John Fallon is the former CEO of Pearson, where he led one of the most challenging digital transformations of any publicly traded company—shifting a legacy publishing giant from selling ~20 million US college textbooks per year to a subscription-driven, digital platform business. This episode was recorded live at LHH’s Executive Exchange Conference in London, and John joins us to share hard-won leadership lessons from the front lines of disruption. For years we’ve been told only nimble startups survive disruption. But that story misses a quieter truth: most of the Fortune 500 was founded long before the internet—and many incumbents have adapted through multiple platform shifts. In his new book, Resurgent, John (with Julian Birkinshaw of London Business School) makes a contrarian case: established organizations can fight back—and even thrive—if they get clear on their enduring value, redesign for transformation, and lead change like the human “contact sport” it is. In this conversation, John breaks down why disruption often unfolds over decades (not months), how to separate a temporary headwind from a structural shift, and why identifying your company’s true “job to be done” matters more than clinging to any one product. He also shares practical leadership tools for navigating politics, building alignment, empowering middle managers, and sustaining people through prolonged upheaval. What you’ll learn in this episode •Why incumbents are often more resilient than we assume—and what the data says •How to spot the difference between “secular vs structural” change (and why timing is so hard) •The “job to be done” lens: how Pearson moved from textbooks to learning outcomes •Why digital transformation is less about tech and more about people, culture, and organizational design •How to reduce “the meeting after the meeting” and create real disagree-and-commit execution Episode Timeline 00:00 Welcome to Outthinkers + Live Special Episode Setup 01:22 Why Incumbents Can Win: Pearson’s Transformation & the Book ‘Resurgent’ 05:30 Elephants Can Dance: Fortune 500 Resilience and the Myth of Instant Disruption 09:10 Pearson’s Textbook Collapse: Secular vs Structural (and Recency Bias) 11:33 From Textbooks to ‘Job to Be Done’: Purpose, Pricing, and the Access Model 13:45 Crisis Clarifies Identity: Cancer, Core Value, and Avoiding ‘Netflix of X’ Thinking 16:56 Making Purpose Real in Transformation: Profit, Restructuring, and Middle Managers as Shock Absorbers 21:23 Why Digital Transformation Gets Political: Twin-Speed Orgs, Uncertain Disruption, and Staying ‘Busy Being Born’ 24:42 Why AI Transformation Is a Human Problem (Linear vs Exponential Change) 26:05 CEO Time: Thinking Space, Contrarian Views & “Disagree and Commit” 28:14 Avoiding the “Meeting After the Meeting”: How to Build Real Alignment 30:17 Audience Q: Leading with Humility—Saying “I Don’t Know” & Showing Humanity 34:08 Should You Take the CEO Job? Confidence, Humility, and Resilience Reserves 36:49 Beyond the Burning Platform: Replatforming, Timing, and Centralize vs Decentralize 41:18 CEO Sounding Boards: CFO/CHRO Partnerships, Board Support, and Staying Grounded 43:35 Culture vs Strategy: The “False Dichotomy” and Building a Learning Organization 45:47 Wrap-Up, Thanks, and Subscribe Additional Resources •Resurgent (book): https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/resurgent-9781399422000/ John Fallon on LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/johnfallonpearson Thank you to our guest John Fallon. Thank you to our executive producer Zach Ness, our producer Nazanin Homayoun Jam and our editor James Pearce. If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, download, and subscribe. I’m your host, Kaihan Krippendorff—thank you for listening. Follow us at outthinker.com/podcast
