Not by the Playbook

BBC World Service
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  • Sports
  • Updated Biweekly

Inspirational stories from around the world. Interviews with people defying the odds. Discover Not by the Playbook - the podcast which seeks out the most incredible stories from sportspeople and athletes. We bring you interviews with the sporting heroes who have achieved success in the face of seemingly impossible challenges. Hear from some of the most famous names in sport on subjects you've never heard them discuss before. You don't have to be an Olympic champion to have an extraordinary story – we also scour the globe for inspiring individuals who make a difference through sport. Whether you’re a football or soccer fan, tennis lover, golf aficionado or cricket addict, or even if you're not a sports fan at all, you’ll find inspiration in the stories of resilience, determination, and discipline. Expect insightful, honest, and thought-provoking conversations from people who live and breathe sport. Listen to Not by the Playbook on the BBC World Service every Saturday at 0900 GMT, or find it as a podcast wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

  1. 6d ago

    Originals

    It's nearly 20 years since Wimbledon decided to award equal prize money. The tennis world has come a long way since a group of women players known as "The Original 9" eventually forced the creation of a Women's tour. Billie Jean King was the most famous of the Original 9, but Julie Heldman was also one of the nine, and her mother, Gladys, also played a crucial role... I've been speaking to Julie about that and what life was like as a top female tennis player back in the later 1960's. But Julie's story is made all the more remarkable when you learn about what life was really like with Gladys Heldman as your mother behind closed doors... and I should warn you, I found much of what Julie had to say very hard to listen to.  Before the original tournament was held in the States in 1994, there was no professional league, but the popularity of the world Cup spawned the MLS, one of its first stars was Paul Wright. A goal scoring machine Paul was a pioneer of the game and is still very much involved in his hometown of San Diego, from where he is nurturing the next generation of talent... In the US sports like basketball and American football have free school programmes, playing to a high standard without having to pay. Not so soccer, where you have to join a club in a "Pay to play" system and that can be expensive, anywhere up to $10,000 a year! In Europe that cost tends to be heavily subsidised by professional teams of national federations. It leaves American kids at the lower end of the socio-economic ladder unable to play the game... So, Paul decided to do something about that. Tensions between the United Stated and Iran are not a new thing. Far from it, but could there be a place for football in the road to peace? The Iranian national football team left a note in its locker room at the Los Angeles Stadium after their game against Belgium earlier in the competition, thanking the people of Los Angeles for their hospitality during the World Cup. The note ended "We wish peace, respect, and friendship among all the nations of the world". Well, after the two countries met competitively at the 1998 World Cup in France, a couple of original thinkers organised a friendly match between the two nations. The US would host Iran before a proposed return fixture... This is the story of how that game at the Rose Bowl in California came to pass in the late 1990's The remarkable story of tennis star Liesl Herbst who just after the second world war competed at Wimbledon with her daughter Dorli to play in the ladies' doubles. They remain the only mother and daughter who have competed together at Wimbledon. Felice Hardy, granddaughter of Liesl and daughter of Dorli, and author of "The Tennis Champion Who Escaped The Nazis", told their story to Not by the Playbook's Megan Jones. PHOTO: Top female tennis players hold up their $1 bills which will make them contract pros and eligible to play for money instead of trophies in the Virginia Slims tournament at the Houston Racquet Club in defiance of the USLTA. The players are (standing, L-R) Valerie Ziegenfuss, Billie Jean King, Nancy Richey, Peaches Bartkowicz; (seated, L-R) Judy Tegart Dalton, Kerry Melville, Rosie Casals, manager Gladys Heldman, and Kristy Pigeon. The players breakaway from the tennis establishment eventually lead the way to the formation of the Women's Tennis Association. Not pictured: Julie Heldman. (CREDIT: Bela Ugrin/Houston Chronicle via Getty Images)

  2. Jul 3

    Two weeks at Wimbledon

    It's one of the most refined sporting venues in the world. Hydrangeas and petunias, complemented by climbing roses and foxgloves, A glorious display of purple white and green. Welcome to South East London and the All England Lawn Tennis & Croquet Club club here in Wimbledon We start with the remarkable story of Andrea Jaeger. Her career burned bright like the star she is, and in a flash it was over. Remarkably she turned pro aged just 14. By 16 she was ranked number two in the world, then she made the French Open final and the following year she did the same at Wimbledon. By 19 she had retired through injury. A bundle of energy and positive vibes Andrea joined us as she watched on from her home in Florida. Within the vast complex of arenas and buildings that make up the All England Club, there's a spot that is unusually quiet, but not for long! The press conference centre, where after each match players are expected to open their souls to journalists and explain how the snatched victory from defeat, or maybe the other way round. Up there on stage behind the microphones can feel like a very lonely place, in fact being on tour can be a very isolating experience. In recent years there has been a trend amongst players, but bring their pet dogs on tour with them! But actually that first happened some time ago! More on that in a moment from our poochie pioneer, who was also a semi finalist here in 1991 beating Andre Agassi and Ivan Lendl on the way... American David Wheaton has been chatting to me from his home in Minnesota about how WImbledon helped him find a higher calling in life Murray Mound, or Henman Hill as it was known actually has the official title of Aorangi Terrace and it's a beautiful spot to enjoy a drink, sit on the grass with friends and watch the action on the big screens mounted on the outside of centre court. It's the sort of place anyone could fall in love with tennis. Something Edward Schmit would approve of. He has just published his first novel "The Open Era" and according to the back cover "combines three things close to Edwards heart: queer love stories, mental health awareness, and the most beautiful sport in the world: tennis... The Wimbledon Lawn Tennis Museum is full of interactive displays that tell the story of the championships from its inception in 1887. One corner of the museum is dedicated to the American tennis player Maureen Connolly. She was the first woman to win the tennis Grand Slam in 1953. That's all four major tournaments in the same year! Nicknamed “Little Mo” after a US warship, Connolly dominated her sport and became a global celebrity, but her career was cut short by injury and she died an early death. PHOTO: An aerial view of Wimbledon's Centre and Number one courts and the grounds (CREDIT: Chris Gorma/Getty Images)

  3. Jun 26

    So much more than sport

    With around 15 tattoos across her arms neck and throat and a habit of wearing temporary tattoos on her face when playing, it's fair to say Oleksandra Oliynykova has a distinctive look. But she also has a fearsome will to win, and is knocking on the door of the top 50, in women's tennis. Born in Ukraine, when war broke out in 2014, she escaped to Croatia. It was there that her tennis career flourished. Now aged 25 she is back living and training in Ukraine, making her the only professional tennis player doing so. Oleksandra has been telling us she believes many more of her fellow players should be more vocal on the subject or the Ukraine war. The Klitschko brothers Wladimir and Vitali, dominated the heavyweight boxing division during a period known simply as "the Klitschko era" When Vitali hung up his gloves in 2012 he entered another bruising profession - politics. In 2014, Vitali was elected the Mayor of Kiev, a position he has held ever since. He has become a symbol of resistance and explained the daily struggles the people of the city of Kiev face Karate has only ever been an Olympic discipline once. Perhaps unsurprisingly in Tokyo at the Games a few years ago. So to win an Olympic medal in the sport is an extremely rare event. So imagine working your whole life to win that and then to give it away! Well that is exactly what Stanislav Horuna did. A Bronze medallist in the "Kumite" 75 kg category within weeks he had auctioned it off to raise for finances to help Ukraine's war effort. Spring forward to 2026 and much to Stan's surprise he has been given his medal back. He's been explaining how. When Shakhtar Donetsk won the Uefa Cup in 2009, it was meant to be the start of a new chapter for independent Ukraine. However, when war broke out in 2014, the team's ambitions were put on hold. The club captain, Darijo Srna, has been explaining how he and his family coped in the aftermath (Photo: Oleksandra Oliynykova of Ukraine competes in the Billie Jean King Cup, 11 April, 2026. Credit: Marcin Golba/Getty Images)

  4. Jun 19

    A fantastic adventure

    "Jobs fill your pocket, but adventures fill your soul." So said US actress Jamie Lyn Beatty. So this week we fill your soul with fantastical adventures and adventurers. Belgium Tom de Dorlodot soars through the air like an eagle, exploring places untouched by humans. He does it all by harnessing the power of the wind and his spirit of adventure. Tom is a record breaking paraglider who has crossed some of the most challenging terrains on earth Jono Ridler, is an ultra-marathon swimmer and environmental advocate from New Zealand best known for breaking world endurance records to protect the ocean. In 2026, he completed his most ambitious challenge yet, swimming the length of the North Island of New Zealand from North Cape to Wellington - a 1,400 km swim that took 90 days to complete. It was the longest, unassisted staged swim in history. Called Swim4TheOcean, it called on political leaders to end the fishing practice of bottom trawling in New Zealand. Back in 1988 Australia's Kay Cottee became the first woman to sail solo, non-stop, and unassisted around the world. Not by the Playbook's Simon Watts hears her memories of nearly 200 days at sea. Being adventurous is often a solo task, but in the case of Luciano Wernicke it's a family affair. Luciano is best known in his native Argentina as a prolific author and sports historian. It's a passion that has taken him and his family all over the world. His latest book is called '501 World Cup Moments'. We didn't have time to go through them all so instead we picked out those from previous tournaments in Mexico and the USA. PHOTO: Tom de Dorlodot of Belgium soars over the cliffs in front of Tre Cime di Lavaredo (CREDIT: Adam Pretty/Getty Images for LUMIX)

  5. Jun 12

    World Cup: Beyond the pitch

    "Some people think football is a matter of life and death... I can assure them it is much more serious than that." So said legendary Liverpool manager Bill Shankly. And whilst the World Cup is on, it can certainly feel like that, but whether you're a fanatic, glued to every last moment of action, or doing whatever you can to avoid being subjected to it, what you can't deny is the impact of soccer. So this week stories four World Cup stories that about so much more than soccer with a tale from Mexico, Canada and the USA To Mexico where, as well as the competition's opening match in Mexico City, there will be games in both Monterrey and Guadalajara. Buoyed on by their passionate fans, Mexico will also have supporters a in a small enclave of the British Isles. Because deep in the South West of the UK is the county of Cornwall where over one hundred a fifty years ago a group of miners packed their picks and shovels and headed to Mexico to dig for silver, and in doing so introduced the sport of soccer. There will be a total of 13 matches hosted by Canada at this World Cup... They have some experience because back in 2015 Canada hosted the Women's Soccer World Cup. It was also the year that Harry Manson a soccer player, became the inaugural First Nations athlete to be inducted into Canada's Sports Hall of Fame. Harry's is a story of inspiration and recognition for a community often disadvantaged, but his is also a sad one, a life tragically cut short. Harry Manson's story is also a microcosm of what life was like for Canada’s indigenous population in the late 19th century and for subsequent generations. Through the eyes of his family, including grandson Gary Manson, and historian Robert Jennings, we tell that story In 1994 the USA hosted the FIFA Men's World Cup for the first time. The choice of host nation was a controversial one because, at that time, the US didn't have an active professional football league. Alan Rothenberg was the man in charge of organising the competition. He decided to book Motown legend, Diana Ross, to headline the opening ceremony in Chicago.. Something that turned out to become an iconic moment in World Cup history. Alan has been sharing his memories of the tournament And last but not least the most important part of any sport.The fans! Or at least you'd hope so, but with things like high ticket prices it can often seem more like a money grab. Andy Milne has seen the way the World Cup has changed having travelled to the Men's competition since 1982. He's in North America in the hopes that his beloved England will fulfil a nation's dream and win the competition again! But for Andy the game is only a small part of the World Cup experience. For Andy it's the friendships he makes on the way that mean the most. PHOTO: FIFA World Cup Trophy is displayed (CREDIT: Hector Vivas - FIFA/FIFA via Getty Images)

  6. Jun 5

    Close knit

    This week we take a tour of England highlighting the stories and legends from every part of "This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England." to borrow a quote from William Shakespeare! We start in the deep South West and the port city of Plymouth, birthplace of Olympic, World, European and Commonwealth diving champion Tom Daley. The poster boy of the London 2012 games; his debut came four years earlier in Beijing aged just fourteen. Now retired he lives in Los Angeles - very handy to watch the next games - with his husband and two children. Since hanging up his trunks Tom has become famous for knitting. In fact once he starts talking about it, it's rather difficult to get him talking about anything else! To the Midlands, represented by former Premier League footballer Dion Dublin. Aside from playing for Manchester United, Coventry City and Aston Villa, Dion also represented England in both defence and attack! Yet for a younger generation he's better known as host of the BBC Television show "Homes Under the Hammer"about buying, renovating and then selling properties purchased at auction. So before talking about the upcoming World Cup, does Dion fell he is more famous for football or for flogging houses on the telly?! We head to Liverpool in the north of England to meet double World Heptathlon Champion Katrina Johnson Thompson. Heptathletes are a different breed, competing over two days in 7 different events, unsurprisingly it can take a toll on the body and Katrina, or KJT as she's known has had more than her fair share of setbacks. After competing at four Olympics her only medal was a silver in Paris two years ago. So how does she balance the need to push herself to the limit, without taking it too far and causing her body to fail? it's one of the most iconic achievements in sporting history. In 1954, the late Sir Roger Bannister - a doctor living Oxford - became the first athlete to run a mile in less than four minutes. At the time this was one of the greatest prizes in athletics. Photo: Tom Daley of Team Great Britain knitting before the Men's 10m Platform Final at the Tokyo 2020 Olympic Games (CREDIT: Clive Rose/Getty Images)

  7. May 29

    Pioneering

    Four pioneers from four different sports all of whom trod a path where no path had previously existed. Along the way their determination not only made them legends, but gave all those who came after them the chance to see what success could look like and have something to emulate. Women's professional sport has, for most, only been a very recent thing. Take women's rugby, the professional era which is just for the very elite in the game only started in 2019 It's meant that for many it has been quite common to juggle an elite sporting career with something a little more regular. Unless you are Shaunagh Brown, because whatever Shaunagh does, she does it with style and swagger... so we suspect our chat about her life on and off the field would have been fun even if she'd been in data entry or a tax consultant! Her career straddled the pro era and she hung up her cleats in 2023 which means she's got the chance to add to an already long and interesting CV Women's boxing has only been in the Olympics since 2012... And Sweden's Anna Laurell Nash was there! For many years women boxing was at best frowned upon by many parts of society which added a whole level of pressure to those trying to make it succeed. What makes Anna's story so unusual that she was also pursuing a parallel career in academia. In fact now that she has hung up her gloves she holds a senior role at the Stockholm School of Economics, from where she spoke to us about where he love of pugilism started Hannah Cox is where a pioneering spirit meets running, and exploring, and good old fashioned adventuring! Here's the facts, she recently ran 100 marathons in 100 days in India, a remarkable feet for any athlete, perhaps even more so if they only started running 18 months ago! But for Hannah this is not just a story about physical endurance and mental resilience. It's also about completing a route no one had taken before in modern times and in doing so connecting her present day life with a past she knew very little about The world of ten pin bowling is not just a popular past time, but has a deeply competitive professional league... Before Kelly Kulick no woman had ever played on the professional tour. PHOTO: Shaunagh Brown of England is all smiles during an England Red Roses Training Session 2022 (CREDIT: Catherine Ivill - RFU/The RFU Collection via Getty Images)

  8. May 22

    Dominance

    Winning is great, but hard work. Never loosing is much rarer and almost impossible. This week four elite sport stars who didn't just win, they dominated. But how, and what sets them apart, what got them to the top and what made them stay there! We've had some big numbers on this show when it comes to medals, but no one comes remotely close to Jessica Long. The American swimmer has won an astonishing EIGHTY-FIVE medals at World Championships and Paralympics. FIFTY- FOUR of them gold! Jessica's story is one that has seen her overcome some of the most difficult physical and mental challenges anyone could face, but through them all she continued to dominate her sport. From being the youngest ever Paralympic gold medallist aged just 12, to a potential farewell at her home games in Los Angeles. But now a defining moment away from the pool. She's about to become a mother for the very first time! American professor of Linguistics Deborah Tannen once wrote "The effect of dominance is not always the result of an intention to dominate" and that's true of our first guest. Canada's Camryn Rogers is the reigning Olympic and World Hammer throw champion and in a few months time she will defend her Commonwealth title. Her dominance in the sport is in stark contrast to her life growing up with her mother in Canada where times were hard. Really hard. Including a year where they lived in a car. Talking to us from her home in Texas, Camyrn talked about all her successes, and the struggles to get there. Hamish Kerr is a man who has jumped to the top of the podium and has hung around. But I guess that's the whole point of the high jump. To get as high as possible and hang there long enough to clear the bar. At 6 foot 5 inches tall Hamish could have played basketball but instead focussed on track and field and boy how it's paid off. He is the current Olympic, World and Commonwealth Champion. And there are some indoor titles in there too just for good measure. Chatting from his home in New Zealand he told us about the impact his dominance of the sport is having on his life, and it's goes way beyond the track. Eddy Merckx dominated cycling. Back in the 1960's and 70's the Belgium won FIVE Tours de France, FIVE Giros d'Italia, and even a Vuelta a España, so it was going to take something quite remarkable to break that dominance. Out of nowhere, that's exactly what happened when he was punched in the face by a spectator during a mountain stage of the Tour De France. The incident marked the start of the decline of a rider so dominant he was nicknamed "The Cannibal". British cyclist Barry Hoban, who passed away in 2025 was riding alongside Merckx and reflected on the day PHOTO: Jessica Long of the United States competes at the London 2012 Paralympic Games (CREDIT: Clive Rose/Getty Images)

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About

Inspirational stories from around the world. Interviews with people defying the odds. Discover Not by the Playbook - the podcast which seeks out the most incredible stories from sportspeople and athletes. We bring you interviews with the sporting heroes who have achieved success in the face of seemingly impossible challenges. Hear from some of the most famous names in sport on subjects you've never heard them discuss before. You don't have to be an Olympic champion to have an extraordinary story – we also scour the globe for inspiring individuals who make a difference through sport. Whether you’re a football or soccer fan, tennis lover, golf aficionado or cricket addict, or even if you're not a sports fan at all, you’ll find inspiration in the stories of resilience, determination, and discipline. Expect insightful, honest, and thought-provoking conversations from people who live and breathe sport. Listen to Not by the Playbook on the BBC World Service every Saturday at 0900 GMT, or find it as a podcast wherever you get your BBC podcasts.

Information

  • Creator
    BBC World Service
  • Years Active
    2013 - 2026
  • Episodes
    580
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © (C) BBC 2026
  • Show Website
    Not by the Playbook

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