Been There Got Out Podcast

Chris & Lisa

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

  1. 21h ago

    Why Does My Toxic Ex Get Worse After the Divorce Is Final?

    Most people believe that once the divorce is final, the chaos finally ends. With a high-conflict, narcissistic, or unpredictable co-parent, the opposite is often true. As they lose day-to-day control, they learn to control you from afar—through the kids, the money, and the legal system. In this honest, practical conversation, UK coach and psychotherapist Louize Yafai joins Lisa Johnson to explain why the abuse can ramp up after separation, and exactly what to do about it. Louize knows this from the inside. After a 16-year marriage, she survived severe financial and post-separation abuse, came close to homelessness twice, and relied on food banks while raising three daughters and litigating on her own. Then she turned her pain into power, trained as a counsellor and psychotherapist, and now helps parents navigate the same storm with their dignity intact. Together they unpack the “Friday Night Bomb”—the email or filing timed to ruin your weekend—and why peace doesn’t come from your ex changing. It comes from learning to trust yourself to handle whatever arrives. You’ll learn how to stop reacting, when not to respond at all, how to protect your legal fees and your nervous system, and why an impartial guide matters when friends and family keep telling you to “just move on.” ✅ WHAT YOU’LL LEARN ✅ Why a high-conflict ex often gets worse, not better, after the divorce is final ✅ What the “Friday Night Bomb” is—and how to stop it from ruining your time with the kids ✅ How to build a “Teflon suit” and respond from a calm, grounded place ✅ The in-the-moment “buffer” to use the second a hostile message lands ✅ Why you should not respond to every lie—and what judges actually care about ✅ How reactivity quietly drives up your legal fees ✅ Why being “coached” by AI can backfire badly in a high-conflict case ✅ How to know it’s time for support—without waiting until burnout ABOUT LOUIZE YAFAI Louize Yafai is a divorce, separation, and co-parenting coach with a degree in counselling and psychotherapy. Drawing on her own experience of financial and post-separation abuse—and years of helping men and women face unpredictable, narcissistic co-parents—she specializes in emotional regulation, boundaries, and the practical strategies that help people move through high-conflict divorce with strength and self-respect. She is a contributing author to the #1 best seller “Emotional Alchemy” and to a recent anthology curated with Olympic medalist Fatima Whitbread MBE on overcoming adversity.

  2. 4d ago

    Why 50/50 Custody Can Backfire Badly in a High-Conflict Divorce

    Everyone walks into family court assuming the “fair” answer is to split the kids right down the middle. Fifty-fifty. Equal time, equal say, problem solved. But what if that instinct toward fairness is quietly setting your children up for years of stress — and setting you up to lose the very argument you should be winning? In this conversation, Lisa sits down with veteran matrimonial attorney Gus Dimopoulos, who has spent 25 years handling complex, high-conflict divorce and custody cases in Westchester County and New York City. After his article “The Equality Trap” struck a nerve, we asked him to walk us through what he’s really seeing in courtrooms — and why the growing assumption that 50/50 is automatically best can be, in his words, disastrous in practice. Gus explains something most parents never learn until it’s too late: in New York, there is no legal presumption of shared custody. The law requires a best-interest analysis, and the question of a shared-custody presumption has come before the state legislature for 25 years without ever reaching a vote. Yet judges juggling hundreds of cases are under enormous pressure to settle custody early, and “just split it” starts to feel like the path of least resistance. Understanding that gap — between what the law actually says and what tends to happen in a crowded courtroom — changes how you prepare. We get into the practical reality nobody talks about: fifty-fifty demands a level of coordination, communication, and mutual respect that high-conflict co-parents simply don’t have. When you add modern kids’ schedules — sports, tutoring, therapy, club teams — an equal-time arrangement can turn every week into a battlefield. Gus also walks through parallel parenting and “spheres of influence” as a more realistic alternative for parents who can’t cooperate: you take this domain, I take that one, and we keep out of each other’s way so the kids aren’t caught in the crossfire. He shares his most important courtroom lesson, too: judges reward the parent who shows up as a calm, prepared problem-solver with a pragmatic list of facts, not the parent who comes in with drama and accusations. If something doesn’t work for your kids, you have to be able to show why — with logistics, work policies, train schedules, and evidence — rather than simply insisting the other parent is awful. We also talk about why putting real specifics into your parenting plan beats vague promises to “be cordial,” and why a child should never have to decide which parent to run to after scoring the game-winning goal. This one is essential listening whether you’re negotiating a parenting plan, heading into a custody hearing, or trying to understand why the “fair” outcome keeps making your life harder. As always, this isn’t legal advice for your specific case — it’s strategic education to help you walk in better prepared. 👉 Ready for a strategy that fits your situation? Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we’ll help you identify your priorities: https://beentheregotout.com ABOUT BEEN THERE GOT OUT: Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists. They help good parents navigate the gap between what attorneys aren’t trained to do and what therapists don’t address — with practical, trauma-informed, actionable guidance for protecting yourself and your kids. #5050Custody #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #CoParenting #ParallelParenting #DivorceAdvice #ChildCustody

  3. Jul 27

    A DV Nonprofit CEO on What Family Court Gets Wrong About Abuse Survivors

    If you have already left an abusive relationship and you're now staring down the family court system, this conversation was made for you. Lisa Johnson of Been There Got Out sits down with Liz Ortenberger, CEO of SafeNest, the largest domestic and sexual violence nonprofit in Las Vegas, Nevada, for a frank discussion about what actually works once you're in front of a judge. Here's the hard truth Liz names out loud: the court will never understand your abuser the way you do. Judges are busy, they're drawn to whoever tells the cleanest, most linear story, and many of them quietly assume that a mother fighting for custody may be exaggerating the abuse to gain an advantage. That isn't fair - but it is the room you're walking into, and pretending otherwise helps no one. So what do you do with that? Liz lays out a survivor's playbook that lines up almost perfectly with what we coach every day. Get it into the record that your children witnessed the abuse, because a child witnessing abuse has the same chemical brain reaction as a child being abused directly. Build your own clear, linear timeline before you ever walk into the courtroom. Think like a chess player rather than a boxer - anticipate your ex's next several moves and head them off, instead of just reacting. And document, document, document: photograph injuries, keep a private journal, tell a trusted friend, and email evidence to yourself so it carries a date stamp the other side can't explain away. She also shares a statistic that every survivor deserves to know: if you were strangled or choked during the relationship, your risk of a later lethal outcome rises dramatically - and that is something you can get documented medically and entered into the court record. Throughout, Liz zooms out to the bigger picture too: the history of the movement, why our systems haven't moved the numbers in 30 years, and what it would take to actually protect the next generation. Practical, honest, and genuinely useful whether you're just starting your case or years deep into it. A SURVIVOR'S COURT PLAYBOOK - How to get a child's exposure to abuse onto the official record - and why it counts - Building the clean, linear timeline judges actually respond to - Anticipating your ex's legal moves like a chess player instead of reacting like a boxer - The custody bias many survivors run into - and how to get ahead of it - A simple, free way to date-stamp your evidence so it can't be dismissed as fabricated - The strangulation statistic that belongs in your medical records and your court file RESOURCES MENTIONED: SafeNest (Las Vegas): https://www.safenest.org Reach Liz's team: info@safenest.org Look up your ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) score - and take it for your child, too If you are in immediate danger, contact your local emergency services. In the U.S., the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE). This conversation is for education and support; it is not legal or mental-health advice. When you're ready, we're here to help you build a strategy that fits your situation. #DomesticViolence #FamilyCourt #CustodyBattle #CoParenting #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #DVAwareness #SurvivorSupport

  4. Jul 23

    Nilaja Ford: The Voice of the Child in New Jersey Custody

    New Jersey judges are now hearing from children directly in custody matters, and parents whose exes have spent years working on those children are alarmed. Nilaja Ford's counter is that the children were already in the middle of it. The revision changes who gets to hear them. Nilaja Ford co-founded Ford Brown Law with her partner Donnett Brown. Both were prosecutors for the state of New Jersey, and both specialize in domestic violence alongside family law. Nilaja handled domestic violence contempt matters on the prosecution side before moving into an exclusively matrimonial, custody, and domestic violence practice, and she has been conducting child interviews since before the statute was revised to formalize them. She and her partner also run a free legal-services clinic at a women's resource center in Newark. Everything she describes here is New Jersey practice, though she notes much of it tracks other states moving the same way. The conversation opens on hearsay, because it is where parents lose ground without understanding why. A letter from a therapist, a teacher, or a supportive friend generally cannot stand on its own at a hearing; the person who wrote it has to be available to be questioned. Nilaja walks through the exceptions she leans on, particularly business records like school attendance, and why expert reports come with the expectation that the expert can be asked how they reached their conclusions. She then explains what the revision, nicknamed children in charge, actually does. New Jersey's best-interest standard and its 14 factors are unchanged. What is clarified is the mechanism: a recorded interview with the judge, under a protective order rather than something a parent can post, with questions submitted by both sides. Age affects how much weight a child's preference carries, not whether they are heard. And the question she puts on her own list is not who do you want to live with, it is what the ideal arrangement would look like, in specifics, because the specifics are what reveal what is really going on. Nilaja and Lisa then work through the situations BTGO's clients live in. A parent asking for sole custody, and her first question, which is always why. Reporting abuse, and why the investigating body has to be the state agency rather than you. Cayden's Law, and what these changes are trying to prevent. A teenager who has already aligned with one parent, and Nilaja's uncomfortable point that acts and omissions count, that timing counts, and that a case arriving late arrives with a history already built. She also covers legal decision-making, stonewalling, and the 24-hour clause she has had written into orders so one parent cannot run out the clock on the other. As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation. 🎓 What you'll learn What hearsay is, and why the letter from your child's therapist may not come inWhich records do come in, and why school attendance is used so oftenWhat New Jersey's children-in-charge revision actually changed, and what it did notHow a child interview is conducted, who submits the questions, and who can hear itHow age affects the weight of a child's preference rather than their eligibilityWhy "I want sole custody" gets answered with a question, and what she is listening forWhy the state agency, not you, has to be the one investigating an abuse allegationActs, omissions, and timing: why a case brought late arrives with a history attached⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 Nilaja's background: prosecutor, then family and domestic violence law 3:00 Hearsay, and why the therapist's letter will not come in 7:00 What the children-in-charge revision actually changed 9:00 How a child interview works, and who writes the questions 11:00 Age, weight, and New Jersey's fourteen best-interest factors 17:00 "I want sole custody." Her first question is why 19:00 Reporting abuse: the agency that investigates, and why it cannot be you 25:00 Teenagers who have already been turned against a parent 31:00 Getting to the whys behind what a child says 39:00 Legal decisions, stonewalling, and 24-hour clauses Keep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Nilaja Ford at Ford Brown Law: https://www.fordbrownlaw.com/ About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

    Nilaja Ford: The Voice of the Child in New Jersey Custody
  5. Jul 20

    She Coined the Term “Co-Parenting” - Anne P. Mitchell on Surviving False Allegations

    Some of the language we all use in family court every day didn’t always exist. The word “co-parenting” is one of them — and the attorney credited with introducing it sits down with us in this conversation. Anne P. Mitchell was one of the first two attorneys in the United States to fight for a child’s right to an ongoing relationship with their father after separation, and what she learned across decades in the trenches of high-conflict custody is exactly what targeted parents need to hear today. In this first part of our conversation, Anne walks us through the warning signs that a false allegation of abuse is on its way, the simple steps that protect you before one ever lands, and the co-parent counseling model she helped pioneer — including the surprisingly effective way to get a judge to order it. 🎯 What You’ll Learn: ✅ Where the term “co-parenting” actually came from — and why the framing matters for your case ✅ The real driver behind most high-conflict acrimony, and how to recognize it escalating ✅ The early warning signs that a false allegation of abuse may be coming ✅ Concrete steps to protect yourself before an allegation is ever made ✅ What co-parent counseling is, what it isn’t, and why it works when little else does ✅ The “cut the cake” method for getting a resistant ex to agree to counseling ✅ How to get a judge to order co-parent counseling — and why they so rarely refuse ✅ Why proving a false allegation can flip custody in some states ✅ The danger of the “silver bullet” restraining-order strategy being pitched online ✅ When it may be time to find a different lawyer — and how to advocate without alienating the one you have 👩‍⚖️ About Anne P. Mitchell: Anne P. Mitchell is an attorney, law professor, and law dean emeritus, as well as a legal journalist. She was one of the first two attorneys in the United States to advocate for a child’s right to an ongoing relationship with their father after separation — work she began even before law school, when she founded an advocacy group and testified before the New York legislature. She is credited with introducing the term “co-parenting,” co-developed an early model of co-parent counseling, and is the author of “They’re Your Kids Too,” a guide for parents navigating a broken family law system. Still licensed in California, she continues to write and advocate for children and parents.

    She Coined the Term “Co-Parenting” - Anne P. Mitchell on Surviving False Allegations
  6. Jul 16

    Ashish Joshi: Parental Alienation Cases That Hold Up in Court

    Two labels get used for very different situations in family court, and mixing them up changes who the judge thinks is to blame. A "high conflict" case is two parents who can't agree on a pediatrician or a summer camp. A family violence case is one parent behaving abusively while the other parent, or the child, reacts to it. Attorney Ashish Joshi says that second parent should never carry blame for the reaction. Ashish Joshi practices family law and focuses nationally on domestic violence and parental alienation cases. His first book, Litigating Parental Alienation, is one Lisa has recommended for years. His new one, Litigating Family Violence, covers the wider category: coercive control, emotional and financial abuse, immigration used as leverage, international abduction, and the child psychological maltreatment that alienation falls under. He also teaches on these issues at legal and judicial conferences, including for judges in areas with few family law resources. In this conversation, Ashish and Lisa work through the difference between parental alienation, parent-child contact problems, and alienating behaviors, and why courts sometimes need all three distinctions to get an order right. They talk about what makes a reunification order enforceable: a named therapist, a deadline, and consequences for the parent who is supposed to bring the child to sessions. They cover why letting a rejected teenager decide how often to attend therapy undermines the process, when a judge can find alienation from a parent's own text messages without an expert witness, and what changes once custody has already been reversed but the child is still in constant phone contact with the parent who alienated them. Ashish also talks about the research on men experiencing coercive control and intimate partner violence, and about vicarious trauma, both for professionals who handle these cases and for the parents living through them. As always, this is strategic education, not legal or mental-health advice for your specific situation. 🎓 What you'll learn Why "high conflict" is the wrong label when one parent is abusive and the other is reacting to itThe difference between parental alienation, parent-child contact problems, and alienating behaviorsWhy no child is ever "too old" for court intervention, as long as they're under the court's jurisdictionHow to write a reunification order that can't be stalled: a named therapist, a deadline, and real consequencesWhy letting a child set their own therapy schedule undermines the whole processWhen a judge can find alienation without an expert witness, and when you actually need oneWhy safeguards, not just more parenting time, matter once custody has already changedThe difference between a child's voice and a child's choice, and why courts should never confuse the two⏱️ Chapters 0:00 Intro 1:00 What "family violence" means, and why Ashish wrote a broader book 7:00 Why "high conflict" is the wrong label for these cases 11:00 Parental alienation vs. parent-child contact problems vs. alienating behaviors 15:00 When to bring resist-refuse dynamics to court 17:00 Severe cases: custody reversal, and why no child is "too old" 19:00 Writing a reunification order that can't be stalled 25:00 Why letting a rejected teenager set the therapy schedule backfires 31:00 When you need an expert witness, and when a judge doesn't 35:00 After the custody flip: the phone, enmeshment, and safeguarding reunification 39:00 The new book, self-care for the fight, and where to find Ashish Keep going 💜 Book a free 30-minute discovery call and we'll help you map your next steps: https://beentheregotout.com/call 📘 Been There Got Out: Toxic Relationships, High-Conflict Divorce, and How to Stay Sane Under Insane Circumstances — https://www.amazon.com/dp/194627495X 📘 Been There Got Out: When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (our parental-alienation book) — https://www.amazon.com/dp/1967674183 🔗 Ashish Joshi at Joshi: Attorneys + Counselors: https://www.joshiattorneys.com/ 🔗 Ashish Joshi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashishsjoshi/ 🔗 Ashish Joshi's latest book at the American Bar Association: https://www.americanbar.org/products/inv/book/456601936/ About Been There Got Out Chris Barry and Lisa Johnson are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists, and the founders of Been There Got Out. They know these cases from the inside: both have successfully represented themselves in family court. Few attorneys have a playbook for a case like this — Chris and Lisa write yours with you, so you and your kids can get through it as unscathed as possible.

    Ashish Joshi: Parental Alienation Cases That Hold Up in Court
  7. Jul 14

    Religious Abuse & Parental Alienation: How Faith Gets Weaponized in a High-Conflict Divorce

    What happens when your ex doesn’t just badmouth you to the kids, but tells them God is on their side? In this episode, Lisa talks with interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist Sherri Heller about one of the most under-recognized weapons in a high-conflict divorce: faith itself. When a marriage involving a high-control religious system breaks down, the parent who leaves is rarely treated as someone making a healthy choice. They’re cast as the one who “deviated,” the one who is “morally depraved,” the one the children must be protected from. Sherri explains exactly how this plays out as parental alienation and why family courts so often miss it, pushing for reconciliation “at any cost” while the smear campaign hides in plain sight behind a veneer of virtue. If you’ve heard your own child repeat phrases that don’t sound like them, like one parent in this episode, whose child said she should be talking to “good Christians, not bad divorced people,” you’ve seen what Sherri calls borrowed scenarios and abuse by proxy: the child used as a vessel to carry the alienating parent’s message. She and Lisa talk through what to actually do in that moment, why opposing the indoctrination head-on backfires, and how to find the “middle ground” and the “way in” instead. You’ll also hear Sherri’s candid take on a hard truth we teach our own clients: in a system that won’t recognize this abuse, you have to learn to play the game. Stay tactical. Gray rock. Build leverage so you’re not completely cut off from your child, and plant seeds quietly (through nature, literature, science, and critical thinking) that give your kids room to find their own autonomy as they grow, especially in adolescence when the contradictions start to surface. Sherri and Lisa also talk about where to put your energy instead of into endless arguments. At Been There Got Out we teach our clients to look for the “universal agreements,” the handful of things both parents claim to want, like a child who is healthy, happy, and well cared for. Anchoring your communication there keeps you on the high ground, gives a watching judge a clear contrast between your behavior and your ex’s, and quietly removes the conflict your ex is fishing for. Sherri’s clinical framing of why opposition feeds the narcissist lines up exactly with the strategic communication we coach every day. There’s also real hope in this episode. Sherri reminds protective parents that the very contradictions an alienating parent creates tend to surface on their own, especially in adolescence, when the pressure of living inside someone else’s story starts to produce its own symptoms. The seeds you plant now, quietly and consistently, are often what your child reaches for later when they begin to question. Your steadiness is the long game. This is essential viewing if you’re navigating custody where religion, a controlling community, or a “messianic” ex is part of the picture. It pairs directly with our book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You” and our work on strategic communication. About our guest: Sherri Heller is an interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and complex trauma recovery, and a survivor herself. ⏱ CHAPTERS / TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Welcome — a topic we rarely cover 00:52 What is spiritual & religious abuse? 02:12 Meet Sherri Heller: minister & trauma-informed therapist 03:40 Common misconceptions (it’s not just isolated sects) 06:02 How love bombing opens the door 08:17 When the community sanctions the abuse 09:44 A survivor robbed of her future 11:23 Rigid rules: controlled marriages & forced isolation 13:31 Narrowing it to the family system 14:17 Red flags: cognitive dissonance & the absence of humility 17:47 Covert vs. overt: ontological gaslighting 18:48 Triangulating with the divine & prosocial camouflage 20:34 Grooming children into martyrs 24:49 Divorce, leaving the faith & parental alienation 25:51 Learning to “play the game” in family court 28:49 Borrowed scenarios & abuse by proxy 29:36 Finding the middle ground with an alienated child 31:34 When (and how) to tell kids a parent is mentally ill 33:32 Getting out: reclaiming yourself 35:27 Gray rocking, planting seeds & the adolescent awakening 37:21 Where to find Sherri Heller 37:53 Closing thoughts WHO WE ARE: Been There Got Out helps protective parents survive high-conflict divorce, custody battles, and parental alienation. Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry teach the strategy that attorneys often don’t — how to communicate, document, and present your case while protecting your relationship with your kids. We’ve been there. We got out. We’ll help you do the same. → Struggling with alienation right now? Book a free 30-minute discovery call: https://btgo.as.me/?appointmentType=24686877 → Get the book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You”: https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Got-Out-Against/dp/1967674183/ Find Sherri Heller: https://sheritherapist.com/index.html #ParentalAlienation #ReligiousAbuse #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #ProtectiveParent #CoParenting #BeenThereGotOut

    Religious Abuse & Parental Alienation: How Faith Gets Weaponized in a High-Conflict Divorce
  8. Jun 25

    The Science of Self-Medication: Trauma, PTSD & Substance Use After Abuse

    If you've been living in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle, you probably know that feeling all too well — the exhaustion that never quite leaves, the hypervigilance, the sense that your nervous system has forgotten how to relax. And for many people in these situations, a glass of wine at the end of the day has quietly become two, or three, or something stronger. Not because of weakness. Because of science. In this episode, Lisa sits down with Dr. Christal Badour, a licensed clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Kentucky, where she runs a research lab focused on trauma recovery and the intersection of PTSD and substance use disorders. Dr. Badour's work is dedicated to understanding why trauma and substance use co-occur so frequently — and more importantly, how to help people break that cycle. What you'll learn in this conversation will likely change the way you see yourself. 📌 WHAT WE COVER IN THIS EPISODE Dr. Badour opens by challenging one of the most persistent misconceptions in our space — the idea that trauma means a single catastrophic event. For people experiencing legal abuse, coercive control, and ongoing post-separation conflict, the damage often looks different: a chronic, lower-level activation of the stress response that erodes you over time. It's not a capital-T Trauma, but it creates many of the same consequences. From there, Lisa and Dr. Badour explore the self-medication hypothesis — the well-researched mechanism by which people dealing with painful experiences reach for substances to quiet their nervous systems. If you've ever needed something to take the edge off just to get through the day, this conversation is for you. Dr. Badour explains this not as a character flaw, but as a neurological response to overwhelming stress. The conversation takes a hopeful turn when Dr. Badour explains that you don't have to wait until the legal process is over to begin healing. Emerging research — much of it developed in military settings — shows that trauma treatment can actually begin even while the threat is still present. This is enormously important for BTGO listeners who are still in the middle of custody battles, still receiving hostile texts, still dreading the next court date. You'll also hear a moving story about one of Dr. Badour's clients — a woman who hadn't worn shorts in years because of the shame she carried from a sexual assault. The moment she walked into a therapy session in shorts? A powerful reminder of what real recovery looks like. 🕐 TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Introduction — The Connection Between Trauma and Substance Use 01:45 Meet Dr. Christal Badour — Psychologist, Researcher, University of Kentucky 03:20 What Mental Health Professionals Mean by "Trauma" vs. What We Mean Everyday 06:10 Chronic Stress vs. Single-Incident Trauma — Why Ongoing Abuse Creates the Same Damage 09:30 Legal Abuse and the Nervous System — When the Threat Never Ends 12:00 Can You Start Healing Before You're Safe? What the Research Now Shows 15:40 The Self-Medication Hypothesis — Why Substances "Work" in the Short Term 20:15 Why Avoidance Feels Like Relief but Blocks Long-Term Recovery 23:30 How Substance Use Interferes With the Brain's Natural Processing of Trauma 27:00 Evidence-Based Treatment Approaches: Skills-Based vs. Trauma-Focused Therapy 31:50 EMDR, Written Exposure, and Approaches That Don't Require Talking About It 35:20 Animal-Assisted Therapy, Equine Therapy, and Complementary Approaches 38:40 Why Joy and Connection Are Also Part of Healing (Not Just Symptom Reduction) 41:10 AA, NA, Harm Reduction, and Choosing the Right Door for Where You Are 44:30 How to Support a Loved One Who Is Struggling 48:00 Success Stories — When the Shame Finally Lifts 51:00 Where to Find Dr. Badour | scienceforsurvivors.com

    The Science of Self-Medication: Trauma, PTSD & Substance Use After Abuse
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About

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

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