Destination Discourse

Destination Discourse
  • 5.0 (13)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Weekly

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

  1. 3d ago

    88: Is Your DMO Protecting Itself Into Irrelevance? (Chris Fair)

    Most DMOs talk about economic impact. Chris Fair, CEO of Resonance Co and author of the annual Best Cities report, talks about something harder to measure — and more consequential: whether a city is actually lovable. In this episode, Fair shares data from Resonance's perception vs. performance analysis across hundreds of destinations. The gap between how a place performs on objective metrics and how people actually feel about it is where most DMO strategies fall apart. DMOs that focus narrowly on defending their budget and organizational territory are becoming obsolete — while cities that integrate tourism, economic development, and community quality into a unified lovability strategy are pulling ahead. The conversation gets into why the traditional DMO model is structurally misaligned with how people actually choose destinations today, what the Best Cities data reveals about which markets are winning and why, and what it would take for a DMO to genuinely lead a city's positioning rather than just promote it. Bottom Line: DMOs that protect their narrow lane are engineering their own irrelevance. The ones that survive will be the ones willing to own the harder question - not just "are people visiting?" but "do people love this place?" - and build the cross-sector partnerships to do something about it.

    51 min

  2. Jun 25

    87: Would Your Stakeholders Fight to Keep You If You Disappeared Tomorrow? (Gary Sherwin)

    Most DMOs measure success in website clicks and visitor guide downloads. Gary Sherwin has spent 20 years at Visit Newport Beach asking a harder question: if you disappeared tomorrow, would your stakeholders call you essential - or just convenient? This episode covers the implications of Google I/O, where itinerary builders and shopping carts inside search may soon make the DMO website an afterthought, through to Gary's case that technology disruption has never been the real threat. He's seen the internet, the OTAs, and now AI - and DMOs that survived all three did it by becoming indispensable to their communities. That means funnel reviews where hotels open their full pipeline and you strategize on closing business together. It means crashing the BAFTAs in London without asking permission and building an event PBS eventually broadcasts to millions. It means a private funding model where major hotels voluntarily give Visit Newport Beach 5% of revenue on 10-year deals - because they've decided it's worth it. Stuart and Adam push back on the Google question, debate agentic search, and ask whether DMOs are harvesting demand their partners should be converting themselves. Bottom Line: The technology disruption is real, but it isn't the existential threat. The threat is DMOs that stay convenient instead of becoming essential. Gary's prescription: build relationships deep enough that your stakeholders fight for you, not just renew with you.

    58 min

  3. Jun 18

    86: Are You Still Doing Work That AI Should Be Doing For You? (Dan Holowack & Jeanette Roush)

    Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back Dan Holowack (CrowdRift) and Jeanette Roush (Brand USA) for a tactical deep dive into how DMOs are actually using AI day-to-day. The episode opens with a provocative Stu's News: 92% of respondents to an AI-enthusiast newsletter poll said they want more regulation — a number that surprises even the hosts. The group unpacks the growing backlash, from commencement speech boos to younger generations feeling shut out of the American dream, and why communicating purpose may matter more than promising prosperity. The conversation then shifts to practical tools. Jeanette and Dan break down voice-to-text tools like Monologue and WhisperFlow — how they outperform traditional dictation, boost speed 3–4x, and why building the habit is the hardest part. The group also digs into Granola and the Plod recording device: how Brand USA deployed them across their entire IPW team, creating a shared, queryable knowledge base from every meeting. Stuart shares how building Claude skills has cut his podcast publishing time nearly in half, and the group challenges DMOs to audit their workflows and identify what AI can automate today. Bottom Line: The tools are here, they work, and the gap between DMOs using 20% of AI's potential and those using 70% is growing fast. Start with voice, start with meetings, and start building skills — the technology is no longer the barrier.

    54 min

  4. Jun 11

    85: Are DMOs Focused on the Wrong Things at the Worst Possible Time? (Emily Zertuche)

    What happens when destination marketing organizations start optimizing for short-term ROI at the exact moment AI is fundamentally changing how travelers discover destinations? In this thought-provoking episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker welcome back recurring guest Emily Zertuche for one of the most important conversations the show has tackled yet. The discussion dives deep into Emily’s latest Substack article and the growing disconnect between what DMOs are prioritizing and how traveler behavior is rapidly evolving in the AI era. As generative AI increasingly becomes the “decision-making layer” between travelers and destinations, the trio explores why brand visibility, citations, and discoverability may matter more than traditional performance metrics like clicks and conversions. Topics include: Why DMOs may be focused on the wrong things at the worst possible time The shift from attribution to citation in the AI era How AI is changing destination discoverability Why cutting top-of-funnel brand investment could become catastrophic The rise of the “visibility economy” The danger of optimizing for the next board meeting instead of the next decade Why DMOs must rethink their purpose, KPIs, and stakeholder relationships How destinations can create “content armies” to remain visible in AI-generated travel planning Practical ways organizations can begin adopting AI internally right now The episode also features a Stu’s News segment covering how companies like OpenAI and Anthropic are accelerating AI adoption through hands-on business implementation and training programs. Whether you’re a DMO executive, marketer, tourism professional, or simply trying to understand how AI will reshape the future of travel marketing, this is a conversation you don’t want to miss.

    1 hr

  5. Jun 4

    84: Can DMOs Fill the Void Left by Local Media? (Dan Gibson)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Dan Gibson, CEO of Visit McMinnville and former journalist, to explore the collapse of local media — and what DMOs should do about it. Topics include:• Anthropic's Claude for Small Business launch and what it means for destination marketers• The state of local journalism and the storytelling void it leaves behind• Whether DMOs should step up as media outlets — and the real risks of going too far• How Dan grew Visit McMinnville's digital presence with a lean team and tight budget• Why authenticity beats production value in destination content The Bottom Line: Local media isn't coming back. DMOs have a real opportunity — and responsibility — to fill that void with authentic, community-driven storytelling. Start small, be consistent, and make it sustainable. Connect with Dan Gibson on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dangibson Destination Discourse is hosted by Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, and produced by Miles Partnership. Subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

    1 hr

  6. May 28

    83: What Is the Real Purpose of a DMO? (LIVE from DI MarCom 2026)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker share a live session recorded at Destinations International’s MarCom Summit, where they challenge the industry to rethink the role, purpose, and value of destination marketing organizations. The live conversation focuses on a first-principles question every DMO should be asking: Why do we exist? From there, Stuart and Adam explore who the DMO’s primary audience really is, how destination organizations should define success, and why the industry needs more honest debate about its future. Before the live session, Stuart and Adam set the tone by talking about the need for more respectful disagreement in destination marketing. They discuss the “tyranny of politeness,” the danger of avoiding hard conversations, and why real discourse is necessary if DMOs want to remain relevant in a rapidly changing travel landscape. While part of the original live recording was lost due to a technical issue, the remaining session captures a timely and important discussion about the future of DMOs and the need to move beyond inherited assumptions. Key Takeaways DMOs need to define their role from first principles, not legacy habits. The industry must be willing to debate difficult questions respectfully. The primary audience and purpose of a DMO are not always as obvious as they seem. Avoiding disagreement can prevent boards, teams, and destinations from making better decisions. The future of destination marketing will require more clarity, courage, and relevance.

    50 min

  7. May 21

    82: What Should DMOs Actually Be Doing With AI Right Now? (Janette Roush and Dan Holowack)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by AI leaders Janette Roush and Dan Holowack for a fast-moving, no-fluff conversation on where AI is actually going—and what DMOs are missing right now. After some classic banter (and a custom-made Stu’s News jingle created at the gym), the conversation quickly shifts into a deeper look at how tools like Claude are evolving—from simple chat interfaces into full operating systems for work. 🧠 Key Takeaways 1. The shift is from “using AI” to “working inside AI.”The biggest mindset change isn’t about better prompts—it’s about moving your entire workflow into AI. Instead of bouncing between tools, AI becomes the central environment where work happens. 2. Speed of change is eliminating excuses.What wasn’t possible a few weeks ago is now possible. Waiting for the “right time” to adopt AI is no longer viable. 3. DMOs need an AI champion—now.If there’s one actionable takeaway: assign (or hire) someone responsible for AI across the organization. This person doesn’t need to be highly technical, but must be curious, capable, and empowered. 4. Organization-wide adoption beats individual experimentation.Letting employees experiment independently creates fragmentation. The real opportunity is aligning teams around shared tools, shared context, and shared workflows. 5. Build a “master context” for your organization.Centralizing your brand, strategy, and knowledge into a structured AI-readable format ensures consistency—and dramatically improves output quality. 6. Culture matters as much as tools.Adoption requires permission. Teams need psychological safety to experiment, fail, and share what they’re learning without fear. 7. AI will eliminate administrative work first.Reporting, data gathering, slide creation, and repetitive workflows are already being automated—freeing teams to focus on higher-value thinking. 8. Leaders should ask for data—not reports.Instead of static summaries, AI enables dynamic exploration. Point AI at your data and ask questions in real time to uncover insights. 9. Doing nothing is the biggest risk.Unstructured, “bring your own AI” usage creates security risks, knowledge loss, and inconsistency. Intentional adoption is safer than ignoring it. ⸻ 🔥 Notable Moments * A custom AI-generated Stu’s News jingle steals the show* Live discussion of Claude’s new design and Adobe integrations* Real-world examples of automating social media decision-making* A candid look at how organizations are (and aren’t) keeping up* A strong warning: DMOs risk irrelevance if they don’t evolve ⸻ 🎯 Bottom Line This episode isn’t about AI theory—it’s about operational reality. The tools are here, the shift is happening, and the gap between adopters and laggards is widening fast.

    1h 2m

  8. May 14

    81: Are DMOs Still Thinking Like Marketers Instead of Experience Creators? (Matt Vinson)

    In this episode of Destination Discourse, Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker are joined by Matt Vinson from Visit Dallas for a conversation about what destination marketing can learn from fresh perspectives, especially from sports, technology, and outside industries. After a chaotic intro, Adam’s public apology, and Matt’s brave admission that he hates the Stu’s News theme song, the group dives into the rapid evolution of AI tools like Claude Design, Claude Code, ChatGPT, Gemini, and Copilot. They explore what these tools mean for DMOs, why context is becoming one of the most important organizational assets, and how AI may change staffing, workflows, design, websites, and even the future of SaaS. Matt shares his perspective as someone who came into the DMO world from sports, including what surprised him most about the industry: the number of vendors, the politics of public funding, the limited number of dominant technology platforms, and the challenge of proving ROI when DMOs do not control the full customer journey. The conversation also tackles risk aversion in the DMO space, the “cycle of stagnancy,” the need for more experimentation, and why DMOs may need to become builders of tools, not just buyers of software. Finally, Matt shares lessons from sports marketing that destinations should embrace, especially the power of events, experiences, and deeper human storytelling. The group closes with a discussion on destination-owned events, community-driven experiences, and why the future of DMOs depends on creativity, courage, and a willingness to ask “what if?” Topics covered include: Claude Design, Claude Code, and the changing AI landscapeWhy context is critical for using AI wellHow DMOs may need to rethink org charts and AI trainingWhat sports marketing can teach destination marketersThe challenge of attribution and proving ROIWhy vendor selection may need to become more future-focusedThe opportunity for DMOs to build their own toolsWhy events and experiences may become essential travel motivatorsThe importance of human-centered storytellingHow DMOs can move beyond promotion and become true community builders

    59 min
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5
out of 5
13 Ratings

About

Destination Discourse is the essential podcast for DMOs and travel industry professionals who want to stay ahead in destination marketing, stewardship, and management. Hosted by industry experts Stuart Butler and Adam Stoker, each episode delves into the key issues and trends shaping the future of tourism. From cutting-edge innovations to the complex challenges of destination management, we offer thought-provoking insights, honest debates, and practical takeaways. Part love letter to the industry, part therapy session, and part user manual, Destination Discourse is your trusted source for real talk and expert advice. Join us to explore inspiring campaigns, hear from leading voices, and gain the insights you need to elevate your destination strategies.

Information

  • Creator
    Destination Discourse
  • Years Active
    2024 - 2026
  • Episodes
    89
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Show Website
    Destination Discourse

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