The Dance Lens Podcast

WHERE DANCE MEETS ART, HISTORY, POLITICS & SOCIAL (RE)EVOLUTIONS

Dance exists at the intersection of fashion, history, art, politics, fashion, ritual and social evolutions. Through interviews, reviews, story times and behind the scenes we'll take a deeper look at the art form's history, industry and artists. thedancelens.substack.com

  1. 6d ago

    A Hard Road, Not a Strange One: Building Ballet in East Africa

    Students at Ballet Dance Studio UG in class with their director and teacher Dennis David Kazibwe Dear Reader, Dance is already a tough business, and its challenges are compounded when operating in an area without an established company or theater. And we owe a great debt to all the producers, teachers, dancers and choreographers who brought their crafts to new audiences—developing schools and companies outside of the establishment—their work created ballet’s technical richness and stylistic variety. Ballet’s earliest roots are in the Italian, and soon thereafter, royal French courts, where it functioned as both creative outlet and sometimes artistic propaganda for the ruling class. Even today it's easy enough to associate the art form with places like Paris, St. Petersburg, New York, and London. In reality, however, ballet is not a cultural artifact but a language—one that can be spoken by anyone willing to enter its studios and its stages. And it is a language still spreading across the globe, finding new voices and new talents, and developing new styles. But who is responsible for carrying and sharing its technique and its repertoire? For creating new ballets and developing new dancers? This formidable task falls to the teachers, coaches, and other keepers of the art form. Today I am over the moon to introduce you to my guest and friend: Dennis David Kazibwe—the founder and creative director of Ballet Dance Studio UG in Kampala, Uganda, a ballet-focused dance institution committed to developing young dancers and building world-class opportunities in East and Central Africa. Below is our lightly edited interview. Listen to the full conversation in the podcast above. Enjoy! And let me know what you think. Warmly, Cynthia CYNTHIA: Ballet hasn’t been in Kampala for very long, as far as I understand it. When you tell someone in Kampala that you teach ballet, what is their usual reaction? KAZIBWE: So usually when I tell someone that I actually teach ballet, they often think ballet is related to France, to Italy, to Russia. So they actually think I’m involved in an art form for rich people. I come from a very rich family and I’m well traveled, well learned. So it also gives me an opportunity to share with them and let them know that ballet is not only known for Russians, for French people, or for Italians, or for the rich community. So it gives me a chance to let them know that anyone can actually learn ballet. And ballet’s just a dance, just like you could talk about hip-hop or Latin dance. CYNTHIA: And how do they react when you tell them that? Are people interested? KAZIBWE: So even when I tell them that any community can take on ballet, even Africa, they’re like, “Ah, yeah, they’re rich people, of course. They’re rich people, of course.” So it gives me a chance to let them know that it can be quite pricey, but we are trying our level best to make it affordable and also attainable within our communities. And they listen to me. And by the time I usually leave, because of my passion, they actually feel like they would love to be part of it. CYNTHIA: Great. And how would you describe what Ballet Dance Studio UG actually is right now? How many dancers, what ages, where do you teach? I mean, what studios do you use? KAZIBWE: Ballet Dance Studio UG is a growing school. And we do not want to just be a place where children come and dance. That’s the other thing. So in my country, probably it could be in the entire Africa, most people think that ballet is done by babies. So I don’t want it to be just a place that people think this is where children come and dance and probably express themselves. It’s a place that creates hope. It’s a place where children learn to be disciplined, to learn to be resilient. They learn different values of life. Just like if a child went to a traditional school and they learned different disciplines in terms of chemistry, biology, mathematics, this is just a different discipline, or a different place that children, even adults, can come and attain these values. So currently we have about 30 consistent students. We start from ages three and above. So we have the petite group, which is between ages three to six, and then we have the junior group that is from seven to 12, and then we have the intermediates that is from 13 until 18, and then we also have the adults. And this year happens to be the first period that we actually got adults. By adults, I mean from ages 22 and above that are signing up to take on ballet. Yes, I feel it’s a big achievement for us this year. Have you gotten your Nutcracker tickets yet? The delightful touring production NUTCRACKER! Magical Christmas Ballet and their international cast are coming to a city near you. Find your tickets HERE . See you at the show? CYNTHIA: I love to hear this. And where did ballet first enter your life? What is your training? What’s your background like? KAZIBWE: TV, yes. I first heard about, or actually watched, ballet on TV, and it looks flawless. Just like Latin dancing and hip-hop and all that, because most of us, the first beat that we get to know is Michael Jackson. So I would say Michael Jackson, the first person. Then you get to see this dance that has got a lot of flexibility and all that. People are jumping over, the ladies are twirling, and they have all those tours, and you actually think they’re walking on their toes. But over time, I have got to learn from different teachers, and I was so lucky. My very first teacher was Miss Julia Adrighetti. She studied at the Bolshoi. So she came over to Uganda, and we met, and I shared my desire and passion with her. And she taught me the first intensive in her backyard, in the apartment where she was staying. And she said, “You look very graceful, but you’re very athletic.” So she mentioned I need to be a little more soft instead of rigid. So that was my first struggle in ballet. Then from there, I picked up from Mzansi Ballet (in South Africa, owned by Dirk Badenhorst) under the guidance of Professor Ioshi, from Cuban ballet methodology. I was even so lucky that I’ve actually had a chance to interact with Mario Gaglione from Joburg Ballet. So it’s been a beautiful experience over time. So I would say it’s been lots of teachers that I’ve been able to encounter. Talk about you yourself. I have had a chance to interact with you and get to know more about ballet from you as well. Yes. Students in rehearsal at Ballet Dance Studio UG CYNTHIA: The pleasure’s been all mine. In your studies, you went from seeing it on TV and seeing these phenomenal world-class dancers, and then studying with your teachers. Was there a difference between what you thought ballet was versus the experience once you’re actually in it? KAZIBWE: So ballet on TV looks flawless. Very flawless, very easy. Very doable. It’s the simplest dance, in fact. You can do everything in your mind until they ask you to do it. And you’re like, “Oh, but she did it. She jumped like this. Why can’t I jump like that? She turned like this, but why can’t I turn like this?” Yeah, so a lot has changed over time. You realize that it could take tons and tons of months for you to perfect just one pirouette. A lot of consistency, a lot of resiliency, a lot of understanding the dynamics of executing these different steps. That’s what I’ve discovered over time. Yes. CYNTHIA: I think this is the same surprise that we all have when we come into it. There’s the dream and then there’s the reality of the process. Was there a moment you can point to where ballet stopped being an interest and became the thing that you were going to devote your life to? KAZIBWE: Yeah. It is a very, very big decision. Before I decided to open up a ballet school, I used to do a lot of things. And I usually tell this story, that I was volunteering with the UNA Association in Uganda. And we had a project with my brother. So we go to an event and my brother tells me, “You know what? I think we need to do like a get-together where people come together and dance.” So we create this event. One of the gentlemen created a dance step, and I did the dance step, and my brother loved it and everyone did it. So my brother told me, “You could actually become a very good dance teacher.” So from there, something hits me, and I feel that, you know what? You could start something that you could earn from, but it could also be something that you actually love. Now, I’m the kind of person that does not like competition. So during that period, ballet was the thing that never had any competition. So I started the studio, and I was doing hip-hop, I was doing dancehall, I was doing ballet, I was doing contemporary and all that. It was pretty expensive for me. And again, my brother came back and told me, “Dave, you’re doing too much. I don’t think you need to do all these dance styles. I think you need to choose one dance that is going to define you.” When I heard that, I was like, you know what? The thing that I feel that I should do is ballet. Because as an individual, they usually say you either die for something or die for nothing at all. So I felt the thing that I would die for—yes—ballet. So every time they mention Kazibwe, the only thing that I wanted to linger in people’s minds was ballet in Uganda. And the best way to do that was to start a school. So that’s the point where I decided, you know what? Is it ballet you want to die for? Then go for that. So at the moment, everyone here knows that I am a ballet dancer and a ballet teacher. Students at Ballet Dance Studio UG with their teacher and director Dennis David Kazibwe CYNTHIA: I have been lucky enough to get to talk to you over the years, but I don’t think we’ve ever really gotten into this story, and it’s so enjoyable to hear it from the top. Around how old were you when your brother said, “Oh, you should d

  2. Sep 23

    The Business of Ballet Is Not What You Think

    INTERVIEW WITH MORGAN MCEWEN: What do advocacy, construction and the GDP have to do with the future of ballet? According to Morgan McEwen—Artistic Director and founder of MorDance—plenty. McEwen spent nearly two decades as a professional ballerina at the Metropolitan Opera, BalletMet, Richmond Ballet. She describes how it ended this way: “Two decades as a ballerina really pushed me to my breaking point, which was starting a ballet company.” That company is MorDance, founded in 2014 while she was still dancing at the Met. It’s now a company in rapid ascent: a budget up nearly 700% in four years, a move from Manhattan to Dobbs Ferry, and $3 million in state funding, a third of that for economic development. In other words, the state sees this dance company as an investment in society’s financial health. The arts, in addition to being the best of what humanity has to offer, are a massive economic driver. Their output is more than agriculture, more than mining, more than transportation and warehousing—according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis and the NEA, the arts contribute 4.2% of U.S. GDP, about on par with construction. That’s $1.17 trillion and 5.4 million jobs. Yes, you read that right. Why all this talk of budgets and GDPs when MorDance's artistic point of view could fill a podcast of its own? Because, as McEwen puts it, "who holds the keys to the infrastructure determines whose stories are told." Join us for a conversation about what the arts are worth and what artists and arts orgs can do to make their case. Find MorDance website HERE, Instagram HERE and tickets for the Oct 2nd Gala HERE. JOIN US ON THE DANCE LENS SUBSTACK HERE FOR MORE REVIEWS, INTERVIEWS, DEEP DIVES AND LIVES! Get full access to The Dance Lens with Cynthia Dragoni at thedancelens.substack.com/subscribe

  3. Sep 2

    The Making of Mulan

    Making its New York debut this month is the dance drama Mulan, winner of the China Dance Lotus Award, the highest honor in Chinese dance. Mulan is a sweeping, visually spectacular reimagining of one of China’s most enduring legends: a young woman who disguises herself as a man to take her father’s place on the battlefield, and rises to eternal renown. The production blends classical Chinese dance with martial arts, staged on a fifteen-meter revolving stage. It plays Lincoln Center’s Koch Theater for four performances only, September 18th through the 20th. Today we’re speaking with two of the leads about what these characters mean to them and what it took to bring this production to life: Tang Xinyi as Mulan, and Wang Zheng as General Wei. Special thanks to our interpreter, Amber, for making this conversation possible. Join us for the performances September 18th through the 20th, 2026 in New York City. Ticket links HERE. *** Don't forget NUTCRACKER! Magical Christmas Ballet is coming to town on its national tour. You can get Dance Lens exlcusive discount tickets here *** Ballet book recommendation: The Fern Flower As the daughter of the Tsar’s favored vodka maker, Mila has everything: wealth, status, a household devoted to her happiness. She also has a stepmother whose one ungranted wish — a child of her own — has curdled into cruelty. Every summer on Ivan Kupala Eve, Russia searches its riverbanks and forest floors for the Fern Flower, the mythical bloom said to grant fortune, power, and the deepest desire of the heart. In all of history, only one person has ever found it—until Mila… Get full access to The Dance Lens with Cynthia Dragoni at thedancelens.substack.com/subscribe

  4. Aug 12

    Boléro's Trance & Odalisques at The Met

    Mini interview with Hugo Marchand: Composed in 1928 for dancer and actress Ida Rubinstein, Ravel’s Boléro began as an experiment: an insistent melody repeated again and again while the orchestral color and intensity gradually changes . Rather than developing in the conventional sense, Boléro builds almost entirely through repetition, rhythm, instrumentation, arriving at an eventual crescendo. Its simplicity was provocative. It challenged expectations of what an orchestral work was supposed to do, creating something at once radically simple and deeply hypnotic. There are plenty of stories surrounding Boléro: Ravel calling it his “only masterpiece,” dismissing it as having “no music,” or responding approvingly to an audience member who called him mad. Whether these anecdotes are entirely true doesn’t really matter. They speak to the work’s paradoxical character. Ravel was a meticulous, sophisticated composer who deliberately stripped his music down to its essentials, then watched this experiment become an international sensation. Its unforgettable melody, relentless pulse, and dramatic buildup have since carried it far beyond the concert hall, from the 1984 Olympics to film, television, and major public events. Boléro is compelling because it seems so simple. Beneath its repetition is a calculated tension between restraint and excess, order and obsession, culminating in a finale that feels inevitable—and yet is still startling. The ballet Boléro premiered at the Paris Opera on November 22, 1928. The original choreography was by Bronislava Nijinska, with sets and scenario by Alexandre Benois. The premiere was a major success, and although Ravel’s music became more famous as a standalone orchestral work, its origins as a piece for dance remained part of its identity. The most influential later choreographic interpretation came from Maurice Béjart, whose Boléro premiered in Brussels in 1961. Béjart radically reimagined the work. Rather than illustrating the Spanish setting of Nijinska’s original, his choreography distilled the ballet into a charged, sensual ritual, with a central dancer embodying the melody while the surrounding group embodies the relentless rhythm. The central role was later famously taken by Jorge Donn, beginning in 1979, and Béjart’s version became one of the defining choreographic interpretations of the score. Hugo Marchand, the internationally acclaimed Paris Opera Étoile, recently performed the work as the central piece of a larger show that he curated. I had a chance to speak with him for a few brief moments before his recent performances at New York City Center. We spoke about what Boléro means to him, his approach to the work, and the state of the arts—in this case, dance—in France. Marchand joined the Paris Opera Ballet in 2011 and was named an Étoile in 2017 at the age of 23, following a performance of La Sylphide in Tokyo, where he danced the role of James. That same year, he won the Benois de la Danse for Best Male Dancer, recognized particularly for his performance as Romeo in Rudolf Nureyev’s Romeo and Juliet. He has since developed a broad repertoire spanning classical, neoclassical, and contemporary choreography, dancing the work of choreographers including George Balanchine, William Forsythe, John Cranko, Crystal Pite, and Jerome Robbins, among many others. He received a second Benois de la Danse for Best Male Dancer in 2023. Get full access to The Dance Lens with Cynthia Dragoni at thedancelens.substack.com/subscribe

  5. Jul 22

    Still Becoming—an Interview with Lloyd Knight

    For over twenty years, Lloyd Knight has been one of the defining artists of the Martha Graham Dance Company, embodying works that have shaped modern dance while continuously expanding beyond them. Since joining the company in 2005 and rising to principal dancer in 2014, Knight has become one of the foremost interpreters of the Graham repertory, while also creating new works with choreographers including Nacho Duato, Kyle Abraham, Doug Varone, Lar Lubovitch, Pam Tanowitz, and Mats Ek. Along the way, he has partnered with artists such as Wendy Whelan and Misty Copeland, appeared as a guest artist with Royal Ballet of Flanders and Twyla Tharp Dance, and earned recognition as one of Dance Magazine‘s “25 to Watch,” the magazine’s 2015 Best Performer, and a 2022 Bessie Award nominee. As the Martha Graham Dance Company celebrates its centennial season, Knight continues to balance the weight of history with a remarkable curiosity for new creation. Most recently, he premiered The Drama, a deeply personal solo work created with Jack Ferver and filmmaker Jeremy Jacob, exploring his artistic lineage through the intertwined influence of his mother and Martha Graham. Ahead of his performances in Andrew Skeels’ new work, Meanwhile, at Carvalho gallery’s Summer Performance Series, I sat down with Knight to talk about artistic evolution, collaboration, what it means to carry one of dance’s great legacies, and why, even after two decades with Graham, he’s still searching for what’s next. Interview is lightly edited below. Listen to the full conversation in the podcast above. Lloyd Knight in Andrew Skeels’ Meanwhile. Photo: Quinn Wharton Cynthia: It’s been over twenty years since you joined Martha Graham Dance Company. When you look back at the dancer who arrived from New World School of the Arts versus who you are now, what’s the biggest shift in how you understand your own artistry and the repertoire? Lloyd: Probably the ownership that I have within myself as an artist, a dancer, the way I approach the work. Coming into the company, I was just really fresh and green about so many things—even the ways to perform. You’re dropped in the middle of these iconic works. It’s a journey that you go on to find your groove in it, and luckily we have great coaches and past and present company members who can help you out along the way. I would say that’s been the biggest change in me, I don’t want to use the word comfortable, because I never want to be comfortable with what I’m doing. But I feel a little bit more ownership with my artistry. Cynthia: I know a lot of people in our audience are not necessarily dancers. Can you give me maybe an example of how that would change the experience of performing in a certain work? Lloyd: One thing about the Graham work is that I always call it a full experience. It’s not just coming into this black box, the lights come on, and you just do the steps. We have sets and these great costumes, and the way she designed her technique—the way you hold your neck and your back. You’re literally trying to catch the light on your body, on your cheekbones. It’s really full. That is along the lines of what I’ve learned the most about entering the Graham stage, entering as a full character and taking the audience on a ride, but also yourself. So at the end of the show, you walk away fully engulfed with what you did, and you feel like you accomplished that, or try to at least. Xin Ying and Lloyd Knight performing in Martha Graham's Acts of Light (1981). Photo Courtesy of Ballet Support Foundation. The Dance Lens with Cynthia Dragoni is a reader-supported publication. Subscribe below to join us for subscriber only live talks and interviews (like this one). Cynthia: Was there a turning point when you went from “This isn’t mine” to “This is mine”? Lloyd: Maybe around second, third year, I started learning soloist roles, and that’s the best, because you really take on a character. I always say to people who ask, my favorite ballets are the ones where you don’t leave the stage, you have to stay on the whole time. I started learning the Snake in Graham’s Embattled Garden, and we were rehearsing it, and rehearsal’s fine, you go through the ins and outs of all that rehearsal brings, but it was something about performing it, the curtain going down, and just being like, “Oh my God, what just happened?” You really lose yourself, and you go on that ride, and looking at the rest of the cast we’re like, “Whoa, we really lived that,” full body. I feel like that was a turning point—learning Embattled Garden—and that’s when I really understood the depth of a Graham work. Before that, I was learning corps roles, which is amazing, in Acts of Light and Diversion of Angels. But it was really taking on these iconic characters that’s I just loved. Cynthia: I think it’s so interesting how much vocabulary Graham shares still with ballet. Even though she’s the mother of modern dance, a dance historian will be quick to point out all the people that came before her but she was so pivotal, and we still call her works ballets, and you still refer to the group as the corps de ballet. Lloyd: Yeah. Surprises people. Lloyd Knight in Halston’s costume for Martha Graham’s Lucifer. Photo: Jayme Thornton Cynthia: And you’ve said Graham technique is your first love. But you’ve since worked with an unusually wide range of choreographers, from Kyle Abraham to Mats Ek to Bob Fosse’s repertoire. How has moving between such different vocabularies changed the way you approach a brand-new piece? Lloyd: You do have to learn how to adapt to the choreographer you’re working with. I really try to do my homework ahead of time and see what they’re all about, and then once they’re in front of me, it’s really trying to strip myself of all my habits, or the way I want to move, and pick up what they’re giving us. Luckily in school at New World, we trained in a lot of different techniques, so I felt comfortable doing other things, they weren’t necessarily a mystery to me. But choreographers change, things evolve, and I remember Sidi Larbi Cherkaoui coming in to work with us, and I was like, “Whoa, what is this?” He’s very flexible, and the things he would do with his body, he would just show it to us as if it was nothing. He’s like, “Okay, and now it’s your turn.” And I’m like, “There’s no way.” He would break it down, and I was like, “Okay, I’m gonna get on this floor and try and do the work.” Little by little, I’ve learned you have to have patience and a sense of humor, and give yourself time—hopefully they give you time as well— to try and adapt to it. It’s so much fun to be a chameleon. Martha Graham and Bertram Ross in Alcestis, 1960. Photo by Martha Swope / © The New York Public Library. Jerome Robbins Dance Division, The New York Public Library for the Performing Arts. Cynthia: Has there been anyone’s work that was particularly challenging to make the shift between styles? For anyone who doesn’t know, Graham is not just a style, it’s a technique, it’s a way of working—like ballet dancers will have trouble with certain kinds of other styles because it’s so different, you’ll see a parallel in that with the Graham technique. Lloyd: I would say the biggest push was Mats Ek, the detail he puts in the work. I match it to Graham because of all the detail, but it was just so different. The piece we were doing was called Axe, and I was literally chopping wood on stage. I had to learn how to chop wood. I had to learn how to pick up his movement style. We spent weeks in Stockholm learning this piece. By the way it was just me and his wife, Anna, and the other cast members. I was in a Mats Ek intensive for several weeks, all day, every day, and I loved it because he’s a genius, a visual and movement genius to me. I would say that was maybe the most challenging because of all the different elements that came into it. Cynthia: I’ve heard that about his work from other dancers before. A lot of choreographers will allow you to learn the steps and then add your character, the emotions, your personal interpretation. But I’ve heard that with Mats Ek, he wanted your interpretation immediately. Lloyd: Totally. He really wants all of you for every single step, and he’s very giving with his descriptions and whatnot. I remember even that first run-through we had, and I cried because I really went on that journey. He’s a spectacular artist in that way. Epic. Cynthia: Not all dancers have an interest or the opportunity to create their own work. And you’ve created The Drama, and you’ve spoken before about how Jack Ferver pushed you out of your comfort zone into new emotional territory. What do you need from a choreographer to feel like you can take risks? Lloyd: To feel acceptance of myself as an artist, and being allowed to really be myself, to explore. I had seen Jack’s work many times, and when I got the opportunity to put The Drama together, I immediately thought about them, because the way they construct their work was something I really wanted to go towards and explore. Being at that residency with them, I felt really comfortable to just let it all out. Sometimes it was very embarrassing, but I knew I was in good hands. You always want to feel like you’re in good hands whenever you’re working with these choreographers. Sometimes, honestly, you might not gel completely with every choreographer, but at least you know that they respect you for your artistry, and they’re allowing you to bring something to their work. Lloyd Knight and Jacquelin Harris performing Andrew Skeels’ Meanwhile. Photo: Quinn Wharton. Cynthia: Do you have plans of doing more of your own work in the future? Lloyd: Yes, hopefully. I always keep that door open. I got to do The Drama in Cleveland, thankfully, and most recen

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
5 Ratings

About

Dance exists at the intersection of fashion, history, art, politics, fashion, ritual and social evolutions. Through interviews, reviews, story times and behind the scenes we'll take a deeper look at the art form's history, industry and artists. thedancelens.substack.com

You Might Also Like