The Third Thing

Michelle Koffler & Danyelle Caruthers
  • 5.0 (20)
  • Relationships

A podcast Hosted by Michelle & Danyelle: a coach and a therapist, an interracial and queer best friend pair of 26 years. The Third Thing is where we are naming and confronting the topics that challenge us in platonic relationships. On friendship and race, money, sobriety, politics, when we drift or breakup, and the jealousy nobody admits to. Each week we spill the tea from our hurdles, and offer up the tools we’ve learned along the way. 

  1. 2d ago ·  Video

    S2E21: Astrology & Friendship Compatibility (pt 1): Reading Your Natal Chart

    Ever wonder why you and your best friend are perfectly in sync in person, but somehow every text thread turns into a small fire? There might be a cosmic reason. In Part 1 of our astrology episode, Danyelle (therapist, tarot reader, resident witch) walks Michelle through the natal chart as a tool for friendship. This isn’t a 101, officially. It’s the two of us pulling out our charts, breaking down the Big Six, and getting honest about where our placements make us a dream team and where they make us butt heads. Astrology won’t excuse bad behavior or replace therapy, but it can give you one more piece of the puzzle, and a lot more grace for the people you love. In This Episode What a natal chart is, and why your birth time and place matterOur first brushes with astrologyThe four elements as a shortcut: what happens when air meets fire, or water meets earthThe Big Three (sun, rising, moon), through Danyelle’s Sag/Gemini/Cancer and Michelle’s Aries/Capricorn/AriesWhen your friend’s friends turn out to be a fun house mirror of youVenus, Mars, and Mercury (makes up the big six): the planets of love and values, conflict and action, and communicationGrace as a newer arrival after a quarter century of friendshipReflection Questions Which elements show up most in your chart and in your closest friend’s? How do they work together?Is there a friend whose communication style always seems to clash with yours? What would shift if you assumed you were speaking different languages rather than coming at each other?Are you resonating more with your sun, moon, or rising right now?Where could a little more grace live in your friendships?Resources Mentioned Ghost of a Podcast with Jessica LanyadooCo-Star, The Pattern, and Time Passages appsPart 2 drops next week: generational placements, what bubbled up for us, and The Pull. Connect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod  🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com  🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. Support the show

  2. Oct 15 ·  Video

    S2E20: Weddings Make People Weird - Navigating Traditions, Money, & Drama

    You got the invite to be in the wedding party, and you said yes before you knew what you were signing up for: the matching robes, the bachelorette weekend, the speech, and a group chat with people you’ve never met who all love the bride as much as you do. Or you didn’t get asked to be maid of honor, and you’re finding a way to smile through it. Weddings are love days. They are also full of drama. In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle look back on their years as maids of honor, bridesmaids, and guests, and ask why these milestones bring out our insecurities. The answer comes back to the work we’ve done all season: knowing what’s really yours to carry, holding your boundaries, and letting the day be about love instead of ranking your friendship. In This Episode Danyelle’s year of seven weddings, including walking her brother down the aisleBeing maid of honor at a venue in Moab that was nowhere near readyThe 26-person joint bachelorette in New Orleans, and the conflict behind the scenesDanyelle shares how it felt not to be named maid of honor, nine years laterMichelle’s first time as maid of honor, and what happens when money and class shape the plansWhy declining a bridesmaid invite can be honest and kind (but still hard)Why you should name a maid of honor or give everyone a clear jobThe Pull: Queen of Cups, on holding all of the emotions without becoming themReflection Questions When have you felt ranked by a friend’s wedding, and what story did you tell yourself about it?What do you really have to give as part of a wedding party? Money, time, or energy? Where might you set clear expectations about what your limitations are? If you’re the one getting married, how can you make sure everyone knows they matter to you, even if they aren’t in the bridal party?What might change if you let go of how the day “should” go?Connect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and join the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other across difference. Support the show

  3. Oct 8 ·  Video

    S2E19: It's Not If, It's When: Mental Health in Friendship

    Your friend cancels again. They go quiet for a week. Or you're the one who has to text "I can't make it today" for the third time this month. Mental health is already living in your friendships, whether anyone has named it or not. This week, Danyelle leads a conversation about what happens when we stop trying to fix each other and start learning to sit with it. We talk about the "pick yourself up by your bootstraps" mindset, why the urge to give advice is often about our own comfort, and how saying "it's not if, it's when" changed the way we show up for each other as friends and co-founders. Michelle also shares about a dear friend who died from an ED, and what it means to love someone through an illness you can't fix. In This Episode Why one in five people living with a mental health condition means it's in every friendshipDanyelle on living with ADHD and chronic illness, and asking for graceHow "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" and 9-to-5 culture shape what we expect from our bodiesWhy fixing a friend is often about making ourselves feel safeWhen two neurospicy brains don't mix, and how to name itAnxious attachment and taking someone's struggle personallyGrief that holds anger, sadness, and love at onceWhy listening beats advice about 19 times out of 20The Pull: Ace of PentaclesReflection Questions Where might the thing that's annoying you about someone be an invitation to get curious about what's going on for them?When you're struggling, what do you need most from your friends: advice, company, or silence?Is there something you've been carrying alone that a friend could help you hold?Resources Mentioned Tema Okun, "White Supremacy Culture" characteristicsadrienne maree brownIreland's Basic Income for the Arts pilotIf this episode brings something up: call or text 988 (Suicide & Crisis Lifeline), or contact the National Alliance for Eating Disorders helpline at (866) 662-1235Connect With Us Instagram: @thethirdthingpod Website, workbooks, and episode notes: www.thethirdthingpod.com Join the community on Patreon: www.patreon.com/TheThirdThingPod Support the show

  4. Oct 1 ·  Video

    S2E18: Can Men and Women Really Be Friends? Unpacking the Trope

    Can Men and Women Really Be Friends? The short answer is yes. The longer answer is where it gets interesting. When Harry Met Sally told a whole generation that "sex always gets in the way", and the friends-to-lovers pipeline has been reinforcing that idea ever since. So what happens to the real, full-body love you feel for a friend when the culture says that kind of intimacy only belongs to romance? Flip it between queer and hetero relationships or gender expressions, and suddenly a weekend away with your friend's partner looks very different. This week Danyelle and Michelle go past the Mars-and-Venus version of this question and look at what's underneath it: where attraction lives in platonic love, why so many men are starved for touch and emotional connection, how race and body size shape who gets read as "safe" or "a threat," and how queerness opened up ways of loving each other that the usual scripts never allowed. In This Episode Why the real question isn't about gender but about how intimate is "too intimate"When Harry Met Sally, Seinfeld, and the media that taught us sex ruins friendshipWhere attraction lives in platonic love, and how you can nurture itThe therapist advice that stuck: not every need has to be met by your partnerRelationship anarchy and defining relationships as sexual or non-sexualWhy men are often under-touched and discouraged from naming emotional needsWho carries the labor of friendship in heteronormative householdsQueerplatonic love, a queerplatonic ex-wife, and why a bestie and a wife sharing an Airbnb every football season worksTarot pull: Ace of Swords reversed, on the fear of trying something new in how we communicateReflection Questions Where are your boundaries around intimacy rooted in fear, and where could they be more expansive?Is there a need you've expected your partner to meet that a friend could help fill?Do you let yourself have a crush, a long hug, or held hands with someone you're not partnered with?What would it take to tell your partner, "I'm needing a kind of intimacy we don't have"?Resources Mentioned Chanaye Kendall-Jackson, educator on polyamory, ethical non-monogamy and relationship anarchyOur Boundaries workbook, available at thethirdthingpod.comSupport the show

  5. Sep 24 ·  Video

    S2E17: What to Do When You Don't Like Your Friend's Partner

    Every relationship or friend group has had this moment: your favorite person is dating someone you can't stand. Maybe it's just a values mismatch, or maybe it's something heavier from controlling behavior to verbal abuse, or worse. Either way, the question is the same: what's actually your job here, and where's the line between being a good friend and trying to run someone else's relationship? This week Danyelle and Michelle share the times they got this wrong, one who stayed quiet, one who rallied a full "intervention" campaign, and spoiler alert - neither ended up well. From there, they map out what actually helps: leading with curiosity instead of judgment, naming impact instead of verdicts, and knowing when "I don't love your partner" needs to become a real safety conversation. In This Episode Why "I don't click with your partner" usually isn't yours to fix or fully voiceThe therapist line, "They're the unit now", that uno-reversed Michelle's planLeading with impact on you ("I feel uncomfortable when...") instead of judgment of themWhy you're allowed to set limits on time together without trying to end the relationshipThe psychology of why we're drawn to familiar, sometimes unhealthy, relationship patternsHow to name concerning behavior without ultimatums or forcing a choiceSetting up a code word or safety check-inNational Domestic Violence Hotline: 1-800-799-7233, text START to 88788, or chat at thehotline.orgReflection Questions Is my discomfort about their safety, or about my own values and preferences?Am I trying to help my friend, or trying to be right?Have I made it safe for my friend to come to me if things get worse?Where's a boundary I could set for myself instead of trying to change their relationship?Resources Mentioned Our Boundaries workbook — available at thethirdthingpod.comNational Domestic Violence Hotline — 1-800-799-7233 / text START to 88788 / thehotline.orgConnect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other going. Support the show

  6. Sep 17 ·  Video

    S2E16: Are You a Good Friend to Yourself? On Self-Abandonment and People-Pleasing

    You already know how to show up for a friend: feed them a home cooked meal, celebrate their wins or birthdays, meet their tears with grace. Now flip it around and look at how you treat yourself when no one's watching. This episode moves from the external work of friendship into the internal: what's actually happening in your nervous system when you people-please, fawn, or go quiet to keep the peace. Danyelle and Michelle break down people-pleasing as a form of self-abandonment, trace it back to IFS "parts" and protector instincts, and get honest about where they still do it from bridesmaid budgets to bracing for a partner walking through the door. In This Episode Why people-pleasing in friendship is often self-abandonment in disguiseIFS parts work: how protective parts formed to keep you safe, and why they can outlive their usefulnessFight, flight, freeze, and fawn: naming fawning as a nervous system response, not a personality traitReal stories: avoidance as a people-pleasing pattern, the maid-of-honor budget squeeze, and the "jolt off the couch" reflexChoosing a restaurant as a low-stakes place to practice saying what you actually wantThe pause-and-reframe tool for catching yourself mid-patternHow secure, "I got you" friendship still leaves room to say what isn't workingTarot pull: Knight of Wands — charging forward while staying in communication with yourselfReflection Questions Where in your life does people-pleasing show up as avoidance rather than agreement?What's one relationship where you'd benefit from naming a feeling out loud instead of letting it build?If your best friend heard your internal dialogue about yourself, would they recognize it as kind?Where do you already have a boundary you haven't set yet?Resources Mentioned "No Bad Parts" by Richard C. SchwartzTTT workbooks on attachment style, non-violent communication, and boundaries — available at thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us 📸 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website: TheThirdThingPod.com 🎧 Join our Patreon community for monthly events, deeper conversations, early access, workbooks, and more. If this episode resonated with you, share it with a friend and leave a rating or review. It helps more people find the show and keeps the conversation about friendship, growth, and what it means to show up for each other going. Support the show

  7. Sep 10 ·  Video

    S2E15: "I Give More Than I Get" - On One Sided Friendship

    Everybody has that friend who remembers the birthdays, plans the trips, sends the text first or the friendship where they're the one always reaching out (which one are you?). Naming that out loud feels uncomfortable no matter which side you're on. But what if the imbalance you're keeping score of isn't actually about being cared for less? Michelle and Danyelle get into one-sided friendships and offer up a unique framework: over-functioning invites under-functioning, and neither role is good or bad. Rather, they're often trauma responses playing out in real time. Danyelle traces her under-functioning back to staying small and not taking up space; Michelle traces her over-functioning back to her mom's constant giving and a lifelong need to prove she's worthy of love. They connect this to attachment styles from Season 1, talk honestly about a friend who went quiet on Michelle for two months, and dig into capacity...how illness, parenthood, and life stage all shape what each person can actually show up with, and why that's not the same as how much they care. They close on delegation, love languages (and why Michelle can't stand that term), and a Tower-and-Sun pull about what has to fall apart before things get lighter. In This Episode: The framework: over-functioning invites under-functioning, and both are often nervous system responsesTracing over/under-functioning back to childhood and family patternsConnecting this to attachment styles — anxious and over-functioning, avoidant and under-functioningA real-time story: reaching out to a friend six times over two months with no response, and choosing not to take it personallyCapacity as a spectrum, and why it's not a measure of loveChronic illness, capacity, and living in a world that assumes able-bodiednessLearning to ask for what you need instead of resenting what isn't givenClosing tarot pull: The Tower and The SunReflection Questions: Are you the over-functioner or the under-functioner in most of your friendships and does that shift depending on who you're with?Is there a friendship where you've been keeping score without saying so out loud?Where in your life is capacity, not love, the real limiting factor?Resources Mentioned: Lena Dunham's Fame SickThe Third Thing workbooks: thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us: 📍 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website + workbooks: thethirdthingpod.com 💛 Join the community on Patreon Support the show

  8. Sep 3 ·  Video

    S2E14: Why Making Friends as an Adult Feels So Hard (And What Actually Helps)

    You haven't had to walk into a room and introduce yourself in years, and then suddenly you do, and every old insecurity shows up at once. Making friends as an adult isn't just logistically harder than it was in middle school or college. It's a different game entirely, and most of us are playing it without ever being taught the rules. In this episode, Michelle and Danyelle break from their usual format to turn the lens outward: why does adult friendship take so much more intention than the friendships we made growing up? They trace the structures that used to make connection automatic, school, dorms, shared schedules, and what happens once those structures disappear. Danyelle tells the full story of her friendship with Bex, from a "let's hang out" that almost got written off as small talk to a bond that's now a business partnership and chosen family. Michelle gets honest about seeing herself as the sidekick instead of the main character, and how that story quietly shaped who she let close. Together, they get into the parts of us that show up to protect us in new rooms, the real fear underneath rejection, and how to actually shift the narrative before you walk in. In This Episode: Why the structures that made childhood friendship easy don't exist in adulthoodDanyelle's story of meeting Bex and the moment she realized "let's hang out" was realThe "sidekick vs. main character" narrative and how it shapes who you let inParts work: understanding the protector parts that show up when you enter new roomsReframing the fear of rejection — and giving yourself permission to leaveClosing tarot pull: the Six of Pentacles, reversedReflection Questions: What's the story you tell yourself walking into a room full of strangers?Where in your life are you still waiting for someone else to reach out first?Six of Pentacles, reversed, is about resistance to receiving — where might that show up for you in friendship?Resources Mentioned: The Third Thing workbooks: thethirdthingpod.comConnect With Us: 📍 Instagram: @thethirdthingpod 🌐 Website + workbooks: thethirdthingpod.com 💛 Join the community on Patreon Support the show

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5
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About

A podcast Hosted by Michelle & Danyelle: a coach and a therapist, an interracial and queer best friend pair of 26 years. The Third Thing is where we are naming and confronting the topics that challenge us in platonic relationships. On friendship and race, money, sobriety, politics, when we drift or breakup, and the jealousy nobody admits to. Each week we spill the tea from our hurdles, and offer up the tools we’ve learned along the way. 

Information

  • Creator
    Michelle Koffler & Danyelle Caruthers
  • Years Active
    2026
  • Episodes
    22
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2026 The Third Thing
  • Show Website
    The Third Thing

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