Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery

Allen Berger & Thom Rutledge
  • 4.4 (55)
  • MENTAL HEALTH
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholic's Anonymous, wrote in 1952, "If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand." Wilson suggested that if we could identify and continually surrender these unrealistic and unrecognizable demands, that we may then be able to accomplish what he imagined to be recovery's next frontier - something he called emotional sobriety.   Flash forward 70 years, and join psychotherapists and best-selling authors Thom Rutledge and Dr. Allen Berger, who have taken up the mantle of exploring Bill Wilson's new frontier. Welcome to Emotional Sobriety.

  1. “What You Resist Will Persist,” with John Amodeo

    2D AGO

    “What You Resist Will Persist,” with John Amodeo

    Former guest and longtime friend John Amodeo joins Allen and Thom to advocate “gentle presence” 9 making ourselves available to the full range of what we’re experiencing in the moment, whether pleasure and pain. People are afraid of their emotions - “If I start crying, when will I stop?” The greater danger, in our experience, is the suppression of emotion. We also touch on processing failure and mistakes, cautioning against blame. When we get stuck in blame, we don’t learn and grow from our experiences. Buy John’s new book, The Power of Gentle Presence: Insights for Inner Peace & Deeper Relationships here: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0G1HLNFV5 Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments. Chapters (00:00:07) - Emotional Sobriety with Dr. John Ammodeo(00:01:21) - John Feist in Personal Growth(00:06:42) - Exploring Boundaries(00:11:32) - Boundaries of Personal Experience(00:15:33) - John on Self-Acceptance(00:20:36) - What is Healthy Shame?(00:21:47) - The Importance of Gentle Presence(00:26:31) - Goodbye, Emotional Sobriety(00:27:33) - John and Alan on The Three Pillars of Love(00:32:01) - Emotional Sobriety and Relationships

    37 min
  2. Whitehat Addictions

    FEB 9

    Whitehat Addictions

    Thom checks back in after a long period of freezing weather and system crash in Tennessee, Allen gets honest after recent familial struggles. What makes it difficult for us to own our bad behavior? This week is emotional sobriety through fear and wreckage, demanding cleanup. Thom's Nutshell: Can you describe how you think as well as you can describe what you think?" "In The Daily Stoic, Ryan Holiday offers a question that is simple and profound: "Am I in control of this or is this anxiety?" - anxiety being the tell-tale sign that we feel the need to control what we cannot. When I am experiencing anxiety, then I am wasting valuable energy focusing on what I do not and cannot control. Once I recognize that I am doing this, I shift all of my focus on levitating that chair h with my mind. This is a good example of focusing on PROCESS rather than CONTENT. Focusing on HOW I am thinking rather than WHAT I am thinking. These kinds of changes must be radical in order to be effective. You know, simple but far from easy. (And if you move the chair, please let me know.) Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    35 min
  3. Excavating Your Lost Self

    FEB 1

    Excavating Your Lost Self

    Thom’s Nutshell: "How much of what you believe do you really believe?" Allen and Patrick review a recent Slate article about Emotional Sobriety and push back on some of its premises. Emotional Sobriety isn’t just about taking care of ourselves, it’s about dismantling expectations and developing an entirely new way of living. It offers not just inner peace, but true freedom. The article: “I Quit Drinking. It’s Great. There’s Just One Small Problem.” https://slate.com/advice/2025/08/drinking-alcoholism-emotional-sobriety-dry-drunk-advice.html Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    22 min
  4. "Focus Mokus" with Joe C.

    JAN 27

    "Focus Mokus" with Joe C.

    On clarity, which comes with emotional sobriety: an antidote to impulsivity, rumination, indecision and procrastination. Thom’s nutshell wisdom: Your ego has one value system, your spirit another. Beware of identifying with one and acting from the other. We all experience this. It is the source of our deepest hypocrisy. This is the human struggle: personally and globally. Our hearts go out to the people of Minneapolis. Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    37 min

  5. JAN 19

    Personal Agency in Emotional Sobriety

    "I didn't have a choice." You're selling yourself short. Or you mean, the choice seemed obvious to you. But still, you made the choice. Or - you are making an excuse, ducking responsibility, for a poor choice that you made. Because... We always have choices. Even not making a choice is a choice. Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    28 min
  6. Tout Est Possible

    JAN 12

    Tout Est Possible

    Today’s Nutshell Wisdom: The big difference between passing judgment and exercising judgment: One focuses attention on something I do not control. The other focuses on precisely what I do control. Today we’re back to the serenity prayer and describing what emotional sobriety’s “discovery of new possibilities” could practically mean. Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST Zoom Link:  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    23 min
  7. Resilience Myths

    JAN 1

    Resilience Myths

    Joe C. quotes Joseph Campbell: “We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.” Thom’s nutshell for today: “Measure your progress in units of willingness instead of willpower, with degrees of self-acceptance rather than change." Allen, Thom, Joe and Patrick each talk about how their understanding of emotional sobriety has evolved over the past year, looking ahead to 2026. Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST Zoom Link:  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    35 min
  8. Self-Supporting Holiday

    12/24/2025

    Self-Supporting Holiday

    For this week’s nutshell, prioritizing comfort will eventually make us very uncomfortable. We talk amends and pull some wisdom from Arthur Schopenhaur (via Joe C.’s “Beyond Belief”). Sending love and emotional sobriety to you all this holiday. We’ll be back for one more in 2025. Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com    Follow us on social media. Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs   Friendly Circle Berlin Workshop Group meets every Monday @ 7:30pm (Berlin), 6:30pm (Ireland & UK), 1:30pm EST, 10:30am PST Zoom Link:  https://us02web.zoom.us/j/5505019905   Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/   Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below):  https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986   For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g   Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings.   We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.

    22 min
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4.4
out of 5
55 Ratings

About

Bill Wilson, co-founder of Alcoholic's Anonymous, wrote in 1952, "If we examine every disturbance we have, great or small, we will find at the root some unhealthy dependence and its consequent demand." Wilson suggested that if we could identify and continually surrender these unrealistic and unrecognizable demands, that we may then be able to accomplish what he imagined to be recovery's next frontier - something he called emotional sobriety.   Flash forward 70 years, and join psychotherapists and best-selling authors Thom Rutledge and Dr. Allen Berger, who have taken up the mantle of exploring Bill Wilson's new frontier. Welcome to Emotional Sobriety.

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