bronnie Ware Cornell University study: 76% of people's biggest regret is not fulfilling their ideal self "Ready is a decision, not a feeling" — Krista Demcher   MISSED LAST EPISODE? Brian made the case against fake it till you make it in Episode 200. You need both sides to vote. ____ Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    33 min

  5. APR 6

    200. Fake It Til You Make It Is Terrible Advice

    Fake it till you make it is terrible advice. That's the argument Brian Demcher is making in this episode of She Sells He Sells — and he's got a billion-dollar case study to back it up. In the relaunch episode of She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying, Brian makes a bold pitch: the phrase "fake it till you make it" isn't just overrated career advice — it's a mindset that quietly chips away at your integrity, your reputation, and your results. And Krista Demcher? She's not buying it. At least not at first. Brian traces the idea back to one of the most infamous business collapses in recent history: Theranos. Founded in 2003 by Elizabeth Holmes, the company raised $1.3 billion across 11 funding rounds on a premise her own professor told her was scientifically impossible. Holmes modeled her appearance, her voice, even her wardrobe after Steve Jobs — performing the part of a visionary while knowingly building on a lie. She ended up in federal prison. Is that the extreme end? Sure. But Brian argues that fake it till you make it sets a dangerous precedent for how we think about confidence, career growth, and personal integrity — especially for people just starting out who are already battling self-doubt and imposter syndrome. The alternative? Lean into your why, not your lie. That means building real confidence through hard work, purpose, and authenticity — not performing a version of yourself you haven't earned yet. Brian walks through why integrity, honesty, and a clear sense of purpose are the actual foundations of a sustainable career, and why Franklin Covey's four pillars of credibility (integrity, purpose, capabilities, results) don't leave any room for the word "fake." Krista brings the debate. She makes the case that not everything fake is bad — lab-grown diamonds, anyone? — and pushes back on whether Brian is taking a simple mantra way too seriously. Their conversation covers reputation management in the modern career landscape, the unrealistic timelines fake it till you make it sets for people, and what it actually looks like when someone builds a career on honesty and work ethic instead of performance. By the end, both hosts agree on more than they expect. But the verdict on the phrase itself? That's up to you.  This is Episode 200 of She Sells He Sells — the first episode of the rebrand — and it kicks off with the debate that's been living in the Demcher household for years. Tune in next week for Episode 201, where Krista argues the other side. IN THIS EPISODE [0:00]  Intro: Krista explains the 5 S's framework and previews what Brian is selling today — and where to listen for the good stuff [2:10]  Welcome back to the rebrand — Brian states his sell and Krista tells him immediately she's not buying it [3:37]  The Story begins: a startup founded in Palo Alto in 2003 raises $1.3 billion across 11 funding rounds and 300+ investors. Then it all falls apart. The Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes story. [8:22]  Krista pushes back: is this actually fake it till you make it, or is it fraud — and does it matter? [9:57]  The Solution: integrity, honesty, purpose, and passion — and the phrase Brian came up with: "Lean into your why, not your lie." [12:24]  The debate gets interesting: Krista makes the case that fake isn't always bad. Lab-grown diamonds, a #1 Dad trophy, and a hypothetical fake Rolex walk into the argument. [16:51]  The Stakes: your reputation is everything in the modern professional world — and fake it till you make it chips away at the one thing you can't buy back [21:17]  What success actually looks like: a strong sense of self, less pressure, and a reminder from the smartest person Brian knows — "real beats perfect every single time" [25:43]  The close: do you buy it? Cast your vote. KEY QUOTE "Lean into your why, not your lie." MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE Theranos and Elizabeth Holmes Franklin Covey's Four Pillars of Credibility: integrity, purpose, capabilities, results "Real beats perfect every single time" — Krista Demcher DON'T MISS EPISODE 201 Krista flips it. Same topic, completely different verdict. You'll want both sides before you vote. ____ Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    30 min

  6. MAR 30

    She Sells He Sells is Back: The Ideas Worth Buying Trailer

    After 199 episodes, we took a break. We asked hard questions about what this show was really supposed to be. And we came back with an answer: She Sells He Sells: Ideas Worth Buying is back on April 6th, and it's a whole new show! Every episode, we bring you one bold, defensible idea wrapped in sales, communication, and persuasion skills - the ones that actually move people. It might be something you've never considered before, or something you've always believed but never heard argued this well. We're talking goal setting keeping you stuck, kids under 16 and social media, whether Daniel LaRusso was actually the villain in Karate Kid, and more! Bold ideas, real conversation, and a persuasion framework that's going to rewire how you communicate - in your business, your relationships, your life. Because sales skills are life skills, and we're ready to prove it. Subscribe now, drop a review if you're excited, and we'll see you April 6th! ____ Connect with us: 📸 Instagram: @SheSellsHeSellsPodcast ▶️ YouTube: She Sells He Sells Podcast

    6 min

  7. 12/15/2025

    199. The Stanford Plan That Will Help You Design Your Next 5 Years

    Welcome to episode 199 and a big announcement! After nearly four years of never missing a Monday since launching in April 2022, we're taking a brief hiatus. But before we go, we're pulling back the curtain on everything: why we failed our big 2025 goal to double our podcast downloads, what we're learning about the difference between goal setting and feeling setting, and how the Odyssey Plan from Stanford's Design Lab is reshaping the next chapter of She Sells He Sells (and our lives). If you've ever wondered whether it's time to stay the course, take a calculated risk, or blow it all up and start fresh—this episode is your roadmap. Plus, Brian announces a major career change after 20 years in health tech, and we get real about midlife pivots, entrepreneurship journey, and what it means to experience failure without being a failure. Listen in to hear: Why Brian's back after his "forced vacation" from the Acorn HR team The profound message guiding our 2026 pivot: "All of us contain more liveliness than one lifetime permits" Why we failed our goal to double podcast downloads in 2025 and what we learned The Michael Phelps principle: Why people who achieve great things aren't necessarily better than you Our big announcement: Taking our first Monday break since launching and what's changing The Odyssey Plan from Stanford Design Lab explained: 3 scenarios for designing your next 5 years Scenario 1 (Status Quo), Scenario 2 (Calculated Risk), and Scenario 3 (Magic Wand)—and how to know which is right for you Brian's major career announcement leaving health tech after 20 years Why this is called "Odyssey Planning" not "Finish Line Planning" The danger of hyper-focused goal setting and why it makes you miss incredible opportunities Dave Evans' simple formula: Get curious. Talk to people. Try stuff. Tell your story. PRO TIP after listening: Try the Odyssey Plan exercise this week. Map out your three scenarios for the next 5 years, rate them on excitement level (feelings, not logistics!), and identify one small step toward the scenario that feels most alive. We're coming back in Q1 2026 with Episode 200, a fresh format, and bigger ideas. Want to help shape what's next? DM us @shesellshesellspodcast and tell us what you want more (or less) of! Take the "What's Your Sales Style Quiz?": https://www.kristademcher.com/sales-style-quiz Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQNMxt1N_x6vO_dnizVu2g Follow SHE SELLS HE SELLS on IG: https://www.instagram.com/shesellshesellspodcast

    48 min

  8. 12/08/2025

    198. How To Use Content Creation To Pivot Your Business - Without Starting Over

    Feeling stuck in your online business or wondering how to pivot your business strategy? In this solo episode, Krista shares her business pivot story and how content creation became the path to brand partnerships, speaking opportunities, and diversified revenue streams - all without going viral or building a massive following. This isn't a typical content creator success story. Krista's Instagram grew by only 1,100 followers and her TikTok still has under 1,000 followers. But she landed brand partnerships with KiwiCo, Nuuly, Function Health, PrepScholar, and more. She shares the Michell C. Clark quote that changed her entire approach: "You don't need another rebrand in 2026 - you need a reunion with the version of yourself who knew what brought you joy before the world taught you to monetize it." Listen in for: - How to pivot from group coaching and memberships to consulting while building a personal brand through content - Why she stopped asking "is this scalable?" and started asking "do I enjoy this?" - a mindset shift for entrepreneurs T- he real numbers: modest social media growth that led to major brand partnerships and business opportunities - 5 actionable content creation tips for your own business pivot and personal brand building Why women entrepreneurs over 40 have a unique advantage as content creators and influencers - Content strategy tips: how to let content stand alone instead of always selling your offers Whether you're a coach, consultant, or online business owner feeling misaligned with your current business model, this episode gives you permission to pivot and practical content creation strategies to build your personal brand authentically - no viral moments required. What's Your Sales Style? Find out here! https://www.kristademcher.com/sales-style-quiz Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfQNMxt1N_x6vO_dnizVu2g Follow SHE SELLS HE SELLS on IG: https://www.instagram.com/shesellshesellspodcast Follow Krista on Instagram: @kristademcher Follow Krista on TikTok: @kristademcher

    30 min
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About

Most people think selling is something you do at work, but Krista and Brian Demcher have spent nearly three decades proving otherwise - in corporate sales rooms, entrepreneurial ventures, and over 25 years of marriage and raising a family, which is honestly where the real persuasion happens. Every week on this sales and communication podcast, they bring one bold idea worth buying and walk you through the story behind it, the case for it, and the pushback against it - so by the end, you don't just know where you stand, you understand exactly how you got there. Think of it as a persuasion and storytelling masterclass disguised as a really good conversation. Because a good idea is only as good as your ability to sell it! Sales skills are life skills...and this show is where you learn them. New episodes every Monday.

Information

  • Creator
    Krista and Brian Demcher
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    206
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026
  • Show Website
    She Sells He Sells

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