The Backstage Pastors Podcast

Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz
  • 5.0 (3)
  • Christianity
  • Updated Monthly

The Backstage Pastors Podcast is dedicated to the unique challenges and opportunities facing executive pastors and second-chair leaders in churches and nonprofits. Hosts Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz share hard-earned insights and introduce listeners to diverse leaders doing meaningful work behind the scenes. Together, they offer practical, actionable conversations designed to strengthen the ministries and people they quietly support.

  1. Rich Birch on Building Churches that Keep Growing

    5d ago

    Rich Birch on Building Churches that Keep Growing

    Rich Birch joins Phil and Tyler for a wide-ranging conversation about church growth, executive leadership, and helping churches remove barriers that prevent people from encountering Jesus. Drawing from decades of executive pastor experience and hundreds of conversations through the UnSeminary Podcast, Rich shares the mission behind his work and the insights he's gathered from one of the largest ongoing executive pastor surveys. The conversation explores what today's executive pastors are experiencing, including an encouraging sense of optimism alongside widespread staff exhaustion. Rich discusses why people—not finances or facilities—remain the greatest concern for executive pastors and offers practical ideas for improving staff health and leadership development. Rich also challenges a common assumption about church growth by arguing that many churches don't actually have a "back door" problem—they have a "front door" problem. He explains why churches should become obsessed with the guest experience, simplify every step of the first-time visitor journey, and intentionally build systems that help newcomers connect. Rich explains why personal invitations continue to be the single greatest driver of church growth and offers practical ways churches can equip and encourage their people to invite others consistently.   Mentioned Resources 🗣️Follow Rich  🗣️Follow UnSeminenary   💻UnSeminenary Website 💻 Executive Pastor Direct Survey     📕Unlocking Your Church's Invite Culture by Rich Birch 📕Church Growth Flywheel by Rich Birch ⛪️ Connexus Church From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS  07:55 – Rich's Mission and the Story Behind UnSeminary 11:20 – Executive Pastor Survey: Hopeful but Tired 20:40 – Why People Are Every Executive Pastor's Biggest Challenge 27:20 – The Front Door Problem: Helping First-Time Guests Connect 39:30 – Seeing Church Through the Eyes of a First-Time Visitor 42:00 – Building an Invite Culture That Fuels Growth 50:25 – Encouragement for Executive Pastors – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    55 min
  2. Dan Reiland on Four Decades of XP Ministry

    Jun 17

    Dan Reiland on Four Decades of XP Ministry

    Phil and Tyler sit down with longtime executive pastor, author, coach, and leadership mentor Dan Reiland. Dan reflects on his ministry journey, beginning as John Maxwell’s second intern and eventually becoming one of the pioneering executive pastors in the modern church movement. He shares stories from his years at Skyline Church, the Enjoy ministry, and his 25-year tenure at 12Stone Church. The conversation explores how the executive pastor role has evolved over the decades, the challenges and opportunities of church growth, and the importance of balancing organizational leadership with spiritual leadership. Dan offers a behind-the-scenes look at 12Stone’s decision to launch five campuses in a single Sunday, including lessons learned from rapid growth and the importance of strong systems. Dan also discusses the calling and partnership between senior pastors and executive pastors, recounting the remarkable story of how God led him and Kevin Myers into ministry together. The conversation turns to leadership development, mentoring, generational learning, and the growing challenge of helping leaders interpret culture in a rapidly changing world. Dan’s strongest leadership conviction after four decades in ministry is:prayer is not preparation for the work—it is the work.  Mentioned Resources 🗣️Follow Dan 💻Dan’s Website 📕Shoulder to Shoulder: Strengthening the Church by Supporting Your Pastor by Dan Reiland📕Amplified Leadership: Five Practices to Establish Influence, Build People, and Impact Others by Dan Reiland⛪️12Stone Church⛪️ Skyline Church From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS  03:50 – From John Maxwell’s Intern to Executive Pastor 08:26 – How the Executive Pastor Role Has Evolved 12:02 – Launching Five Campuses in One Sunday 19:00 – Supporting and Strengthening Senior Pastors 21:00 – God’s Calling to Partner with Kevin Myers 27:16 – Mentoring Leaders and Interpreting Culture 31:00 – Addressing Anxiety in Today’s Generation 32:05 – Prayer as the Foundation of Church Growth 35:03 – Developing One More Leader – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    42 min
  3. The Accidental Executive Pastor with Becca Knudsen

    Jun 3

    The Accidental Executive Pastor with Becca Knudsen

    In Episode 10 of Backstage Pastors™️, Phil and Tyler sit down with Becca Knudsen, Executive Pastor at Arvada Vineyard Church, to discuss her unique ministry journey, leading alongside a nationally influential lead pastor, and navigating major organizational transitions. Becca shares how an unexpected path—from Young Life leader to opera student to church administrator—ultimately led her into executive pastoral leadership. The conversation explores the realities of serving at a church whose lead pastor, Jay Pathak, also serves as the national director of Vineyard USA. Becca reflects on the spiritual, organizational, and personal challenges that accompanied that transition, including increased responsibility, leadership development, and organizational growing pains. She also provides an inside look at Arvada Vineyard’s decision to move away from a multi-site model and transition campuses into independent churches. Becca explains the discernment process, lessons learned, and why the church would still choose to plant churches in the future—while intentionally building toward eventual independence. Mentioned Resources ⛪️ Arvada Vineyard Church💻 Learn more about the Vineyard movement📅 Check out the Vineyard Gatherings📅The Church Hub Cohorts From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS  03:47 – Becca’s Unconventional Journey into Ministry Leadership 13:18 – Leading Alongside the National Director of Vineyard USA 20:16 – The Challenges of Organizational Change and Staff Transitions 22:45 – Why Arvada Vineyard Reconsidered the Multi-Site Model 27:00 – Discernment, Independence, and Church Planting Strategy 35:00 – How the Congregation Experienced the Transition 37:32 – Building a Staff Rule of Life 42:00 – Sabbath, Solitude, Friendship, and Sustainable Ministry 46:00 – Final Leadership Reflections and Closing Thoughts – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    51 min
  4. Why Healthy Churches Need Better Systems with Tim Stevens

    May 20

    Why Healthy Churches Need Better Systems with Tim Stevens

    In this episode of Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil and Tyler welcome veteran executive pastor and leadership consultant Tim Stevens for an in-depth conversation on ministry leadership, organizational health, and sustainable service in the second chair. Tim reflects on nearly 40 years of ministry experience spanning nonprofit leadership, Granger Community Church, Vanderbloemen, Willow Creek, and now Leading Smart. The conversation explores the evolving role of the executive pastor, including the tension between being highly executive-minded versus deeply pastoral. Tim shares insights from his e-book 40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul, unpacking lessons about visionary leaders and integrators, why systems are actually pastoral tools, healthy governance, leadership burnout, and managing energy for long-term ministry health. Tim also gives listeners an inside look at stepping into Willow Creek during one of the church’s most difficult seasons and explains how focusing on “the next right thing” helped guide the rebuilding process.  Guest Resources 🗣️Follow Tim 📕40 Lessons in 40 Years: Wisdom for the Long Haul 💻 Right Roles Assessment💻LeadingSmart.com🎙️Tim’s Podcast 📅Leading Smart 2026 Gathering  From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS  04:05 Introducing Tim Stevens 07:18 Tim’s Ministry Journey and Leadership Background 10:18 Executive Pastor Wiring and Leadership Styles 13:42 40 Lessons in 40 Years 15:26 Why Visionary Leaders Need Integrators 18:01 Why Systems Are Pastoral 22:00 Sustainable Leadership and Managing Energy 26:06 Board Alignment and Healthy Governance 30:30 Leaving Church Ministry for Vanderbloemen and Leadership Consulting 34:10 Rebuilding Willow Creek Through Crisis 39:58 How Leading Smart Helps Churches Thrive – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    49 min
  5. How To Be Second with Nathan Young and Dave Hartman

    May 6

    How To Be Second with Nathan Young and Dave Hartman

    In this episode of the Backstage Pastors™️ Podcast, Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz welcome Nathan Young and Dave Hartman, co-authors of How to Be Second to discuss the identity, strengths, and challenges of second-chair leadership. The conversation explores why some leaders are uniquely wired for supporting roles, how executive pastors and operational leaders thrive, and why being second is not a stepping stone but a meaningful destination. Guest Resources 🗣️Follow David  🗣️Follow Nathan 📕How to Be Second by Nathan Young and Dave Hartman 💻How to Be Second website: howtobesecond.com  From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS 01:31 Phil’s Upcoming Church Projects and Travel 03:31 Introducing How to Be Second 06:00 Why Nathan and Dave Wrote the Book 10:00 Discovering the Identity of Second-Chair Leaders 17:17 The Difference Between “2s” and “2ICs” 24:23 Who the Book Is Really For 29:48 Imposter Syndrome and “Knowing What 10 Is” 33:07 What They Would Add to the Book Today 39:39 Final Encouragement and Resources – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    46 min
  6. Clay Scroggins on How to Lead When You're Not in Charge

    Apr 15

    Clay Scroggins on How to Lead When You're Not in Charge

    Phil Taylor interviews Clay Scroggins, former leader at North Point Community Church and author of How to Lead When You're Not in Charge. Clay shares his journey from engineering student to pastor, his experience serving in multi-site church leadership, and his transition into speaking and consulting. The conversation centers on leadership without authority—particularly relevant for executive pastors and second-chair leaders. Clay unpacks the myth that leadership requires a title and emphasizes influence as the true currency of leadership. He shares practical examples from both church and corporate environments, highlighting the importance of relational influence, emotional intelligence, and patience. They also discuss navigating organizational limitations, creating “pockets of greatness,” and leading oneself when broader change isn’t possible. Clay addresses the tension of ambition in ministry, distinguishing between selfish ambition and healthy, God-honoring drive. The episode also explores challenges like leading change in resistant environments, working under well-known leaders like Andy Stanley, and discerning when it’s time to stay or leave a role. The conversation is both practical and deeply reflective, offering encouragement and wisdom for leaders serving behind the scenes. Mentioned Event The XP Summit. Phil Taylor will be presenting at this year’s XP Summit. You can get your tickets at: xpsummit.org Guest Resources 🗣️Follow Clay  📕How to Lead When You're Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins 💻clayscroggins.com 💻“Should I Stay or Should I Go?” (audio resource by Clay Scroggins) From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS [04:00] – Clay’s Ministry Journey [11:00] – The Myth of Leadership Titles [17:20] – Authority vs. Influence [25:18] – Creating a Pocket of Greatness [29:00] – When to Stay or Leave a Role [33:00] – Healthy vs. Unhealthy Ambition [39:00] – Leading Change Without Authority [43:00] – Working Under a High-Profile Leader [47:00] – Final Encouragement & Resources – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.  Backstage Pastors™️ is a Registered Trademark

    53 min
  7. Kadi Cole on the Women’s XP Group and Developing Female Leaders

    Apr 2

    Kadi Cole on the Women’s XP Group and Developing Female Leaders

    In this episode, Kadi Cole joins the Backstage Pastors™️ to discuss her unexpected journey into ministry and her passion for developing female leaders in the church. She shares how her experience as often the only woman in leadership led to the creation of the Women Executive Pastor (WXP) Network, now supporting hundreds of women in executive roles. Kadi explains the importance of mentorship, coaching, and especially sponsorship—highlighting how women are often overlooked in leadership development due to systemic habits rather than theology. She challenges male leaders to rethink how they view and support female leaders, emphasizing equal access to development resources and opportunities. The conversation also explores the unique challenges women face in leadership, including isolation, lack of role models, and navigating expectations. Kadi encourages churches to intentionally create pathways for women to grow and remain in ministry long-term. Resources Mentioned 🗣️Follow Kadi 📕Developing Female Leaders by Kadi Cole 💻wxpastors.com (Women Executive Pastor Network) 💻https://kadicole.com 💻https://femalechurchleaders.com 🎙️Female Church Leaders Podcast   From Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at https://thechurchhub.org   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠  📚 ⁠Books by Phil⁠ 💻 ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠ 💻⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠ 💻 ⁠myxp.church⁠ 💻⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹 ⁠Youtube⁠ 🍏 ⁠Apple⁠ 🎤 ⁠Spotify CHAPTERS [00:45] Introducing Kadi Cole[02:00] An Unlikely Ministry Journey[04:00] Birth of Women Executive Pastors Network[06:00] The Power of Female Community[09:20] Why Women Need Dedicated Spaces[12:40] Supporting Women in Leadership Growth[17:00] Mentorship, Coaching & Sponsorship[24:00] What Male Leaders Often Miss[31:20] Encouragement to Stay in the Calling – – Editing and Support by The Good Podcast Co.

    37 min
  8. David Fletcher on Pastoral Compensation

    Mar 18

    David Fletcher on Pastoral Compensation

    In this episode of Backstage Pastors™️ Phil and Tyler sit down with David Fletcher, founder of XPastor.org, one of the most comprehensive resource hubs for executive pastors. David shares the origin story of his work, which began out of a lack of available research and has grown into a platform with thousands of resources and hundreds of thousands of annual users. The conversation explores practical tools available to executive pastors, including free courses, weekly webinars, and a robust salary database built from billions of dollars of church compensation data. David explains how churches can leverage this data for better, more objective compensation decisions and discusses the value of independent compensation studies. David is a wealth of knowledge gleaned from years of serving executive pastors — and from being one. Resources Mentioned 💻 ⁠⁠⁠XPastor.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠💲⁠Salary ForecasterFrom Our Partners 💻 ⁠The Church Hub⁠: The Church Hub serves pastors, ministry leaders, and their spouses through equipping and training resources. Learn more at ⁠⁠https://thechurchhub.org⁠⁠   Connect with Phil Taylor ✉️⁠⁠ ⁠Get Phil's Newsletter⁠⁠⁠ ✉️ ⁠⁠phil@backstagepastors.org⁠⁠ 🗣️⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@philtaylorxp⁠⁠⁠⁠  📚⁠⁠ ⁠Books by Phil⁠⁠⁠ 💻⁠⁠ ⁠backstagepastors.org⁠™️⁠⁠ 💻⁠⁠⁠plainjoestudios.com⁠⁠⁠  Connect with Tyler Drewitz ✉️ ⁠⁠tyler@myxp.church⁠⁠ 🗣️⁠⁠ ⁠⁠@tylerdrewitz⁠⁠⁠⁠ 💻⁠⁠ ⁠myxp.church⁠⁠⁠ 💻⁠⁠⁠ridgelineprinting.com⁠⁠⁠ The best way to support this podcast is to like, subscribe and share it with a friend. LIKE & SUBSCRIBE 📹⁠⁠ ⁠Youtube⁠⁠⁠ 🍏⁠⁠ ⁠Apple⁠⁠⁠ 🎤⁠⁠ ⁠Spotify⁠⁠ CHAPTERS 01:34 Introducing David Fletcher & XPastor.org07:29 The Origin Story of XPastor10:00 Free Resources for Executive Pastors12:00 Courses, Webinars & Getting Started14:11 Compensation Data & Salary Forecaster17:00 Why Churches Need Compensation Studies23:41 Benefits, Trends & Staffing Insights27:39 The Retirement Crisis for Pastors29:13 Innovation, AI & Leadership Mindset – – Editing and Support by ⁠⁠The Good Podcast Co.⁠⁠

    38 min
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About

The Backstage Pastors Podcast is dedicated to the unique challenges and opportunities facing executive pastors and second-chair leaders in churches and nonprofits. Hosts Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz share hard-earned insights and introduce listeners to diverse leaders doing meaningful work behind the scenes. Together, they offer practical, actionable conversations designed to strengthen the ministries and people they quietly support.

Information

  • Creator
    Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz
  • Years Active
    2025 - 2026
  • Episodes
    13
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Phil Taylor and Tyler Drewitz
  • Show Website
    The Backstage Pastors Podcast

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