On The Balcony

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On The Balcony is a podcast for change agents, executives and people who care about developing others. In this kick-off season Michael Koehler and his guests examine Ronald Heifetz’s landmark book: “Leadership Without Easy Answers,” the framework behind the most inspiring leadership class at Harvard University. The show offers powerful reflections and live coaching on today’s most pressing challenges. Learn more about Michael and his work at www.konu.org

  1. Bill Adams & Bob Anderson: The Next Stage of Leadership

    FEB 25

    Bill Adams & Bob Anderson: The Next Stage of Leadership

    Join us for What Stayed, a live Season Two gathering. March 31 · Virtual · Free · Limited spots · konu.org/events There are many leadership assessments in the world. Most measure competencies — skills, behaviors, strengths, and gaps. The Leadership Circle begins from a different starting point. It integrates leadership theory, systems thinking, and adult development into a single model that connects behavior to the structure of mind beneath it. In this episode, Michael Koehler and his colleague Judit Teichert sit down with Bill Adams and Bob Anderson — co-founders of The Leadership Circle, long-time pioneers in leadership development, and authors of Scaling Leadership and Mastering Leadership. This conversation is less an explanation of a model and more a reflection on its evolution. Bill and Bob revisit the foundational distinction between reactive and creative leadership, share personal moments of reckoning with their own patterns, and explore what happens when even creative leadership begins to feel insufficient for the scale of today’s adaptive challenges. If reactive leadership is driven by managed anxiety, and creative leadership introduces vision and choice, what comes next? Bill and Bob suggest that the next stage may require something more relational than individual brilliance — a shift toward collective intelligence, deeper self-awareness, and leadership informed not by separateness, but by unity. What You’ll Explore in This EpisodeReactive to CreativeHow strengths, when run reactively, become liabilities. Why development begins when we can see our patterns rather than be run by them. And why reactive leadership is less a comfort zone and more managed anxiety. When Growth Hits a CeilingA powerful story of a CEO who unknowingly capped his organization’s growth — and what changed when he realized he was up against himself. Adaptive challenges cannot be solved from within the very structure that created them. Scaling LeadershipDrawing on over a million survey comments, Bill and Bob describe the central shift in effective leadership: from leading through individual capability to developing people and building collective capacity. Leadership scales when development becomes shared work. The Next StageBob describes what he calls integral leadership — leadership grounded in the presumption, if not the direct realization, of the inherent unity of all things. If our current paradigm is built on separateness, what might leadership look like if it were grounded in unity instead? This episode does not offer easy answers. It invites deeper questions: How do we lead in the unknown?How do we slow down when urgency tempts us to push harder?What if the future emerges not from force — but from listening? Quotes from This Episode“Strengths run reactively have liabilities.” — Bob Anderson “Reactive leadership isn’t a comfort zone. It’s managed anxiety.” — Bob Anderson “I am my own project for life. And it’s a big project.” — Bill Adams “If we want things to change, I have to do most of the changing.” — Bill Adams “Are we going to clean this up neatly? The deep recesses of racism that have been in our lineage for millennia? Patriarchy, violence, war, exploitation? We’re going to clean that up neatly? No. It’s going to be a mess.” — Bob Anderson “Integral leadership is founded on the presumption — if not the direct realization — of the inherent unity of all things.” — Bob Anderson Links & ResourcesThe Leadership Circlehttps://leadershipcircle.com/ YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@TheLeadershipCircle Deep Connect Series https://leadershipcircle.com/deep-connect-series/ The Future of Leadership is Integral Informed by Unity White Paper https://leadershipcircle.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/Future-of-Leadership-Integral-In-formed-by-Unity.pdf Unity Academy https://leadershipcircle.com/leadership-coach-certifications/unity-academy/ Scaling LeadershipScaling Leadership: Building Organizational Capability and Capacity to Create Outcomes that Matter Most Robert J. Anderson & William A. Adams (2019) Mastering LeadershipMastering Leadership: An Integrated Framework for Breakthrough Performance and Extraordinary Business Results Robert J. Anderson & William A. Adams (2015) About the GuestsBill Adams is CEO of Full Circle Group and The Leadership Circle, a serial entrepreneur and executive advisor who has worked with CEOs and senior teams across Fortune 500 companies and global organizations. Bob Anderson is Founder and Chairman of The Leadership Circle and co-creator of the Leadership Circle Profile™, integrating adult development, systems thinking, and leadership theory into a comprehensive developmental framework. Continue the ConversationNew episodes of On the Balcony drop every two weeks. Receive reflections and additional resources at: konu.org/balcony Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    57 min
  2. Dr. Matthias Birk: Mindfulness Beyond Self-Optimization

    FEB 12

    Dr. Matthias Birk: Mindfulness Beyond Self-Optimization

    Join us for What Stayed, a live Season Two gathering. March 31 · Virtual · Free · Limited spots · konu.org/events Mindfulness has become respectable. It improves focus. It reduces stress. It helps leaders perform under pressure. But what if mindfulness isn't primarily about performance? In this episode of On the Balcony, Michael Koehler sits down with Dr. Matthias Birk—organizational psychologist, executive coach, former Global Head of Coaching & Advisory at Goldman Sachs, Global Director of Partner Development at White & Case, Zen teacher, and founder of Self-Transcendent Leadership. What unfolds is not a conversation about mindfulness as a productivity tool. It's a conversation about perspective. Matthias distinguishes between what he calls within-paradigm mindfulness—using meditation to cope more skillfully within the identity you already inhabit—and beyond-paradigm mindfulness, which loosens that identity altogether. One reduces suffering within the game. The other questions the game itself. At the heart of the episode is a passage from Rainer Maria Rilke: Be forever dead in Eurydice, singingly rise, praisingly rise, back into pure relation. Here, among the vanishing, be—in the realm of demise. Be the pulsating glass, shattered yet of its own vibration. Be—and yet know the non-being's ground, The infinite bottom of your innermost sound. So that you might complete it—this one only time.For Matthias, meditation isn't an accessory to leadership. It's not like playing golf. It's about being fully alive in the here and now—and discovering what remains when achievement, anxiety, and identity begin to soften. What You'll Explore in This Episode Meditation before it was fashionable Matthias began practicing Zen as a teenager, long before mindfulness entered corporate vocabulary. Within-paradigm vs. beyond-paradigm mindfulness Mindfulness can help you manage stress inside demanding roles. But it can also invite you to question who you are beyond those roles. Achievement and insecurity From McKinsey to Goldman Sachs to global leadership, Matthias reflects candidly on ambition and belonging—and how meditation shifted his relationship to that inner voice. Self-transcendence Drawing on Abraham Maslow's later work, Matthias explores what it means to move beyond ego-centered striving toward expression, service, and alignment with something larger. Leadership as expression What if leadership isn't about constructing a persona—but about listening deeply enough to express what's already there, this one only time? Quotes from This Episode "Meditation is not a hobby. It's not like playing golf. It's not something you do on the side. It is about being fully alive in the here and now." — Dr. Matthias Birk "If you don't brush your teeth, they're going to rot. If you don't brush your mind, it's going to come up with not great stuff." — Dr. Matthias Birk "The real benefit of mindfulness is that you can live a free life." — Dr. Matthias Birk "One of the saddest things is to live a life and never hear your innermost sound." — Dr. Matthias Birk Links & Resources Self-Transcendent Leadership — Dr. Matthias Birk https://www.self-transcendent.com/ Publications & Articles by Dr. Matthias Birk https://www.matthiasbirk.com/publications Selected Articles Why Leaders Need Meditation More Than Ever — Harvard Business Review (March 2020)Now Is a Great Time to Start Practicing Mindfulness — Harvard Business Review (January 2021)Why It Is Important (Especially for Leaders) to Feel Their Fear and Pain — Mindful Magazine (September 2022)At the Beginning You Hold the Structure, Then the Structure Holds You — Tricycle: The Buddhist Review(September 2023) Guided Meditation 7-Minute Guided Mindfulness Meditation — Insight Timer https://insighttimer.com/Matthias_Birk/guided-meditations/guided-mindfulness-meditation-2 Continue the Conversation New episodes of On the Balcony drop every two weeks. Receive additional reflections and resources at konu.org/balcony About Dr. Matthias Birk Dr. Matthias Birk is an organizational psychologist, executive coach, and founder of Self-Transcendent Leadership. He began his career at McKinsey & Company advising clients on leadership development and organizational change, and later served as Global Head of Coaching & Advisory at Goldman Sachs and Global Director of Partner Development at White & Case. He is an ICF-certified executive coach, trained in family therapy at the Ackerman Institute in New York, and has taught leadership for over a decade as an Adjunct Professor at Columbia Business School and NYU. He is also a long-time Zen practitioner and teacher at New York's Still Mind Zendo. He lives in Brooklyn with his wife and two children—and is an equally passionate and mediocre surfer. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    31 min
  3. Dr. Tim O’Brien: Holding What Matters

    JAN 20

    Dr. Tim O’Brien: Holding What Matters

    Some challenges don't fail because we lack intelligence, expertise, or good intentions. They fail because the systems meant to hold them — the structures, relationships, and shared stories — aren't strong enough to carry the weight. In this episode of On the Balcony, Michael Koehler sits down with Tim O'Brien to explore one of the most quietly powerful ideas in Adaptive Leadership: the holding environment. At the center of the conversation is a real public case — Gina Raimondo's leadership of pension reform in Rhode Island — where the technical problem was solvable, but the adaptive challenge was immense. Retirements, livelihoods, and deeply held beliefs were at stake. Data alone couldn't move the system. Logic was not enough for people to absorb the loss. What made progress possible was the deliberate construction of a holding environment — one capable of containing fear, grief, anger, and conflict long enough for new meaning to emerge. Tim and Michael use this case to unpack what holding environments really are — not abstract "safe spaces," but designed conditions that help people stay in hard conversations without fleeing, fixing, or polarizing. What You'll Explore in This EpisodeWhat a holding environment actually is. Holding environments are the structures, relationships, and shared stories that make it possible for people to engage adaptive challenges without becoming too overwhelmed. As Tim describes it, a holding environment is not about removing distress — it's about recognizing and legitimizing what people are already carrying. The three components of a holding environment. The conversation explores structures and boundaries (time limits, spatial design, process clarity, and role boundaries all matter — from how long a meeting lasts, to who holds the microphone, to how a forum is framed); relationships both horizontal and vertical (holding environments depend on the quality of relationships among peers and the relationship between people and authority — trust, legitimacy, and containment travel through these relational channels); and story, meaning, and purpose (facts matter, but they must be held within a shared narrative — in Rhode Island, Raimondo's "Truth in Numbers" report didn't just inform, it created a common reality people could argue within, rather than argue about). The Rhode Island pension reform case. The episode walks through how Raimondo resisted the pressure to act as a technical savior and instead orchestrated a process where loss could be named, anger expressed, and responsibility shared. Public forums, clear data, and repeated engagement weren't accidental — they were elements of a holding environment intentionally designed to stretch the system's capacity. Why some systems collapse under pressure. Many organizations already have holding environments — but not ones strong enough for the challenges they're facing. When the heat exceeds the container, people disengage, scapegoat, or polarize. Exercising leadership often means strengthening the container rather than supplying answers. Holding environments vs. psychological safety. The conversation distinguishes between team-level psychological safety and the broader, more demanding work of holding environments — especially in public or cross-boundary systems where authority is diffuse and stakes are high. Quotes from This Episode"A holding environment might be a place where one's inner world is recognized, legitimized, or validated." — Tim O'Brien "She creates a space where cognitive and emotional turmoil could give way to meaning. People are upset, angry, full of rage — but something has to be done." — Tim O'Brien "They're not forging lifelong relationships, but on this particular issue they're meeting the other people who are implicated — hearing them, getting to know their story, and taking in the complexity of the situation." — Tim O'Brien "Holding environments are spaces in which cognitive and emotional turmoil give way to meaning.” —Gianpiero Petriglieri (shared by Tim O'Brien) Links & ResourcesLeading Pension Reform in Rhode Island: Building Holding Environments to Achieve Change: https://case.hks.harvard.edu/leading-pension-reform-in-rhode-island-building-holding-environments-to-achieve-change/ Holding Environments and Public Problem Solving: https://case.hks.harvard.edu/holding-environments-and-public-problem-solving/ Petriglieri, G. & Petriglieri, J. L. (2010). Identity Workspaces: The Case of Business Schools. Academy of Management Learning & Education, 9(1), 44–60. Gianpiero Petriglieri — LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/gpetriglieri/ Gianpiero Petriglieri — YouTube Talk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UNey2CS4Lk Tim O'Brien — Harvard Kennedy School Faculty Page https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/timothy-obrien About Tim O'BrienTim O'Brien is a senior lecturer at the Harvard Kennedy School, where he teaches Adaptive Leadership and public problem-solving. His work focuses on adult development, leadership education, and the design of holding environments that help individuals and systems engage complexity without becoming overwhelmed. New episodes drop every two weeks. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    35 min
  4. Judit Teichert: Practice Is the Path

    JAN 6

    Judit Teichert: Practice Is the Path

    Season 2 of On the Balcony continues by looking sideways — exploring frameworks that stretch Adaptive Leadership into new terrain. In this episode, Michael Koehler sits down with Judit Teichert, Managing Director and Partner at KONU Germany. Judit's work is shaped by her background as a licensed psychotherapist trained in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT), and more than a decade of coaching and facilitation around adaptive leadership and adult development with teams and organizations across Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and the U.S. The conversation explores a question that sits quietly underneath so much leadership work: If we already understand the challenge, why is change still so hard? Judit's answer: insight alone isn't enough. We need practice — repeated iterations that build new pathways, not just in our thinking, but in our emotions, behaviors, and relationships. Change requires more than understanding. It requires reps. This episode also spends time with loss — not as something to fix or rush past, but as something that needs to be named, held, and lived through if change is going to last. Stay With What You're Learning Each episode, we send a short reflection and one resource to go deeper — things we don't include in the show. Sign up for the On the Balcony newsletter: konu.org/balcony What You'll Explore in This Episode The triangle of change: thinking, feeling, acting How cognitive behavioral therapy offers multiple entry points into change — and why limiting ourselves to "thinking our way" into new behavior often falls short. Why insight isn't enough The gap between understanding a pattern and actually changing it. Why we underestimate how many iterations — how many "reps" — real change requires. Practice as pathway-building The metaphor of building a road through a jungle: the first time you take a new route, everything is unfamiliar and threatening. Only through repetition does a path become a highway. Managing loss in organizations Why naming loss is both diagnosis and intervention. How holding space — without rushing to solutions — allows groups to grieve and then reorient on their own terms. The role of ritual and structure in grief What we can learn from cultural and religious traditions about allocating time and space for mourning — and why organizations often skip this step. Reframing loss as sacrifice How, after grief has been processed, framing loss as "in service of something bigger" can restore meaning and commitment. A live example from client work How one organization combined adaptive leadership diagnosis with CBT-informed skills practice — role-playing difficult conversations repeatedly to build new muscles for candor. Quotes from This Episode "I think sometimes we underestimate how much practice, how many flight hours or reps it takes to actually change." — Judit Teichert "When you take a new route the first time, you're in a deep jungle. You don't know what the next step looks like. That's why it feels so tense and sometimes threatening to do something you've never learned to do before." — Judit Teichert "Paradoxically, one of the strategies to manage loss is not to manage — but to hold." — Judit Teichert "Grief and sadness — their function is to support us to reorient. If we don't take that time, we're clinging to something and we cannot wholeheartedly commit to something new." — Judit Teichert "There's a deep hole in the sidewalk. I walk around it. And there's like the absence of any drama in that sentence. That's one of the biggest changes." — Judit Teichert The Poem: Autobiography in Five Chapters Judit shares Autobiography in Five Chapters by Portia Nelson — a short poem that captures the long arc of change: from falling into the same hole, to noticing the pattern, to finally walking a different street. Portia Nelson, "Autobiography in Five Chapters," from There's a Hole in My Sidewalk (1977). Short excerpts are quoted in this episode for reflection and discussion. All rights remain with the author's estate. We highly recommend reading the full poem, which offers a powerful meditation on awareness, responsibility, and change. Links & Resources KONU — Growing and Provoking Leadership https://konu.org On the Balcony Newsletter https://konu.org/balcony About Judit Teichert Judit Teichert is a Partner at KONU and Managing Director of KONU Germany. Her work is shaped by her own journey as a leader — learning to stay grounded under pressure, bring care into tough conversations, and align action with what truly matters. Her early experiences at the Lee Strasberg Theatre Institute in New York and as a licensed psychotherapist sharpened her ability to read human dynamics and support deep, sustainable change. She originally set out to become an actress — and left acting school with the humbling realization that her drive to "get it right" was getting in the way of being fully present. That insight has stayed with her ever since. Over more than a decade, she has worked as a facilitator, coach, and program designer with leadership teams across Europe, the Middle East, Asia, and the U.S. Her approach blends psychological depth with a systems perspective and strategic clarity — creating experiences that build trust and connection, encourage high standards and accountability, and lead to meaningful results. Next Episode New episodes drop every two weeks. Key Notes This episode complements Episode 1's focus on individual development (Immunity to Change) by exploring how insight translates into action through practice. Together with Episodes 2 and 3, it builds a picture of change that spans the cognitive, emotional, systemic, and behavioral. The poem Autobiography in Five Chapters offers a gentle, humorous mirror for anyone who has ever found themselves back in the same place — and a reminder that the hole doesn't disappear. We simply learn, over time, to walk around it. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    46 min
  5. Dr. Mary C. Gentile: Practicing Courage — How Values Become Action

    12/16/2025

    Dr. Mary C. Gentile: Practicing Courage — How Values Become Action

    Season 2 of On the Balcony continues by looking sideways — exploring frameworks that stretch Adaptive Leadership into new terrain. In this episode, Michael Koehler is joined by Dr. Mary C. Gentile, creator and director of Giving Voice to Values (GVV) and longtime professor of ethics and leadership. Mary’s work centers on a deceptively simple but deeply challenging question: How do we actually act on our values when it matters most? GVV begins with a clear premise: most of us already know what we believe is right. The real challenge is not ethical analysis — it’s ethical action. Throughout the conversation, Mary and Michael explore why good people so often stay silent, how organizations normalize small compromises, and what it takes to prepare ourselves to speak with clarity, credibility, and courage when the moment arrives. As Mary describes it, GVV is less about persuasion and more about practice and rehearsal — building the capacity to respond before we’re under pressure. What You’ll Explore in This EpisodeWhy knowing isn’t the problemGVV challenges the assumption that ethical failure stems from moral confusion. Instead, it asks what gets in the way after we know what we believe. Acting into clarityRather than waiting for confidence or certainty, GVV emphasizes practice. By scripting, rehearsing, and testing our responses, we grow into new ways of thinking and acting. A different starting questionInstead of asking “What’s the right thing to do?”, GVV begins with: “If I were going to act on my values, what would I say and do?” Anticipating pushbackMary shares how effective values-driven action requires anticipating resistance — the rationalizations, pressures, and fears that show up in real systems — and preparing responses that are grounded and practical. How GVV complements Adaptive LeadershipBoth frameworks support leaders in: acting amid uncertaintynavigating authority and risktolerating loss and resistancetaking responsibility without certaintyAsking powerful questionsExperimenting and learning GVV adds a practice-based bridge between values and action — especially in moments when silence feels safer. Voice, identity, and courageMary reflects on how speaking up is shaped by role, identity, and context — and how playing to one’s strengths (asking questions, telling stories, naming stakes) makes action more possible. Quotes from This Episode“Giving Voice to Values is not about persuading people to be more ethical. It’s about preparing people to act on the values they already hold.” — Dr. Mary C. Gentile “If you don’t remember anything else about Giving Voice to Values, remember this: it’s about asking a different question.” — Dr. Mary C. Gentile “The folks who study positive deviance have a good phrase. They say, if you want to have an impact on people’s behavior, rather than asking them to think their way into a different way of acting, it’s more impactful to ask them to act their way into a different way of thinking.” — Dr. Mary C. Gentile “We justify what we do, not by belief in its efficacy, but by an acceptance of its necessity.” — Karl Weick, Small Wins: Redefining the Scale of Social Problems (shared by Dr. Mary C. Gentile) Links & ResourcesGiving Voice to Values  https://www.GivingVoiceToValues.org Contact Dr. Mary C. Gentile  GentileM(at)darden.virginia.edu Giving Voice to Values: How to Speak Your Mind When You Know What’s Right Mary C. Gentile, Yale University Press Karl Weick (1984) “Small Wins: Redefining the Scale of Social Problems” American Psychologist, January 1984, p. 48 About Dr. Mary C. GentileDr. Mary C. Gentile is the creator and director of Giving Voice to Values (GVV), an internationally recognized approach to values-driven leadership development. Her work has been used in more than 1,500 educational and organizational settings worldwide, helping individuals and institutions move from ethical intention to ethical action. Next EpisodeNext time on On the Balcony, Michael is joined by Judit Teichert to explore cognitive behavioral theory — continuing the Season 2 inquiry into how insight becomes action. New episodes drop every two weeks. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    47 min
  6. Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian: The Hidden Life of Groups

    12/02/2025

    Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian: The Hidden Life of Groups

    When Your Team's Anxiety Is Actually the Answer Season 2 continues looking sideways — exploring frameworks that stretch Adaptive Leadership into new terrain. In this episode, Michael Koehler sits down with Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian, a psychoanalytic psychologist and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education. Candice's work focuses on systems psychodynamics — a field that helps us see the hidden life of groups. The conversation explores what lies beneath the surface of organizational life: the unconscious patterns, projections, and anxieties that shape what happens in teams and organizations long before anyone names them. What's fascinating is that this work sits in the background of Adaptive Leadership itself. Systems psychodynamics was one of the practices that informed Ron Heifetz's early teaching — and it remains a place where many practitioners go to sharpen their ability to consult with groups in real time. This episode feels like stepping behind the curtain of Adaptive Leadership — into the terrain where authority, anxiety, and imagination meet. What You'll Explore in This Episode:What systems psychodynamics is — and why it matters How this field helps us understand the hidden, unconscious social elements in groups that are highly impactful but intangible. The dynamics that shape whether work actually gets done. When anxiety is data, not disruption Why the distress in a group — the tension, reactivity, and discomfort — isn't something to manage away, but vital information about what the group actually needs. Learning to read anxiety as a signal rather than a problem to solve. Group relations conferences A unique learning experience where the content is the live experience of the group itself. No talks, no papers — just studying what emerges in real time as people navigate authority, roles, and group dynamics. Consulting without memory, intent, or desire A practice from Wilfred Bion about meeting groups with spaciousness and openness — not inserting your agenda or expectations, but listening for what the group actually needs in the moment. The intersection with Adaptive Leadership How systems psychodynamics deepens the practice of reading the "heat map" — understanding what the anxiety in a group is actually about, which tells you what the group needs. Anxiety isn't random noise; it's a compass pointing toward the adaptive challenge. Why this work matters now The origins of systems psychodynamics in studying authoritarian regimes and the Holocaust — and why these insights are resources for navigating the rise of authoritarianism today. The role of the consultant as instrument How practitioners open themselves as channels through which hidden, unconscious dynamics can surface and be named. When the group triggers you publicly, that's not about you — it's telling you how high the distress is in the system. Quotes from This Episode:"We're carrying all this stuff, and my stuff dances with your stuff dances with the third person, and it creates this whole thing in and of itself." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "These unseen forces are born from our individual histories, assumptions, and feelings, which merge to create a powerful collective dynamic that is highly impactful, but difficult to see." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "Everything is data. So if this group has found a way to trigger me in a way that actually makes me publicly reactive, that tells me that's how high the distress is. It is not about me." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "To lead effectively, we must learn to see these hidden dynamics not as personal attacks, but as vital data that reveals what the group truly needs to make progress on its most important work." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "You are paying attention to this stuff not to navel-gaze, but because you're trying to get work done. You're trying to understand more clearly what might be impeding progress." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "The experience of the group is the content of study." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian "Your instrument of self, of body, of energy, of spirit has to be in some relative open space — open a channel — so that these hidden, unconscious things can travel through you to be known." — Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian Links & Resources:A.K. Rice Institute for the Study of Social Systems (Group Relations Conferences) https://www.akriceinstitute.org/ Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian's Faculty Profile https://www.gse.harvard.edu/directory/faculty/candice-crawford-zakian About Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian:Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian is a psychoanalytic psychologist and lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she teaches in the doctoral program "Practicing Leadership from the Inside and Out" alongside Michael Koehler and Dr. Lisa Lahey. Her work focuses on systems psychodynamics and group relations — helping individuals and organizations understand the unconscious dynamics that shape group life, authority, and leadership. She is also a musician, singer, and songwriter, bringing a creative lens to her practice. Candice came to this work after a transformative experience at a group relations conference while working in the startup chaos of XM Satellite Radio. That week-long conference changed the trajectory of her professional life and sent her back to school for psychology. Next Episode: Dr. Mary Gentile on Giving Voice to Values — bridging the gap between what we believe is right and what we actually do. New episodes drop every two weeks. KEY NOTES:This episode complements Episode 1's focus on individual development (Immunity to Change) by exploring group-level dynamics. Together, they show how personal and systemic forces interact — why change is hard both internally and in the systems we inhabit. The practice of "consulting without memory, intent, or desire" offers a powerful counterpoint to more directive leadership approaches — creating space for groups to discover what they actually need rather than what we think they should do. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    48 min
  7. Dr. Lisa Lahey: Are You Secretly Working Against Your Own Growth?

    11/18/2025

    Dr. Lisa Lahey: Are You Secretly Working Against Your Own Growth?

    Season 2 of On the Balcony begins by looking sideways — exploring the frameworks that stretch Adaptive Leadership into new terrain. In this first episode, Michael Koehler sits down with Dr. Lisa Lahey, co-author of Immunity to Change, faculty at the Harvard University Graduate School of Education and co-founder of Minds at Work. Lisa's work on adult development has profoundly shaped how we understand leadership — not as a set of skills to acquire, but as an internal capacity to grow. The conversation explores a question many of us wrestle with: Why do we resist the very changes we say we want? Lisa's answer: competing commitments and big assumptions. We're not just resisting change. We're protecting something we care deeply about — even when we don't realize it. This episode gets personal. Lisa coaches Michael through his own immunity to change around pushing his colleagues to use more AI. What emerges is a powerful demonstration of how our internal "immune system" keeps us safe — and stuck. What You'll Explore in This Episode:The shift from socialized to self-authoring mind How we move from looking outside ourselves for approval to authoring our own values and commitments — and why this developmental shift matters for leadership. The Immunity to Change framework A practical, four-column exercise that uncovers the hidden commitments and big assumptions creating resistance to change. A live coaching session Lisa walks Michael through the process in real time, revealing how deeply protective mechanisms work — and how to begin testing the assumptions that hold us back. How adult development and Adaptive Leadership are related Both frameworks help us face complexity, hold competing commitments, and grow through challenge rather than around it. The influence of Chris Argyris How Argyris's work on organizational learning shaped both Lisa's thinking and the broader field of developmental leadership. The power of the pause A reflection on pausing not as a luxury, but as an act of deep responsibility to ourselves and the world. Quotes from This Episode:"You can grow your capacity to experience the world in different ways. And that difference keeps enabling you to hold greater complexity, take more perspectives, and handle greater ambiguity." — Dr. Lisa Lahey "There is a next place in development where you no longer are subject to meeting everybody's expectations of you. Instead, you get to be the author of your own expectations — grounded in your own sense of who you are and what you value." — Dr. Lisa Lahey "You have an aspiration to grow. You want to develop some capacity. And yet at the very same time, unbeknownst to you, you've got a whole inner curriculum actively working to protect yourself." — Dr. Lisa Lahey "The immunity to change process invites us to consider: we don't just have worries. We actually have a part of us actively committed to making sure those worries don't come true." — Dr. Lisa Lahey "It is not a luxury to pause. It is an act of deep responsibility to ourselves and the world." — Tara Brach (shared by Dr. Lisa Lahey) Links & Resources:Immunity to Change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey https://www.amazon.com/Immunity-Change-Overcome-Unlock-Organization/dp/1422117367 Minds at Work https://mindsatwork.com/ About Dr. Lisa Lahey:Dr. Lisa Lahey is co-founder of Minds at Work and co-author of Immunity to Change and An Everyone Culture. She is a lecturer at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, where she co-teaches "Practicing Leadership from the Inside and Out" with Michael Koehler. Her work focuses on adult development, organizational transformation, and the internal dimensions of leadership. Next Episode: Dr. Candice Crawford-Zakian on systems psychodynamics and the unconscious life of groups. New episodes drop every two weeks. Mentioned in this episode: What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    1 hr

  8. 11/09/2022

    The Evolution of Leadership Without Easy Answers with Professor Ronald Heifetz

    On today’s season finale of On the Balcony, Michael Kohler welcomes Professor Ronald Heifetz, author of Leadership Without Easy Answers, the book that has formed the focus of this season. Professor Heifetz is among the world’s foremost authorities on the practice and teaching of leadership. His work addresses two challenges: developing a conceptual foundation for the analysis and practice of leadership and developing transformative methods for leadership education, training, and consultation. Heifetz  opens the episode by discussing how his own thinking in  last thirty years has been shaped by his role as a parent. He points out that parenting is fundamentally a series of adaptive challenges requiring the ability to deal with the unpredictable—a good model for thinking about the ongoing stream of challenges that organizations, companies, governments, and our societies as a whole are facing. Michael then asks Ron to reflect on the development of Leadership Without Easy Answers and how the Leadership Studies field has evolved since its publication. Heifetz shares some of the family history and personal experiences that influenced his thinking and led him to consider how charismatic authority emerges and how to teach leadership practice that would avoid the temptations of grandiosity and power. He also discusses his process of realizing that authority is not fundamentally bad or unnecessary but is an integral part of social relationships with its own virtues and significance and must be wielded with responsibility and trustworthiness. On the subject of trust, Heifetz next points out how common it is to experience violations or abuses of trust by authority and how many of us learn to distrust it as a result. He uses the example of politicians to illustrate this, pointing out that the fear of negativity often leads to a lack of trust on both sides of the relationship with their constituents, resulting in pandering rather than transformative leadership. He also points out that the COVID pandemic provided a useful set of cases to illustrate the impact of trust, with countries with lower trust in authority having higher death rates, the US being a prime example. Heifetz goes on to discuss the work of repairing and restoring trust, including encouraging those in roles of authority to develop a mindset of ongoing repair instead of an entitlement to trust. He also focuses on the challenge of mobilizing people to do adaptive work and the importance of developing new, more empathetic strategies for creating sustainable change in the hearts and minds of those who resist it. In order to make progress, he states that it’s essential that those in positions of authority and privilege are involved in the adaptive work, so we must resist the urge to resort to a cheap binary-ism of rejection and understand the difficulty of jettisoning one’s culture and traditions wholesale. And, to close the episode and the season, Heifetz shares his thoughts on what the future holds for him and his framework, including a refocusing of Leadership Studies onto cultural innovation and evolution. The Finer Details of This Episode: The adaptive challenges of parenthoodThe evolution of the Leadership Studies fieldThe virtues and significance of authorityHow politicians can lead and stay aliveQuotients of trust and the COVID pandemicThe practice of repairing and restoring trustActivism and mobilizing people to do adaptive workThe need for leadership at the micro levelThe future for Leadership Studies Quotes: “We can’t afford to have an allergic reaction to authority systems just because they’ve been abusive to many of us historically.” “We all are designed to seek validation, affirmation, and even affection.” “We see politicians change their tune—not because they’ve learned about the world and fortunately keep evolving their points of view, but simply because the constituency has changed its point of view.” “The politician changes their point of view in order to gain the affirmation and ultimately then the authorization of that constituency.” Links: On the Balcony on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast Leadership Without Easy Answers on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Without-Answers https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/ronald-heifetz Mentioned in this episode: OtB_KONU_Nov promo OtB_KONU_Nov promo What Stayed? A Post-Season Gathering for Listeners. If something from this season followed you home—a moment of attention, a recognition, a question you're still sitting with—you are not alone. Join us for "What Stayed," a 90-minute gathering featuring intimate breakout conversations to explore what resonated. Limited spots are available. Come sit with us. Reserve your spot for March 31st: https://konu.org/events/on-the-balcony-what-stayed

    1h 9m
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About

On The Balcony is a podcast for change agents, executives and people who care about developing others. In this kick-off season Michael Koehler and his guests examine Ronald Heifetz’s landmark book: “Leadership Without Easy Answers,” the framework behind the most inspiring leadership class at Harvard University. The show offers powerful reflections and live coaching on today’s most pressing challenges. Learn more about Michael and his work at www.konu.org

Information

  • Creator
    KONU
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    21
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © Copyright 2026 KONU
  • Show Website
    On The Balcony

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