Been There Got Out Podcast

Chris & Lisa
  • 4.3 (29)
  • Self-Improvement
  • Updated Semiweekly

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

  1. 2d ago

    Co-Parenting an Autistic Child With a High-Conflict Ex

    Co-parenting a child with autism is hard enough when both parents are on the same page. When your ex is high-conflict, every choice (the diagnosis, therapy, school services, even which chicken nuggets are in the freezer) can turn into a fight. And your child feels all of it. Melissa Berger, a coach for parents of autistic kids and the mom of a daughter diagnosed at 16, joins us to discuss how to keep your child at the center when you and your ex can't agree on much. Melissa shares simple steps you can use this week for decisions, IEP and 504 meetings, moves between two homes, and keeping your child out of the conflict. If you're drafting a parenting plan, heading into a school meeting, or trying to understand why your child falls apart after every exchange, this talk will give you clarity and a plan. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ What to do first when parents disagree about a diagnosis ✅ Why one main decision maker keeps care focused on your child ✅ A parenting plan idea that cuts fights: defer to a named specialist ✅ How to handle IEP and 504 meetings when you and your ex are in conflict ✅ Why a calm weekly behavior summary beats blame ✅ What a social story is, and how it makes each switch between homes feel safer ✅ Why the same foods, bedding, and bedtimes at both homes matter so much ✅ How masking can look like "fine" until your child melts down at home ✅ Red flags that it may be time for a guardian ad litem or custody evaluator ✅ Melissa's four ways to protect autistic kids in high-conflict families ABOUT MELISSA BERGER Melissa Berger is a certified professional coach (CPCC, Co-Active Training Institute) who helps parents of autistic kids make big decisions with confidence. Her own daughter was diagnosed with autism at 16. Melissa also brings a child's-eye view of divorce: her parents split when she was 12, and she grew up moving between two very different households. Before coaching, she spent 30 years in executive leadership with Whole Foods Market. Her philosophy is simple: parents of autistic kids don't need more noise. They need clarity, confidence, and calm. 🌐 CONNECT WITH MELISSA BERGER Website: https://www.melissakberger.com 📖 RESOURCES MENTIONED James Hunt, Stories About Autism (Instagram: @storiesaboutautism) and his memoir, Love Needs No Words 💙 BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES Free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Instagram: @been_there_got_out Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists. If your ex makes co-parenting your special needs child feel impossible, you don't have to figure it out alone. #AutismParenting #CoParenting #HighConflictDivorce #AutismMom #SpecialNeedsParenting #ParentingPlan #IEP #Neurodivergent #CustodyBattle #CoParentingTips #NarcissisticEx #BeenThereGotOut

  2. 5d ago

    Parental Alienation in Court: What to Ask the Judge For Without Saying "Alienation"

    When your child starts pulling away, it's natural to want to prove to the world what your ex is doing. But the parents who make the most progress are often the ones who focus on patterns, on protecting themselves, and on asking for the right kind of help, rather than fighting over labels. In this conversation, Lisa sits down with parental alienation expert witness and author Dr. Lynn Steinberg to unpack the myths that keep alienated parents stuck, the laws changing what family courts can order, and the everyday behaviors that can accidentally look like alienation to a judge, even when you're the one trying to protect your kids. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ What parental alienation actually means, and why the behavior matters more than the terminology ✅ Why "it's not in the DSM" isn't evidence that alienation doesn't exist ✅ How covert alienation hides behind "I support the relationship, but I can't force them" ✅ Why protecting your shared parenting time early matters so much ✅ What relief you can request without leading with the word "alienation" ✅ Why "eye shot" matters as much as earshot, and why "Are you okay?" calls can backfire ✅ Why both parents need to be listed on school, medical, and activity records ✅ What to do when your child is sick during your ex's parenting time ✅ How Kayden's Law and California's Piqui's Law affect reunification ✅ Why re-establishing the parent-child hierarchy matters in therapy ABOUT DR. LYNN STEINBERG: Lynn Steinberg, Ph.D., holds a doctorate in clinical psychology and is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and Registered Clinical Counsellor. She serves as an expert witness in family court for alienated parents, runs a four-day therapeutic reunification program called One Family at a Time, and is a trained mediator. She is the author of You're Not Crazy: Overcoming Parent/Child Alienation, a practical guide for alienated parents navigating the court system, and is currently writing Parental Alienation: An Inconvenient Truth. 🌐 MORE FROM DR. LYNN STEINBERG: Website: https://www.lynnsteinberg.com Book: You're Not Crazy: Overcoming Parent/Child Alienation (available on Amazon) 📚 BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES: Our book When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You, our Parental Alienation course, and free 30-minute discovery calls: https://beentheregotout.com/book2 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog Instagram: @been_there_got_out This video is for educational purposes only and is not legal or mental health advice. Laws vary by state and country, so please talk with a qualified family law attorney about your situation. #ParentalAlienation #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #AlienatedParent #ReunificationTherapy #KaydensLaw #CoParentingTips #DivorceWithKids

  3. Oct 15

    How to Calm Your Nervous System Before Court: Breathing, Movement & Decisions

    If you've been fighting in family court for months or years and your body won't cooperate, you are not failing. Maybe you're exhausted but can't sleep. Maybe you forget things, feel numb, or gain weight no matter how hard you work out. Your nervous system is doing exactly what it was built to do under chronic threat. In this episode, Lisa talks with Dr. Jen Lee, a physical therapist who works where your body and your story meet. She explains why long legal battles push so many survivors into fight-or-flight and then dissociation, how that shows up as real physical symptoms, and what you can do right now, even while your case is still open, to come back to yourself. Lisa knows this one firsthand. In the thick of her own case, she worked out three or four days a week and still gained weight. Her doctor asked what else was going on in her life. The answer was all of it. Her body was not broken. It was just braced. This is for you if you are in court now, out of court but still on edge, or still planning your exit. You are not too late. You are not too far gone. You make sense. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why feeling frozen during a custody battle is a normal stress response  ✅ How dissociation protects you, and why it isn't meant to last  ✅ Physical signs your body is stuck in survival mode  ✅ Why your reactive brain is the wrong brain for depositions and text replies  ✅ Why memory gaps are normal, and how notes protect you  ✅ A simple extended-exhale breath that tells your body you're safe  ✅ How movement and singing bring you back into your body  ✅ Why you don't have to wait until court is over to start healing  ✅ How keeping small promises to yourself rebuilds self-trust WHY THIS MATTERS Courts notice how you show up. When your body is stuck in survival mode, it is hard to think clearly, stay calm and say what you mean. Care for your nervous system is not a luxury. It is part of your case, and part of how you get your life back. ABOUT DR. JEN LEE Dr. Jennifer Lee has been a physical therapist for 16 years. She spent her first decade in orthopedics treating back, neck and knee pain, then went through what she calls her own nervous breakdown in 2017. That experience sent her deep into the study of the nervous system and why stress and trauma show up as pain. Today she uses the Barral approach, including visceral and neural manipulation, at her practice in Phoenix, Arizona. Her work is gentle and never "no pain, no gain." CONNECT WITH DR. JEN LEE Website: https://l2ept.com  Instagram: @l2ept  Practice: Phoenix, Arizona BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES Strategic Communication course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication Our book: https://beentheregotout.com/book2  Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog  Instagram: @been_there_got_out  Free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com For education only, not medical or mental health advice. Please talk with a qualified provider about your own care. #NervousSystemRegulation #Dissociation #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #NarcissisticAbuseRecovery #LegalAbuse #TraumaHealing #VisceralManipulation #DivorceStress #BeenThereGotOut

  4. Oct 12

    How to Stay Grounded: Advice from a Parental Alienation Support Group Founder

    When your child won't talk to you, the pain can feel so physical that you don't know where to put it. Lawrence Joss knows that feeling well. He started Parental Alienation Advocates because he couldn't find anything that could "reach the itch," and today its free, peer-run 12-step meetings, Parental Alienation Anonymous (PAA), are a lifeline for alienated parents and grandparents around the world. Right before we recorded, we got a message from someone who knows us both, saying PAA saved his life and his relationship with his daughter. So we asked Lawrence to walk us through what actually works when the court system is grinding you down and your kids are pulling away. What he shared challenges a lot of well-meaning advice. Taking the high road isn't always the right move. "Being nice is not a shortcut." Insisting everyone understand the words "parental alienation" can cost you more than it gains. And stepping back to give your child space, without understanding the consequences, can quietly reinforce the other parent's message that you don't care. Most of all, Lawrence keeps coming back to one truth: if you aren't grounded and resourced, you can't show up the way your kids, the judge, or you yourself need you to. In this conversation, you'll learn: ✅ Why family court problems are systemic, not personal, and how that shift protects you ✅ How to tell the difference between acceptance and giving up when your child rejects you ✅ How to ask the court for relief without ever using the label "parental alienation" ✅ Why a "cooling off" period can backfire in alienation cases ✅ What to say when friends and acquaintances ask how your kids are doing ✅ How to check your motives before showing up at your child's events ✅ What to expect at your first Parental Alienation Anonymous meeting Lawrence also shares his own story: six years with no contact with one daughter, blocked on everything, and then, after years of doing his own work, reconnecting with her and meeting his grandkids for the first time. As he puts it, "It didn't come in the order that I wanted, but it came in the order that I needed." If you've been told it's too late, or you're exhausted from carrying this alone, this episode is for you. You deserve support through this, and you don't have to find it by yourself. CONNECT WITH LAWRENCE JOSS & PARENTAL ALIENATION ADVOCATES 🌐 Parental Alienation Advocates: https://pa-a.org 🤝 Parental Alienation Anonymous meetings: https://parentalalienationanonymous.com 🎙️ Podcast: Family Disappeared (search it on your favorite podcast app) BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES 📖 Our book, When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0GDJQKLVK 📚 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication 📞 Book a free 30-minute discovery call: https://beentheregotout.com 💬 Instagram: @been_there_got_out This video is for educational purposes and is not legal or mental health advice. If you are in crisis in the U.S., call or text 988. For domestic violence support, call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-7233. #ParentalAlienation #AlienatedParent #ParentalAlienationSupport #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #FamilyCourt #EmotionalRegulation #12Steps

  5. Oct 8

    Can Your Ex Use Your Therapy Against You in Custody?

    Can your therapy be used against you in a custody case? It's one of the most common fears we hear, and it keeps far too many parents from getting help they need right when they need it most. New York matrimonial and family law attorney Lisa Zeiderman returns to Been There Got Out with an honest answer. When custody is at issue, your mental health records can often be subpoenaed. But the parent who gets treatment, stays consistent, and shows insight is usually in a stronger position than the parent who avoids help. As Lisa puts it, it's not about the diagnosis; it's about compliance. Lisa also explains which parts of your records are usually protected, the safeguards your attorney can ask the court for, and why pulling your child's therapist into your case can do real harm. WHAT YOU'LL LEARN ✅ Why custody cases can open your medical and mental health records  ✅ Why avoiding therapy can hurt you more than any diagnosis  ✅ What courts look for: honesty, consistency, and treatment compliance  ✅ The difference between a therapist's private notes and your records  ✅ What's usually discoverable: diagnosis, attendance, and medication  ✅ Safeguards to request, like in camera review and attorneys-only access  ✅ How motions to quash or limit a subpoena work  ✅ Why subpoenaing your child's therapist should be a last resort  ✅ How a stipulation can keep your child's therapy out of court  ✅ How to respond when your ex keeps calling you "crazy" ABOUT LISA ZEIDERMAN Lisa Zeiderman is a managing partner at Miller Zeiderman LLP, a matrimonial and family law firm serving Manhattan, Westchester, Brooklyn, Long Island, and the Hudson Valley. Since 2013 she has grown the practice from four people to about 55, with a focus on complex litigated custody cases and high-net-worth divorce. She is a Certified Divorce Financial Analyst and a founding member of the American Academy of Certified Financial Litigators, and she recently co-authored a New York Law Journal article on mental health records in child custody cases. This is her second conversation with us, and she's known for walking into negotiations and courtrooms prepared. CONNECT WITH LISA ZEIDERMAN 🌐 Blog: https://lisazeiderman.com  ⚖️ Miller Zeiderman LLP: https://mzwnylaw.com  📧 Email: lz@mzw-law.com  🎧 Lisa's first BTGO episode: https://youtu.be/av0yq0fg7yo   BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES 📖 When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You: https://beentheregotout.com/book2  💬 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication  📝 Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog  📱 Instagram: @been_there_got_out  🎙️ Podcast: https://beentheregotout.buzzsprout.com This episode is educational and isn't legal advice. Lisa practices in New York, and procedures and terminology vary by state and country, so talk with a licensed attorney where you live about your situation. #CustodyBattle #MentalHealthAndCustody #TherapyRecords #HighConflictDivorce #FamilyLaw #ChildCustody #CoParenting #NarcissisticAbuse #ParentalAlienation #DivorceAdvice

  6. Oct 5

    When an 11-Year-Old Chooses Which Parent to Live With: A Mediator's Story of Loss & Return

    🎯 "I thought my world had collapsed." When Katy Harris separated, a court order followed her 11-year-old son's wishes: he would live with his dad, while his older and younger brothers stayed with her. Within months, contact had stopped. Then came the part no court ever sees. In this deeply honest conversation, Lisa talks with Katy and her colleague Lucy, two UK family mediators on opposite ends of the custody spectrum. Katy is the mom whose middle son walked away. Lucy is the stepmom whose partner won custody of his two girls for safety reasons. Together they explore what children really need when their parents separate, and why an 11-year-old should never carry the weight of choosing. Content note: This conversation includes discussion of child criminal exploitation, substance use, and a family member's suicide. Please take care while watching. What You'll Learn: ✅ Why letting a child choose where to live can leave them more vulnerable, not less ✅ Why the "in-between" middle child (ages 11 to 13) is especially at risk after separation ✅ How exploiters and gangs target children who feel they don't belong anywhere ✅ Why a child who comes home can't simply pick up where they left off ✅ What "keeping the door open" looks like when your child says they want nothing to do with you ✅ Why it's the conflict, not the separation, that harms children most ✅ The lifeboat image that explains why some kids reach for neither parent ✅ What a stepparent carries, and how Lucy built a working relationship with her stepdaughters' mom ✅ How skilled mediators find "one small agreement" to soften two angry parents ✅ Why no court can build the village a separating family needs, and how to start building it yourself About Katy Harris & Lucy: Katy Harris is an accredited family and civil mediator and the founder of Mediation Matters Midlands and The London Mediation Company in the UK. She holds a law degree, spent 17 years as a child development consultant focused on raising resilient children and supporting their mental health, and retrained as a mediator after her own difficult separation. She specializes in child-inclusive, trauma-informed mediation, trains mediators internationally, and co-hosts the Bridging the Gap conference with Tracy Ann Moore-Grant of the Amicable Divorce Network. Lucy is a family mediator at Mediation Matters Midlands with a background in psychology and counseling and a master's degree in child and adolescent mental health. Her master's research focused on how stepparents affect children, a subject she knows firsthand as a stepmom of two and a mom of one. A quick note for our US and Canadian viewers: Cafcass is the UK service that advises family courts on children's welfare, and a MIAM is the confidential assessment meeting required before most UK family mediation. "County lines" refers to drug gangs that exploit children as couriers. CONNECT WITH KATY & LUCY: 🌐 Mediation Matters Midlands: https://mediationmattersmidlands.co.uk 📧 Email: info@mediationmattersmidlands.co.uk 💼 Katy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katy-harris-2096bb85/ 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MediationMattersMidlandsLtd/ 📸 Instagram: Mediation Matters Midlands Ltd 🏛️ Also: The London Mediation Company and the Bridging the Gap conference BEEN THERE GOT OUT RESOURCES: 📕 When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You (foreword by Bill Eddy): https://BeenThereGotOut.com/Book2 📚 Strategic Communication Course: https://programs.beentheregotout.com/strategic-communication 📞 Free 30-minute discovery call: https://BeenThereGotOut.com 📸 Instagram: @been_there_got_out 🌐 Blog: https://beentheregotout.com/blog #ParentalAlienation #ChildRefusesContact #HighConflictDivorce #CoParenting #FamilyMediation #Stepmom #CustodyBattle #DivorceAndKids #KeepTheDoorOpen #BeenThereGotOut

  7. Sep 14

    The Unseen Parent: A Targeted Mom on the Undermining That Starts Before You Divorce

    "One parent becomes the good parent, and one parent becomes the bad parent." That's how Shawna Leatherman describes the moment parental alienation actually begins, and it's almost never in a courtroom. It starts small: a "no more juice" overruled at bedtime, a rule at one house that quietly doesn't apply at the other. Thirteen years into her own experience with parental alienation, Shawna, who writes and speaks as "The Unseen Parent," walks through exactly how those tiny, seemingly insignificant moments compound into a full alienation pattern, and why almost nobody sees it happening until it's too late. In this conversation, Shawna and Lisa break down the mechanics of undermining, exclusive alliance, and what psychologist Dr. Amy Baker calls "poisonous messages" - the subtle signals that tell a child their other parent is unsafe, unloving, or unavailable. You'll hear how something as small as a sigh before answering the phone, or asking "are you okay?" a little too often, can quietly convince a child that one home isn't safe. This is a practical, pattern-recognition-focused conversation for any co-parent who suspects something is happening but can't quite name it yet.    WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:  ✅ How undermining ("no, it's okay, you can have it") lays the groundwork for exclusive alliance  ✅ The difference between the "enforcer" parent and the "rescuer" parent — and why it matters  ✅ What it means to "minimize the other parent's authority," and how kids absorb it  ✅ The "Three U's" framework: how poisonous messages paint a parent as unsafe, unloving, or unavailable  ✅ Why the "are you okay?" phone call is one of the most common (and least recognized) forms of alienation  ✅ The "eye shot" rule — why body language matters even when your child can't hear you  ✅ Why most parents doing these things aren't fully aware of the damage they're causing  ✅ How to start recognizing these patterns in your own co-parenting relationship before they compound    ABOUT SHAWNA LEATHERMAN:  Shawna Leatherman is a mother, writer, and advocate who has lived through parental alienation for almost 13 years. She created "The Unseen Parent" as a resource and community for parents who feel isolated, unheard, and judged for an experience most people don't understand. She is the author of "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts — Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," which draws on her own journal-writing as a form of therapy and offers a faith-rooted perspective on truth, forgiveness, and resilience. Shawna's work focuses on making alienation dynamics visible — not as a men-versus-women issue, but as a behavioral pattern that can happen to any parent, and one she believes needs to be discussed openly rather than in silence.    🔗 CONNECT WITH SHAWNA:  Book: "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts - Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, and Kindle.  Instagram, TikTok & YouTube: search "The Unseen Parent"

  8. Sep 10

    Is Your Co-Parenting Conflict Fueling Teen Addiction Risk?

    "A toxic environment is a toxic environment, whether the parents are together or they're separate." That's not a divorce coach talking. That's Dave Kopeny — a former probation officer, school counselor, and sheriff's department investigator who now works as a private investigator specializing in families whose teenagers are struggling with substance use. And what he told Lisa in this conversation is something every parent navigating a high-conflict divorce or difficult co-parenting situation needs to hear: research shows an amicable divorce is actually better for a child's mental health than staying in a toxic marriage. The problem is, most of the people in our community don't have an amicable divorce. They have a toxic divorce and a toxic co-parenting situation — and that, Dave explains, is one of the heaviest burdens a child can carry, precisely because they have no control over it. This episode goes far beyond drug facts and statistics. Dave draws a direct line between the conflict a child witnesses at home — whether inside a marriage or across two households — and their risk of turning to substances to cope with feelings they don't know how to name. He also speaks candidly to a dynamic so many BTGO parents live with every day: the co-parent who checks out entirely. Dave sees it often in his own work with families — usually a father who doesn't have day-to-day custody, is angry at his ex, and simply stops showing up. Dave's advice for the parent left holding it all is direct, practical, and free of judgment. What You'll Learn: ✅ Why research shows an amicable divorce protects kids better than a toxic intact marriage ✅ How ongoing co-parenting conflict becomes a burden kids have no ability to control  ✅ What to do when only one parent is willing to engage with a struggling teen  ✅ Why you can't have a productive conversation with your child while you're dysregulated yourself  ✅ The specific behavioral changes Dave tells parents to document before confronting a teen  ✅ Why a mother's intuition about her child is worth listening to — and what Dave tells fathers about it  ✅ How to reframe a hard conversation as "you and your child against addiction," not you against your child  ✅ Why today's marijuana is a different, far more potent substance than the drug earlier generations knew  ✅ The "four eyes vs. two eyes" problem single parents face — and who to bring in when you can't partner with your ex  ✅ How to open a non-shaming conversation with a teen you're worried about, in under two minutes About Dave Kopeny: Dave Kopeny brings a rare, full-circle perspective to the world of adolescent substance use. He grew up in a household shaped by his father's alcoholism, later lost a brother to long-term addiction and a sister-in-law to a heroin overdose — experiences that shaped both his empathy and his career. Dave spent decades working directly with high-risk youth, starting as a juvenile probation officer in California, then serving as a school counselor, returning to intensive probation work, and later investigating for a sheriff's department. Today, as a private investigator, he specializes in helping families whose children are struggling with substance use disorder find their way toward lasting sobriety. He is the author of a book on adolescent addiction and founded a free online community where parents can learn the facts about teen substance use without cost or obligation.

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4.3
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About

Chris and Lisa of BeenThereGotOut.com both survived toxic marriages with narcissistic partners and the legal and co-parenting nightmares that go hand-in-hand with all of that.If you are struggling in a high-conflict relationship, divorce, custody battle, or co-parenting hell which requires PERSONALIZED attention, let us HOLD YOUR HAND along the way, while providing EXPERT, STRATEGIC guidance based on one's years of success (representing myself in court!), coupled with the other's High Conflict Divorce Coach certification.Our podcast features interviews with lawyers, therapists, co-parenting coordinators, guardians ad litem, and other subject matter experts, as well as other content, all with one goal in mind: Let us teach you how to HELP YOURSELF!

Information

  • Creator
    Chris & Lisa
  • Years Active
    2022 - 2026
  • Episodes
    386
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 2026 BTGO, LLC
  • Show Website
    Been There Got Out Podcast

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