The Pivot

Andrew Osenga

In an age of polarization and unyielding beliefs, the very idea of changing one’s mind can feel revolutionary. The Pivot with Andrew Osenga steps into this cultural moment, offering a space for honest, vulnerable, and intelligent conversations about the evolution of thought, belief, and life path. From personal growth to shifts in worldview, from navigating complex social issues to rediscovering spiritual truths, we’ll explore the courageous journey of re-evaluation. This isn’t about promoting indecision, but celebrating the wisdom found in intellectual humility and authentic transformation.

  1. Phil Vischer: Letting Go of Your Dream, and Asking “What’s Next?”

    21H AGO

    Phil Vischer: Letting Go of Your Dream, and Asking “What’s Next?”

    Creator of the beloved series VeggieTales Phil Vischer, whose influence impacted generations of children, joins The Pivot to talk about what happens when you build something incredible, only to watch it fall apart. Phil opens up about what to do when you discover that you’re not as important as you think you are, how to let God save you from your own ambition, and how to cope with devastating failure in order to turn around and build the life you were meant for—free from what others might think.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “All I wanted to do was make films and I wanted to be one of the good guys. And then I thought, Well, maybe I’m more than just a good guy who makes films. Maybe I’m like the next Walt Disney.” - Phil Vischer “I don’t like leading people. Which is a bad thing to discover after you’ve hired a whole bunch of people. So my management style tended to be, find the most competent person who liked to be in charge and make them in charge of all the people.” - Phil Vischer “You make a huge mistake when you decide that God needs you. Bad things happen.” - Phil Vischer “[I felt like] I wasn’t doing big things for God if I was curtailing my ambition, not expanding it. I had such a view of evangelical workaholism.” - Phil Vischer “The model I grew up with was if you’re enjoying life, you’re not trying hard enough. If you’re happy, you’re not doing it right. And finally, God got tired of watching me be that way.” - Phil Vischer “I wrote 80% of every line that came out of a vegetable’s mouth for ten years. So you become somewhat personally attached to the characters you’ve created and are bringing to life with your writing. And then, someone says ‘We don’t need you to write them anymore.’” - Phil Vischer “I realized that God was saving me from my ambition, that I was pushing a rock up a hill that He never asked me to push.” - Phil Vischer “What’s your life’s work going to look like? Who’s the model for your life’s work? We pick almost every model in the world except Jesus.” - Phil Vischer “We always talk about our successes in the church. We never talk about our failures.” - Phil Vischer “We’re trying to help a generation stay connected to their faith. To throw out the bathwater, but hang on to baby Jesus.” - Phil Vischer “I think a lot of people that have gone through what Phil has gone through could be bitter and angry, and I’m sure he had his moments. But I don’t get that from him now. I get a lot of wisdom and compassion and definitely curiosity and a sense of ‘What’s next?’” - Andrew Osenga   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: VeggieTales The Holy Post Walt Disney Experiencing God by Henry Blackaby Biola University Billy Graham Disneyland Willow Creek Community Church Christianity Today Moody Publishers Skye Jethani K-Love Jars of Clay Sixpence None the Richer  U2 Wheaton College Radio Switchfoot The Ed Sullivan Show Larry Norman Randy Stonehill Keith Green Angel Studios John Irwin Mike Nawrocki The Dead Sea Squirrels The Toy That Saved Christmas Blender The Apple Dumpling Gang Time Bandits Coen Brothers Wes Anderson O Brother, Where Art Thou? The Hudsucker Proxy Slumdog Millionaire   *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Phil Vischer’s website Phil Vischer’s Facebook Phil Vischer’s Instagram Phil Vischer’s X Phil Vischer’s YouTube   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    1h 14m
  2. 12/30/2025

    [ENCORE EPISODE] Ashley Cleveland: Get to Know My Dear Friend

    This episode with Ashley Cleveland came out in January 2018—the first time Andrew ever met Ashley. This interview had such a profound impact on Andrew that he’s referenced it again and again throughout the years, and we wanted to re-share it with you as we look to a New Year.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I quickly became an alcoholic and a drug addict, but I also became a musician. I started getting a positive response, whereas everything prior had been pretty negative. So I look upon it as this marker that God gave me to keep me on the planet.” - Ashley Cleveland “I knew less than anything about the industry. But a divide had been crossed, and suddenly I’m a songwriter. I dropped out of school after a couple of years and I went back to California and that’s really where I learned to be an artist. I cut my teeth in clubs.” - Ashley Cleveland “I wound up pregnant, very ill with my addiction, so I turned to the church. And I have to say the church responded deeply and wonderfully.” - Ashley Cleveland  “I couldn’t even cope with myself, let alone a child. And yet once I heard that heartbeat, I knew it was gonna be beyond me to give her up. Suddenly, there was someone else, and that was really the beginning of faith for me.” - Ashley Cleveland “I left that hospital knowing that there was a God and He loved me, though I had no earthly idea why.” - Ashley Cleveland “You take the art wherever you go. I’m so glad I had a career with a small C because what that meant for me in practical terms was I was home.” - Ashley Cleveland “For me, the best way to live is with my hands wide open and say, ‘Lord, you are the most surprising thing in my life.’” - Ashley Cleveland “I’m so thankful to be alive. Everything else is gravy.” - Ashley Cleveland   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Anchor Hymns Sally Lloyd-Jones Neil Young University of Tennessee Pam Tillis John Hiatt NACA (National Association of Campus Activities) Michael W. Smith Steven Curtis Chapman Rich Mullins Twenty Feet From Stardom C.S. Lewis   *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Ashley Cleveland’s Instagram Ashley Cleveland’s Facebook   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    1 hr
  3. A Chance to Rethink: 2025 Recap with Andrew Osenga

    12/23/2025

    A Chance to Rethink: 2025 Recap with Andrew Osenga

    Join Andrew for a really special end-of-the-year episode as he opens up about the creative work he put out in 2025. He shares some honest reflections about what he learned this year, what didn’t quite work out, and what he’s hoping to carry with him as we step into the new year. We’re talking about how to truly learn from those inevitable failures, seeing them as a chance to redesign the life we want, and the difficult but necessary process of letting things go. And, perhaps most importantly, he’s sharing why carving out space for both rest and community is so critical, especially when they’re the first things that tend to get sacrificed when life gets hectic. Here’s to another year of growing, changing, and simply being humans who make things.   Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “The truth is I made a lot of things for a long time that had no way to come out, and then they just sort of stacked up, and I was finally like, I’ve got to get this stuff out. I’ve got to just get these piles off the desk so I can do something else. And now I get the chance to start afresh.” - Andrew Osenga “We learn from our failures.” - Andrew Osenga “I love making music, but I also love having conversations and talking about ideas and just getting to talk to some of the most fascinating, incredible people.” - Andrew Osenga “When I tell you the people we have lined up to talk to next year, I literally cannot believe it. Some of my absolute heroes, authors and artists, people that I could not believe said yes. I am so excited and nervous. It’s going to be so fun.” - Andrew Osenga “Alison, my wife, is dealing with cancer, and that’s a long, long, long journey. It’s still really hard. She’s doing a little bit better than a year ago, and we’re really grateful for that. I thank you so much for your prayers.” - Andrew Osenga “I need to find some things I can let go of. I hear other people’s stories, and what you find over and over and over is that community is so important and rest is so important. And when we get busy and spin too many plates, the things that immediately disappear are community and rest.” - Andrew Osenga “We isolate and we ignore the Sabbath and we work, work, work by ourselves. That’s what I do. And all of the sudden, I start to think that I’m the reason everything is working or not working, I can do it all by myself, everything hinges on me, and it doesn’t. I start trusting in myself and not God. I’m leaning on myself and not those around me.” - Andrew Osenga “This is a good time of year where you just have to pause a little bit and you get a chance to rethink, look at your schedule, look at your priorities, look at the things you’re planning on doing, and say, ‘What can I stop? How can I reschedule my time?’” - Andrew Osenga   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Amen. 30 Days of Prayers from the Headwaters by Andrew Osenga Anchor Hymns Sandra McCracken Charlie Peacock Samford University    *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    26 min
  4. The People Who Shape Us: Jasmine Mullen

    12/16/2025

    The People Who Shape Us: Jasmine Mullen

    Lead singer of The New Respects and author Jasmine Mullen joins The Pivot for a walk down memory lane, revisiting a beautiful childhood, the band members who turned into family, and a unique form of childhood rebellion: playwriting (and yes, they talk about her adorable play about how the star of Bethlehem was chosen). Jasmine and Andrew reminisce about their younger selves, when Andrew was first working at a record company and met Jasmine, when neither of them knew what they were doing. Jasmine opens up about the strong bonds that have shaped her life and career, and made her into who she is today.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “All my childhood years were in this house. It’s my favorite place in the world. It’s so beautiful, it’s in the middle of nowhere. Last night when I was driving here there was a cow in the middle of the road. It’s kind of chaotic, but it’s really sweet.” - Jasmine Mullen  “Whenever I think of my mom, like in the fullness of herself, I think about her riding. There’s a huge hill in the backyard. She would ride down that hill on her horse bareback, and she was so cool.” - Jasmine Mullen “Growing up, there’s a house on the hill to the right, and my mom’s mom and her dad lived in that house. Then my dad’s parents lived right across the street. And it was just so awesome, they were the best ever. God set me up so well with grandparents who are like storybook grandparents. I look back and I’m just like, ‘Lord, what a gift, what a blessing to have that kind of support that close.’” - Jasmine Mullen “Darius Fitzgerald, Zandy Mowry, and I are family friends. We were raised together, kind of like family.” - Jasmine Mullen “The word ‘friend’ was heavier to me than the word ‘family’ because it was something that you choose, and family just happens to you. Friendship is something that you can build on.” - Jasmine Mullen “I was always super rebellious about not wanting to be in music because both of my parents are in music. So my form of rebellion was, ‘I’m going to write plays.’” - Jasmine Mullen   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: The New Respects band Ben Washington Is the Newbie on the Block by Jasmine Mullen Ben Washington Is the Odd Man Out by Jasmine Mullen Anchor Hymns Brooke Fraser Carly Bannister “God of This City” by Chris Tomlin Tyler Perry   *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Jasmine Mullen’s website Jasmine Mullen’s Facebook Jasmine Mullen’s Instagram Jasmine Mullen’s X    Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    1h 13m
  5. Reconciling Chronic Pain and Faith: Liuan Huska

    12/09/2025

    Reconciling Chronic Pain and Faith: Liuan Huska

    Writer and speaker Liuan Huska joins this episode of The Pivot to share her studies on anthropology and her venture into journalism, as well as her book on reconciling chronic pain and illness with faith. Liuan shares about her family’s year-long travels through South America, her work with Christian conservation organization A Rocha, and reflects on how to find wholeness in the middle of life’s challenges.   Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I just got more and more concerned about environmental issues, just being a human in this world today and noticing things and being sad about pollution and the way that humans have impacted creation in a negative way.” - Liuan Huska “I had this image of God where He has to act in this certain way for me to maintain a relationship with Him. I had to let go of my images of who God is and what God does in the world.” - Liuan Huska “If we pray and it matters to God, but it doesn’t actually make the tangible difference we thought it was going to make, then what difference does it make to engage with God and continue this personal relationship where we expect God to respond?” - Liuan Huska  “We have the ability to make a life for ourselves in different places and we can figure things out. You can go anywhere and really plug in and find community.” - Liuan Huska  “It has sometimes just hurt my heart to see that caring for the earth sometimes seems to be treated like an enemy of the church politically sometimes. We are called so clearly in the Scripture to care for the world, to care for the earth. And you look around you and think, This is a gift from God, why would we not want to steward it well?” - Andrew Osenga    Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Hurting Yet Whole by Liuan Huska A Rocha International Liuan Huska’s Substack, Becoming Whole  University of Chicago Christianity Today U.S. Environmental Protection Agency Disappointment with God by Philip Yancey Parker Palmer My South American Classroom by Liuan Huska  Catherine McNiel Eugene Peterson  Behold the Lamb of God 2025     *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Liuan Huska’s website Liuan Huska’s Facebook Liuan Huska’s Instagram    Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    57 min
  6. Good Theology Meets Good Storytelling: Beth Felker Jones

    12/02/2025

    Good Theology Meets Good Storytelling: Beth Felker Jones

    On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by Beth Felker Jones, writer and professor of theology at Northern Seminary, and the mastermind behind the Church Blogmatics Substack, where she explores theological themes through storytelling. Beth shares about her journey to becoming a professor, her approach to teaching topics like sexuality to her students and what she’s learned by listening to their stories, and her perspective on the personal nature of our relationship with God.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I remember quite early in my life wishing I had a cool, dramatic conversion story. I knew that was a thing Christians had and that they were beautiful to tell, and I didn’t have one. I think it took me a while to grow up in the truth, and that’s okay.” - Beth Felker Jones “While dramatic conversion stories are really beautiful, so is the way God draws us near in quiet and domestic settings. It doesn’t have to be fireworks for God to be at work. It’s the same God.” - Beth Felker Jones  “Family is maybe the number one form of evangelism.” - Andrew Osenga “I love how stories draw us in, and I think that Scripture is primarily a story, a true story. God is at work in love for the world, and Scripture invites us to live in that story and to imagine our lives through that story.” - Beth Felker Jones “We learn from [stories]. We learn to consider the lives of others, and we learn about love and grace and the way sin works in the world.” - Beth Felker Jones “I think a lot of people walk out the door of the church because they’ve heard songs that tell them that God is one thing that He’s not, or that doesn’t give space for their suffering or doubt.” - Andrew Osenga  “I learn from my students here. They tell me beautiful stories about falling to the bottom, about their lives falling apart, about a deep hurt that they never thought would come, and about how God has been with them and uses them to bear witness through those troubles.” - Beth Felker Jones “I suspect that every culture has its inherent beauties and its characteristic tendencies to sin. We can claim the beauties and fight the sin. But culture by itself isn’t just this big, bad thing. Often, it’s beautiful. God loves people and the world and art and thought and all the things that make up culture. God doesn’t throw those out, God redeems them.” - Beth Felker Jones  “I don’t think it’s an accident that the Bible uses marriage, human marriage, as a metaphor for our relationship with God. It’s not the only metaphor, but there are some real ways in which we can learn about one from the other.” - Beth Felker Jones “I am not of the school which thinks the point of theology is to logically prove all things and line everything up in neat rows. I think theology is more like a poem in that we’re using a really beautiful thing, language, to point to something beyond God, who cannot be fully captured in our language, but who nonetheless has chosen words to communicate with us.” - Beth Felker Jones   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Why I Am Protestant by Beth Felker Jones Church Blogmatics Substack  (Check out Andrew’s guest appearance on Beth’s Substack in December!)  Northern Seminary Kirk Cameron C.S. Lewis Psalms G.K. Chesterton Pope Gregory I (Gregory the Great)   *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Beth Felker Jones’ website Beth Felker Jones’ Facebook Beth Felker Jones’ X Beth Felker Jones’ Instagram    Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    48 min
  7. Claude Atcho: The Value in Starting Over

    11/25/2025

    Claude Atcho: The Value in Starting Over

    Pastor and author Claude Atcho joins The Pivot to discuss the challenging transition from a large, established church to a smaller, new gathering. He explains how this move required him to shed the role of a seasoned veteran and embrace starting over as a newbie. Claude shares insights into the difficulties of driving significant change for one’s family, especially when the decision seems counterintuitive on paper, and offers advice on prioritizing learning and growth over the comfort of established competence.   Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “I remember as a kid really enjoying going to the library, just enjoying the fact that people are creative and they’ve taken the time to capture stories, write them down, or tell somebody else’s story.” - Claude Atcho  “Books mark different transitions in my life.” - Claude Atcho  “Growing up, I loved sports, and came to the realization that most young boys have; Oh, being a pro athlete is probably not in the cards for me. And what does that mean? How do I experience that transition of my future, this taste of realism? How do I find my place in things?” - Claude Atcho  “I wanted to write [my book] for Christians who wanted to think about both literature and how literature can form us and how story matters and can form us, particularly when we put stories in conversation with a story of the kingdom.” - Claude Atcho  “There’s something unique about story and language and it can do something in us that sometimes other things can’t do.” - Claude Atcho “I think I can use competence as a shield to protect myself from feeling out of control or vulnerable. Starting as a learner, I had to be present to everything in a new way, and I think that was good for me. I’m still learning to do that.” - Claude Atcho  “Major transitions happen in people’s lives all the time, I think I was just not aware of that. I feel like, Oh, I’ll do this forever. No I won’t. I hope to have a good long run wherever I go, but this is happening all the time.” - Claude Atcho “Rhythms of relationship with Jesus are a way to remind ourselves that this is not a place to be ultimately comfortable, but that we find comfort with Him.” - Andrew Osenga   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: Reading Black Books by Claude Atcho  Rhythms of Faith by Claude Atcho  The Picture of Dorian Gray by Oscar Wilde  Chicago Bulls Seattle Mariners Dr. Henry Cloud D. Michael Lindsay *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links:  Claude Atcho’s website Claude Atcho’s X Claude Atcho’s Instagram   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    57 min
  8. Andrew Torrance: Where Science Meets Spiritual Understanding

    11/18/2025

    Andrew Torrance: Where Science Meets Spiritual Understanding

    On this episode of The Pivot, we’re joined by Andrew Torrance, Professor of Theology and Co-Director of the Logos Institute for Analytic and Exegetical Theology. Andrew shares about his work with the Scientists in Congregations program that opens up avenues for conversations between faith and scientific communities to learn how they can work together for a better understanding of the world and of our place in it.    Thought-Provoking Quotes:  “[Science] is not a threat to faith, but it’s something that can really be an important part of the life of the church.” - Andrew Torrance “There’s ways in which science actually exposes the many mysteries that confront the human understanding rather than resolving all of them.” - Andrew Torrance  “What does it mean to be a human that’s been created in the image of God? What are the ways in which human beings are unique in the world?” - Andrew Torrance “I just love the outdoors. I think that’s what really attracted me towards science, just really trying to understand the natural world in which we find ourselves.” - Andrew Torrance  “How do we think about the relationship between the brain and understanding? Are these two things distinct from one another? There are a lot of psychologists today that want to say we’re purely physical beings, and there’s some that want to recognize that our brain is accompanied by a mind. Human consciousness and our understanding isn’t reducible to the physical brain processes. There’s unique qualities that distinguish the two.” - Andrew Torrance   Links, Products, and Resources Mentioned: St. Andrews University  Joe Rogan Scientists in Congregations  Søren Kierkegaard Karl Barth *Watch this interview on Andrew’s YouTube channel!   *All episode music is by Andrew Osenga.    Guest’s Links: Andrew’s St. Andrews University page   Connect with Andrew:  Website YouTube Substack Spotify Facebook Instagram How to Remember by Andrew Osenga Hold the Light by Andrew Osenga   *The Pivot is produced in conjunction with Four Eyes Media.

    55 min
4.9
out of 5
330 Ratings

About

In an age of polarization and unyielding beliefs, the very idea of changing one’s mind can feel revolutionary. The Pivot with Andrew Osenga steps into this cultural moment, offering a space for honest, vulnerable, and intelligent conversations about the evolution of thought, belief, and life path. From personal growth to shifts in worldview, from navigating complex social issues to rediscovering spiritual truths, we’ll explore the courageous journey of re-evaluation. This isn’t about promoting indecision, but celebrating the wisdom found in intellectual humility and authentic transformation.

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