SMB Community Podcast

Dave Sobel
  • 4.8 (12)
  • ENTREPRENEURSHIP
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Podcasts, articles, and reference materials for Managed Service Providers. Produced by MSP Radio

  1. Paying Techs Commissions: Best Practices and Pitfalls for MSPs

    4D AGO

    Paying Techs Commissions: Best Practices and Pitfalls for MSPs

    Compensation models for technical staff in MSPs require careful alignment with business objectives and operational capacity. Both James Kernan and Amy Babinchak emphasized that financial incentives such as commissions or bonuses can be appropriate when technicians are directly responsible for generating additional monthly recurring revenue (MRR) or securing new accounts. However, they noted that proper monitoring tools are essential to track productivity and ensure fairness—without adequate systems, variable compensation based on efficiency or project profitability can introduce operational risk and potential inequities. Supporting this, Amy Babinchak described implementing a tiered productivity incentive where technicians received additional pay for surpassing utilization rates above 80%, but expressed concern over excessive overtime. Both speakers underscored the necessity of clear job role definitions; rewarding sales activities for technical staff may be appropriate if it aligns with broader company goals and does not compromise core technical duties. Non-monetary recognition, such as trophies or gift cards for ticket resolution or utilization, was also mentioned as an effective, low-cost incentive. The episode expanded to analyze current challenges in industry education and vendor-driven events. Citing a survey from the "All Things MSP" group, Amy Babinchak reported that 86% of respondents believe MSP conferences are now allocating too much budget to entertainment at the expense of substantive educational content. Comments from participants indicated skepticism toward vendor-led sessions, noting that paid speaking slots are typically used for product promotion rather than useful training, raising questions about increasing conference costs and the dilution of actionable takeaways. Key operational topics included shifting preferences among AI tools, with both speakers confirming recent moves toward Claude and Copilot, and persistent debate over MSP documentation practices—ranging from ad-hoc tools like OneNote to industry solutions. The discussion concluded with an observation about payment processing costs: James Kernan highlighted a case where $24,000 in annual credit card fees significantly reduced firm profitability, stressing the importance of passing such costs on to customers or utilizing ACH to preserve margins. MSP leaders are encouraged to assess compensation structures, conference participation ROI, and vendor relationships in order to minimize risk, align incentives, and ensure operational resilience. Question of the week:  Should I pay my tech commissions? Rod Trent Substack: learning to talk to our apps https://rodtrent.substack.com/p/the-new-normal-talking-to-your-apps?r=h2641&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action   Do you think that MSP conferences are spending too much on entertainment and not enough on education?  All Things MSP survey   What is your favorite AI tool right now? Blog post: AI Image Generators Can Now Spell: https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/03/20/breaking-news-ai-image-generators-can-spell/   What tool do you use for Documentation? This is more for the smaller MSPs or internal IT folks not running something like IT Glue or Hudu. GitHub: https://github.com/       TALES FROM THE FIELD: Payment processing fees of 24K reviewing financials during valuation.  Alternative Payments and other payment automation firms help reduce/eliminate these fees by giving customers options for EFT or passing fees to them.https://www.alternativepayments.io/   UPCOMING CHANNEL EVENTS: Reinvent Telecom – May 12-14th, 2026 Mastermind Event – July 30-31st,2026 Amy’s Podcast Appearance Book Tour happening! Learn more about the book here: https://www.thirdtier.net/20-questions-every-msp-owner-asks-before-selling-their-business/                        Do you have a story from the field that you’d like to share? Or a question you’d like us to answer? Email it or send it as a voice memo or video to james@kernanconsulting.com, and we just might use it in an upcoming show. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    25 min
  2. Responding to Price Objections: Value Conversations and Consulting for MSPs

    APR 23

    Responding to Price Objections: Value Conversations and Consulting for MSPs

    A central theme of the episode is the challenge of communicating and defending pricing for managed services. Amy Babinchak and James Kernan described frequent client objections regarding cost, focusing on the importance of articulating clear value propositions. They noted that most client resistance either stems from an inadequate understanding of the provider’s value, or from attempts to negotiate lower pricing. Responding effectively requires MSPs to explain differentiators and to consciously decide whether a prospect aligns with their value-based approach. Supporting this discussion, Amy Babinchak argued that many MSPs risk commoditization by relying on standardized, transactional service offerings. She highlighted a shift toward consultative selling, emphasizing the need to focus on unique solutions—such as AI guidance and security enhancements—instead of basic recurring services. Both speakers remarked that as automation and AI become more prevalent, differentiation and consultation will increase in relevance and provide a pathway to sustained business models. Additional topics included emerging security threats related to USB drives. Amy Babinchak reported that widespread vulnerabilities, particularly in devices manufactured in China, have exposed businesses to high risks of malware via unencrypted firmware. She recommended MSPs phase out low-cost, unbranded memory sticks in favor of hardware with encrypted firmware, noting associated costs can be in the $100–200 range. The episode also addressed the responsibility for user security awareness training, with both hosts asserting that the MSP must ensure not only provision but active client engagement and outcome tracking, rather than relying solely on offering the service. The practical implications for MSPs and IT service providers lie in proactively managing client expectations, emphasizing measurable value, and maintaining vigilance regarding hardware supply chain risk. Providers are encouraged to improve governance by reviewing service portfolios, confirming active usage of bundled offerings, and conducting regular business reviews. Regarding security, due diligence in vendor management and sound end-user education policies are highlighted as essential components of operational risk reduction. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    23 min
  3. Building a $20 Million MSP: Insights from Brian Strong of TenHats

    APR 16

    Building a $20 Million MSP: Insights from Brian Strong of TenHats

    Managed Service Providers (MSPs) face measurable hurdles when scaling businesses past certain revenue thresholds, particularly the $10 million annual mark. The episode’s primary focus is the operational and sales methodologies implemented by Brian Strong, who reported helping lead an MSP from $2.2 million to $19 million in annual revenues over five years. This growth was attributed to instituting systematic sales processes, prioritizing revenue generation, and building organizational redundancy, which Strong identified as essential for sustaining and supporting large-scale managed services operations. Supporting this central narrative, Strong detailed specific challenges encountered, such as a company operating at a $300,000 monthly loss after an acquisition, with survival requiring accelerated sales volumes rather than cost-cutting alone. Growth strategies were based on methodical sales enablement, including tracking KPIs, transparent open-book management, and aligning hiring practices with the organization’s long-term scaling goals. Notably, Strong emphasized targeting larger accounts and developing specialized technical talent to build resilience and capabilities across departments. The conversation also addressed industry-wide patterns, noting that many MSPs remain “stuck” below the $10 million revenue band. According to Strong and Speaker B, a key obstacle is the lack of systems and staffing that enable owners to delegate daily operations and sales functions. Both speakers noted that relying solely on owner-operators impedes scale, and emphasized the need for targeted recruitment, standardized processes, and deployment of appropriate technologies to enable sustainable growth and improved customer service delivery. For MSPs and IT leaders, these discussions underscore the necessity of robust, replicable sales processes, transparent operational metrics, and talent strategies designed for organizational redundancy and scalability. Risks of stagnating at lower revenue levels include limited service capacity, inability to serve mid-market clients, and heightened vulnerability to market or talent disruptions. Organizations seeking to grow beyond these barriers must invest in their people, formalize their processes, and ensure leadership is accountable for both revenue generation and operational sustainability. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    22 min
  4. Why Your Business Is Worth More When You Are Not Involved in Daily Operations

    APR 9

    Why Your Business Is Worth More When You Are Not Involved in Daily Operations

    NinjaOne’s reported growth and positioning within the MSP software landscape presents a notable development for service providers evaluating vendor ecosystems. According to statements reviewed by Ryan Morris and Dave Sobel, NinjaOne claims an annual recurring revenue (ARR) exceeding $500 million, a valuation above $5 billion, and a customer base of more than 35,000. This self-reported data, while not independently verified due to NinjaOne’s private ownership, places the company within the top tier of platform providers for endpoint management, alongside ConnectWise and Kaseya. The expansion and platform focus suggest material choices ahead for MSPs considering stack consolidation, endpoint management, and integration requirements. Supporting analysis from Dave highlights trends in the categorization of platform players, noting shifts among vendors such as Enable, which is repositioning from the MSP infrastructure platform to the security domain. The discussion raises a technical consideration: the evolution from API-driven integration toward emerging orchestration standards such as MCP servers, though details from vendors remain limited. MSPs are advised to understand tier distinctions among platform providers and carefully assess how these shifts may affect integration, security posture, and operational alignment. Adjacent topics explored by the speakers include the risk and tradeoffs involved in vendor onboarding, M&A (mergers and acquisitions) processes, and the relevance of business continuity strategies. Ryan Morris and Dave Sobel critique extended, six-month vendor evaluation pipelines as potentially eroding competitive positioning in a landscape characterized by rapidly evolving technologies, especially AI-driven tools. Additionally, the episode revisits the skill set of the IT generalist, acknowledging that while specialist expertise remains essential in domains such as security, contemporary AI adoption demands generalist capabilities for validation, interpretation, and curation of technology outputs. The podcast asserts several operational takeaways for MSPs and IT leaders. Prioritizing process documentation and standardization enables scalability and business value beyond the presence of individual owners, as financial professionals weigh factors such as repeatability and owner-independence in valuation. Businesses should balance rigorous stack control with responsive, customer-centric experimentation, managing the pace of change in vendor portfolios and technologies. In M&A scenarios, the speakers caution against overly formulaic approaches, emphasizing contextual evaluation of fit and motivation to mitigate post-transaction dissatisfaction. Collectively, these themes stress the need for ongoing adaptation, systematized governance, and objective risk management in MSP operations. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    26 min
  5. Getting Margins Right: The Essential Mix of Recurring, Product, and Professional Services for MSPs

    APR 2

    Getting Margins Right: The Essential Mix of Recurring, Product, and Professional Services for MSPs

    The episode centers on profit margins and service mix strategies for MSPs, emphasizing the importance of maintaining recurring revenue margins above 50%, preferably targeting 65–70% for long-term sustainability. Industry averages indicate recurring revenue margins as low as 35%, which Speaker B and Speaker C note presents a risk to driving profit down to the bottom line. The discussion identifies that margins tend to erode with organizational growth due to overhead but underscores the necessity of regular price adjustments built into client contracts and regular scrutiny of margin performance as core practices to avoid financial shortfalls. Supporting these observations, Speaker C advises MSPs to gradually move from lower margin brackets to achieve at least 50% in recurring services, acknowledging this transition typically requires sustained effort over several years. For professional services, a margin range of 40–60% is considered attainable, with 50% as the practical target. Regarding income mix, respondents suggest 70% of revenue should derive from recurring services and the remaining 30% from professional or project-based work. Both speakers highlight that smaller MSPs may achieve higher margins, while competitive pressure and organizational complexity often erode these numbers. Adjacent discussions address operational and security challenges. The show covers recent FBI public service announcements warning of increased cyber threats originating from Russian and Iranian actors, specifically targeting government, political, and journalist entities. Speaker C and Speaker B recommend that MSPs communicate only the most relevant advisories to clients to avoid information overload, framing updates as evidence of service diligence rather than sources of alarm. In addition, Microsoft’s new AI security dashboard in Microsoft 365 is reviewed, which uses Defender sensors already present in Windows 11 devices to provide visibility into AI activity and configuration security at no extra cost, provided suitable licensing for Defender is in place. The operational implications for MSPs include the need for rigor in pricing models, clear partnership agreements, and transparent communications with clients about both technology changes and external threats. The recurring emphasis on risk management, margin preservation, and responsible client engagement reflects a harm-reduction mindset. Regular contract reviews, maintaining consultative relationships, and avoiding over-communication of security issues are presented as accountability measures that support stability and trust in MSP operations.Question of the week: What margins should I be targeting? And what is the mix that I should be shooting for? Recurring Professional services Product sales   Talking to clients about international affairs. The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) are jointly issuing this public service announcement (PSA) to warn the public about ongoing phishing campaigns by cyber actors associated with the Russian Intelligence Services (RIS) targeting commercial messaging applications. The activity targets individuals of high intelligence value, such as current and former U.S. government officials, military personnel, political figures, and journalists. https://www.ic3.gov/PSA/2026/PSA260320   The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) is releasing this FLASH to disseminate information on malicious cyber activity conducted by actors on behalf of the Government of Iran Ministry of Intelligence and Security (MOIS). Specifically, MOIS cyber actors are responsible for using Telegram as a command-and-control (C2) infrastructure to push malware targeting Iranian dissidents, journalists opposed to Iran, and other opposition groups around the world. This malware resulted in intelligence collection, data leaks, and reputational harm against the targeted parties. https://www.ic3.gov/CSA/2026/260320.pdf   New AI Security Dashboard for M365. Requires Defender onboarding to be effective  Check it out: https://AI.security.microsoft.com Learn: https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/blog/microsoft-security-blog/security-dashboard-for-ai---now-generally-available/449463   Amy’s class is now available for purchase at Coassemble.  This is her Create your AI Service Package.  The purpose of the course is to consider all of the things that you might want to include in your offering. https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/03/20/create-your-ai-management-package/  Coassemble: https://coassemble.com/c/0ZKD2Z Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    25 min

  6. MAR 26

    Do You Always Say Yes? MSP Sales, Partnerships, and Project Management

    Microsoft’s decision to increase pricing across its Microsoft 365 product suite, excluding Business Premium, is a notable development for MSPs and IT service providers managing client subscriptions and budgets. According to discussion on the SMB Community Podcast, the price hikes range from 8% to 30% across various plans and products, with only Business Premium escaping the adjustment while still adding new features. Microsoft is also expanding mailbox storage, with each mailbox now receiving an additional 50GB, raising the individual mailbox limit from 50GB to 100GB. Additional details provided in the podcast highlight that Microsoft Business Premium continues to receive feature enhancements without a corresponding rise in cost. Upcoming functional improvements include expanded AI capabilities for Microsoft Chat, which will offer agent-based access to documents and files within the user’s tenant. The licensing distinction is important: while the unlicensed version of Chat requires manual document uploads, the licensed version allows AI features to operate securely within the organization’s environment, keeping sensitive data contained and not exposed externally. The conversation also explored sales strategies and portfolio management for MSPs. Both hosts endorsed a harm-reduction approach to client engagement, advocating for saying “yes” to a broad range of customer needs to protect client relationships and avoid driving clients toward competitors. They noted that even if a requested service is outside of a provider’s core competencies, partnering with another vendor or project-managing the solution maintains client trust. Discussion further addressed the operational and valuation benefits of vertical specialization, particularly as MSPs grow beyond $2 million annual revenue, given higher buyer valuations for vertically focused firms. MSPs and senior IT leaders should review Microsoft’s pricing adjustments in detail to mitigate downstream risk for their own margins and client contracts. Decision-makers are advised to analyze service offerings and clearly communicate distinctions between licensed and unlicensed AI features to minimize operational and security risks. Adopting a client-aligned engagement model—being prepared to source or manage non-core solutions—can reduce customer churn but may also require revised processes for vendor selection, project management, and risk evaluation. Specializing in key client verticals may enhance firm value in acquisitions or exit scenarios.   Microsoft Community Days: https://www.communitydays.org/Find one coming to a city near you! How can MSPs better communicate their full service offerings?  Amy’s blog about saying yes: https://www.thirdtier.net/2024/04/02/amys-sayings-the-answer-is-always-yes/ Should MSPs have a VERTICAL MARKET FOCUS? MICROSOFT IN THE NEWS: Microsoft Suite prices (except for Business Premium) increases and no more grace period for your data https://www.sysdrive.net/two-microsoft-365-changes-coming-in-2026-that-every-business-should-know-about/ Microsoft Business Premium accounts get additional 50GB per mailbox https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/blog/2025/12/04/advancing-microsoft-365-new-capabilities-and-pricing-update/ Copilot Chat without a separate license will be able to see into Outlook and Office products. And work as agents. But you have to upload the data into them. Does not have the same level of protection as the licensed version. E3 and E5 are getting the Intune Suite. It’s a lot of device management features, but one of note is Remote Help. Restaurant Human Robot goes BERSERK in a Cupertino California after employee hit the wrong button https://www.thedailybeast.com/restaurant-staff-struggle-to-restrain-dancing-robot-causing-dining-room-chaos/   Resources and Events for MSPs:   Third Tier’s Continuing Education Program: https://www.thirdtier.net/2026/03/20/stop-drowning-in-m365-security-changes-join-our-continuing-education-program-for-admins-and-security-pros/                      Small Biz Thoughts Community for MSPs: www.smallbizthoughts.org Engage with us at www.smbcommunitypodcast.com Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    17 min
  7. Has M&A Activity for MSPs Picked Up in 2026?

    MAR 19

    Has M&A Activity for MSPs Picked Up in 2026?

    https://www.theinformation.com/articles/iran-war-imperils-300-billion-gulf-ai-spending?utm_campaign=article_email&utm_content=article-16718&utm_medium=email&utm_source=sg The war: The USA has bombed three data centers owned by Amazon. This is the first time I've seen data centers be targets. It won't be the last.  The war: Middle eastern countries have promised $300 billion in AI infrastructure investment. Some in their countries and some in ours. That investment is in  jeopardy now as the bombs fall.   Memory Costs Squeeze Entry-Level Hardware as Suppliers Capture Margin Upstream   Apple’s $599 MacBook Neo Signals a Split Hardware Strategy, Not a Budget Play   Big announcement from Microsoft. A long rumored and asked for E7 plan. Finally, Microsoft announced the Microsoft 365 E7 Frontier Worker Suite, also available from May 1, priced at $99 per user per month. The bundle combines Microsoft 365 E5—long the company’s premium business productivity suite—with Microsoft 365 Copilot and Agent 365. It also includes the Microsoft Entra Suite and advanced Defender, Intune, and Purview security capabilities. It'll sell for $99 . The $99 price is below what customers would pay if they purchased these capabilities separately, according to Microsoft. The component pricing of the constituent parts—E5 at $60, Entra Suite at $12, Copilot at $30, and Agent 365 at $15—adds up to $117 per user.   https://www.linkedin.com/news/story/openai-hardware-chief-resigns-over-rushed-pentagon-pact-7064308/?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_feed%3Bx3AKUbDJSbm6nGyejyaodg%3D%3D     UPCOMING CHANNEL EVENTS:     Mastermind LIVE Event – San Diego March 26-27th https://portal.kernanconsulting.com/mastermind-event Exclusive Small Biz Thoughts Community Members Live Workshop: How AI Helps MSP Radio Production…and Where It Doesn’t Help.  Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    17 min

  8. MAR 12

    Navigating Invisible Work: AI, Automation, and the Challenge of Proving Value as an MSP

    A significant risk area discussed is the challenge of “invisible work” in managed services due to increasing automation and the adoption of artificial intelligence (AI). Customers, according to participants, increasingly lack awareness of the work being performed on their behalf, which raises doubts about the value of services provided by MSPs. With prices for services escalating, clients are demanding higher-touch engagement and visibility into operations, creating a disconnect between automated backend activities and client expectations for tangible service. Supporting this, hosts cited the difficulties in proving the value of proactive prevention, such as security incidents that did not occur, and noted that with further automation, particularly through AI, this challenge will intensify. Customers may question why they continue to pay elevated fees if tasks can be completed by AI or low-cost competitors, amplifying price pressure and the potential for misaligned perceptions of value. Examples included references to the current technology stack, where some tools cost more to integrate and operate—particularly with new AI workloads—than previous turnkey supplier models, often with increased operational complexity and support risks. The episode addressed secondary risks stemming from overreliance on both small, unproven vendors and on large-scale automation. Hosts highlighted the volatility of new entrants in security and infrastructure, pointing out that many lack lifecycle support or robustness, making them unreliable partners for business-critical tasks. Recent events, such as the OpenAI boycott following its Department of Defense contract and operational disruptions at AI provider Claude, were used to illustrate instability among technology suppliers. The conversation also covered the risks of unchecked AI deployment, with examples from military and financial sectors where automation led to errors or was used to rationalize significant workforce reductions. The practical implications for MSPs and IT service providers center on maintaining transparency with clients, reassessing vendor risk (particularly with AI and new software providers), and calibrating expectations for automation. The hosts recommended reinforcing client communication regarding the nature and value of services, conducting due diligence on technology partners, and aligning automation strategies with operational risk management frameworks. Emphasis was placed on the need for ongoing human oversight, especially where automated decisions could lead to adverse outcomes, and on approaching AI adoption as a phase for careful experimentation rather than wholesale business transformation. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

    26 min
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About

Podcasts, articles, and reference materials for Managed Service Providers. Produced by MSP Radio

Information

  • Creator
    Dave Sobel
  • Years Active
    2019 - 2026
  • Episodes
    531
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © MSP Radio
  • Show Website
    SMB Community Podcast

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