What Matters Most

John W. Martens
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  • CHRISTIANITY
  • UPDATED BIWEEKLY

What Matters Most is focused on listening to people and what is on their minds, particularly dealing with the big questions of religion and spirituality. It emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement, a Centre at St. Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, but our programming is intended for all interested parties, Catholic or not. In the What Matters Most podcast, we talk to people, some well-known, some not so well-known, some Catholic, some Christian, some not affiliated with any religion, some affiliated with other faiths (Muslims, Sikhs) to find out what matters to them. It is a podcast focused on spirituality and faith, but truly focused on listening to others, to learning from those connected to the Church and to those who are not. It is grounded in personal conversations that ask guests to talk about what has motivated their vocations or their work and what gives their lives meaning and purpose. The format can best be described as a conversation that allows us to get to know our guests.

  1. 4D AGO

    "Soulwork:"Decolonizing and Indigenizing the Curriculum: A Conversation with Dr. Judith Scholes and Dr. Nick Olkovich

    Welcome to Episode 16 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Judith Scholes and Dr. Nick Olkovich.  This episode focuses on decolonizing curriculum and indigenizing curriculum, and what that means particularly at Catholic colleges on Musqueam land at a large public university, UBC.  Today's podcast introduces us to a Wabash grant that Judith and Nick are directing, Exploring Pedagogies of Social Justice, Decolonization, and Indigenization in a Canadian Catholic Context, that has been active at Corpus Christi College and St. Mark's College since 2024 and will be completed in 2026. This grant is from the Wabash Center for Teaching and Learning in Theology and Religion. There are three overarching questions the grant seeks to engage: How can religion and theology faculty take a leadership role in articulating the pedagogical implications of the priorities in our Strategic Plan, especially the commitments to dialogue, social justice and civic engagement? How can we create opportunities for diverse voices across disciplines to come together, listen, and learn from one another? How might our unique context in Vancouver, British Columbia and on Coast Salish territory teach us how to listen and learn more openly, more reflexively, and more often? Dr. Judith Scholes and Dr. Nick Olkovich introduce us to the complexity of these questions and why it is essential for all of us to engage these questions.  How do we understand decolonization, indigenization, and reconciliation? "We're not trying to include the other on our own terms," as Nick said. We want to move away from, indeed reject, ways of knowledge that in practice consider some people as inferior to others, as Pope Francis discussed in Laudato Si' and Querida Amazonia, and that consider there to be one, true culture in the world. We all need to be listening to and learning from others, especially in our context indigenous peoples.  This is a process that is constantly unfolding, undoing colonial practices and determining what we do in their place. Some of the things we can do is center indigenous voices, and learn from them on their land. And as Judith wisely said, schools are the place where we ought to indigenize, as schools were the primary though not the only place where this process of di-indigenization took place. She also referred to Daniel Heath Justice, professor in the Institute for Critical Indigenous Studies at UBC, and his questioning as to what comprises knowledge in the academy. I will link to his webpage. I will also link to the article Judith mentioned, which is available for free online, by Adam Gaudry and Danielle Lorenz,  Indigenization as inclusion, reconciliation, and decolonization: navigating the different visions for indigenizing the Canadian Academy. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark's College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It's the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It's free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

    1h 19m

  2. JAN 28

    Confronting Colonial Theologies through Acts of the Apostles: A Conversation with Dr. Jordan J. Cruz Ryan

    Welcome to Episode 15 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Jordan Ryan.  This episode focuses on decolonizing theology, particularly biblical theology, using as an example Jordan's new commentary on Acts of the Apostles in the New Testament in Color, a new one volume commentary. Today's podcast introduces us to biblical hermeneutics and exegesis, which we all do from a place of positionality: who we are influences how we read and interpret texts. Dr. Ryan writes from his position as a Filipino- Canadian Christian, who now lives and works in the USA.  This was a difficult episode to title because its about decolonizing biblical theology, its about Filipino and Filipino-Canadian and American positionality in reading biblical texts, and its about Acts of the Apostles.  It's also about the Canadian hermeneutical school of Bernard Lonergan and Ben F. Meyer. Jordan Ryan introduces us to the world of Acts through the lens of a Filipino-Canadian biblical scholar in debt to Lonergan and Meyer.  Meyer was a biblical scholar at McMaster who had died in 1995, but his legacy of biblical interpretation lived on and lives on at McMaster even for scholars like Jordan and Jonathan Bernier who came after Meyer's death. Jordan's book title The Role of the Synagogue in the Aims of Jesus is a conscious nod to Meyer's famous book on the historical Jesus, The Aims of Jesus. Meyer was my teacher and I was greatly influenced by his thought and recently edited a book with my friend Paul Niskanen in tribute to Meyer called The Transcendent Mystery of God's Word.  Meyer in turn had been a student of and carried on the legacy of the great Canadian Jesuit Bernard Lonergan and his theory of interpretation known as critical realism. I was so happy to hear Jordan call this the Canadian school of biblical interpretation. At the heart of it is what Jordan noted: that true objectivity emerges from authentic subjectivity. I will not go into a lot more depth on this tonight, though there is much more to say, a podcast series worth I would say, except that it means that Meyer following Lonergan believed that we interpret from our position, whatever that is, though we always need to be aware of our blind spots and oversights and be open to correction. But Jordan's interpretation of Acts of the Apostles and the Bible in general from his position as a Filipino-Canadian is true objectivity because it is his authentic subjectivity. He reads the Bible with a Filipino-Canadian biblical hermeneutic. Please check out Jordan's commentary on Acts in The New Testament in Color: A Multiethnic Bible Commentary. His ability to read from that position opens his readers up to seeing new things in the biblical texts, to understand the role of Roman imperialism, colonizing, ethnicity, race, and antisemitism that they might not have seen before either in the text or in their own interpretations. These might be blind spots that we had not reckoned with before because we did not see them. For instance, walking away from the community of goods which Acts discusses in chapters 2 and 4 because that's communism, as if 20th century political movements negate the meaning of 1st century texts. It allows Jordan to ask questions that others might miss about coloniality, power and imperialism in Acts from his Filipino diaspora position. And the collectivist culture of the Filipino people allows them perhaps to grasp the goodness of these passages in Acts 2 and 4 more readily. We need as he said to be aware of our horizons, a term Meyer and Lonergan use extensively to indicate the limits of our view, but also to indicate what we can see. From the horizon of a 500-year history of colonization, Filipino biblical scholars like Jordan can help us understand decolonial readings of the Bible. He pointed us to authors like Reta Halteman Finger and Justo Gonzalez and Federico Villanueva and Danielle Hyeonah Lambert, who can also serve as guides to help us along with Dr Ryan, to see new ways of reading Acts and the Bible in general, to broaden our horizons and to help us overcome blind spots.  This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark's College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It's the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It's free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

    1h 17m

  3. JAN 14

    "Religion is Not Going Away:" Shinnyo-En and NRMs in Japan: A Conversation with Dr. Casey Collins

    Welcome to Episode 14 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Casey Collins.  This episode focuses on religion in Japan, particularly Buddhism, and, we can break that down even further, a new religious movement known as Shinnyo-En which is related to an esoteric school of Japanese Buddhism known as Shingon founded by the Japanese monk Kukai in the 8th century. This is not an episode in the Christian nationalism project! Casey Collins earned his PhD at the University of British Columbia, defending a dissertation entitled "Walking in the Founders' Footsteps: Hagiography and Devotion in Shinnyo-en, a Japanese New Religion," in April 2023 at the University of British Columbia. His work examines sociological and phenomenological approaches to religious studies, charismatic religious leaders, sacred narratives, new religions, and the material culture of religion. Prior to his doctoral work, Casey earned his BA and MA in Asian Studies from UBC also. He is now Director of Inter-Religious Studies and Professor of Asian Religions at VST. Today's podcast is a fascinating exploration of new religious movements, focusing, it is true, on a particular movement, Shinnyo-En, but it raises questions as Casey says, about religious practice in general, what is religion itself, especially when we look at it in contexts other than the western world, and what is it that attracts people to religion in general. Casey also gifted to us a new word, contra-modern, and it has set me wondering, how might this term apply to various religious movements across the world.  What do you think about this contra-modern movement Shinnyo-En? As I said in the episode, when I think of charismatic religious leaders, I get a little nervous, it's an immediate reaction when I think about groups I know of who have been led astray by leaders who have taken advantage of or harmed their followers. There is no evidence of that with this group, however, and Casey does not suggest such abuses do not take place in Japan too, as with the Aum Shinrikyo group who perpetrated a sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway system in 1995 that killed at least 13 people and injured thousands more. But not every new religious group behaves this way at all and the reality of new religious groups or NRMs is that people continue to be attracted to them, even in countries such as Japan where we are told the people there are not very religious and they themselves might tell you that too. Some of this has to do with the definition of religion and western conceptions of what a religion is do not map easily onto Asian conceptions of religion. Indeed, I was surprised to learn that Japan is the locus of the study of new religious movements in the academic world because it has the most NRMs in the world. I did not know that. Casey referred us to Rush Hour of the Gods: A Study of New Religious Movements in Japan by H. Neill McFarland, a classic in the field from 1967. And as Casey Collins says, NRMs are worth our attention because they ask us to think, what is it that people want from life? Why are they attracted to NRMs? Why are they attracted to religion? In the context of all the talk about religion fading away, it seems that it continues to attract people: "religion is not going away" as Casey said. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark's College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It's the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It's free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

    1h 21m

  4. 12/31/2025

    A Short History of MAGA Catholics: A Conversation with Dr. Matthew J. Cressler

    Welcome to Episode 13 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Matthew J. Cressler.  This episode is a distinct episode in the project, following that of Steven Tyra, which covers Christian nationalism in the reformed Protestant tradition, and Ruth Braunstein, who discussed Christian nationalism in US evangelicalism; today's episode is on Christian nationalism in Catholicism, particularly in the USA, as seen throughout the 20th century up until today. Matthew J. Cressler, Ph.D. is a rogue scholar, comics creator, and teacher whose work focuses on religion, race, and justice. He is also chief of staff for the Corporation for Public Interest Technology. He is the author of Authentically Black and Truly Catholic: The Rise of Black Catholicism in the Great Migrations and creator of Bad Catholics, Good Trouble, the educational webcomic series. He's written for America, The Atlantic, National Catholic Reporter, The Revealer, Slate, U.S. Catholic, and numerous academic journals, including Religion & American Culture for which he wrote "Real, Good, and Sincere Catholics."  He also co-reported the Religion News Service series "Beyond the Most Segregated Hour," which won a Wilbur Award from the Religion Communicators Council. He has two forthcoming books currently under contract: Catholics and the Making of MAGA: How an Immigrant Church Became America's Law and Order Faith (Harper Collins, 2027), and the co-authored Body & Blood: Catholic Horror in America. Today's podcast is on Catholicism and Christian nationalism in the USA, although Matthew nuances whether this particular phrase is the best description of what is happening in some factions of the Catholic church. I also introduced the phrase integralism and asked whether this is a better descriptor of a particular form of Catholic Christian nationalism. Matthew again, as you will hear, demurred, as you will hear. Not because he rejected the language outright, but because he wanted to make a broader point about Catholics in general. What Cressler does is put this current MAGA Catholicism in the context of deeper American history and indeed a deeper international history, taking the French Revolution as an important starting point, though without question the whole reality of Christendom in late antiquity and the medieval period gives us a broad and general context. This is why Matthew was reticent to make a simple equivalency with Christian nationalism in evangelical USA or even with Catholic integralism because apart from its elite proponents, it reflects the Catholicism of a lot of ordinary Catholics. Matthew asked the question, why is our tradition a welcome home for right-wing and fascist movements in the past and today? How embedded is racism and intolerance embedded in what it means to be a "good catholic"? Matthew described Tom Homan, the man in charge of Trump's border policy, as the son and grandson of law enforcement officers, and a Catholic. He's such a good catholic, this is what he said in response to the US Catholic bishops denouncing of Trump's treatment of migrants: "The Catholic Church is wrong," Homan told reporters. "I'm a lifelong Catholic, but I'm saying it not only as a border czar, but I'm also saying this as a Catholic." Surely, he too feels he is a good Catholic. It's something to consider: in some cases Christian nationalists hear a message of nationalism from the pulpit, but in this case the Church has said, this is not in keeping with the Gospel, and it goes to the highest levels of the Church, directly from Francis and Leo and the bishops. But instead of the Gospel and teaching authority of the Church, one chooses the nation state and oneself. What does it mean to be a good catholic? I think sometimes you need to make good trouble, and perhaps just listening to the perennial message of the Gospel and following it is troubling today to the powers that be. Two last things: The Flannery O'Connor short story I referenced, poorly, is "A Temple of the Holy Spirit." If you have not read Flannery O'Connor before, it is worth doing, though she herself reflected some of the racism of Georgia in the mid-twentieth century, she is a terrific writer who offers spiritually powerful insights into the human condition.  Good and bad. And the book that Matthew referenced on Catholicism in the southern USA is The South's Tolerable Aliens: Roman Catholics in Alabama and Georgia, 1945-1970, by Andrew S. Moore.  This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark's College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It's the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It's free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

    1h 16m

  5. 12/16/2025 · BONUS

    Pop Culture Matters: Christmas Movies (Part Two) with Martin Strong

    Welcome to the eighth episode of Pop Culture Matters, a conversation with my good friend and a great friend of the podcast, Martin Strong.  We returned to a discussion of Christmas movies for this episode, but not our favorite Christmas movies, which we have already discussed; so please check out that first episode to hear about The Bishop's Wife, It's a Wonderful Life, Elf, A Christmas Story, and Alistair Sim playing  Scrooge in A Christmas Carol. Instead, we are discussing movies that we have not seen before, even though they are considered Christmas classics. The list is smaller this time around, including Miracle on 34th Street (1947), Holiday Inn (1942), White Christmas (1954), and Meet Me in St. Louis (1944). Martin discussed the AFI Top Holiday Movies and the films we discussed today are quite high on that list, which I found at IMDB which had a top 20 list, with Holiday Inn ranked as number two, behind It's a Wonderful Life, White Christmas at number three, Miracle on 34th Street  at number six, and Meet Me in St. Louis at number eight. So, we are discussing four of the top eight films on that list. But lists are meant to be debated and discussed, right?  We also returned to the question of what we think makes for a good Christmas movie, and what ChatGPT thinks makes for a good Christmas movie.  ChatGPT offers six characteristics of what makes for a good Christmas movie. Interestingly, last year we offered six characteristics: transformation of a character; warmth; earnestness; a level of comfort and peace; lovingkindness; and care for each other. Listen and see how closely what we determined made a good Christmas movie is mimicked by Chat GPT. And listen to our discussion of our four films, all older and highly rated, and think about the extent to which they capture the characteristics of a classic Christmas movie. As I said last year, get comfortable and cozy with your loved ones and settle in with a cup of hot cocoa and a Christmas cookie. If this podcast hits some of the right Christmas notes, you're going to change your selfish ways and be transformed by the warmth of Christmas. Or, given the films we're discussing, maybe you're going to put together a song and dance team, write a classic Christmas song, and buy a house in the suburbs. Merry Christmas from all of us at the Centre for Christian Engagement  and St. Mark's College. Merry Christmas to Martin Strong for joining me in this venture! Merry Christmas to Kevin Eng for editing and engineering this episode and integrating all the wonderful music in the podcast. Merry Christmas to Fang Fang Chandra, the CCE assistant, who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly. Merry Christmas to Kenton McDonald-Lin for the interviews on the UBC campus that spiced up this Christmas episode.  Merry Christmas to all of our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know and give the gift of What Matters Most by also rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform.  Thanks again for listening and remember Merry Christmas.    Since St. Mark's Centre for Christian Engagement seeks to enable the creation of a culture of encounter and dialogue, let me invite you into that discussion. Follow us at our Instagram page, @stmarkscce, newly revived, and drop us a line as to what you want to see or hear. We'll post there with a question as to what you are most interested in. Or email us with your suggestions to jmartens@stmarkscollege.ca or cceconferences@stmarkscollege.ca. John W. Martens

    1h 9m

  6. 12/05/2025

    The Politics of Christian Nationalism: A Conversation with Dr. Ruth Braunstein

    Welcome to Episode 11 of Season 4! In this episode I speak with Dr. Ruth Braunstein, a sociologist at Johns Hopkins University's SNF Agora Institute. A cultural sociologist interested in the role of religion and morality in American political life, Ruth's award-winning research has been published in the top peer-reviewed journals in her field, and has been covered in major news outlets including the New York Times, Washington Post, and Time Magazine. She also writes frequently for public audiences, including at The Guardian, Religion News Service, and The Conversation, and in her weekly Substack Democracy Is Hard. Ruth is also the creator of the podcast series When the Wolves Came, which we will be discussing in this episode and which I recommend highly that you go and listen to after you finish this episode.  Ruth's research, writing and teaching have been recognized by numerous awards and fellowships. She received the inaugural Distinguished Early Career Award from the American Sociological Association's Religion Section, and her former department's 2021 Faculty Mentor Award.  She is currently President of the Society for the Scientific Study of Religion (SSSR), a Faculty Fellow at the Center for Cultural Sociology at Yale University, and Chair of the Board of Directors of PRRI. I relied on PRRI research in my introduction to the CCE Christian nationalism Project. She earned her doctoral degree in sociology from New York University and her undergraduate degree from Georgetown University. She is originally from Atlanta, GA. Today's podcast is on Christian nationalism in the USA and I found it bracing, a wakeup call.  As a scholar of early Christianity, the earliest stages of Christianity, it still shocks me as to how we got from there to here. I'm not arguing that the people who adhere to Christian nationalism are not real Christians, or challenging their devotion, but I will read a passage that Ruth cited from Matthew 7, giving it a bit more context from the chapter in Matthew: 15 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thorns or figs from thistles? 17 In the same way, every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus you will know them by their fruits. Keep this in mind as you listen to the episode. Are Christian nationalists bearing the fruit of love of neighbour? Are they bearing the fruit of the Spirit that the Apostle Paul delineates? Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control? Who is? Ask yourself this question as, as I ask myself this question: am I bearing this fruit? For me, this was an important introduction to Christian nationalism. We could not have had a better or more nuanced guide than Ruth Braunstein.  It was my honour to speak with her. This podcast emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, a centre that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, other religious traditions, and those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation.  What Matters Most is produced by the Centre for Christian Engagement at St Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC. The CCE is a centre at St. Mark's College that explores the Christian and Catholic intellectual tradition and seek to learn from others, other Christians, members of other religious traditions, and from those who do not claim any particular or formal religious affiliation. Our goal, then, is to talk to a lot of people, to learn from them, to listen to them, and to find out what motivates them, what gives them hope, what gives them peace, and what allows them to go out into the world to love their neighbors. A few thanks are in order. To Martin Strong, to Kevin Eng, and to Fang Fang Chandra, the team who helps me bring this podcast to you, but also makes the CCE run so much more smoothly.  I also want to thank our donors to the Centre, whose generosity enables this work to take place at all: Peter Bull, Angus Reid, and Andy Szocs. We are thankful to their commitment to the life of the academic world and of the work of the Church in the world by funding the work of the CCE. I am also thankful to the Cullen family, Mark and Barbara, for their support of the ongoing work of the CCE through financial donations that allow us to bring speakers to the local and international arenas. If you are enjoying the podcast, please let your friends know. It's the free gift that you can give to all of your friends! And also let people know by rating and reviewing What Matters Most on your favourite podcasting platform. And subscribe to the podcast. If you are listening, please subscribe. It's free! Thanks again for listening and remember what matters most.    John W. Martens Director, Centre for Christian Engagement

    1h 9m

  7. 11/30/2025 · BONUS

    An Introduction to the Christian Nationalism Project at the CCE

    Welcome to the first What Matters Most podcast that is also offered in video form on YouTube. This episode introduces our Christian Nationalism project and our plans for the next few years in terms of podcasts, webinars, and lectures, culminating with an international and ecumenical conference in 2028. You will also find links here to the podcast episodes that have already started to examine Christian Nationalism. We hope to offer forthcoming episodes on our YouTube channel also.  What Matters Most is a podcast focused on listening to people and what is on their minds, particularly dealing with the big questions of religion and spirituality. It emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement, a Centre at St. Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, but our programming is intended for all interested parties, Catholic or not. In the What Matters Most podcast, we talk to people, some well-known, some not so well-known, some Catholic, some Christian, some not affiliated with any religion, some affiliated with other faiths (Muslims, Sikhs) to find out what matters to them. It is a podcast focused on spirituality and faith, but truly focused on listening to others, to learning from those connected to the Church and to those who are not. In this episode I begin to define what I mean by the term "Christian Nationalism"? For me, it reflects the desire by some Christians in Europe, the USA, and in Canada, and perhaps elsewhere, to have the roles of the state and Church connected in some fundamental way so that the desires of the state and the Church are formally acknowledged and pursued by each. One of the ways we can think about the relationship is a return to some form of Christendom or a type of theocracy.  I take Christian nationalism as a particular, specific threat, separate from nationalism, which presents its own threats, and to my mind Christian nationalism needs to be defined on its own terms. A previous guest on the podcast, Bill Cavanaugh, sees nationalism itself as the threat and I cite from a recent article of his Nationalism as Idolatry: Why We Must Choose Between Elevating Religion or Country  as an important consideration. Please do check out the podcast episode he was a guest on cited below.  I also cite data from the Public Religion Research Institute, particularly "A Christian Nation? Understanding the Threat of Christian Nationalism to American Democracy and Culture," as important to understanding the nature of Christian Nationalism. This data comes from the USA, though, and there is little Canadian data to consult. One book worth consulting, though, is Lydia Bean's 2010 book The Politics of Evangelical Identity: Local Churches and Partisan Divides in the United States and Canada, in which she shows similarities in Canadian and American churches with respect to theology, but great differences in terms of their political identities.  Our goal here is to understand the phenomenon and to understand how to stand against it, both from a political point of view and from a religious point of view. It does not offer the authentic face of Christianity, although it is definitely a face of Christianity that cannot be ignored or wished away.  Part of our task too is to understand its attraction: what does it point to? What are the positives that people who desire Christian nationalism want? What does it offer them that they are missing? Why did it emerge now? Also, how does this impact people of other faiths? How is their place in a democracy understood by Christian nationalists? What do Muslims, Jews, Sikhs, indigenous peoples, and those with no particular faith, inclusive of all others, feel about Christian nationalism?  So, where are we at right now in terms of our project? Right now, there are podcasts that introduce a variety of ideas and the history of Christian nationalism in North America on the podcast.  Let me give you a list of episodes that touch on or discuss the topic in depth.  The Rise of Christian Nationalism in the 1930s and Today in the USA: A Conversation with Charles Gallagher, S.J. on October 31, 2023 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) The Uses of Idolatry, or Many Old Gods: A Conversation with Bill Cavanaugh on October 22, 2024 on Christianity and nationalism, particularly the idolatry of nationalism. Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Reconsidering John Calvin: A Conversation with Ruben Rosario Rodriguez, January 16, 2025 examines Calvin's view of the proper relationship between church and state and the authority due each of them.  Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Becoming a Catholic Peace Church: A Conversation with Gerald Schlabach January 30, 2025 In which Gerald reflects on the anabaptist understanding of the role of the church in the world and how the Catholic church can become a peace church. Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Reading the Bible in the Kingdom of Love: A Conversation with Tom Bolin June 25, 2025 In which Tom reflects on his new book, An Inspired Word in Season: Reading the Bible Responsibly in a Polarized World, which seeks to reduce polarization in a divisive political world by seeking out ways in which the Bible can reduce tension by interpreting responsibly together.  Listen here (Apple Podcasts) "The Way We Exercise Dominion is Through Justice:" A Conversation with Dr. Steven W. Tyra on Christian Nationalism, October 22, 2025 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Finally, I think Elizabeth Castelli's fits in the context of our discussion of Charlie Kirk and his murder and how that fits in martyrdom narratives. Who is a Martyr? A Conversation with Dr. Elizabeth A. Castelli, November 19, 2025 Listen here (Apple Podcasts) Coming up is Ruth Braunstein, who will discuss evangelical Christian nationalism. And following that Matthew Cressler who will discuss Catholic integralism, a specifically Catholic form of Christian nationalism. There is more to come including an in person lecture with Pavlo Smytsnyuk on March 17, 2025.  More to come, so stay tuned! And please follow us on your favourite podcasting platform, rate and review the podcast, follow us on Instagram at @stmarkscce, or drop us an email at jmartens@stmarkscollege.ca or @cceconferences@stmarkscollege.ca. Thanks for listening and remember what matters most. John W. Martens

    19 min

  8. 11/25/2025 · BONUS

    Pop Culture Matters: The Great Speckled Bird and Gospel Music with Martin Strong

    Welcome to the seventh episode of Pop Culture Matters, The Great Speckled Bird and Gospel Music with Martin Strong, the ninth episode of season four. Martin is on fire in this episode, maybe due to the Louvin Brothers' plywood Satan burning in the background, and I lower the temperature with a complicated examination of Jeremiah 12:7-13, with a focus on verse 9, where it is possible your translation mentions a Great Speckled Bird or not. If not, I dig into the Hebrew and the Greek, the Septuagint, to explain why you might find a hyena instead of a Great Speckled Bird, or at least hawk, or birds of prey, which I will discuss below. Kevin Eng also offers his interpretation of the song the Great Speckled Bird, which he plays on the piano and sings in an old-timey Gospel manner, and which you will find interspersed throughout our discussion. Kevin recorded three verses of the song, but here is the link to the eight full verses of The Great Speckled Bird.  1.What a beautiful thought I am thinking Concerning a great speckled bird Remember her name is recorded On the pages of God's Holy Word.   2. All the other birds are flocking 'round her And she is despised by the squad But the great speckled bird in the Bible Is one with the great church of God.   3. All the other churches are against her They envy her glory and fame They hate her because she is chosen And has not denied Jesus' name.   4. Desiring to lower her standard They watch every move that she makes They long to find fault with her teachings But really they find no mistake.   5. She is spreading her wings for a journey She's going to leave by and by When the trumpet shall sound in the morning She'll rise and go up in the sky.   6. In the presence of all her despisers With a song never uttered before She will rise and be gone in a moment Till the great tribulation is o'er.   7. I am glad I have learned of her meekness I am proud that my name is on her book For I want to be one never fearing The face of my Savior to look.   8. When He cometh descending from heaven On the cloud that He writes in His Word I'll be joyfully carried to meet Him On the wings of that great speckled bird. (Lyrics: Guy Martin Smith) I want to offer some of the biblical background to this song, so get ready for a complex discussion: The two Hebrew words that are the source of the translation trouble are ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ(tzbua): is this a speckled bird or birds of prey or a hawk or a hyena (or a hyena's cave)? One thing I must mention is that the way the Great Speckled Bird is interpreted as the Church in this song is a common Christian way of adapting Jewish scriptures, but in the actual historical context of the prophet Jeremiah, who lived in the 600s BC, centuries before Jesus, the "heritage" that is destroyed refers to the kingdom of Judah. God has allowed all the wild animals to destroy Judah. My point here is that the song is based on particularly Christian readings that extract the passage from its historical Jewish context.  Below are few recent English versions: Jeremiah 12:9: New Revised Standard Version Updated Edition (NRSVUE - most current and academically sound translation) Is the hawk hungry for my heritage?     Are the vultures all around her? Go, assemble all the wild animals;     bring them to devour her. Jeremiah 12:9: New Revised Standard Version (NRSV – up until a couple of years ago, the most up to date translation until NRSVUE, which is based on this translation) Is the hyena greedy for my heritage at my command?     Are the birds of prey all around her? Go, assemble all the wild animals;     bring them to devour her. Jeremiah 12:9: King James Version (KJV – old-timey translation from 16th century) Mine heritage is unto me as a speckled bird, the birds round about are against her; come ye, assemble all the beasts of the field, come to devour. Jeremiah is originally written in Hebrew. So, the Hebrew is the basis for all the translations. Translators clearly have been confused by how to translate the " speckled bird," but this might go back to ancient times, especially the word being translated as "speckled," since it is a hapax legomenon, which means it only occurs once in the whole Bible, and the first translation of the Hebrew into Greek in the 3rd century BC (more on that in a bit) translates ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿas hyena. That's how the hyena gets in there. The ancient Hebrew text (translating as literally as I can) is as follows: Is my heritage to me an ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ? Are the birds of prey circling round her? Go, assemble all the wild animals; bring them to devour her. The Septuagint (LXX) translates the phrase ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ as a hyena's cave: Surely my heritage is not a hyena's cave to me or a cave all around her? Go, assemble all the animals of the field, and let them come to eat her. Jack R. Lundbom, Jeremiah 1–20: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary, vol. 21A, Anchor Yale Bible (New Haven; London: Yale University Press, 2008), 654 offers key insights for those who want to dig deeper. I will offer a long paragraph from his commentary here: "Is my heritage to me a speckled bird of prey? Are the birds of prey circling round her? This bicolon is clear in the Hebrew except for one word, ṣābûaʿ, an OT hapax legomenon that is here translated "speckled." The double rhetorical question plays on the collective noun, ʿayiṭ, meaning "bird(s) of prey" (like English "deer"). See Gen 15:11; Isa 18:6; 46:11; and Ezek 39:4. The first ʿayiṭ ̣is singular and is a metaphor for Judah; the second is a plural representing the nations round about. If ṣābûaʿ is left untranslated, the two questions would read: "Is my heritage to me a bird of prey? Are the birds of prey circling round her?" It is simply a matter then of finding an acceptable translation for ṣābûaʿ. Traditionally this term is taken to be the passive participle of ṣbʿ, meaning "to color" (Rudolph). Cognates are attested in Akkadian, Aramaic, and Arabic, and the verb means "to dye" in postbiblical Hebrew (Emerton 1969: 183). In Judg 5:30 the noun ṣebaʾ (plural ṣĕbāʿîm) translates as "dyed fabric(s)" (cf. BDB, 840). The expression ʿayiṭ ṣābûaʿ is then accordingly translated, "speckled bird of prey," i.e., bird with variegated plumage. With support from Vg (discolor) and Rashi, this reading is adopted by Hitzig, Giesebrecht, Duhm, and numerous other commentators. The traditional interpretation then is basically sound, with the possible exception of the oft-repeated claim that birds of variegated plumage are commonly set upon by other birds—a variation of the "colored coat" episode involving Joseph and his brothers (Genesis 37). Color does make a bird more visible to predators, but in and of itself color is not known to provoke hostility in other birds. Hitzig cited Tacitus, Suetonius, and Pliny in support of his view, but these writers say nothing about birds warring with other birds of colored plumage. The same idea is found in Rashi, who gave as another possibility a bird stained with blood, around which other birds would gather. Similarly Kimḥi. The LXX translates ṣābûaʿ with hyainēs ("hyena"). The Hebrew has this meaning in Sir 13:17 [Eng 13:18] (Lévi 1904: 20) and in the Talmud (Dict Talm, 1257: "checkered leopard or striped hyena?"). There are also cognates in Arabic and Syriac (Emerton 1969: 184). "Hyena" is the definition given in KB, although the OThas no cognate term with this meaning. The problem, actually, is not the meaning of "(striped) hyena" for ṣābûaʿ, but an entire bicolon in the LXX which no modern Version translates. It reads: "Is not my inheritance to me a hyena's lair, or a lair round about her?" Both occurrences of ʿayiṭ have been translated spēlaion ("lair"), for which a satisfactory explanation has yet to be given. The hybrid readings of NEB, NAB, and NJV are all unacceptable." Bottom line: it could be a great speckled bird, but it's not certain! In terms of the Gospel music genre to which the song belongs, it is suffused as you can see with biblical passages, as are all of the Top 5 that Martin chose.  Here is a linked list of Martin's Top 5 Gospel songs, with his preferred versions, which he expanded to 7 and to which I added The Great Speckled Bird, which makes it 8: Great Speckled Bird - Roy Acuff I Saw the Light - Hank Williams I'll Fly Away - Alison Krauss and Gillian Welch Will the Circle Be Unbroken - The Staples Singers Angel Band - The Stanley Brothers The Christian Life - The Louvin Brothers Just a Closer Walk with Thee - Patsy Cline Milky White Way - Elvis Presley And now some news on upcoming podcast episodes: Coming up next, we will have the Ruth Braunstein episode on Christian nationalism and evangelicalism in the USA. Stay tuned. I found it a compelling and powerful episode.  Let us know what movies you want to discuss on our next Pop Culture Matters episode, Christmas Movies, part 2. Listen to the first episode so you know what we have already discussed. Follow us at our Instagram page, @stmarkscce or on our website Centre for Christian Engagement and drop us a line as to what you want to see or hear. Or email us with your suggestions to jmartens@stmarkscollege.ca or cceconferences@stmarkscollege.ca.  Upcoming Events The synodality series has started. I gave my lecture on November 20, The NT Origins of Synodality at St. Matthew's, Surrey and it was a great event. After the series is completed, we will be taping our lectures and putting them on our website for the CCE and our YouTube channel. Coming up! -          December 13 - Dr. Fiona Li, Mary as a Model for a Synodal Church (St. Peter's, New Westminster); Fr. Nick Meisl, The OT Origins of Synodality (St. Peter's, New Westminster), 2:30 pm -          January - Dr Nick

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What Matters Most is focused on listening to people and what is on their minds, particularly dealing with the big questions of religion and spirituality. It emerges from the Centre for Christian Engagement, a Centre at St. Mark's College, the Catholic college at UBC, but our programming is intended for all interested parties, Catholic or not. In the What Matters Most podcast, we talk to people, some well-known, some not so well-known, some Catholic, some Christian, some not affiliated with any religion, some affiliated with other faiths (Muslims, Sikhs) to find out what matters to them. It is a podcast focused on spirituality and faith, but truly focused on listening to others, to learning from those connected to the Church and to those who are not. It is grounded in personal conversations that ask guests to talk about what has motivated their vocations or their work and what gives their lives meaning and purpose. The format can best be described as a conversation that allows us to get to know our guests.

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  • Creator
    John W. Martens
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    88
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    Clean
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    What Matters Most