Work For Humans

Dart Lindsley
  • 5.0 (32)
  • MANAGEMENT
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Too often business leaders are forced to choose between the needs of their company and the needs of their employees. It’s a lose/lose scenario leaving managers burned out and workers seeking other opportunities. At Work for Humans, we believe work can be designed differently. When you design work like products people love, your company wins. Work becomes irresistible, employees passionately buy into their roles every day, and your company takes measurable strides towards your vision.

  1. 2D AGO

    The Cost of Managing From Above | William Hurst, Revisited

    William Hurst is all too familiar with the disasters that have resulted from tops-down governance. Through years of fieldwork in China and Indonesia, William has seen what happens when decision-makers are cut off from life on the ground. In this revisited episode, Dart and William explore how companies experience similar problems when they try and optimize complex systems for narrow outcomes. William Hurst is a political scientist who studies power, institutions, and labor. His work focuses on China and Indonesia, with lessons that extend far beyond politics. In this episode, Dart and William discuss: - Why rules fail people doing real work - Seeing like a state—and like a company - What James C. Scott gets right about power - How simplification distorts complex systems - When efficiency destroys what it measures - Why coercion is built into governance - How good intentions caused mass starvation - What fake compliance looks like at work - Why local knowledge keeps getting ignored - What makes work feel meaningful - And other topics… William Hurst is the Chong Hua Professor of Chinese Development at the University of Cambridge. He is a political scientist whose research focuses on labor politics, political economy, and the politics of law and institutions in China and Indonesia. Prior to Cambridge, he served as a professor at Northwestern University and held academic positions at Oxford, the University of Texas, and the University of Toronto. He is the author of Ruling Before the Law: The Politics of Legal Regimes in China and Indonesia and The Chinese Worker After Socialism. Resources Mentioned: Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed, by James C. Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Seeing-Like-State-Schemes-Condition/dp/0300078153 Ruling Before the Law: The Politics of Legal Regimes in China and Indonesia, by William Hurst: ​​https://www.amazon.com/Ruling-before-Law-Indonesia-Cambridge/dp/1108427200 The Chinese Worker After Socialism, by William Hurst: https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Worker-after-Socialism/dp/0521898870 Connect with William: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/william-hurst-05597723/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 17m

  2. FEB 24

    The Toxicity We Tolerate at Work | Catherine Mattice

    Toxicity at work isn’t always obvious. Most times, it shows up as sarcasm, neglect, and unresolved conflict. Catherine Mattice learned this firsthand while working as an HR leader inside an organization where one person slowly broke a good culture. Leadership would not step in, and she watched good people leave. That experience led her to spend years helping organizations understand and address the quiet harm they often ignore. In this episode, Dart and Catherine discuss how toxicity emerges from systems, not just people, why it is often tolerated for far too long, and what leaders misunderstand about responsibility, power, and repair. Catherine Mattice is the founder and CEO of Civility Partners, where she helps organizations address workplace toxicity, bullying, and incivility. She is the author of Navigating a Toxic Workplace For Dummies. In this episode, Dart and Catherine discuss: - How toxic behavior actually shows up at work - Why ambiguity fuels bullying - When neglect becomes a form of harm - The spectrum from incivility to harassment - Why leaders tolerate “low-level” bad behavior - How culture lives in everyday interactions - When high performers become protected sources of harm - Why managers shape culture more than CEOs - What repairing a toxic workplace really takes - And other topics… Catherine Mattice is the founder and CEO of Civility Partners. Her work focuses on helping organizations identify and address workplace bullying, incivility, and toxic behavior. She works closely with leaders, managers, and HR teams to redesign the conditions that shape how people treat one another at work. Under her leadership, Civility Partners has worked with over 250 clients, including major organizations like Chevron, NASA, and Stanford University. She is the author of Navigating a Toxic Workplace For Dummies and has created over 60 courses on LinkedIn Learning. Resources Mentioned: Navigating a Toxic Workplace For Dummies, by Catherine Mattice: https://www.amazon.com/Navigating-Workplace-Dummies-Catherine-Mattice/dp/1394326130 Connect with Catherine: Official website: https://civilitypartners.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/catherinemattice/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 3m

  3. FEB 17

    Technology Alone Won’t Change the World | Kentaro Toyama, Revisited

    Kentaro Toyama spent a decade designing technologies to fight global poverty and improve education and health. As co-founder of Microsoft Research India lab, he made a troubling discovery – innovative technologies can’t create change on their own. Realizing that social progress depends more on people than on the technology they use, Kentaro became a self-proclaimed “geek heretic” who now teaches others the importance of putting people over tech.  In this revisited episode, Dart and Kentaro discuss why technology is never the solution on its own, how human systems shape outcomes, and what it really takes to create meaningful social change. Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy. In this episode, Dart and Kentaro discuss: - Why technology needs a human touch to succeed - Kentaro’s leadership at Microsoft Research India - The 10 fallacies of technology - Why the most important areas of focus are unmeasurable - The pitfalls of focusing on the end-goal - How to create societal change - Innovation versus tried-and-true approaches - The law of amplification - 3 elements of intrinsic growth - And other topics… Kentaro Toyama is W.K. Kellogg Professor of Community Information at the University of Michigan School of Information, a fellow of the Dalai Lama Center for Ethics and Transformative Values at MIT, and author of Geek Heresy: Rescuing Social Change from the Cult of Technology. Before moving to Michigan, Kentaro co-founded Microsoft Research India, where he helped grow the lab into 60 full-time research staff. Kentaro is also a former researcher for UC Berkeley and former co-editor-in-chief of the Information Technologies and International Development journal. Resources Mentioned: Geek Heresy, by Kentaro Toyama: https://www.amazon.com/Geek-Heresy-Rescuing-Social-Technology/dp/161039528X Connect with Kentaro: www.kentarotoyama.org Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 6m

  4. FEB 10

    The Problem With Scale: What Growing Too Big Does to Work | Geoffrey West

    Geoffrey West didn’t set out to explain work. He was a physicist trying to understand why living things grow, age, and die. But when his questions expanded into biology, cities, and organizations, they offered a way to think about why growth changes how organizations behave and why success often brings new constraints. In this episode, Dart and Geoffrey discuss why work feels different as organizations scale, why cities keep renewing themselves while companies tend to burn out, and what these hidden constraints mean for the people doing the work. Geoffrey West is a British theoretical physicist and Distinguished Professor at the Santa Fe Institute. He is a former president of the Institute and the author of Scale, which explores how size shapes growth, innovation, and lifespan across living and social systems. In this episode, Dart and Geoffrey discuss: - Why work changes as organizations grow - How simple scaling laws shape complex systems - Why larger animals live longer - Why companies die younger than cities - How scale speeds up innovation - Why bureaucracy grows with success - How innovation gets crowded out over time - Why cities tolerate difference better than firms - What keeps work alive inside organizations - And other topics… Geoffrey West is a British theoretical physicist and Distinguished Professor at the Santa Fe Institute, where he previously served as president. Earlier in his career, he led the high-energy physics group at Los Alamos National Laboratory and held faculty positions at Stanford University. His research focuses on universal scaling laws in biology, cities, and social systems, examining how size shapes growth, innovation, and lifespan. He is the author of Scale. Resources Mentioned: Scale: The Universal Laws of Growth, Innovation, Sustainability, and the Pace of Life in Organisms, Cities, Economies, and Companies, by Geoffrey West: https://www.amazon.com/Scale-Universal-Innovation-Sustainability-Organisms/dp/014311090X Connect with Geoffrey: Official website: https://www.geoffreywest.com/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 11m

  5. FEB 3

    What Classrooms Reveal About Designing Better Work | Peter Liljedahl, Revisited

    After decades in education, Dr. Peter Liljedahl realized that many classrooms fail to engage the people inside them. Rather than accept that reality, he began challenging every classroom norm he could find, asking a single question of each one: does this increase thinking? What followed was a decades-long effort to redesign learning environments from the ground up, dramatically increasing student engagement and understanding. In this revisited episode, Dart and Peter discuss how rethinking classroom norms can reshape learning, collaboration, and the design of work itself. Dr. Peter Liljedahl is an author, researcher, and professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. His work focuses on increasing thinking, engagement, and collaboration through classroom design. In this episode, Dart and Peter discuss: - Peter’s redesign of the classroom and how it can be applied to work - How to create an environment that cultivates thinking - Transforming norms to achieve better results - The importance of collaboration in work and learning - The best ways to evaluate employee performance - Deconstructing ideas into actionable points - What creates “Aha!” moments - The structure of a good task - And other topics… Dr. Peter Liljedahl is a professor of mathematics education at Simon Fraser University in Vancouver, Canada. His work focuses on increasing thinking, engagement, and collaboration through classroom design. He is the author of Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics and works internationally with educators, schools, and education systems. His work has been recognized with the Cmolik Prize for the Enhancement of Public Education and the Fields Institute’s Margaret Sinclair Memorial Award for Innovation and Excellence in Mathematics Education. Resources mentioned: Building Thinking Classrooms in Mathematics, Grades K-12, by Peter Liljedahl: https://www.amazon.com/Building-Thinking-Classrooms-Mathematics-Grades/dp/1544374836 Weapons of the Weak, by James Scott: https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Weak-Everyday-Peasant-Resistance/dp/0300036418 A Pattern Language, by Christopher Alexander: https://www.amazon.com/Pattern-Language-Buildings-Construction-Environmental/dp/0195019199 Connect with Peter: X: https://x.com/pgliljedahl https://buildingthinkingclassrooms.com/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 11m

  6. JAN 27

    What Complex Organizations Do to Ethics | Ed Freeman

    Ethical questions at work rarely show up as rules or compliance issues. They show up in the systems organizations design and the outcomes those systems produce. And even well-intentioned leaders can create harm without meaning to. In this episode, Dart and Ed explore legitimacy, responsibility, employees, power, and why acting ethically inside complex systems is so difficult, even when people know what the right thing is. Ed Freeman is best known for stakeholder theory, which challenged the idea that companies exist only to serve shareholders. He argues instead that businesses are built on relationships, and that ethics and strategy can’t be separated. In this episode, Dart and Ed discuss: - Why stakeholder theory was never “shareholders versus everyone else” - What legitimacy means and why companies lose it - How ethics and strategy got separated - Why values come before business models - Managing stakeholders vs. building relationships - Why interdependence matters more than primacy - When trade-offs signal a lack of imagination - How ignoring people can lead to harm - Why ethics can’t be outsourced to regulation - What it means to act ethically inside complex systems - And other topics… R. Edward Freeman is Stephen E. Bachand University Professor of Business Administration and Olsson Professor of Business Administration at the University of Virginia’s Darden School of Business. He previously taught at the Wharton School and the University of Minnesota. His work focuses on stakeholder theory, business ethics, and the role of purpose in strategy. He is the author of the award-winning Strategic Management: A Stakeholder Approach and numerous articles on ethics, value creation, and capitalism. Resources Mentioned: Ed’s Book, Strategic Management: A Stakeholder Approach: https://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Management-R-Edward-Freeman/dp/0521151740 Ed’s Podcast, The Stakeholder Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-stakeholder-podcast/id1526139352 Connect with Ed: Darden faculty page: https://www.darden.virginia.edu/faculty-research/directory/r-edward-freeman LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/r-edward-freeman-98b8897/ Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 6m

  7. JAN 20

    The Experience IS the Brand | Alder Yarrow, Revisited

    Experience is brand. The experiences people have with a company shape how they feel, what they trust, and whether they stay. Creating those experiences is not just about interfaces or marketing. It requires rethinking internal processes, digital systems, and the everyday realities of work. Alder Yarrow has spent decades helping organizations understand experience from the inside out, and why lasting growth depends on getting it right. In this revisited episode, Dart and Alder talk about experience as brand and define experience design and experience modeling. They also discuss employees as customers and how companies can understand their specific needs. Alder Yarrow is an experience designer, advisor, and writer. He has spent over 25 years creating customer experiences for some of the world’s leading brands. In this episode, Dart and Alder discuss: - How experience becomes brand over time - What experience design really means - What experience modeling is and why it matters - Why employees should be treated as customers of work - How companies can better understand employee needs - Why in-context studies matter more than surveys - The Manager Work Practice Study - Grounded theory and its role in research - Experience design versus user experience - The Jobs-To-Be-Done theory - The say do gap - What changes when you redesign employee experience - Trauma-aware management - And other topics… Alder Yarrow has spent over 25 years helping organizations understand experience from the inside out. He has led brand and experience work for companies including Google, Twitter, Home Depot, and Tesla, and previously founded the experience design firm HYDRANT. He later served as Chief Experience Officer at Cibo and is also the founder and editor of Vinography and the author of The Essence of Wine. Resources Mentioned: The Innovator’s Dilemma by Clayton M. Christensen: https://www.amazon.com/Innovators-Dilemma-Technologies-Management-Innovation/dp/1633691780 Alder’s blog, Vinography: https://www.vinography.com/ Connect with Alder Yarrow: Website: https://www.vinography.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alderyarrow/  Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 19m

  8. JAN 13

    What Happens When AI Removes Friction from Work | Aaron Horwath

    While leading L&D at Creative Force, Aaron Horwath and his leaders began treating work as a product to be designed. That shift had wide effects, including something unexpected. Creative Force became one of the few companies to implement AI in a way that actually improved the experience of work. Instead of chasing tools, Aaron and his team started with people. In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss why starting with people led to AI success, how work can be designed as a product, and what it takes to prepare humans for a fast-approaching future. Aaron Horwath is the Director of AI Operations at Creative Force. He helps teams redesign work by starting with people and using AI to reduce friction and improve the experience of work. In this episode, Dart and Aaron discuss: - Why AI should start with people, not tools - How treating work as a product changes everything - Finding the work that drains people and removing it - Using the bubble chart to redesign jobs - The difference between human work and AI work - How non technical teams are building real software - Why AI shortens the relay race of work - Why soft skills matter more in an AI world - How AI can make work more expressive - What leaders get wrong about AI adoption - And more… Aaron Horwath is the Director of AI Operations at Creative Force, where he leads the company’s move toward AI augmented work. He previously led Learning and Development at the company, where he began treating work as a product and focusing on reducing friction in how people do their jobs. His work centers on starting with real business problems, understanding what work people love or hate, and using AI to remove low value tasks. Aaron takes a people first approach to AI, helping teams spend more time on meaningful, value generating work. Resources Mentioned: Creative Force: https://www.creativeforce.io Connect with Aaron: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronhorwath Work with Dart: Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what’s most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

    1h 14m
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out of 5
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About

Too often business leaders are forced to choose between the needs of their company and the needs of their employees. It’s a lose/lose scenario leaving managers burned out and workers seeking other opportunities. At Work for Humans, we believe work can be designed differently. When you design work like products people love, your company wins. Work becomes irresistible, employees passionately buy into their roles every day, and your company takes measurable strides towards your vision.

Information

  • Creator
    Dart Lindsley
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    197
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 Work For Humans
  • Show Website
    Work For Humans

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