Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Jason Swenk

Growing an agency is very difficult, and you might feel unclear what to do next in order to grow and scale your agency. The Smart Agency Masterclass is a weekly podcast for agencies that are wanting to grow faster. We interview amazing guests from all over the world that have the experience of running successful businesses, and will provide you the insights you need. Our podcast is just over 3 years old, and have reached more than a half million listeners in 42 countries.

  1. 3D AGO

    Want to Sell Your Agency? Start by Firing Yourself with Taylor McMaster | Ep #879

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners talk about selling someday, but very few actually build with that outcome in mind. They stay deeply embedded in delivery, sales, and decision-making, hoping an exit will magically appear later. In this episode, that myth gets dismantled. Today's featured guest, former owner of Dot & Company, shares how she intentionally designed a productized agency that could run without her long before an acquisition was even on the table. After successfully selling Dot & Co to E2M, she reflects on building with exit thinking from day one, how she connected with the right buyers, how she knew it was the right deal, and what genuinely surprised her about the process. Taylor McMaster is the former owner of Dot & Company. She built and sold a productized agency specializing in fractional account management for agencies and successfully exited to E2M after designing the business to operate without her long before the deal was on the table. If you've ever wondered what it actually takes to build an agency you can step away from, and one someone would want to buy, this conversation sets the stage. In this episode, we'll discuss: Making the decision to build a sellable business early on The role that uncloked scale The sales trap Why her exit felt easy Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How to Build an Agency You Can Sell Many agency owners say they want to sell one day, but are building a business that tells a very different story. They're still on every client call. Still approving every deliverable. Still the only one who can close deals. Still the glue holding everything together. That's not an agency. That's a very stressful job. For her part, Taylor decided early on that she didn't wait until she was exhausted to think about an exit. She designed the business for it. Exit Thinking Changes Everything About a year into building Dot & Co, Taylor made a quiet but powerful decision: "If I want an exit someday, I can't build this like a lifestyle business." That one thought changed how she hired, delegated, and structured the company. Instead of asking, "How do I do this better?" She asked, "How do I make myself unnecessary?" That meant systematically removing herself from every critical lane: Fulfillment People management Operations Admin Finance Not overnight. Not perfectly. But intentionally. The First Hire That Most Agency Owners Avoid Most agency owners start by hiring delivery help. However, there are multiple ways to go about this, especially if you understand where your expertise lies and where someone else could be doing a better job. Taylor hired a people manager early because she knew managing humans was her weakest skill and her biggest future bottleneck. That one hire unlocked scale. Why? Because resource-heavy agencies don't break because of strategy. They break because of people chaos. The Agency Sales Trap and Lesson Learned Like most founders, Taylor stayed in sales for a while. Eventually, she tried to step out and hit friction. Sales slowed. Messaging got inconsistent. Results dipped. For her, the lesson was that founder-led sales works because you know the stories, the nuance, the pain. Her hindsight advice is gold for any agency owner: Get really good at sales first, then teach it or bring in a true closer once the system exists. Too many owners abdicate sales before they've productized it. That's how pipelines dry up and panic hiring begins. Creating an Easy Exit… Because the Work Was Done Early By the time E2M acquired Dot & Co, Taylor had already: taken a 6-month maternity leave, removed herself from day-to-day operations and watched the business continue to grow without her So when the deal closed, there was no scramble. No identity meltdown. No team revolt. Her team was excited. Clients were curious but optimistic. And Taylor was ready. Finding Identity Without Being Trapped By Your Agency Taylor realized something most agency owners avoid: You can love your business without owning it. When your identity isn't trapped inside your agency, you make better decisions. You stop hoarding control. You stop being the bottleneck. You build something that actually has value with or without you. If you're stuck in fulfillment… If your team can't move without you… If you're scared to step back because everything might break… That's not a failure. It's just a sign you've built around you instead of systems. And that's fixable. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    26 min
  2. #1 Overlooked Exit Strategy: Selling Your Agency to a Team Member with Natalie Henley | Ep #878

    6D AGO

    #1 Overlooked Exit Strategy: Selling Your Agency to a Team Member with Natalie Henley | Ep #878

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Natalie Henley, CEO of Volume Nine, is here to unpack how she bought out her agency's founder. Not through PE, not through M&A, but as a trusted insider who built her path from employee to owner. Natalie shares the behind-the-scenes story of how she structured the deal without needing an SBA loan, the mindset shifts she had to make, and how the agency survived both Google's algorithm changes and COVID-19 cratering their top clients. In this episode, we'll discuss: Grooming your #2 to become your successor, or become the one buying. Avoiding mistakes that slow down or kill an internal exit. Using creative financing (HELOCs, owner carry notes, balloon payments) to structure the deal. Knowing when an employee has what it takes to run the agency. Preserving trust and team stability during a leadership transition. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Links: Natalie's free AI and SEO grader tool: geo.v9digital.com Want to know what your agency is worth? Check out the Agency Valuation Calculator   The overlooked exit strategy: selling your agency to a team member… Natalie started as an employee in a boutique digital firm. When it got acquired by Volume Nine, she climbed the ranks the old-school way: by taking on every problem no one else would. Over time, she ran the company. Then COVID hit. The agency's revenue cratered. Clients disappeared. The founder wanted out. But instead of flipping to a stranger, he turned to Natalie. The "Oh Shit" Moment and the Deal That Followed When the founder came to Natalie with the offer to buy, he already had the groundwork laid. He'd called the bank, scoped out an SBA loan, and gave her a number. Natalie didn't have a pile of cash sitting around, but she did have grit, resourcefulness, and inside knowledge of the business. She didn't take the SBA route. Instead, she pieced together a creative financing stack: A HELOC for the down payment An owner-carry note A balloon payment at the end The company is paying for itself over time. No brokers. No middlemen. Just a fair, fast, founder-to-founder deal. Why This Worked (And Why Most Don't) Natalie had already been: Running the company Exposed to the numbers Made a co-owner years earlier This wasn't a random promotion. It was a trust-built, stress-tested evolution. And it mattered. Because when the deal closed, the culture didn't collapse. The clients stayed. The team believed. What if the best buyer for your agency is already on your team? If you're feeling done, but still care about your agency, selling to a team member might be the cleanest win. Here's how to set it up: Start grooming your #2 now. VP → President → Co-owner → Buyer. Expose them to EBITDA, profitability, client churn…. everything. Stress-test them: give scary responsibilities and see how they show up. Be fair. Don't squeeze every dime. The goal is continuity and peace of mind. Don't wait until you're burned out. Move before it's a fire drill. Agency ownership is a wild ride. If you're looking for a graceful exit that doesn't torch your legacy, this might be it. And if you're the #2? Start acting like the owner today. You never know when the keys will be offered. As Natalie said, "If you care about your team and the agency's legacy, you owe it to yourself to consider your employees as potential buyers. Even if they say no, at least you gave them a shot." Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    24 min
  3. FEB 4

    Pricing Should Scare You: How to Stop Clients from Undervaluing Your Agency's Work with Alicia Disantis | Ep #877

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you feel underpaid, misunderstood, or stuck explaining why your work costs what it costs? Most agency owners don't wake up one day and decide, "You know what sounds fun? Running an agency." They stumble into it, usually because the job market fails them. That's exactly how today's featured guest got her start. In this episode, she'll unpack how slowly building her confidence as she gained more experienced changed her perspective on pricing and why most "thought leadership" content does more harm than good. Alicia Disantis is the owner and creative director of 38th & Kip Studio, a dual branding and design studio celebrating 15 years in business. She founded the agency during the 2008 recession, which is about as pressure-filled a launchpad as you can imagine. Before building a sustainable agency, Alicia wore a lot of creative hats: video game character artist for early mobile games, comic book artist for an urban vampire/werewolf series, and unpaid intern at a graphic design. These experiences heavily shaped how she thinks about value, pricing, and positioning today. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why agency pricing should feel scary. Educating clients who think your work is "easy." An approach to thought leadership that actually creates value. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Creating a Unique Path that Lead to Agency Ownership Like many agency owners, Alicia didn't start with a master plan. She started with a student loan bill that arrived a month before graduation and over a hundred job applications that led nowhere. When the traditional path failed, she did what resourceful creatives do: she pieced together work wherever she could find it. Freelance gigs turned into repeat work. Repeat work turned into confidence. And eventually, confidence turned into a business. She went from being an unpaid intern, to game designer, to a comic book designer, and forged a unique path, going from charging just $200 for her first freelance job to earning the confidence she needed to believe she could build her own business. Most agencies are born from survival more than a carefully thought business plan. The danger is that when you start that way, you often carry survival pricing and survival thinking far longer than you should. That early context matters, because it explains why so many agency owners struggle to raise prices later. From $200 Clients to Pricing That Feels Scary (In a Good Way) Alicia's first client paid her $200. She also did a lot of free work, because at the time, that felt like the only way in. What changed over the years wasn't some magic pricing formula. It was confidence. Marketing and creative work is deeply undervalued, especially compared to STEM or "expert" services. People don't argue over a $250 legal consult but they will argue endlessly over a logo. As Alicia grew, she learned three critical skills: Educating clients on the real cost of doing work right Having the confidence to say no Quoting prices that made her a little uncomfortable It wasn't easy, but mostly it just took time. How to Educate Clients Who Think a Logo Is "Easy" Alicia managed to reframe the value of branding for skeptical clients not by arguing but by analogizing. Instead of defending design directly, she compares it to plumbing, legal work, or real estate. You wouldn't hire a $5 freelancer to represent you in civil court, so why would you do that for the thing that represents your entire business? This framing does two things: It removes emotion from the conversation It positions branding as expert work, not artistic preference Clients should also understand the hidden cost of "cheap" solutions, especially with websites. Hiring a friend or a bargain provider usually leads to cut corners, broken functionality, and stalled growth when the person inevitably disappears. The goal isn't to lead with fear. It's to calmly explain consequences and let the client decide if cheap is really cheaper. Thought Leadership That Builds Trust (Not Clickbait) Thought leadership is an area where Alicia found significant success creating valuable educational content. In her view, it's also something most agencies get wrong. The problem isn't content volume. It's content relevance. In her experience, the key to producing this content is leading with research on what people want to hear about. She's also encountered many white papers that don't even offer any takeaways or new perspectives, which ends up diluting the trust on your brand. Alicia insists that everything she produces or is a part of must have key takeaways that her audience can translate into a real technical plan. She shared a four-part framework she uses before creating educational content: Motivation – Why does the audience care right now? Pain points – What problem are they actually trying to solve? Literacy level – How well do they understand the subject? Communication style – How do they prefer to consume information? The literacy piece is where most agencies mess up. If you speak marketing jargon to an audience that doesn't have that literacy, you don't sound smart. You sound patronizing. And nobody buys when they feel dumb. Alicia is intentional about making sure everything she puts out includes tangible takeaways—things people can write down and act on. Without that, it's just noise. Playing the Long Game with Content and Personal Brand This podcast started over a decade ago not as a growth hack, but out of curiosity. The goal was to let listeners be a fly on the wall. The payoff took years, but now it's a massive moat. People join our community and say they've been listening for years before ever raising their hand. That kind of trust doesn't come from ads with rented Lambos. But it also takes time and determination. Less than 7% of podcasts make it past episode three, and only about 1% make it beyond episode 23. From Alicia's perspective, finding your unique personality and value proposition is the hardest part of business. People are afraid to be different, but different is the whole point. Discovering your own value proposition on your own is like trying to tickle yourself. You need outside perspective to see what's actually special. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    24 min
  4. From Burnout to Boundaries. Designing an Agency That Energizes You with Ingrid Schneider | Ep #876

    FEB 1

    From Burnout to Boundaries. Designing an Agency That Energizes You with Ingrid Schneider | Ep #876

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you feel you're giving everything to your agency and only getting exhaustion as a result? Agencies grow best when they're built around clarity, empathy, and self-awareness. Whether it's pricing, boundaries, team management, or AI, the common thread is intention. Today's featured guest understands that you don't need to hustle harder. You need to design smarter, around who you are, how you work best, and what kind of business you actually want to run. She'll share her perspective on agency growth, self-awareness, leadership, and how AI should actually be used inside a modern agency and provide a real look at what it takes to build an agency that's profitable, human, and sustainable without losing yourself in the process. Ingrid Schneider is the CEO and founder of Stay in Your Lane, a fractional CMO and franchise development agency, and Train in Your Lane, an AI education company helping teams build real AI intuition. What started as fractional work after being laid off during the pandemic has grown into a 16-person team running full marketing departments, launching brands, building LMS platforms, and training companies like Ben & Jerry's and Ace Hardware on how to actually use AI to solve problems. In this episode, we'll discuss: Going from survival mode to self-worth: pricing and confidence. How to set boundaries and protect your brain. Design an agency that energizes you, not drains you. Managing people, not just performance with a human-first approach. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Building an Agency on Trust and Integrity Ingrid doesn't come from a tidy, linear career path. After being laid off as a CMO during the pandemic, she made the decision to not work for anyone else again. She started doing fractional CMO work to replace her salary, focusing on trust, authenticity, and doing the work well. What began as a solo operation three and a half years ago is now a full team serving a wide range of clients. Some rely on Ingrid's team to run their entire marketing department. Others bring them in for focused, fractional engagements. The growth didn't come from aggressive sales tactics—it came from being reliable, human, and honest about what they were good at. Learning Your Worth and Unlearning Survival Mode When Ingrid landed her first client, she charged $3,000 a month for two brands. And that client still complained about pricing. Like many agency owners, she was focused on replacing her salary, not building a business. Survival mode has a way of shrinking your sense of value. Learning her worth didn't come from a pricing spreadsheet. It came from personal work deconstructing old beliefs, recognizing her own capabilities, and understanding the impact she could have on others. Ingrid talks openly about how her upbringing and past experiences shaped her tendency to underprice herself and overextend. As her confidence grew, so did her standards. She began collecting people with grit, sometimes hiring for attitude over experience, and building a team she trusted deeply. The biggest lesson for her was: if you don't believe in your value, your pricing, and your agency, will reflect that. Preventing Agency Burnout: How to Set Boundaries Running a business can be incredibly stressful, which is why many owners can relate to being in fight or fly mode all the time. However, this is the worst thing for both your health and your business because chronic stress will affect your brain and get you to a point known as "flipping your lid." According to Ingrid, this term, which she learned from Dr. Daniel Siegel, describes what happens when stress pushes you into fight, flight, or freeze. Logic goes offline. Creativity disappears and everything feels harder. For agency owners, this shows up as exhaustion, impatience, and bad decisions, and healing will mean confronting the reality that you can't run a business well if your body and brain are in survival mode. In her case, Ingrid found healing by emphasizing boundaries as a leadership responsibility. Knowing where your value is best served, trusting your team, and recognizing when their lids are flipped allows you to lead with empathy instead of pressure. The agency doesn't need a burned-out hero. It needs a regulated, self-aware leader. Designing an Agency That Energizes You, Not Drains You This is a lesson that agency owners that currently feel miserable with their business and wanting to give up should learn. Drawing your boundaries will look different to everyone, but you can start by asking yourself what you want to do every day and what you never want to do again. Just draw a circle on a piece of paper and start writing. Inside: the work that gives you energy. Outside: everything that drains you. You'll see that most likely what you need is to redesign your agency around this. You can't be all things to all people. Agency that try usually end up miserable and unprofitable. Wins and losses both matter, but only if you're paying attention to what they're teaching you. Topline revenue means nothing if you hate how you're earning it. Sustainable growth comes from aligning what's good for the business with what actually fills your cup. That alignment is what keeps agencies alive long-term. Managing People, Not Just Performance with a Human-First Approach As an empath, Ingrid leads with a people-first approach rooted in Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI). When something goes wrong, she looks at three things in order: herself, the system, and then the person. Are expectations clear? Do they have the resources they need? Is she showing up with patience? Perfectionism isn't the goal in her agency because perfection is stressful, unrealistic, and unnecessary. Instead, the focus is on doing really good work while protecting the team's mental energy. This is where AI comes in, not as a shortcut for thinking, but as a way to remove the minutia that burns people out. This has been the case for Ingrid, who enjoys managing people. If this is not your case, then focus on hiring people who can manage themselves. But remember you have to learn to let go if you want a self-managing team. There are countless ways to reach the same outcome and speed isn't always the metric that matters most. Sometimes the "slow" work produces the best results. Using AI to Empower Teams, Not Create More Noise Ingrid's approach focuses on education and the fact that everyone should be training their AI intuition to be able to understand how an AI tool works and how it could help them. She trained her own intuition by changing her social media algorithms to feed her AI micro-learnings. From there, it became about application: looking at every agency task and asking, Can AI help solve this better? Her team runs weekly "show and tell" sessions where they demo how they used AI to solve real problems. There's also an AI policy but it's framed as a permission slip, not a rulebook. Team members can experiment with tools on a company card, and if they prove value, the agency commits. The bigger point is this: if you're not empowering your team to use AI thoughtfully, you're holding them back. This isn't about pumping out more content—it's about freeing up human brains to do the work that actually matters. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    26 min
  5. JAN 28

    Can You Trust AI With Your Marketing Data or Is It Lying to You? With Scott Desgrosseilliers | Ep #875

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you feeding your data into AI and assuming the insights it gives you are accurate? What if those confident-sounding answers are quietly steering you in the wrong direction? More agency owners are turning to AI to analyze and interpret performance data, and for good reason. Used correctly, it can save massive amounts of time and move teams beyond using AI to crank out blog posts, ads, or emails faster. But when it comes to attribution, performance analysis, and real decision-making, AI has a dangerous flaw: it's often wrong with absolute confidence. Today's featured guest understands where most agencies go wrong with AI-driven data analysis. He'll break down why large language models frequently misinterpret marketing data, how flawed inputs and assumptions lead to misleading insights, and what it actually takes to get reliable answers from AI without burning budget or making bad strategic calls. Scott Desgrosseilliers is the founder and CEO of Wicked Reports, a marketing attribution platform built specifically for e-commerce brands doing between $5M and $50M in annual revenue. Scott has spent years deep in attribution, analytics, and now AI, figuring out how to separate real signal from noise in an ecosystem where every platform claims the win. He'll talk about how most platforms may be misleading you and the framework he uses to bring sanity back to attribution for serious e-commerce brands. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why AI is sounds smart but gets marketing attribution wrong. Injecting intention into AI. The Five Forces framework to improve your AI data. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why AI Sounds Smart But Gets Marketing Attribution Wrong One of the biggest myths around AI is that it's inherently "smart." Scott shared that it took eight months for Wicked Reports to release their AI analyst, not because the tech wasn't powerful, but because it was too confident while being wrong. AI models are designed to sound affirmative. Ask them a bad question, and they'll still give you a polished answer. If you ask ChatGPT if you should jump off a bridge, it'll say, "Yes, that's a great idea," unless you explicitly train it to be critical. That's a massive problem when you're dealing with revenue attribution and ad spend decisions. Another major issue is that AI lacks native understanding of time, which is foundational to attribution. Clicks, impressions, tags, and conversions happen in sequence over days or weeks. Without heavy rules, coaching, and sanity checks layered in, AI can't naturally interpret cause and effect. Left alone, it simply fills in gaps, and those hallucinations can cost you real money. Why Intention and Metrics Matter More Than the AI Tool The first thing Scott's team had to "inject" into the AI was intention. Not all campaigns exist to do the same job. Prospecting, retargeting, direct response, and existing customer campaigns each have different goals and therefore require different scoreboards. If you don't tell the AI what the intention is for each row of data, it will make assumptions. And those assumptions are usually wrong. The "North Star" metrics and leading indicators change depending on what you're trying to accomplish. A prospecting campaign shouldn't be judged the same way as an abandoned cart flow. The second big issue is AI's obsession with ROAS. ROAS is easy to latch onto because it gets rewarded with "thumbs up" feedback, but it's often misleading. If two-thirds of your reported revenue comes from repeat customers via email or SMS, AI might tell you your ads are crushing it when they're not. Simply separating new customers from repeat customers already puts you ahead of 95% of advertisers. The Five Forces Framework for Making Better Attribution Decisions To solve these problems, Scott introduced his Five Forces Framework, (intention, expectation, action, outcome, and optimization) a methodology most agencies simply aren't using. The first force is Intention, which defines both the scoreboard and the timeframe. New customer acquisition might need a 30–90 day window to show results, while an abandoned cart campaign can be evaluated in seven days. Without this context, teams panic too early and kill campaigns that haven't had time to work. The second force is Expectation, which is all about alignment. Brand owners often look at Shopify, GA4, Meta, Google, Klaviyo, and SMS dashboards—all showing different numbers. Without agreeing on a single version of truth, clients freak out and shut down top-of-funnel campaigns after five days because the data "doesn't look good yet." Setting expectations isn't a one-time conversation; it has to be reinforced constantly. Reducing Drama: Use "Scale, Chill, and Kill" to Guide Ad Spend The third force is Action, which includes launching the campaign but only after defining clear boundaries. Scott recommends setting "Scale, Chill, and Kill" zones before you spend a dollar. For example, if your acceptable new customer acquisition cost is $50–$70, that's your Chill zone. Below $50? Scale it. Above $70? Kill it. These predefined rules remove emotion, reduce second-guessing, and dramatically lower what Scott calls "psychic stress" inside agencies and brands. Once campaigns run, the fourth force—Outcome—is simply measuring performance against those zones. Did it scale, chill, or die? Optimization Is More Than Creative Tweaks Most agencies obsess over creative, constantly swapping headlines, images, and copy. For Scott, optimization should be more structured. At his agency, they use a decision log to rank potential actions by impact, focusing on whether the problem is the offer, the creative, the traffic, or the budget. But Scott added a fourth optimization factor most teams miss: signaling. If you don't send the right signals back to ad platforms, your optimization efforts don't matter. Meta, in particular, is very good at claiming credit for conversions it didn't truly drive and if it sees quick conversions, it will chase more of those, even if they're just repeat customers. Training Ad Platforms to Optimize for What Actually Matters To fix this, Scott recommends creating separate events in Meta's Events Manager for new customer purchases versus repeat purchases. That way, ad sets can optimize specifically for the outcome you want. If you're closing existing customers through email or SMS, you don't want Meta learning from those conversions. But when a new customer buys, Meta gets a clean signal and starts finding more people like them. Scott noted that when creative and offer are solid, sharpening signals alone can dramatically reduce acquisition costs within a month. You can even go deeper by signaling based on SKU types, allowing platforms to optimize toward higher-quality or more strategic purchases—not just any conversion they can grab credit for. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    19 min
  6. Why Most Agencies Sound the Same and How Yours Can Be Different with David Brier | Ep #874

    JAN 25

    Why Most Agencies Sound the Same and How Yours Can Be Different with David Brier | Ep #874

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies don't have a marketing problem. They have a sameness problem. Their websites, their services, their "award-winning team" language. It's all the same. They even have the same promises that sound impressive but mean absolutely nothing to a prospect who's heard it 50 times this week. Today's featured guest has a pretty good idea of why agencies are blending into the background and how the ones that win are doing the opposite. He'll get into differentiation, AI, pricing confidence, RFPs, and why playing it safe is the fastest way to disappear. David Brier is the the branding expert CEOs call when their marketing hits a wall. He calls himself "rehab for brands" to help get them profitable. He is the author of Brand Intervention and Rich Brand, Poor Brand, and he's built a career around one core idea most agencies completely miss: branding isn't about looking better but about being different. After realizing there were more than 25,000 branding books and no agreed-upon definition, David distilled branding down to four words: the art of differentiation. That idea alone reframes how agencies should think about positioning, pricing, and growth, especially right now. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why Differentiation Isn't Optional in the Age of Lazy Thinking. Get Rid of the Agency Speak Saying 'No' as a Strategic Advantage Different is Better Than Better Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Why Branding and Differentiation Are No Longer Optional for Agencies David's definition of branding cuts through the noise because it mirrors how humans actually behave. We notice what's different. We ignore what feels familiar. If your agency sounds like a remix of every other agency, your prospects' brains will quietly check out. That's why brands like Apple feel predictable in a good way. As Seth Godin once said, you know what an Apple sneaker would be like. You don't know what a Marriott sneaker would be like—and that's the problem. One owns a point of view. The other plays it safe. For agencies, differentiation means making a choice and being willing to lose people who aren't a fit. That's uncomfortable, especially if you're used to trying to appeal to everyone. But the agencies that scale aren't trying to be a choice. They're working to become the choice for the right clients. How "Agency Speak" Is Killing Your Sales Ask most agency owners what makes them different and you'll hear the same three things: our people, our process, our portfolio. That language doesn't differentiate you, it only anesthetizes the conversation. You wouldn't advise your clients to use the language of the competition, so why would you? Additionally, David also believes that brands that take a stand and aren't afraid to be bold will automatically stand out from the many many agencies that are too timid and too afraid to offend. This doesn't mean you have to be divisive. You can be bold in a way that actually brings people together. This fear of being truly different comes from the way we're all wired to believe that an amazing portfolio will be enough to draw people in. But the portfolio isn't the most important thing in the room, is the person sitting across from you. Stop leading with your work and start leading with questions. When you ask better questions and actually listen, prospects feel seen. By the time you show your portfolio, if you even need to, they've already decided whether they trust you. That kind of confidence signals maturity—and it instantly separates you from the agencies still performing their pitch deck like a talent show. Why AI Is Fueling a Sea of Sameness in Agency Marketing AI isn't the enemy… but lazy thinking is. David sees it as everyone is now outsourcing their ingenuity to the same tools, using the same prompts, producing the same safe output. The result is, of course, a sea of indistinguishable brands with no soul and no pulse. What he calls "The Great Wall of Beige." The mistake agencies make is thinking AI replaces brilliance. It doesn't. It amplifies whatever you bring to it. If you don't have a point of view, AI will happily help you sound like everyone else faster. The agencies that win in this era will use AI as a tool, not a crutch. They'll still ask, "Why the hell not?" They'll still challenge assumptions. And they'll still bring conviction, creativity, and human judgment to the table, because that's the part clients can't automate. The Power of Saying No: Reclaiming Pricing and Positioning When a buying process is run by a committee, the goal isn't excellence, it's consensus. And consensus is where great ideas go to die. This is why David stopped participating in RFPs. The most powerful move an agency can make isn't trying harder to win bad deals. It's being willing to walk away. The ability to say no signals strength. It reframes the relationship. When you stop chasing every opportunity and start choosing your clients, pricing objections lose their power. As David put it, when prospects ask why he's so expensive, he flips the script: "Why is everyone else so cheap?" That mindset shift alone changes how clients perceive your value. What's Next for Agencies to Stay Profitable in a Changing Market The landscape is changing even from week to week with new technologies, which makes it harder to predict how the industry will change in years to come. For David, it all boils down to knowing what you're selling. Agencies that sell themselves as commodities will basically go out of business. As he points out, AI is accelerating output but not judgment, taste, or leadership. When everyone has access to the same tools and prompts, the middle ground disappears fast. Agencies that sell "deliverables" instead of thinking will find themselves racing to the bottom on price, competing with software instead of strategy. In a market flooded with instant, AI-generated work, the real differentiator becomes the ability to think on your feet, challenge assumptions, and connect dots in real time. The greatest athletes, actors, comedians, and entrepreneurs in the world were able to think for themselves and could take something unexpected and work with it and improvise. Can you give people something unexpected? That's something no tool can replicate, and it's why experience is becoming more valuable, not less. Why Different Beats Better: Escaping the Race to the Bottom David strongly believes that in these times of sameness and an abundance of content that lacks pulse and personality, different is better than better. Agencies that have completely given up trying to create something unique and have instead relegated the thinking to AI will try to stand out by repeatedly stating they're better, faster, or bigger. David, however, prefers to offer something different. This gives him the confidence to face clients that come to a meeting with rehearsed questions they got from other creators to assess him and counter with "actually, you're asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is…" No framework replaces conviction. The best leaders don't answer scripted questions—they redirect them. That's how you elevate the conversation. That's how you escape commodity pricing. And that's how you build a brand people remember. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    30 min
  7. JAN 21

    From Broken Agency Partnerships to Bulletproof Self-Belief with Cliff Skelliter | Ep #873

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have you ever questioned whether you're actually built for the hard seasons of agency life? When things get messy, unpredictable, or overwhelming, do you wonder if you have what it takes to keep going or if everyone else somehow got a playbook you missed? Most agency owners don't wake up one day and decide, "I'm going to build an agency." They trip into it. One project turns into two, side work turns into real revenue, and suddenly you're invoicing clients without knowing what an invoice number is supposed to look like. Today's featured guest unpacks what it really looks like to build an agency without a roadmap. Through failed partnerships, stalled careers, and moments where quitting felt easier than continuing, he developed the resilience and mindset required to keep moving. Cliff Skelliter is a serial entrepreneur and owner of Launchpad Creative, a design-thinking agency, working across brand identity, video production, and strategy. They blend artistry, functionality, and brand communication to create captivating digital and physical spaces that not only engage and inspire but also reflect the essence and values of the organizations they work with. In this episode, we'll discuss: The Easiest Choice: Leaving his Career and Going All-In on the Agency What He Learned from His Partnership Experiences Self-Belief as the Most Important Lesson for Agency Owners Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When Going All-In on the Side Hustle is as Easy Yes Cliff didn't grow up in a family of entrepreneurs, and never set out to "start a business." His entry into agency life wasn't strategic, it was reactive. While working an internship at Canadian news station CTV, he saw the ceiling in broadcast media and realized that no matter how talented or ambitious he was, there was a limit to how far that career could go. Meanwhile, he was already getting requests to work on some projects outside of the station. Eventually, the projects kept getting bigger and the people at the station complained Cliff was creating a conflict of interests with his side hustle, as clients chose him, instead of the station, to produce their commercials. It was an ultimatum, and the choice was clear. By then, that "side hustle" was more lucrative and offered more creative control. Plus, it was just more fun. What's important here isn't just how Cliff started—it's what he didn't have. No business background. No sales training. No master plan. Like many agency owners, he learned by doing, Googling, guessing, and occasionally getting it wrong, which is mostly the default path. The danger is assuming everyone else has it figured out, while you're making it up as you go. Agency Partnerships: When They Work and When They Break You Cliff's first business partnership was both formative and brutal. His partner helped get the business off the ground but was dishonest, reckless, and ultimately destructive. While Cliff focused on creative work, his partner handled sales and accounts… and quietly created financial chaos. When the partner disappeared, Cliff was left holding the debt and the consequences. Many agency owners bring on partners not because it's strategic, but because it feels safer. Someone else handles sales. Someone else deals with money. Someone else shares the weight. But if values, ethics, and accountability aren't aligned, the cost can be enormous. Thankfully, Cliff was able to recover from the blows to both the agency's finances and its reputation. He also gave partnerships another chance. The second partnership was different and far more successful. Cliff partnered with someone who combined complementary skills to build a business that lasted nine years. It worked because each person did what they were good at and didn't want to do the rest. Even then, the partnership eventually ended, not because of business failure, but personal life complications. Partnerships aren't good or bad by default; they amplify whatever already exists. Clear roles, boundaries, and shared values make them powerful. Avoidance, people-pleasing, and lack of communication make them fragile. Resilience, Self-Belief, and the Placebo Effect of Entrepreneurship Cliff got important lessons from both experiences, mainly that he's much more capable than he thought. He could handle sales, which is something he doubted for years. Like many agency owners, he assumed you had to be a certain "type" of salesperson or personality to run a business. In reality, you just need to ask better questions and not be afraid of uncomfortable conversations. He also learned he's far more resilient than he gave himself credit for. Most agency owners would testify to the fact that the universe constantly gives you outs. Jobs. Acquisitions. Easier paths. And yet, something in your gut says, "I'm not done." That resilience isn't logical. It's identity-level. Entrepreneurship stops being something you do and becomes something you are. He now understands the importance of believing in himself, even when it seems absurd. Your mind alone can trigger real physical outcomes. When doubt creeps in, remind yourself that belief itself is a lever. Not hype and not manifesting nonsense; just the willingness to keep going when the story in your head tells you to quit. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    30 min
  8. How to Adapt When Your Agency Niche Stops Working with Laryssa Wirstiuk | Ep #872

    JAN 18

    How to Adapt When Your Agency Niche Stops Working with Laryssa Wirstiuk | Ep #872

    Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Running an agency today looks nothing like it did even a few years ago. What used to work: SEO-driven inbound leads, tight vertical niches, and predictable platforms, has shifted fast. Today's featured guest has learned to adapt to these changes and went from having a clear and defined niche to letting clients' needs guide the next steps for her business. She'll talk about navigating those changes, evolving your positioning, and deciding whether you're actually willing to do what adaptation requires. Laryssa Wirstiuk is the owner of Joy Joya, a boutique email and SMS marketing agency that serves women-focused, product-based e-commerce brands. With more than 15 years in marketing and over a decade running her own agency, Laryssa has lived through multiple shifts in platforms, buyer behavior, and agency models. Her background as a marketing generalist, working across SEO, social, and email, gave her the flexibility to adapt as the market changed. That adaptability, combined with a strong point of view on branding, inbound marketing, and outbound growth, made her a great guest for agency owners questioning what's next for their own businesses. In this episode, we'll discuss: Starting out with a clear niche and evolving along the way. Adopting a hybrid growth strategy. Personal brand vs. clear offers. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. How to Choose a Niche Without Getting Stuck In It Laryssa didn't stumble into her original niche by accident. After working across industries like tech, education, and healthcare, she realized none of them truly excited her. Jewelry stood out because of its mix of fashion, storytelling, and creativity. Rather than guessing, she intentionally took in-house and freelance roles in the jewelry industry to build credibility before going all in. That vertical focus paid off. By committing to a specific industry, Laryssa was able to build a strong referral network, speak at trade shows, and create highly targeted content that drove inbound leads. But after nine years in the jewelry space, she noticed that the biggest results she delivered for clients consistently came from email marketing. What started as one service among many became the clear driver of ROI. The shift from a vertical niche (jewelry) to a horizontal specialization (email and SMS marketing) wasn't a sudden pivot. It was a response to real performance data. Stronger results, clearer processes, and deeper expertise made the decision feel natural. Your niche should serve your strengths, not trap you in yesterday's model. Why Inbound Alone Is No Longer Enough For most of Joy Joya's history, inbound marketing did the heavy lifting. Content, SEO, YouTube, and a podcast tailored to the jewelry industry created steady deal flow without much outbound effort. That's one of the biggest benefits of vertical focus: you can dominate a small pond with the right content and relationships. But the market shifted. Search behavior changed. Social algorithms changed and AI entered the picture. Laryssa realized that relying solely on inbound was no longer enough. Over the past year or two, she intentionally started building outbound muscles: cold email, cold calling, LinkedIn outreach, and systems that allowed her team to support those efforts. The key insight here isn't that inbound is dead, it's that inbound alone is risky. Agencies that survived and grew were willing to adapt their acquisition mix, even when it meant doing uncomfortable things. The Hard Question Every Agency Owner Faces Adapting isn't just about strategy. You should also ask yourself whether you want to do what's required next. New platforms, new sales motions, and new expectations can trigger an existential crisis for long-time owners. You don't have to love every part of running an agency, but you do need the discipline to face the things you'd rather avoid. The solution isn't grinding forever but rather identifying what you don't enjoy, systemizing it, delegating it, or removing it altogether. Agency owners should get comfortable with change as a necessary part of running an agency. The hard part is that change often targets the things you already tolerate but don't love. That's why many agencies stall. The owners don't hate their situation enough to change it but they don't love it enough to stay fully committed either. When Personal Brand Creates Attention But Not Conversions As AI and recommendation engines influence buying decisions, developing a personal brand becomes vital when it comes to being recommended by these tools. People want to work with leaders whose beliefs, values, and perspectives they understand. That's why podcasts, long-form content, and consistent points of view matter more than ever. In her case, Laryssa shared an unexpected challenge after developing her personal brand. She had built such a strong personal and brand identity that many people understood her perspective but didn't fully understand what her agency actually did. In some cases, prospects were more familiar with the brand name than the services behind it. The lesson for agency owners is balance. Thought leadership without clear offers creates attention without conversion. As platforms evolve, it's not enough to educate—you need to connect that education to the right services, for the right audience, at the right time. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

    15 min
4.8
out of 5
123 Ratings

About

Growing an agency is very difficult, and you might feel unclear what to do next in order to grow and scale your agency. The Smart Agency Masterclass is a weekly podcast for agencies that are wanting to grow faster. We interview amazing guests from all over the world that have the experience of running successful businesses, and will provide you the insights you need. Our podcast is just over 3 years old, and have reached more than a half million listeners in 42 countries.

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