No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp

Tokens Media

What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships? On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time. Together we ask: How can religion be a force for healing instead of division? What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity? Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good? How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively? If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road. Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.

  1. 7h ago

    Danielle Chapman: How Do You Inherit a Legacy You Can't Defend?

    There is a fear that keeps most of us from looking too hard at where we come from: that we will turn over the wrong rock and find something we cannot carry. In the South, a holler is the tangled place on the riverbank you are told not to go. It is also a primal yell, and, as it happens, the sound Marines make.  Danielle Chapman is a poet, a lecturer at Yale, and the author of the memoir ⁠Holler: A Poet Among Patriots⁠. She was raised largely by her grandfather, a four-star general and former Commandant of the Marine Corps, after her father drowned off the coast of Okinawa when she was three. She spent twelve years turning what began as a political critique of her past into something considerably more uncomfortable—a true telling that treats all involved as complex human beings. Key Ideas A Single Story Is Too Reductive The moment you decide someone's worst act is the whole truth about them, you've stopped being able to see anything else that's true. Be Curious Before You Judge Asking one more question is harder and more honest than settling for a verdict. Understanding Isn't the Same as Excusing Making sense of why someone did wrong doesn't require letting them off the hook for it. Facts Complicate Ideology The more you actually learn about a person or a history, the harder it gets to hold a tidy, one-sided verdict on either. Silence Is Inherited Too What a family doesn't say about its grief and its guilt gets passed down as surely as what it does say. Darkness Doesn't Get the Last Word Grace and atrocity can occupy the same family history without one canceling out the other. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Danielle Chapman⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Danielle Chapman: How Do You Inherit a Legacy You Can't Defend?
  2. 3d ago ·  Bonus

    Unabridged Interview: Annie Jacobsen

    This is our unabridged interview with Annie Jacobsen. Wouldn't you rather not know how the world ends? Nine nations hold nuclear weapons, and every one of them is watched, counted, and deterred. A biological weapon needs no nation, no missile, and no submarine. The delivery system is a pair of lungs, and the barrier to entry is a working knowledge of biology and a computer. That asymmetry is why the journalist who wrote the definitive account of how the world ends in seventy-two minutes has spent the last two years on something that frightens her more. Annie Jacobsen is a Pulitzer Prize finalist and New York Times bestselling author who has spent more than fifteen years reporting on classified military and intelligence programs, reconstructing worst-case scenarios from the testimony of the people who built them. Her new book,⁠ Biological War: A Scenario⁠, follows⁠ Nuclear War: A Scenario⁠. She calls us to courage by reminding us that you cannot fix what you cannot face. Key Ideas Six Minutes to Decide What the nuclear chain of command actually looks like once a missile is airborne, and why the clock is the least of the problems. The Delivery System Is a Pair of Lungs Why a biological weapon needs no missile, no submarine, and almost no barrier to entry, and why that changes everything about who has to worry. What the Pandemic Actually Cost Us Jacobsen's argument that the most lasting damage of COVID was never counted in cases, and that we are still paying it. The Pope's Quiet Backchannel A story she learned at the Vatican about how the world once stepped back from the brink, and why almost no one was allowed to know. Old Men in Their Nineties What decades of interviewing soldiers near the end of their lives taught her about how a human being changes. Solution, Solution, Solution Her answer to the reader who finishes the book, decides the worst case is inevitable, and gives up. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Annie Jacobsen⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Unabridged Interview: Annie Jacobsen
  3. 5d ago ·  Bonus

    The Subtext: Free Speech with Jacob Mchangama Part 1

    Nikki Minaj thanked Elon Musk for saving free speech, so naturally, Lee and Savannah had to phone a friend to learn more about what is going on. Jacob Mchangama, Founder and Executive Director of The Future of Free Speech sat down with The Subtext to discuss everything from social media and censorship to hate speech, political polarization, and the First Amendment. They examine the real costs of protecting speech we disagree with and why history suggests those costs may still be worth paying. Want to keep learning more? Well, you're in luck because Jacob's organization is hosting a summit in Nashville, TN this fall: The Future of Free Speech - Global Free Speech Summit Oct. 2-3, 2026. Things we mentioned in this episode: Letters from a Stoic by Lucius Annaeus Seneca Europe Since Napoleon by David Thomson The Agency on Paramount+ Meditations by Marcus Aurelius Enchiridion by Gil Epictetus The Courage to be Disliked by Ichiro Kishimi and Fumitake Koga M*A*S*H* on Hulu The Future of Free Speech - Global Free Speech Summit Oct. 2-3, 2026 Follow Jacob! Facebook | X | Instagram Follow The Future of Free Speech! Facebook | X | Instagram Follow The Subtext: Instagram | Threads | X | YouTube | TikTok Follow Lee: Instagram | Twitter | Lee's Newsletter Follow Savannah: Instagram | Substack Join our Email List: nosmallendeavor.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    The Subtext: Free Speech with Jacob Mchangama Part 1
  4. Aug 3

    Annie Jacobsen: Why Biological War Scares Her More Than Nuclear

    Wouldn't you rather not know how the world ends? Nine nations hold nuclear weapons, and every one of them is watched, counted, and deterred. A biological weapon needs no nation, no missile, and no submarine. The delivery system is a pair of lungs, and the barrier to entry is a working knowledge of biology and a computer. That asymmetry is why the journalist who wrote the definitive account of how the world ends in seventy-two minutes has spent the last two years on something that frightens her more. Annie Jacobsen is a Pulitzer Prize finalist and New York Times bestselling author who has spent more than fifteen years reporting on classified military and intelligence programs, reconstructing worst-case scenarios from the testimony of the people who built them. Her new book, Biological War: A Scenario, follows Nuclear War: A Scenario. She calls us to courage by reminding us that you cannot fix what you cannot face. Key Ideas Six Minutes to Decide What the nuclear chain of command actually looks like once a missile is airborne, and why the clock is the least of the problems. The Delivery System Is a Pair of Lungs Why a biological weapon needs no missile, no submarine, and almost no barrier to entry, and why that changes everything about who has to worry. What the Pandemic Actually Cost Us Jacobsen's argument that the most lasting damage of COVID was never counted in cases, and that we are still paying it. The Pope's Quiet Backchannel A story she learned at the Vatican about how the world once stepped back from the brink, and why almost no one was allowed to know. Old Men in Their Nineties What decades of interviewing soldiers near the end of their lives taught her about how a human being changes. Solution, Solution, Solution Her answer to the reader who finishes the book, decides the worst case is inevitable, and gives up. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Annie Jacobsen Thank you to our sponsors: The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Annie Jacobsen: Why Biological War Scares Her More Than Nuclear
  5. Jul 31 ·  Bonus

    Unabridged Interview: Malcolm Guite

    This is our unabridged interview with Malcolm Guite. A frightened knight, cornered in a castle he doesn't understand, grabs a spear he was warned not to touch and drives it into the king. And because the king and the land are one, the whole country goes barren. The rivers empty, the crops fail, nothing can be born. It's called the Dolorous Stroke, and poet Malcolm Guite first heard it at eight years old from his mother. When he protested that the knight didn't know what he was doing, that no world could work this way, his mother answered him: “I'm telling you this story because you need to know that you live in just such a world.” But there's a second half. The same spear that wounded the king is the only thing that can heal him. Guite is a poet, Anglican priest, life fellow of Girton College, Cambridge, and the frontman of a rhythm-and-blues band. His latest work is Merlin's Isle: An Arthuriad, a four-volume epic retelling of the Arthurian legends in ballad form, beginning with Galahad and the Grail. He's convinced these old stories are older and wiser than we are, that they know something we've spent a few centuries forgetting.  Key Ideas The Dolorous Stroke One rash act, one seized spear, and a whole land laid waste. The medieval image Guite thinks describes exactly where we are now. The Spear That Wounds Also Heals The strange logic at the heart of the Grail story, and why the cure has to come through the very thing that caused the wound. You Live in Just Such a World What Guite's mother told an eight-year-old about a world that can be undone by one frightened person, in the shadow of the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Boy Who Read the Poem At sixteen, homesick and depressed, Guite reads Keats and walks out certain something had happened that brain chemistry could never fully explain. The Immense Relief of Being a Creature What happens when you stop having to be the be-all and end-all of everything, and why that turns out to be freedom rather than loss. Vulnerable Means Woundable The Latin root that reframes depression, love, and the whole shape of a good life. Love doesn't tower over. It comes down on the level with you. The Wasteland We're In Now How a barren medieval kingdom became, for Guite, a picture of disenchantment, ecological ruin, and a culture that's lost the thread of its own story. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Malcolm Guite Thank you to our sponsors: The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Unabridged Interview: Malcolm Guite
  6. Jul 27

    Malcolm Guite: A Wounded King, a Barren Land, and the Spear That Heals

    A frightened knight, cornered in a castle he doesn't understand, grabs a spear he was warned not to touch and drives it into the king. And because the king and the land are one, the whole country goes barren. The rivers empty, the crops fail, nothing can be born. It's called the Dolorous Stroke, and poet Malcolm Guite first heard it at eight years old from his mother. When he protested that the knight didn't know what he was doing, that no world could work this way, his mother answered him: “I'm telling you this story because you need to know that you live in just such a world.” But there's a second half. The same spear that wounded the king is the only thing that can heal him. Guite is a poet, Anglican priest, life fellow of Girton College, Cambridge, and the frontman of a rhythm-and-blues band. His latest work is Merlin's Isle: An Arthuriad, a four-volume epic retelling of the Arthurian legends in ballad form, beginning with Galahad and the Grail. He's convinced these old stories are older and wiser than we are, that they know something we've spent a few centuries forgetting.  Key Ideas The Dolorous Stroke One rash act, one seized spear, and a whole land laid waste. The medieval image Guite thinks describes exactly where we are now. The Spear That Wounds Also Heals The strange logic at the heart of the Grail story, and why the cure has to come through the very thing that caused the wound. You Live in Just Such a World What Guite's mother told an eight-year-old about a world that can be undone by one frightened person, in the shadow of the Cuban Missile Crisis. The Boy Who Read the Poem At sixteen, homesick and depressed, Guite reads Keats and walks out certain something had happened that brain chemistry could never fully explain. The Immense Relief of Being a Creature What happens when you stop having to be the be-all and end-all of everything, and why that turns out to be freedom rather than loss. Vulnerable Means Woundable The Latin root that reframes depression, love, and the whole shape of a good life. Love doesn't tower over. It comes down on the level with you. The Wasteland We're In Now How a barren medieval kingdom became, for Guite, a picture of disenchantment, ecological ruin, and a culture that's lost the thread of its own story. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Show Notes, Resources, and Transcript⁠ for abridged episode with Malcolm Guite⁠ Thank you to our sponsors: The Wonder Project: Subscriber support makes more great content like I Gotta Ask with Annie F. Downs possible. The Wonder Project subscription on Prime Video is available in the U.S. for $8.99/month or $89.99/year after a 7-day free trial. Visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠IGottaAsk.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to learn more! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join NSE+⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — our subscriber-only community — for ad-free listening, member-only bonus content, and early access to live show tickets. Your membership helps make No Small Endeavor sustainable. No Small Endeavor: An award-winning podcast that asks what it means to live a good life. Through conversations with leading thinkers across theology, philosophy, psychology, politics, and the social sciences, we explore human flourishing, meaning and purpose, faith and culture, science and religion, virtue and character, religion and spirituality, community, and the practices that help shape a good life grounded in truth, beauty, and goodness. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@nosmallendeavor⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  Host Lee C. Camp: Lee has worked as a professor of theology & ethics for more than 25 years, teaching and writing on topics of faith & politics, inter-religious dialog, and human flourishing at the intersection of theology, moral philosophy, and social sciences. Follow ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@leeccamp ⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

    Malcolm Guite: A Wounded King, a Barren Land, and the Spear That Heals
4.8
out of 5
562 Ratings

About

What does it really mean to live a good life—in our politics, our faith, our work, and our relationships? On No Small Endeavor with Lee C. Camp, we explore the ideas, practices, and public debates that shape human flourishing today. Each week you’ll hear thought-provoking conversations with bestselling authors, philosophers, neuroscientists, psychologists, theologians, artists, and political leaders—people wrestling with the biggest questions of meaning and purpose in our time. Together we ask: How can religion be a force for healing instead of division? What does neuroscience reveal about happiness, habits, and productivity? Where do politics and justice meet the pursuit of the common good? How do truth, beauty, and goodness help us live well—personally and collectively? If you care about faith, politics, social justice, science, or the search for meaning, you’ll find courageous, practical conversations here. Because pursuing a meaningful life is no small endeavor—and we’re with you on the road. Learn more at nosmallendeavor.com.

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