Sober Life Rocks ®️

Sober Life Rocks

The Sober Life Rocks Podcast is about more than quitting alcohol. It’s about changing the way we connect. Every week, host Margy Schaller sits down with leaders, entrepreneurs, physicians, psychologists, authors, hospitality innovators, event professionals, sober coaches, and everyday changemakers who are challenging the idea that alcohol is the price of belonging. Together, they explore alcohol-free living, sober leadership, inclusive events, workplace culture, hospitality, wellness, recovery, and authentic human connection—proving that when connection comes first, everyone belongs.

  1. 5d ago

    Do You Need to Have a Drinking Problem to Stop Drinking?

    Paula Devine stopped drinking for an entire year. And then she started again. What caught my attention wasn’t that she returned to alcohol. It was her reasoning. She’d gone twelve months without drinking, which seemed like pretty convincing evidence that she didn’t really have a problem. After all, if she could quit for a year, how much of a problem could alcohol possibly be? When Paula shared that during our Sober Life Rocks podcast conversation, I found myself thinking about how often we look for evidence that something isn’t bad enough to justify changing it, even when we’re not particularly happy with the way things are. https://youtu.be/GBlfkKl2dSI Do you have to hit rock bottom to stop drinking? The short answer is no. You don’t have to identify as an alcoholic, experience a crisis or wait until drinking has serious consequences before deciding you would rather live without alcohol. And yet, it’s surprising how often we approach the decision as though we do. We compare ourselves with people who drink more. We point to the responsibilities we’re managing, the relationships we’ve maintained and the days or weeks we can go without drinking. We reassure ourselves that things aren’t really that bad. Sometimes that’s true. But it doesn’t necessarily answer the more interesting question: Is alcohol making our lives better? Paula knows this territory well. Today she’s a certified recovery coach and founder of Happiest Hour, where she works with women who are questioning their relationship with alcohol. But before she reached that point, she spent years in what she describes as a “miserable middle place.” Her life wasn’t falling apart. She wasn’t drinking every day. From the outside, there was little to suggest anything was seriously wrong. Still, she knew something wasn’t quite right. That space between I don’t have a serious problem and I’m not happy with this can be surprisingly difficult to navigate, particularly when the people around us seem perfectly comfortable drinking. What is gray-area drinking? The term gray-area drinking is often used to describe a relationship with alcohol that doesn’t fit neatly into the familiar categories of casual drinking or severe alcohol dependence. Someone might drink only on weekends, take extended breaks or appear to have their drinking well under control, yet still spend considerable time questioning whether alcohol belongs in their life. Gray-area drinking isn’t a medical diagnosis. It’s a way some people describe an experience that doesn’t fit the traditional picture of having a drinking problem. And it’s one reason the growing conversation around sober curiosity matters. People are beginning to explore alcohol-free living without necessarily identifying as being in recovery. Some are experimenting with drinking less, others are taking longer breaks, and some are discovering they prefer not drinking at all. None of those choices requires a dramatic story. Why does not drinking still require an explanation? This is where Paula’s experience connects to something Laura and I talk about constantly at Sober Life Rocks. Alcohol is so embedded in our social lives that drinking is often treated as the default. We celebrate with it, network over it and offer it to guests almost automatically. So when someone decides not to drink, people naturally wonder why. Sometimes the question comes from genuine curiosity. Other times, there’s an assumption that something must have happened to prompt the decision. But imagine if we treated not drinking as simply another choice someone could make, without needing to know their reasons. That doesn’t mean dismissing the importance of recovery or the very real challenges of alcohol dependence. It means recognizing that people arrive at alcohol-free living through many different experiences, and all of them deserve room. What happens when you stop waiting for things to get worse? There’s another chapter in Paula’s story that I haven’t shared here, and it’s one of the reasons I wanted to have her on the podcast. Years after that first alcohol-free experiment, Paula reached a point where she decided to seek help. What happened next challenged her assumptions about what it meant to have a drinking problem—and whether she was entitled to ask for support. We also talked about what her life looks like today, what changed in ways she hadn’t expected, and what she’s learned from helping other women navigate that uncertain middle. I hope you’ll listen to her tell that story herself. Because perhaps the most useful question isn’t whether drinking has become bad enough to stop. Perhaps it’s whether you want alcohol to be part of your life at all. [Listen to my conversation with Paula Devine on Sober Life Rocks → EPISODE LINK] The post Do You Need to Have a Drinking Problem to Stop Drinking? first appeared on Sober Life Rocks.

  2. Oct 22

    Does Being Sober Have to Become Your Identity?

    I was looking at Jason Lyman’s Instagram before our podcast interview, trying to figure out how I wanted to introduce him. He’s a Realtor, a speaker, a father, a CrossFitter and an active member of the Sober Motivation community. Depending on which post I looked at, I could have come away with a completely different impression of what mattered most in his life. And then it occurred to me that maybe I was asking the wrong question. Why did I feel the need to figure out which part of his identity was the most important? Jason is sober, and that’s a significant part of his story. But it isn’t the only interesting thing about him, and I think there’s something worth exploring in that distinction. https://youtu.be/9yINDiNrLWs The enormous middle we don’t talk about enough For decades, we’ve had a fairly familiar cultural picture of sobriety. Someone develops a serious problem with alcohol, gets help, enters recovery and becomes a person in recovery. That identity can be an important source of support, belonging and purpose. More recently, we’ve seen another picture emerge. Someone stops drinking, discovers how much better life can be without alcohol and builds a public identity around that choice. They might start a business, create a community, write a book or devote their social media presence to helping others explore an alcohol-free life. There’s nothing wrong with either picture. Both have contributed enormously to changing the conversation about alcohol. But what about everybody in the enormous middle? The Realtors, executives, teachers, parents, artists and people in just about every other walk of life who don’t drink but haven’t made sobriety the organizing principle of their lives. They aren’t necessarily hiding their choice. They simply have other things going on. When I talked with Jason, I realized how rarely we hear from that group, even though they may represent one of the most important parts of normalizing sober choices. Jason is involved in sober communities and speaks openly about his experience, but he also spends his days selling houses, raising his daughters, exercising, building relationships and figuring out what he wants his life to look like next. He told me that sobriety had “lifted the cloud” and allowed him to fully shine. I found that fascinating because he wasn’t suggesting that getting sober had magically created a new person. It had given him more freedom to explore the person he already was, and perhaps some versions of himself he hadn’t yet discovered. When a choice becomes a label We humans do love our categories, don’t we? We want to know whether someone is a recovering alcoholic, sober curious, alcohol-free, a social drinker or something else entirely. Sometimes those labels are genuinely useful. They help people find support, communicate their choices and recognize others with shared experiences. But labels can also become expectations. If someone publicly identifies as sober, do we begin to assume that sobriety should be central to everything they do? Do we expect their friendships or professional interests to revolve around it? And if they don’t want that, does it somehow make their choice less meaningful? I don’t think it does. One of the things Jason talked about was the difference between saying “I’m not drinking right now” and “I don’t drink.” For him, that distinction matters because he isn’t treating sobriety as a temporary restriction or something he needs to negotiate every time he walks into a networking event. He simply doesn’t drink. And that made me think about how many ordinary choices we make without feeling obliged to build an identity around them. Someone might be vegetarian without making vegetarianism the subject of every conversation. Another person might be devoted to fitness without wanting to be known primarily as an athlete. We can make decisions that profoundly influence how we live without expecting those decisions to explain everything about us. Of course, alcohol is different in one important respect. Drinking has become so embedded in our social and professional culture that choosing not to participate can still invite questions, assumptions and occasionally uncomfortable conversations. That is precisely why I think the enormous middle matters. What would normalization actually look like? At Sober Life Rocks, Laura and I talk constantly about normalizing sober choices. It’s been our mission from the beginning, but conversations like the one I had with Jason keep challenging me to think more carefully about what that really means. Because normalization isn’t necessarily about getting more people to identify as sober. And it certainly isn’t about suggesting that people who drink are making the wrong choice. It’s about creating a culture where the choice itself becomes unremarkable. Imagine attending a professional networking event where nobody thinks twice about whether you’re holding a glass of wine, sparkling water or a beautifully made alcohol-free cocktail. You don’t have to explain yourself, reassure anyone that you’re still fun, or answer questions about whether something terrible happened to make you stop drinking. You can simply be there for the reason you came: to meet people, build relationships, learn something or enjoy yourself. That may sound like a small change, but I think it represents something much bigger. For years, alcohol has been treated as a standard ingredient in connection. It’s part of how we celebrate, network, entertain clients, relax after work and mark important occasions. When someone opts out, we sometimes treat the choice as though it requires an explanation. What if it didn’t? Jason’s experience offers an interesting glimpse of that possibility. He works in real estate, an industry where happy hours and networking events frequently involve alcohol. He doesn’t avoid those spaces, and he doesn’t feel that his decision not to drink needs to become the central topic when he’s there. That doesn’t mean the journey to that point was simple. In fact, the more we talked, the more interested I became in what he had to let go of beyond alcohol, including some of the assumptions he’d carried about who he was supposed to be. And that’s where I want to leave his story for now, because I think it’s worth hearing him tell it. Making room for the whole person There’s another reason this conversation matters to me. When I finally began talking publicly about my own sobriety after keeping it private for more than eighteen years, I was making a deliberate choice. I wanted to use my experience to help normalize sober choices and make it easier for other people to talk about theirs. But I’ve also spent decades as a speaker coach, business owner, wife, mother and someone who is still figuring out what she wants to do when she grows up. I don’t want any one of those identities to erase the others. And I wouldn’t want that for Jason, either. The more I think about it, the more I wonder whether the future of sober inclusion has less to do with creating a bigger category of sober people and more to do with making room for people to be exactly who they are. Some will find tremendous purpose in making sobriety their life’s work. Others will find community in recovery programs. And many will simply get on with their lives, making choices that work for them without feeling any particular need to explain those choices to the rest of us. All of those possibilities deserve room. I asked Jason what he hoped would become completely unremarkable about sobriety five years from now. His answer, and the conversation that followed, brought us right back to the assumptions people make about drinking, identity and what it means to change. We also explored a question that I think reaches far beyond alcohol: once you’ve made a big change in your life, how do you decide which parts of your old identity to keep and which ones you’re ready to leave behind? That’s a much more complicated conversation, and one I hope you’ll hear for yourself. Listen to my full conversation with Jason Lyman on Sober Life Rocks → [EPISODE LINK] The post Does Being Sober Have to Become Your Identity? first appeared on Sober Life Rocks.

  3. Oct 15

    Sobriety vs. Healing: Why Getting Sober Is Only the Beginning

    I was talking with a girlfriend recently about how it seems like almost everyone we know is just hanging on right now. Not necessarily falling apart or in crisis, but doing what needs to be done, getting through the day and keeping things moving. It got me thinking about the difference between surviving and healing. Most of us know how to survive. We push through, compartmentalize, tell ourselves we’re fine and get really good at functioning while carrying things we haven’t actually dealt with. Healing asks something different of us. It asks us to slow down long enough to notice what’s still there. For those of us who have stopped drinking, that raises an interesting question: What’s the difference between getting sober and actually healing? That question became the heart of my conversation with Wendy Grijalva, a fitness instructor and yoga, meditation and tai chi teacher who works both in recovery and in the broader community. Before we ever recorded, Wendy said something that stopped me: “Sobriety gave me the opportunity to heal. Sobriety didn’t heal me.” There’s a lot packed into that distinction. https://youtu.be/mpsWX0Mvsto When getting sober doesn’t fix everything I understood immediately what Wendy meant because I remember being terrified of this very thing when I got sober. My parents had gifted me with what I sometimes jokingly call a kinder, gentler intervention, and at one point the man I was talking with asked me what I was so afraid of. My answer was essentially: You don’t understand what’s in there. I imagined everything I had pushed down over the years sitting inside some enormous Pandora’s box. Alcohol helped me keep the lid on it. If we took alcohol away and opened the box, I genuinely wasn’t sure I would ever be able to put myself back together again. Wendy knew that fear too. She described a therapist noticing how quickly she could shut down her emotions when she started to cry. Wendy believed there was so much broken inside her that if she allowed all of it to come out, she might shatter completely. She told me she was almost willing to stay miserable rather than find out what was really in there. I wonder how often we do some version of that. Not necessarily with alcohol. Maybe it’s work, food, busyness, perfectionism, taking care of everyone else or staying in a situation that doesn’t work anymore. We can become remarkably attached to the coping mechanisms we know, even when they’re hurting us, because at least we understand how they work. For Wendy, sobriety was essential. But it wasn’t the end of the work. Some of what she needed to heal from had happened long before alcohol entered the picture. Removing alcohol didn’t erase childhood trauma, grief, fear or the ways she had learned to protect herself. It simply gave her the opportunity—and eventually the willingness—to look at them. Maybe sobriety doesn’t owe us a life without pain. Maybe what it gives us is the chance to experience our lives without continually running from the pain that’s already there. If I heal from this, who am I without it? There was another part of our conversation that I didn’t expect to find quite so interesting. Years ago, in early sobriety, I was in a group counseling session where we were asked to write down the thing we most didn’t want anyone to know—the demon we most didn’t want to face. We folded the papers, put them into a hat and then each pulled out someone else’s. The counselor asked us whether we’d rather have the problem we’d just pulled out or have our own back. Most of us wanted ours back. It sounds ridiculous until you think about it. We knew our own demons. We knew how to live with them. We’d built behaviors around them and explanations for ourselves because of them. In some cases, they’d even become part of our identities. Wendy and I started talking about something I don’t hear discussed very often: If I really do heal from this, who am I without it? Wendy has had to ask that question in profound ways. She has experienced childhood trauma, struggled with eating disorders and self-harm, once weighed 350 pounds, and lost her husband to suicide. Some of those experiences still travel with her even though she has done tremendous work to heal. She isn’t pretending they didn’t happen. She also isn’t willing to let them define the boundaries of the life she gets to have now. And that led to the line from our conversation that I haven’t stopped thinking about. “I’m managing more than I’m suffering.” Wendy still experiences anxiety. Depression can still sneak up on her. A smell can suddenly transport her back to a memory of her marriage or her husband. Getting sober, becoming physically healthier and learning mindfulness didn’t magically erase trauma and grief. But when she described her life today, she said: “I’m managing more than I’m suffering.” That may be one of the most useful definitions of healing I’ve heard. It doesn’t mean it never hurts anymore. It doesn’t mean I’ve fixed myself or I’ve moved on. It means the pain can still show up without running the whole show. Wendy has another way of saying it: she’s healing more than she’s struggling. I like the room those ideas leave for us to be human. We can be healing and happy. Healing and successful. Healing and helping other people. Healing and building something new. We don’t have to wait until every scar disappears before we’re allowed to have a big, beautiful life. And maybe that was the flaw in the fear Wendy and I both had all those years ago. We were terrified that if everything came out, we wouldn’t be able to put ourselves back together. But back to what? The person who had learned to push everything down? The person who needed alcohol to cope? The person who became so practiced at functioning that nobody could tell how much was happening underneath? Maybe healing isn’t about getting back to who we were at all. Wendy’s story certainly isn’t about eliminating pain from her life. It’s about learning what to do when that pain still shows up—and discovering that some of the very experiences she once thought might shatter her have become part of how she connects with and helps other people. That’s the part I don’t want to tell for her. In our full Sober Life Rocks conversation, Wendy and I talk about what she’s still healing from today, what losing more than 220 pounds did and didn’t change, how movement unexpectedly became part of her life, what she does when trauma still shows up in her body, and why she brings all of it—not some polished, finished version of herself—into the people and communities she serves. If you’ve ever accomplished the thing you thought was going to fix everything only to discover there was still more underneath it, I think you’ll find something in Wendy’s story. Getting sober may open the door. Healing is what we get to do once we walk through it. Stay connected with Wendy: Instagram: @breezywend Facebook: Wendy Grijalva  TikTok: @wendy.grijalva5 The post Sobriety vs. Healing: Why Getting Sober Is Only the Beginning first appeared on Sober Life Rocks.

  4. Oct 8

    When the Life You Worked So Hard to Save No Longer Fits

    When Sarah Treacy stopped drinking in 2020, she wasn’t trying to reinvent her entire life. In many ways, she was trying to preserve it. She had spent years building a successful corporate career, and when she got sober, she largely kept that part of her story private. She returned to work, kept moving forward and built the stability she had been looking for. From the outside, things were working exactly as they were supposed to. The problem was that, after a while, the life she had worked so hard to save didn’t feel quite like the life she wanted anymore. When Sarah and I recently sat down for the Sober Life Rocks podcast, that part of her story immediately caught my attention. We hear so much about what happens when someone realizes alcohol isn’t working for them anymore. We hear about the decision to stop, the early days without it and the process of learning how to navigate life differently. What we don’t hear nearly as much about is what happens several years later, when not drinking is no longer the central challenge. Sarah had reached a place where sobriety was working. Her career was successful. Nothing was falling apart. And yet a question had begun quietly following her around: Is this it? https://youtu.be/mMfuPVMtpXI Sarah has a name for that period now. She calls it the “sobriety plateau,” and the phrase captures something I suspect many people experience without knowing how to describe it. There can come a point when the life you were so grateful to reclaim starts asking something new of you. The question is no longer simply how to stay sober. It becomes what you actually want to do with the life sobriety gave you. For Sarah, the answer didn’t arrive all at once. One of the turning points came when she traveled to Zion for an adventure recovery retreat. She hadn’t been looking for a life that revolved around sobriety, and she certainly wasn’t interested in making “sober” her entire identity. Her assumptions about sober community weren’t particularly appealing to her either. She imagined people sitting around talking about drinking, recovery and everything they had left behind. What she found in Zion was something entirely different. She found women hiking together, exploring together, laughing together and challenging themselves. Sobriety was something they shared, but it wasn’t the only thing happening in the room—or on the trail. They were building friendships while doing something with their lives, and Sarah began to experience the kind of connection she hadn’t realized she was missing. Walking alongside people opened conversations differently. The usual walls seemed to come down. She began to see that sober community didn’t have to mean building a life around the fact that you no longer drink. It could mean having the freedom to build a life around everything you now have the ability to do. That experience didn’t send Sarah home with a perfectly mapped-out new life. If anything, it left her with bigger questions. She had spent two decades building her career, and admitting that she might want something else meant confronting the possibility of leaving something that wasn’t actually broken. There was no dramatic collapse forcing her hand. She would have to choose change simply because the life she had built no longer fit the person she was becoming. That can be much harder than walking away from something obviously bad. When everything looks fine from the outside, deciding you want something different requires trusting yourself without having a crisis to justify it. As Sarah began working through those questions, she also started looking differently at the role alcohol had once played in her life. What she had previously thought of as simply being social, having fun or keeping the party going had also been connected to something deeper—a desire to belong and to be accepted. Without alcohol in the picture, she had an opportunity to examine who she was when she wasn’t constructing herself around what she thought other people wanted from her. The more she accepted her own history, imperfections and choices, the less interested she became in asking the room for permission to be herself. Eventually, Sarah began sharing pieces of her story publicly. She didn’t wake up one morning and decide sobriety would become her entire identity. She simply stopped working quite so hard to keep that part of herself hidden. As she became more comfortable letting people see the whole person rather than the carefully separated pieces, another possibility began to emerge. Maybe the thing she had once preferred nobody knew about her could actually become part of how she connected with and helped other people. That evolution eventually became Sobriety Is the New Epic, a series Sarah created around a conversation that goes beyond getting sober and asks what people can build, experience and become afterward. I’m especially excited about what she is creating because I’ll be joining the series as a speaker. The reason I said yes is closely connected to what we are building at Sober Life Rocks. I’m interested in the moment when not drinking stops being the entire conversation and becomes one choice within a much larger life. Sarah initially wanted to highlight people doing extraordinary things in sobriety, but along the way she began noticing that the visible accomplishments were only part of the story. Behind the adventures, businesses, communities and big changes were much quieter things: learning to regulate emotions, building confidence, developing self-trust, changing habits and becoming willing to be uncomfortable long enough to discover what might be on the other side. Inspiration can show us what is possible, but eventually we have to stop watching other people change their lives and decide what we want to do with our own. That is where Sarah’s story became particularly interesting to me, because the question underneath our conversation wasn’t really about sobriety at all. It was about what happens when an identity, career, relationship, habit or version of yourself has done its job and you realize you’re ready for something different. We often assume we need a dramatic reason to change. Something needs to fail. Something needs to hurt badly enough. Something needs to prove that staying where we are is no longer an option. Sarah’s experience suggests there may be another way. Sometimes a life can be perfectly good and still no longer be yours. The reason Sarah originally stopped drinking doesn’t have to be the same reason she continues choosing this life years later. That “why” has been allowed to grow with her. Today the conversation is less about what she removed and much more about what became possible once she did. Maybe that is one of the places our larger conversation about sobriety is headed too. We don’t have to spend the rest of our lives standing at the moment we decided to stop drinking. We can keep walking. We can become professionals, parents, adventurers, creators, leaders, friends and people who happen not to drink. We can build communities where alcohol isn’t the price of admission without making sobriety the only thing everyone has in common. We can appreciate what sobriety changed without allowing it to define the boundaries of everything that comes next. My conversation with Sarah went into places I haven’t tried to unpack completely here, because they are worth hearing from her. We talked about what it felt like to consider walking away from a career she had spent twenty years building, what happened when she began sharing her sobriety more openly, the shame that stayed with her longer than she expected, and the difference between consuming inspiration and actually taking action. Those parts of Sarah’s story are where the conversation becomes much more personal, and they are also where I think many listeners will recognize pieces of themselves. I’ll also be continuing this conversation with Sarah through Sobriety Is the New Epic, where I’m honored to be joining her as a speaker. It feels like a natural extension of what Sarah and I explored on the podcast and of what we talk about so often at Sober Life Rocks: sober choices can open doors, but each of us still gets to decide where we want those doors to lead. Sarah went into sobriety focused on what she needed to leave behind. Several years later, she found herself standing in a good life and realizing she was allowed to want more from it. That led her to a question that has stayed with me since our conversation, and I think it’s worth sitting with whether you’ve been sober for twenty years, twenty days or have never considered yourself sober at all. Instead of only asking what you want to stop doing, maybe it’s worth asking what you want to become available for. For Sarah, that question became: What am I sober for? The answer is still unfolding. Maybe that’s the point. Stay Connected to Sarah: https://soberadventurecollective.com The post When the Life You Worked So Hard to Save No Longer Fits first appeared on Sober Life Rocks.

  5. Oct 1

    The Truth About Rock Stars, Alcohol & Creativity: Jake Jones on Life Behind the Music

    There were thousands of people outside Red Rocks waiting for the show. Inside, Jake Jones was walking his dad through the tunnels beneath one of the most legendary music venues in the country. They were passing memorabilia from artists like Jimi Hendrix and the Beatles. Jake was about to walk onto that same stage for the second time with his band. This is the sort of moment musicians are supposed to dream about. Except Jake was also beginning to realize that his band might be coming apart. I keep coming back to that scene from my conversation with Jake on the Sober Life Rocks podcast because there are almost two completely different stories happening at the same time. From the audience, this is what success looks like. From backstage, it’s much more complicated. Jake knows something about the distance between those two views. He was a member of the rock band We As Human, toured extensively, later worked as a producer and songwriter in Nashville, and now works in film production and post-production. In other words, he actually got to live inside a world many people spend years trying to reach. https://youtu.be/9WozTLJFHVE And somewhere along the way, he found himself confronting a surprisingly ordinary question: Is this it? I suspect you don’t have to be a rock star to recognize that feeling. When the Thing You Wanted Becomes Normal One of the stranger things about success is how quickly extraordinary things can become ordinary. The first time people cheer for you, promote you, publish you, hire you, recognize you or pay attention to something you’ve created, it can feel enormous. Then it becomes Tuesday. Jake described a version of that happening on tour. The excitement of playing for a crowd eventually becomes familiar, and suddenly you’re looking toward the next show, the next opportunity, the next level. The thing that once represented success becomes the baseline for whatever you’re chasing next. Jake used two words that captured it rather neatly: “never enough.” That interested me because we usually talk about success as though reaching it answers something. Jake’s story suggests that sometimes reaching it raises a whole new set of questions. Red Rocks makes that contradiction almost absurdly visible. There Jake was, inside one of those career moments that looks spectacular from the outside. His father was there to see it. Thousands of people were waiting. He was literally walking past evidence of musical history on his way to becoming a tiny part of that history himself. And at the very same time, he understood how temporary the whole thing might be. That is the backstage view we rarely get. Most of us encounter other people’s careers through the finished version. We see the stage, the announcement, the launch, the audience, the promotion, the photograph. We don’t see the exhaustion, uncertainty, strained relationships, long stretches of waiting or the slightly disorienting realization that achieving something doesn’t necessarily feel the way you expected it to feel. Social media has probably made that gap even more familiar. We’re surrounded by everyone’s metaphorical Red Rocks moments without access to the hallway underneath the stage. Jake happened to have an actual hallway. The Culture Becomes Part of the Scenery There was another part of Jake’s story that made the backstage idea even more interesting to me. Alcohol was around. Of course it was. It’s rock and roll. That sentence alone tells us something. There are environments where certain behaviors become so expected that we barely register them anymore. Alcohol and musicians. Champagne and celebrations. Cocktails and networking. Wine and dinner. Beer and sports. Nobody has to stand at the door and announce, “This is the culture.” It’s simply the scenery. And when something becomes scenery, it gets harder to ask whether it’s doing what we assume it’s doing. Jake’s perspective on alcohol has changed since making his own sober choice, and that has allowed him to look back at parts of the music industry differently. One of those assumptions is especially interesting because it reaches far beyond drinking: the mythology of the tortured artist. We’ve created a remarkably durable cultural picture of creativity and excess living together. The brilliant musician, writer or artist is chaotic, troubled, unpredictable and probably has a drink nearby. Somehow the mess becomes evidence of the genius. Jake’s experience complicates that picture. He didn’t find alcohol made the difficult work of creating more compelling. Over time, his experience was closer to the opposite. The desire to chase the lyric, the riff or the idea could lose out to something offering a much easier reward. That makes me wonder how many things we attribute to a culture simply because the two have been standing beside each other for a very long time. Maybe some of what we call rock-and-roll culture is just habit. And rock and roll certainly isn’t alone. Seeing the Room Differently Jake now works in another environment where alcohol frequently becomes part of the scenery: professional events. Recently, he found himself observing a gathering from a different perspective because he wasn’t drinking. The event was supposed to create networking and connection, but alcohol had become one of the primary activities. As the evening progressed, Jake began noticing the disconnect between what the event was supposedly designed to accomplish and what was actually happening in the room. That caught my attention because it brings his backstage experience into an entirely different setting. On paper, the event has one purpose. Inside the room, the experience can become something else. That’s exactly the kind of thing we’re curious about at Sober Life Rocks. We’re not particularly interested in arguing that nobody should serve alcohol at professional events. Adults can decide what they want in their cups. I’m much more interested in the assumption that putting alcohol into a room somehow creates connection. Those aren’t the same thing. If the purpose of a gathering is networking, what actually helps strangers become comfortable enough to talk? If the purpose is relationship-building, what makes people remember one another the next morning? If the purpose is belonging, what creates a room where someone drinking a cocktail, someone drinking an alcohol-free beer and someone drinking sparkling water can all have essentially the same experience? Those questions get much more interesting once alcohol stops being treated as the activity itself. And that brings me back to Jake walking beneath Red Rocks. There is the thing we’re looking at, and then there is the culture surrounding it. Sometimes we confuse the two. The cheering crowd isn’t necessarily the same thing as fulfillment. Chaos isn’t necessarily the source of creativity. Alcohol isn’t necessarily the source of connection. Those associations can become so familiar that separating them feels strange. Until something changes your vantage point. Jake’s sober choice has given him one of those different vantage points, but what makes his story interesting to me isn’t simply that he stopped drinking. It’s what he can see now that he couldn’t see in quite the same way before. The rock star mythology looks different. Creativity looks different. Professional gatherings look different. Even success looks different. And there is something useful in that whether you drink or not. Most of us are standing inside cultures we didn’t personally design. We inherit ideas about what successful people do, how creative people behave, how professionals network, how adults celebrate and what belonging is supposed to look like. Eventually those ideas become the hallway we’re walking through without noticing what’s hanging on the walls. Every once in a while, someone gets far enough backstage to look around. Jake did. And there is considerably more to his view than I’ve given you here. In the full Sober Life Rocks conversation, Jake talks about life inside the music industry, creativity, losing and rediscovering his relationship with music, making a sober choice, and what he’s noticing now in the rooms where he works and connects. It’s worth hearing him tell those stories himself. Stay Connected with Jake: Instagram: @jakejonesofficial The post The Truth About Rock Stars, Alcohol & Creativity: Jake Jones on Life Behind the Music first appeared on Sober Life Rocks.

  6. Sep 24

    Life After Sobriety: What If Success Still Doesn’t Make You Feel Like You’re Enough?

    When I sat down to talk with Todd Crandell, founder of Racing for Recovery, for the Sober Life Rocks podcast, I knew his story included more than three decades of sobriety, recovery from addiction, several books and more than 130 Ironman races. I expected we would talk about resilience, recovery and the kind of determination it takes to rebuild a life after addiction. We did talk about those things, but somewhere along the way I became much less interested in all the finish lines Todd had crossed and much more interested in what he had been chasing through all of them. Early in our conversation, Todd described a period in his life by saying that he had everything, but inside he had nothing. That sentence immediately took me back to my own experience in treatment, because one of the things that made it so difficult for me to understand why I was there was that I still had so much evidence that I was okay. I had a job. I was raising my children and involved in their lives. I was functioning. I could point to all sorts of things that seemed to prove that whatever my problems were, they couldn’t possibly be that bad. Then, several weeks into treatment, a man came in to share his story. He didn’t sound like the stories I thought I was supposed to identify with. He still had his job, his home, his wife and his children, and yet he talked about this enormous emptiness inside. https://youtu.be/OYQdPOsqC6w I remember leaning in. For the first time, I recognized myself in someone else’s story, and I began to understand that perhaps I had been using the wrong evidence to determine whether I was okay. I was looking at everything I had managed to hold together on the outside without really understanding what was happening inside me. That was part of what I heard in Todd’s story too, although his life and mine are very different. Todd lost his mother to suicide when he was only three years old. There was no way a child that young could understand a loss like that, but not having language for a wound doesn’t mean the wound isn’t there. As Todd grew older, alcohol and drugs eventually became part of the way he lived with what was happening inside him, and recovery became the way he began to build a different life. What I found particularly interesting, though, was that getting sober didn’t magically resolve the deeper question. Todd went on to build a life most people would consider extraordinary. He created Racing for Recovery and devoted himself to helping other people. He wrote books. He became an athlete capable of completing something I can’t imagine doing once, much less more than 130 times. From the outside, there was no shortage of evidence that Todd Crandell was disciplined, successful, valuable and worthy. And yet our conversation kept returning to what happens when you spend your life looking outside yourself for proof of something you don’t quite believe inside. I know something about that too. For much of my life, I became very good at being the person I thought a particular situation required. I could be capable, agreeable, certain and dependable. I could read a room and figure out which parts of myself were useful there. What I wasn’t nearly as good at was knowing what I actually felt. There was a time when I literally kept an emotion wheel on my refrigerator because someone could ask me how I was feeling and I genuinely didn’t know how to answer. Frustrated was usually available to me. It took me a while to learn that there were often other emotions underneath it, including fear. Fear was much harder for me to admit because it didn’t fit particularly well with the person I had learned to be. I was supposed to know what I was doing. I was supposed to have things handled. As Todd and I talked, I began thinking about how easy it is to mistake being highly functional for being whole. We can become incredibly accomplished while still carrying around a belief that perhaps the next accomplishment will finally settle the question of whether we are enough. That doesn’t make accomplishment unhealthy. Todd genuinely loves athletics. Sports, music and health were some of the things that helped reconnect him with parts of himself that existed before addiction took over. Over time, education, spirituality, service and his work through Racing for Recovery became part of that life too. But there is a difference between doing something because it makes your life bigger and doing it because you need it to make you feel bigger. I think that difference became especially interesting when Todd talked about his recent knee surgery. He had to cancel several races and step away, at least temporarily, from something that had become a very visible part of who he was. I wondered what that would feel like for someone who had completed more than 130 Ironmans. What I heard wasn’t panic about getting back to the next starting line. Todd talked about healing. He talked about his family, his work, his writing and the other parts of his life that deserved his attention. I found myself thinking that perhaps being okay with not doing another Ironman right now says as much about Todd’s recovery as finishing 130 of them ever could. Because at some point, all of us lose access to identities we thought were permanent. Bodies change. Careers end. Children grow up. Relationships change. The thing we were known for may no longer be the thing we do. If our sense of worth has become completely attached to one of those identities, losing it can feel a lot like losing ourselves. Todd’s story made me think that one of the longer and less talked-about parts of recovery may be discovering that you can let an identity change without your value changing with it. That’s a very different challenge from simply not drinking. In early sobriety, not drinking really was enough for me. I remember being given a ten-minute token and being told that if forever felt impossible, I only had to get through the next ten minutes. There were times when I watched the clock, turned that token over and started another ten. Eventually, though, you accumulate enough ten-minute stretches that you’re no longer simply trying to get through the day. You have a life in front of you, and then the questions become much more interesting. What do I actually want? What do I care about? Who am I when I’m not organizing my life around alcohol? And perhaps most difficult of all, can I believe that who I am is enough even when I’m not accomplishing anything particularly impressive? That last question isn’t really about sobriety at all. I think it’s one of the reasons this conversation with Todd has stayed with me. Most of us are performing in some way long before we ever walk into a professional networking event or a cocktail reception. We learn which versions of ourselves receive approval and which ones make other people uncomfortable. We learn to be successful, funny, agreeable, strong, productive or easygoing. And then we enter spaces where there are even more signals about what we’re supposed to do in order to fit in. Sometimes one of those signals is a drink in our hand. Todd and I talked about the role alcohol plays in gatherings, and it made me think about how often we confuse the rituals surrounding connection with connection itself. Alcohol can make socializing easier for some people, and I’m not interested in taking that choice away from them. But I am very interested in why someone who doesn’t want to drink can still feel as though declining one requires an explanation. I spent more than eighteen years hiding my own sobriety in part because I didn’t want people to see me differently. I had already spent a lifetime becoming good at figuring out how to belong, so it makes sense to me now that I would try to manage that part of myself too. What feels different today is that I’m much less interested in belonging that requires that kind of performance. And perhaps that is where Todd’s story and the work we’re doing at Sober Life Rocks intersect for me. We talk a lot about sober choices, but increasingly I think we’re talking about something underneath them. We’re talking about what it takes for people to walk into a room as they actually are and believe there is a place for them there. Not because they accomplished enough to earn it. Not because they have the right title. Not because they’re entertaining enough or confident enough. And certainly not because they’re holding the same thing in their glass as everyone else. Todd has crossed more finish lines than most of us could count, and I don’t want to diminish what those accomplishments mean to him. But after listening to his story, I don’t think another finish line is the most interesting place he’s headed. I think the more interesting journey is learning that there may be nothing left to prove. And for those of us who have spent a lifetime believing that if we could just accomplish enough, perform well enough or become enough, we might finally feel worthy of the life we already have, that’s a pretty powerful idea. You can hear my full conversation with Todd Crandell on the Sober Life Rocks podcast, where we talk about addiction, long-term sobriety, life after recovery, the childhood loss that shaped him, Racing for Recovery, more than 130 Ironman races, identity, self-worth and what it means to keep growing long after getting sober is no longer the hardest part of the journey. Stay Connected to Todd: https://www.facebook.com/soberultraman/ www.toddcrandell.com www.racingforrecovery.org https://www.instagram.com/soberultraman/  https://www.linkedin.com/in/todd-crandell-6b89132/ The post Life After Sobriety: What If Success Still Doesn’t Make You Feel Like You’re Enough? first appeared

  7. Sep 17

    What If Alcohol Isn’t Ruining Your Life—But Limiting Your Leadership?

    I’ve been thinking lately about how we decide whether something in our lives is a problem. Usually, we look for evidence. Is it hurting my relationships? Is it affecting my work? Is it creating consequences I can no longer ignore? And when the answer to those questions is no, it’s pretty easy to conclude that everything must be fine. But during my recent conversation with Morris Mugo on the Sober Life Rocks podcast, I found myself thinking about a very different question: What if something isn’t ruining your life, but it’s still keeping you from fully showing up for it? Morris is a registered dental hygienist, entrepreneur and founder of Safari and Smiles, an organization that brings dental and other healthcare professionals to communities in Africa while also giving participants an opportunity to experience the country, its people and its culture. He grew up in the small village of Chuka, Kenya, eventually moved to the United States, built a career in dentistry and started a young family. https://youtu.be/fXmMlBJ6jME And Morris was doing well. He wasn’t missing work because of alcohol. His career wasn’t in trouble. He worked hard all week, and when Friday came, drinking was part of how he relaxed and shifted into the weekend. A beer, some wine, time with friends. It was all pretty normal. In fact, Morris described himself as functional. But then he added something that changed the way I heard the rest of his story: he knew he wasn’t performing at his highest potential. That became particularly clear at a professional dental conference in New Orleans. Morris had spent the previous night drinking and socializing, and the next day he found himself sitting in a lecture hall listening to people he admired and wanted to know. These weren’t just interesting speakers or potential professional contacts. Morris had a much larger mission he was trying to build, and some of the people in that room had the relationships, knowledge and resources that could potentially help him bring dental care to more communities in Africa. He had gotten himself into exactly the room he needed to be in. And he was too foggy and tired to take full advantage of it. That realization followed him onto the flight home. What struck me about the story was that nothing terrible had happened. Morris hadn’t embarrassed himself or lost a job. There wasn’t some dramatic consequence that forced him to reevaluate his drinking. He simply recognized that an opportunity he cared deeply about had been sitting right in front of him, and he hadn’t been fully available for it. I wonder how often we count the cost of alcohol—or any habit, really—only by looking at what went wrong. We notice the hangover or the money spent or the argument from the night before. When the consequences become serious enough, of course we notice those too. But how do you measure the conversation you didn’t have? The person you didn’t meet? The idea you weren’t sharp enough to pursue? The Saturday morning you lost? The opportunity you were technically present for but not really able to seize? For Morris, those questions mattered because his ambitions weren’t only about himself. When I asked him what had changed since he stopped drinking, I expected him to talk about his personal life. Instead, he immediately talked about leadership. He told me sobriety had “amplified” his leadership, and the way he explained it had very little to do with titles, management strategies or any of the things we usually associate with becoming a better leader. It was about the people counting on him. Safari and Smiles grew out of something Morris had carried with him since his university days in Kenya, when he would volunteer at a children’s orphanage even though he had very little himself. Years later, he found a way to combine that instinct for service with his professional background in dentistry. Today, his work involves coordinating people across continents, bringing healthcare professionals into communities that need their skills and making sure the people on both sides of that relationship can trust him to do what he says he will do. Suddenly, clarity takes on a different meaning. If a team in Kenya needs him, he wants to be available. If something changes, he needs to solve it. If people have traveled across the world because they trust him to lead them, he has a responsibility to be present for that. And if a community is counting on Safari and Smiles to follow through on a promise, his ability to think clearly and execute well affects far more people than Morris himself. He described clear leadership to me as being able to show up every day, solve problems and make decisions he won’t have to second-guess the next morning. I loved the simplicity of that. We spend so much time talking about leadership as something we do in front of other people, but Morris made me think about how much of leadership actually begins when nobody is watching. The choices we make the night before affect the person who shows up the next morning. Our private habits come with us into the meeting, the conversation, the decision and the opportunity. And, of course, this isn’t an argument that everyone needs to stop drinking in order to be a good leader. Plenty of people have a perfectly comfortable relationship with alcohol. What interests me is the larger question Morris’s story raises: Are there things we continue doing simply because they’re normal, without ever stopping to ask whether they support the life we’re trying to build? That question feels especially relevant in our professional culture because alcohol is woven into so many of the places where careers and relationships are built. We drink at conferences. We meet clients for drinks. We toast accomplishments. Happy hour becomes networking time. None of that necessarily means there’s anything wrong with drinking. But it does mean that alcohol is often treated as part of the experience rather than as one choice within it. And that brings me to another part of Morris’s story that felt very familiar. When he first stopped drinking, he wasn’t completely comfortable letting people know. At parties and professional events, he would sometimes carry a glass of water in a way that made it look as though he were drinking. I knew exactly what he meant. For more than eighteen years, I kept my own sobriety largely private. I knew the club soda and lime trick. I knew how to avoid the question and how to look like I was participating without actually drinking. For both of us, there was a period when making the choice that was right for us somehow came with the additional burden of making sure nobody else noticed. Eventually Morris discovered something he hadn’t known existed: an entire community of people openly making sober choices. He saw people who were alcohol-free and successful and happy and completely comfortable being themselves, and it helped him realize he didn’t need to hide. That may seem like a small part of his story, but I don’t think it is. What does it say about the cultures we’ve created when someone can make a decision that allows them to be a better father, a clearer leader and more present in their work—and still worry that the decision itself might make them less accepted in the room? That question gets very close to the reason Sober Life Rocks exists. We’re not trying to convince everyone to stop drinking. We’re interested in what happens when people have real choices about drinking and still have equal access to connection, opportunity and belonging. Because if someone feels they need to hold a fake drink at a professional event just to avoid explaining themselves, we haven’t really created that yet. Morris’s story also made me reconsider the way we talk about what happens after someone gets sober. We tend to focus on what they stopped doing. Morris stopped drinking. But that’s not really the most interesting part of what happened. Look at what he became more available to do. He became more available to his children. More available to his profession. More available to the people he wanted to meet. More available to the mission he had been carrying since he was a young man in Kenya. And ultimately, more available to the communities whose lives could be changed by the work he was building. That’s a very different way to think about a personal choice. Maybe the question isn’t always whether something in our lives is bad enough that we need to give it up. Maybe sometimes the more useful question is whether it’s getting in the way of something we care about more. Morris didn’t need his life to fall apart before he asked that question. His life was already pretty good. He just began to see how much more fully he could inhabit it. You can hear my full conversation with Morris Mugo on the Sober Life Rocks podcast, where we talk about sobriety and leadership, professional drinking culture, his journey from Kenya to the United States, the mission behind Safari and Smiles, and what changed when he decided he no longer wanted alcohol taking anything away from the work and people that mattered to him. And maybe Morris’s story leaves us with a question that has very little to do with whether we drink at all: What in my life have I accepted as normal that might quietly be getting in the way of something I care about more? That’s the kind of question we’re increasingly interested in at Sober Life Rocks, because creating a culture of real choice isn’t about deciding what should be in everyone’s cup. It’s about creating workplaces, gatherings and communities where people are free to make the choices that allow them to show up fully—and still know they belong. Stay Connected to Morris:LinkedIn: https://ww

  8. Sep 10

    Do you have to have a drinking problem to decide that alcohol isn’t working for you anymore?

    Kate Bee on Knowing When Alcohol Isn’t Working for You Do you have to have a drinking problem to decide that alcohol isn’t working for you anymore? That question kept coming up for me during my recent conversation with Kate Bee, founder of The Sober School, because I think it’s one of the things that keeps so many people from ever really examining their relationship with alcohol. We’ve been conditioned to think there are essentially two groups of people: those who can drink “normally” and those who have a serious alcohol problem. If you’re working, raising a family, paying your bills and generally functioning, it’s pretty easy to look around and decide you must be fine. But what if “fine” isn’t really the point? Kate spent years in what is often called gray area drinking, that enormous space between severe alcohol dependence and a relationship with alcohol that feels completely comfortable and uncomplicated. She was a successful BBC journalist. She had worked hard to build the career she wanted, and from the outside there was nothing about her life that fit the stereotype she had in her head of someone with an alcohol problem. Alcohol was also woven into the culture around her. There were drinks after work, celebrations, networking and the familiar “work hard, play hard” rhythm that is so common in professional life. Other people were drinking too, and there were always people whose drinking looked worse than hers. All of that made it remarkably easy to conclude that whatever was going on, it couldn’t really be a problem. I understand that thinking because I did some version of it myself. For years, I had perfectly reasonable explanations for my drinking. I was working too much. I was raising children. I was dealing with difficult circumstances. Life was complicated, and alcohol did what I needed it to do for a while: it quieted the noise. That’s something I think we sometimes miss when we talk about drinking—or really any coping mechanism. People don’t generally develop ways of coping because they’re foolish. We find things that work. The problem is that something can help us through one chapter of our lives and quietly stop serving us in the next. https://youtu.be/MB8DaAkwLpU The Space Between “Normal” and Rock Bottom One of the things I found so interesting about Kate’s story was that she once believed you were either a “normal drinker” or a “raging alcoholic.” There wasn’t much room in her thinking for anything in between. And because she clearly wasn’t the latter, she assumed she must be the former. That’s where the idea of gray area drinking can be so helpful. It gives language to an experience that doesn’t necessarily include a dramatic rock bottom. Someone can have a successful career, loving relationships and a life that looks completely normal from the outside while still wondering why alcohol is taking up more mental or emotional space than they want it to. Maybe they regularly drink more than they intended. Maybe they find themselves using alcohol to cope with stress, loneliness or anxiety. Maybe they keep taking breaks and then returning to the same patterns. Or perhaps there isn’t anything obviously “wrong” at all. They simply have a growing sense that life might feel better without it. Kate talked about drinking as a way of escaping loneliness and feelings of inadequacy, but eventually the escape began feeding the very feelings she was trying not to experience. Drinking alone made her lonelier. Feeling ashamed of her drinking made her feel worse about herself. The thing that had once made life easier was gradually making her world smaller. That’s where I think the question needs to change. Instead of looking around for evidence that things are bad enough to justify making a change, what if we simply asked ourselves, “Is this working for me anymore?” There’s something incredibly freeing about that question because it doesn’t require a crisis. It doesn’t require a diagnosis, a label or permission from anyone else. And it certainly doesn’t require us to prove that we’re suffering enough. What Happens When You Stop Asking Whether It’s “Bad Enough”? This is one reason I find the growing sober-curious movement so interesting. More people are examining their relationship with alcohol before their lives fall apart. They aren’t necessarily identifying as alcoholics or even deciding they’ll never drink again. They’re simply becoming curious about whether alcohol is adding something to their lives or taking something away. That curiosity changed things for Kate. It changed things for me too. One of the most surprising things I remember about getting sober was discovering that my external circumstances hadn’t magically changed. Work was still demanding. My children still needed me. Money was still money, and difficult people were still difficult. Sobriety didn’t remove the problems; it removed the illusion that alcohol was my only way of handling them. Suddenly, I had to learn things I probably should have learned much earlier in life: how to set boundaries, how to tolerate discomfort, how to say no, how to rest and how to ask for help. In other words, I began discovering that I had choices. Kate described something very similar. Once alcohol was gone, she began to realize she had choices she hadn’t really considered before. She could change her work schedule. She could reconsider relationships. She could decide how much access difficult people had to her. Eventually, she could even admit that she no longer loved the journalism career she had spent years building. I found that part of her story particularly powerful. She had wanted to be a journalist since she was young and had moved around the country chasing jobs and promotions. On paper, she had created exactly the career she was supposed to want. But once the alcohol was gone and some of the noise had quieted, she could finally hear herself asking whether she still wanted it. Maybe that’s one of the more interesting things about changing any long-standing behavior. We don’t necessarily become different people. Sometimes we simply become more able to hear the person who was there all along. And Then There’s the Way We Connect This is where my conversation with Kate moved into territory that has become increasingly important to me and to the work we’re doing at Sober Life Rocks. Alcohol isn’t only an individual choice. It has become part of our social infrastructure. We gather around it, celebrate with it, network over it and use it to signal that the workday is over or the party has begun. In many places, alcohol has become a kind of currency of connection. That creates an interesting challenge when someone decides not to participate. If so many of our rituals for connecting have been built around drinking, what replaces it? Kate told me a story from the tenth anniversary celebration of The Sober School that I loved. Women traveled from around the world to attend, and she was particularly concerned about those arriving alone. She wondered whether, without alcohol acting as the familiar social lubricant, people would know how to connect, so she planned activities to help everyone get comfortable. It turned out they barely needed them. People talked and talked and talked. There’s something almost comical about how much we’ve convinced ourselves that people need alcohol to loosen up and connect when, given the right environment, human beings are actually pretty good at it. That story made me think differently about hospitality. Perhaps the first question when we’re planning a conference, workplace gathering, wedding or even dinner with friends shouldn’t be, “What are we going to serve?” Maybe it should be, “How are we going to help people belong?” How do we welcome the person who arrives alone? How do we make those first few minutes less awkward? How do we help strangers find something meaningful to talk about? And how do we create a room where someone who drinks, someone who doesn’t, someone in recovery and someone who is simply questioning their relationship with alcohol can all participate without having to explain themselves? Those are the questions behind much of our work at Sober Life Rocks and AMPLIFY Sober Choices. We aren’t interested in creating a world where everyone makes the same choice about alcohol. We’re interested in creating one where alcohol isn’t the price of admission to connection. Because belonging doesn’t require everyone to make the same choice. It requires enough room for people to make different ones. Maybe Nothing Has to Be Terribly Wrong Toward the end of our conversation, Kate described stopping drinking as the “upgrade” to her life that she didn’t know she needed. I loved that description because sobriety is so often framed in terms of deprivation: giving something up, missing out, becoming the boring one, saying goodbye to fun. Kate discovered almost the opposite. Alcohol-free living created room for a version of her life she couldn’t quite see while she was drinking. I think that’s why her story matters to people who may never identify with the traditional recovery narrative. You don’t need a dramatic rock bottom to become curious about something in your life. You don’t have to wait until the consequences outweigh the benefits so dramatically that you have no other choice. Sometimes nothing is terribly wrong. Sometimes something just doesn’t feel right anymore. And maybe, instead of asking whether our drinking is bad enough to justify changing it, we could ask a much more interesting question: What might become possible if I made a different choice? That’s what Kate and I explore in our full conver

Ratings & Reviews

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out of 5
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About

The Sober Life Rocks Podcast is about more than quitting alcohol. It’s about changing the way we connect. Every week, host Margy Schaller sits down with leaders, entrepreneurs, physicians, psychologists, authors, hospitality innovators, event professionals, sober coaches, and everyday changemakers who are challenging the idea that alcohol is the price of belonging. Together, they explore alcohol-free living, sober leadership, inclusive events, workplace culture, hospitality, wellness, recovery, and authentic human connection—proving that when connection comes first, everyone belongs.

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