Dual Source Discourse

Dr. Elouise Epstein + Sarah Scudder

Procurement doesn’t have to be boring! Join hosts Dr. Elouise Epstein and Sarah Scudder on Dual Source Discourse, the podcast where they unpack the complexities of supply chain and procurement with a twist of humor and intellect. In each episode, Sarah brings a burning topic to the table, armed with opinions and insights, while Dr. Elouise plays devil's advocate, challenging assumptions and shedding light on alternative perspectives. From the boardroom to the warehouse floor, Dual Source Discourse dives into the big-picture issues shaping the world of supply chain management and procurement. Whether it's discussing the impacts of global trade policies, dissecting the latest technology trends, or exploring strategies for sustainable sourcing, they're here to break it down and make it accessible and entertaining. So, grab your headphones and join them as they navigate the wacky world of supply chain.

  1. 4d ago

    What is AI Native? | Dual Source Discourse #89

    AI-NATIVE PROCUREMENT: HOW TO EVALUATE, PRICE, AND BUY THE NEXT GENERATION OF AI In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise unpack what it really means for a product to be AI-native and why the distinction matters for procurement professionals. They compare AI-enabled products with AI-native systems, explain how to spot AI-washing during supplier evaluations, and share five questions buyers should ask vendors before signing a contract. The conversation then moves into the rapidly changing economics of AI, including consumption-based, outcome-based, and hybrid pricing models, as well as the importance of spend caps, flexible seat counts, and clearly defined billable units. They also explore emerging contract considerations around data rights, exit rights, SLAs, AI accuracy, and vendor lock-in. Finally, Sarah and Dr. Elouise discuss how AI is reshaping procurement itself through intake and triage, contract review, supplier discovery, and market coverage—while emphasizing that clean data, build-versus-buy analysis, and thoughtful evaluation remain foundational to successful AI adoption. Key Points: • AI-Native vs. AI-Enabled Technology: How to distinguish products built around AI from traditional software with AI features bolted on—and why the difference affects product longevity, extensibility, pricing, and procurement decisions. • How to Evaluate AI Vendors: Five questions procurement teams should ask, including when AI entered the product, what happens if AI is disabled, whether vendors will demonstrate the product using your data, how they measure error rates, and how much of their engineering roadmap is dedicated to AI. • The Changing Economics of AI: Why traditional per-seat pricing becomes problematic when AI agents perform work previously handled by employees, and how consumption-based, outcome-based, and hybrid pricing models are emerging. • AI Procurement Requires New Contract Thinking: Data rights, exit rights, quality-based SLAs, spend caps, flexible seat counts, defined billable units, vendor lock-in, and data quality are becoming critical considerations when purchasing AI. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Introduction. to the concept of AI-native and explain why the term matters for procurement 02:38 The difference between AI as a bolt-on feature and AI as the foundation of a product 06:44 AI-washing and the challenge of determining whether vendors are genuinely AI-native 08:07 Five questions procurement professionals should ask AI vendors 12:29 AI error rates, hallucinations, evaluation infrastructure, customization, and governance guardrails 23:51 Consumption-based, outcome-based, and hybrid AI pricing 30:03 Data rights, model training, exit rights, and ownership of workflows and IP 33:24 Why traditional uptime SLAs may not be enough for AI 39:30 How AI is already rebuilding procurement through intake and triage Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    What is AI Native? | Dual Source Discourse #89
  2. Aug 5

    Another Cornucopia Episode | Dual Source Discourse #88

    From global procurement conferences to AI-powered software development, Sarah and Dr. Elouise explore how artificial intelligence is reshaping enterprise technology, sourcing strategies, and the future of procurement. Sarah and Dr. Elouise celebrate a new milestone today as Dr. Elouise LLC becomes the official podcast sponsor before diving into a wide-ranging discussion on AI, procurement technology, and lessons learned from recent international travels. Dr. Elouise shares insights from conferences across Ireland, Northern Ireland, Germany, and the UK, highlighting how intimate industry events create better networking opportunities and stronger customer connections. The conversation explores one of the biggest shifts happening in enterprise technology today: organizations choosing to build their own AI-powered source-to-pay platforms instead of purchasing traditional procurement software. Sarah and Dr. Elouise discuss the financial tradeoffs, security considerations, and how AI is dramatically reducing the time and cost required to develop enterprise applications. They also recap an AI Supply Chain Hackathon focused on improving food bank operations, discuss the growing maturity of enterprise AI adoption, and examine how subscription-based AI tools are quietly increasing both personal and business technology expenses. The episode concludes with a preview of next week's discussion on what it truly means to be an "AI-native" company. Key Points: • AI is accelerating custom procurement software development, making self-built source-to-pay platforms a realistic alternative to traditional enterprise suites. • Smaller industry conferences create stronger networking opportunities, deeper conversations, and more memorable customer experiences than large-scale events. • Enterprise AI adoption is rapidly maturing, with organizations moving beyond personal productivity into process transformation and platform innovation. • AI subscriptions are creating hidden technology costs, forcing both individuals and organizations to rethink budgeting and consumption-based pricing. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Dr. Elouise LLC becomes the podcast's official sponsor and discussion of her new AI consulting business 04:40 Travel recap across Dublin, Belfast, London, Hamburg, and Berlin, and why smaller conferences deliver greater value 09:45 Lessons from the Kilbar Conference, conference planning best practices, and memorable attendee experiences 18:40 The importance of authenticity, networking, and personal branding at industry events 24:15 Visiting Derry with Michelle Armstrong, cultural observations, and reflections inspired by Derry Girls 30:45 A major enterprise client chooses to build its own AI-powered source-to-pay platform instead of purchasing traditional procurement software 36:20 Security considerations, implementation costs, and why AI is changing the economics of enterprise software development 42:30 AI maturity is evolving as organizations move beyond individual productivity into enterprise-wide transformation 45:10 Recap of the AI Supply Chain Hackathon focused on food bank operations, volunteer management, and inventory optimization 53:15 Personal and business AI subscriptions, hidden software costs, and the rise of consumption-based pricing Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    Another Cornucopia Episode | Dual Source Discourse #88
  3. Jul 29

    Private Equity in ProcureTech | Dual Source Discourse Podcast #87

    UNPACKING INVESTMENT DYNAMICS IN PROCURETECH A timely look back at one of procurement technology's biggest market shifts. As private equity continues to reshape the ProcureTech landscape and investment strategies evolve alongside AI, we're bringing back one of our most popular conversations on the forces driving the industry behind the scenes. In this episode, Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein break down the differences between venture capital (VC) and private equity (PE), how each investment model influences leadership, product innovation, growth strategies, and why understanding these dynamics matters for procurement professionals, technology vendors, and investors alike. From leadership turnover and market consolidation to procurement orchestration, risk technology, and the future of software platforms, this conversation provides valuable context for understanding where ProcureTech is headed. Whether you're building, buying, or selling procurement technology, this episode remains remarkably relevant. Topics Discussed: • The key differences between venture capital and private equity investment models • Why more ProcureTech companies are moving from VC funding to PE ownership • How investment strategies influence innovation, product roadmaps, and executive leadership • Market consolidation across procurement, risk management, and supply chain technology • What buyers and vendors should understand about selling into PE-backed organizations • Predictions for the future of ProcureTech investment and AI-driven transformation ✨Highlights✨ 00:05 Sarah shares lessons from Australia before diving into today's discussion on ProcureTech investments. 06:06 Venture capital vs. private equity: what they are and why the distinction matters. 12:00 Why private equity is becoming increasingly active across the ProcureTech market. 22:24 Leadership transitions, executive turnover, and strategic shifts following acquisitions. 29:30 How investment models influence innovation, product strategy, and long-term growth. 34:26 Final predictions, audience questions, and what's next for procurement technology. Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    Private Equity in ProcureTech | Dual Source Discourse Podcast #87
  4. Jul 22

    The Logistics of Dog Rescue | Dual Source Discourse #86

    Dog rescue is far more than finding homes for adorable pets, it's a complex operation involving logistics, volunteer coordination, transportation, medical care, fundraising, and careful matchmaking. In this episode, Sarah and Dr. Elouise welcome Heather Fotch, better known throughout procurement as the "Toner Queen" and the Ohio and Michigan representative for the Italian Greyhound Rescue Foundation, to pull back the curtain on what actually happens behind the scenes. Heather explains how rescue organizations operate without shelters, relying instead on nationwide networks of volunteers, foster homes, transport teams, veterinarians, and donors to move dogs from difficult situations into permanent homes. The conversation explores everything from intake assessments and behavioral matching to fundraising, veterinary partnerships, adoption screening, and the emotional realities of working with surrendering owners. Throughout the discussion, Sarah and Dr. Elouise draw parallels between procurement, supply chain management, and rescue operations, demonstrating that successful dog rescue depends on thoughtful planning, data, relationships, and operational excellence just as much as compassion. Inspired by Heather's incredible work? The Italian Greyhound Rescue Foundation is a 100% volunteer-run nonprofit that relies on donations to provide veterinary care, transportation, foster support, and rescue services for Italian Greyhounds across the United States. ❤️ Make a donation: Support the Italian Greyhound Rescue Foundation Key Points: • Dog Rescue Is a Supply Chain Operation: Successful rescues rely on intake processes, transportation networks, foster capacity, veterinary partnerships, funding, and volunteer coordination—not simply finding dogs new homes. • Matching Matters More Than Speed: Rescue organizations prioritize matching each dog's personality, medical needs, and behaviors with the right foster and adoptive families to create successful lifelong placements. • Volunteers Are the Backbone of Rescue: Foster families, transport volunteers, adoption coordinators, veterinarians, grant writers, and donors all play critical roles in keeping rescue organizations operational. • Adoption Fees Don't Cover the Real Cost: Veterinary care, emergency surgeries, medications, transportation, and ongoing medical treatment far exceed adoption fees, making fundraising and donations essential to every rescue's success. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Introduction to our special guest and exploring the behind-the-scenes logistics of Italian Greyhound rescue 06:15 Heather introduces the Italian Greyhound Rescue Foundation (IGRF) and explains how the national volunteer-based rescue organization operates 13:29 How Heather manages rescue operations using simple tools to coordinate volunteers, fosters, and adoptions 20:03 How dogs are matched with foster homes rather than simply finding the first available placement 25:04 How the rescue fully funds veterinary care through fundraising, grants, and donations 35:14 Building long-term veterinary partnerships and negotiating rescue discounts while maintaining strong payment practices 43:49 Why financial donations are often more valuable than physical items 50:20 Transport logistics, including volunteer drivers and the incredible network that helps move dogs safely 51:01 How six volunteer pilots flew one rescued dog over 15 hours to its new home 57:17 Heather offers advice for adopters, foster families, volunteers, common misconceptions about rescue work, and where listeners can support the Italian Greyhound Rescue Foundation Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    The Logistics of Dog Rescue | Dual Source Discourse #86
  5. Jul 15

    Dr. Elouise's New Journey | Dual Source Discourse #85

    In this episode, Sarah interviews Dr. Elouise about one of the biggest career decisions of her life—stepping away from a 26-year partnership at Kearney to launch her own AI training and coaching business. She shares the experiences that shaped her decision, from witnessing the rise of the internet in the late 1990s to recognizing today's AI revolution as a similarly transformative moment. Together, they discuss why executives over 40 need AI coaching, how traditional corporate training has failed learners, and why coaching, accountability, and hands-on learning will be essential for successful AI adoption. The conversation also explores entrepreneurship, personal branding, consulting, and the importance of taking calculated risks while building a business around the future of work. Key Points: • Leaving a 26-Year Career at Kearney: Dr. Elouise explains why now was the right time to leave her partnership and launch an AI training and coaching company focused on helping professionals over 40 navigate AI. • Why AI Training Needs to Change: Traditional learning management systems often fail because people learn best through human interaction, coaching, accountability, and hands-on practice—not passive online courses. • Helping Executives Become AI Leaders: Rather than teaching technical AI concepts, Dr. Elouise plans to coach executives to confidently adopt AI, build AI habits, and lead organizational change. • Building a Business Around the AI Revolution: The discussion explores entrepreneurship, personal branding, AI-powered business operations, and why this moment feels as significant as the early days of the internet. Highlights: ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Dr. Elouise announces she's launching her own AI training and coaching company 05:20 Why today's AI revolution reminds her of witnessing the birth of the internet 12:10 The vision behind helping executives over 40 embrace AI with confidence and practical coaching 18:30 Traditional corporate training and learning management systems fail to create lasting learning 31:40 Using AI agents to run an AI-first business instead of relying on traditional administrative support 38:15 Entrepreneurship, personal branding, and why building your reputation matters 50:00 Advice for professionals considering a major career change and why today's AI opportunity shouldn't be ignored 55:30 Looking ahead: expanding beyond procurement, continuing the podcast, and documenting the entrepreneurial journey Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    Dr.  Elouise's New Journey | Dual Source Discourse #85
  6. Jul 8

    CLM is Dead! How AI Is Replacing Contract Management | Re-Release | Dual Source Discourse #84

    Originally released when AI was just beginning to reshape procurement technology, this conversation feels even more relevant today. Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein revisit one of the podcast's boldest predictions: "CLM is dead." They examine why traditional Contract Lifecycle Management (CLM) software has struggled to deliver on its promise, how AI is transforming contract management, and why orchestration platforms are becoming the future of procurement technology. The discussion explores the evolution of CLM from simple document repositories to complex enterprise software, why many implementations failed to create lasting value, and how generative AI is changing everything, from contract drafting and redlining to compliance monitoring and risk management. Sarah and Elouise also discuss what these changes mean for procurement teams, legal departments, consulting firms, and software vendors as AI platforms replace standalone point solutions. They highlight emerging procurement innovators and explore why industry-specific AI solutions may become the next major wave of procurement technology. Whether you're evaluating CLM software, building an AI procurement strategy, or simply trying to understand where procurement technology is headed, this episode offers a thought-provoking perspective that continues to resonate. Key Points: • Why traditional CLM is losing relevance: AI can now perform many of the core functions that once justified standalone CLM platforms. • The rise of procurement AI platforms: Modern orchestration solutions are embedding contract management directly into broader procurement workflows. • AI is transforming legal and consulting: Routine contract work, legal review, and analytical consulting tasks are increasingly being automated. • Vertical AI solutions are emerging: Industry-specific procurement platforms are creating new opportunities beyond one-size-fits-all enterprise software. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Revisiting the spider map and CLM’s “death” declaration 03:10 Jason Busch’s post sparks renewed debate on CLM’s relevance 06:30 Historical evolution: from contract repositories to metadata tagging and authoring 11:00 Why companies maintain separate CLMs across sales, legal, and procurement 14:50 AI orchestration platforms will absorb or replace CLM players 18:40 Legal profession’s slow tech adoption but high exposure to AI disruption 21:15 Consulting’s shifting pyramid: AI reshapes analyst and junior consultant roles 25:00 Emergence of vertical (industry-specific) procurement solutions 27:15 Shoutouts: Flip Through, Valdera, Pinpools, FineTune, Green Cabbage Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    CLM is Dead! How AI Is Replacing Contract Management | Re-Release | Dual Source Discourse #84
  7. Jul 1

    Inside PepsiCo’s Strategy & Transformation w/ Lauren Hymen | Re-Release | Dual Source Discourse #83

    One of our most popular conversations is worth another listen. Recorded live from DPW New York inside the conference's iconic subway-car podcast studio, Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein sit down with Lauren Hymen, Head of Digital Procurement at PepsiCo, to discuss what digital transformation actually looks like inside one of the world's largest consumer products companies. Lauren shares how PepsiCo is balancing investment in AI while continuing to modernize legacy systems, why procurement is becoming a strategic investment area for executive leadership, and how reorganizing Strategy, Shared Services, and IT has accelerated business alignment. The conversation also explores contract analytics, practitioner communities, AI adoption, and why learning from peers often creates more value than vendor presentations. Whether you're leading procurement transformation, evaluating AI initiatives, or navigating enterprise change management, this episode offers practical lessons that remain just as relevant today. Key Points: • Balancing AI with Modernization: PepsiCo continues strengthening core technology while selectively piloting AI to build confidence, improve data quality, and generate measurable business value. • Procurement as a Strategic Business Function: Executive leadership increasingly views procurement as a source of competitive advantage, driving investment in should-cost modeling, analytics, and digital capabilities. • Organizational Alignment Accelerates Innovation: Bringing Strategy, Shared Services, and IT together under a unified transformation organization creates stronger collaboration and faster decision-making. • Peer Networks Drive Better Outcomes: Practitioner communities, technology roundtables, and real customer experiences provide more actionable insights than traditional vendor sales presentations. ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 DPW NYC intro and the subway-car podcast setup 03:02 Lauren’s seat outside the procurement org within Strategy & Transformation 06:14 The “big ugly question”: balancing AI ambitions with legacy constraints 07:51 Procurement as a value driver 09:02 Strategy + Shared Services + IT under one leader 10:36 “Quick-and-dirty” AI alongside enterprise CLM; pilots in motion 15:13 Daily AI habit and surrounding yourself with people smarter than you 16:00 Why DPW feels “sexy” 17:37 Ongoing tech sharing with Walmart’s digital procurement lead 23:31 Harnessing PepsiCo’s internal energy to advance digital procurement Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    Inside PepsiCo’s Strategy & Transformation w/ Lauren Hymen | Re-Release | Dual Source Discourse #83
  8. Jun 24

    Corporate Team Building Events Gone Bad | Dual Source Discourse #82

    No Boats, No Booze, No Bumper Cars! In this episode, the hosts dive into the chaotic world of corporate team-building events that miss the mark, sometimes spectacularly. From sailboat races that end in collisions to white-water rafting near-disasters and canoe trips gone wrong, Dr. Elouise shares a series of personal (and painfully vivid) stories illustrating how well-intentioned offsite activities can quickly turn stressful, unsafe, or outright humiliating. The conversation expands beyond water-based mishaps to include alcohol-fueled events, overly competitive games like WhirlyBall, and ethically questionable experiences such as simulated war tank driving and hunting trips. Despite the disasters, the episode closes with a grounded reflection: the best team-building doesn’t rely on forced intensity, but on shared, low-pressure experiences that allow real connection to emerge naturally. Key Points: • Water-based team-building is consistently high-risk and low-reward: sailing, rafting, canoeing, and boat tours often create stress instead of cohesion • Over-structured or competitive environments can undermine teamwork: activities like WhirlyBall or racing-style exercises often trigger frustration rather than collaboration • Alcohol-centered events can create safety and behavioral risks: drinking-focused activities blur boundaries and can lead to poor outcomes • Better team bonding comes from flexible, low-pressure shared experiences: museums, hikes, cultural outings, and optional activities foster more authentic connection ✨Highlights✨ 00:00 Introduction to today’s topic: “Team-building events gone wrong” and skepticism toward corporate offsites 02:33 Boat-based team-building events and “being a captive audience” on the water 03:35 Disaster sailboat leadership retreat near Chesapeake Bay 08:52 White-water rafting in Montana ruled out due to anxiety 12:03 Russian River canoe trip mishap, eek! 20:04 “Night golf” experiment at a resort-style described as confusing 23:12 Cocktail-making session escalates into unsafe overconsumption 25:11 WhirlyBall collision incident where a teammate crashes into a boss 34:48 Flexible team day on Angel Island with hiking, biking, and Segways 36:53 Favorite example: event at the USS Hornet Sea, Air & Space Museum combining history, museum access, and team bonding Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and, as always, submit questions and topics suggestions for future podcasts ⁠⁠here: https://shorturl.at/PbNi6 Follow us on YouTube for episode video recordings: https://rb.gy/t5hbw8 Hosts: Sarah Scudder and Dr. Elouise Epstein Producer: Sabrina Mougin

    Corporate Team Building Events Gone Bad | Dual Source Discourse #82

Ratings & Reviews

5
out of 5
3 Ratings

About

Procurement doesn’t have to be boring! Join hosts Dr. Elouise Epstein and Sarah Scudder on Dual Source Discourse, the podcast where they unpack the complexities of supply chain and procurement with a twist of humor and intellect. In each episode, Sarah brings a burning topic to the table, armed with opinions and insights, while Dr. Elouise plays devil's advocate, challenging assumptions and shedding light on alternative perspectives. From the boardroom to the warehouse floor, Dual Source Discourse dives into the big-picture issues shaping the world of supply chain management and procurement. Whether it's discussing the impacts of global trade policies, dissecting the latest technology trends, or exploring strategies for sustainable sourcing, they're here to break it down and make it accessible and entertaining. So, grab your headphones and join them as they navigate the wacky world of supply chain.

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