Today’s conversation explores one of the most urgent questions of our time: What would our world look like if our economic system prioritized human and ecological wellbeing instead of endless growth? I’m joined by Omer Tayyab, researcher and collaborator with economist and author Jason Hickel (Less Is More). Omer works at the intersection of economic theory, political ecology, and democratic reform — with a special focus on degrowth, post-growth futures, and how societies can thrive within planetary boundaries. We met at the Autonomous University of Barcelona, where he’s currently based, and this episode turned into an expansive, energizing exploration of how we might redesign the systems that shape our daily lives — from work and wealth to democracy, technology, and community resilience. If you're curious about how to build a world that actually works for people and planet, this one’s for you. We cover: What Degrowth Actually MeansWhy “degrowth” is not austerity or “living with less”—but a pathway toward more wellbeing, more leisure, more connection, and more equity.How our current growth-driven system is structurally incompatible with ecological stability. Why “Less Is More” Changed Our Understanding of EconomicsThe key insights from Jason Hickel’s book and why it resonated so deeply.How capitalism’s central goal—maximizing profit rather than wellbeing—creates ecological overshoot and social harm. Rethinking Work and ProductivityWhy the modern economy forces us to produce things nobody needs, simply to keep money circulating.Alternatives that emphasize public services, care work, and meaningful contribution. COVID as a Case Study in System FragilityHow the pandemic revealed the brittleness of global supply chains.The risk of collective amnesia now that we’re “moving on” without actually solving the underlying vulnerabilities. Democracy, Polarization, and System IncentivesWhy many democracies behave like competitive reality shows—pitting groups against each other for votes.How democratic structures might be redesigned to emphasize deliberation, cooperation, and long-term thinking. Technology: Problem, Solution, or Both?Why efficiency alone cannot solve ecological collapse (“Jevons paradox”).Where technology does help—and where it simply accelerates throughput. Imagining a Future that WorksWhy a degrowth society is not about deprivation, but about liberation from unnecessary work, debt, and consumption.How communities across the world are piloting post-growth models right now. ResourcesLess Is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World, by Jason Hickel The Divide: Global Inequality from Conquest to Free Markets, by Jason Hickel Thinking in Systems: A Primer, by Donella Meadows Omer's LinkedIn Profile Omer on Twitter "a...
