BE THAT LAWYER

Steve Fretzin
  • 4.9 (52)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED SEMIWEEKLY

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

  1. Ted DeBettencourt: The Human Advantage in Legal Intake

    10H AGO

    Ted DeBettencourt: The Human Advantage in Legal Intake

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ted DeBettencourt discuss: Making prospects feel heard before they hireFixing intake as the real growth leverOptimizing website conversion channelsAdopting a builder’s mindset in business development  Key Takeaways: Emotional needs matter as much as legal expertise when someone is choosing a lawyer. If prospects do not feel listened to or cared for, they continue shopping. Human connection is often the deciding factor in a crowded legal marketplace.Many firms invest heavily in marketing but lose revenue at the intake stage. Speed of response determines success, as delays of even 24 hours can cost the case. Clear criteria for qualified leads protect attorney time and improve conversion rates.Law firm websites must make contact effortless through visible phone numbers, live chat, text, and forms. Human-powered chat and SMS are increasingly driving higher engagement and signed cases. Firms that reduce friction in communication dramatically improve conversion outcomes.Opportunities rarely arrive on their own, even with strong credentials. Growth begins when professionals stop waiting and start creating value. Taking initiative and solving real problems can open entirely new career paths.  "Running a law firm 101: don’t answer your own phone, because you’re never getting any work done." — Ted DeBettencourt   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Ted DeBettencourt: Ted DeBettencourt is the founder and CEO of Juvo Leads, a human-powered intake and chat service helping law firms convert more website visitors into signed clients. With a JD/MBA background, Ted shifted from pursuing traditional legal roles to building solutions that improve law firm marketing and intake performance. He focuses on speed, connection, and ensuring prospects feel heard — proving that human engagement remains a powerful differentiator in a digital world.   Connect with Ted DeBettencourt:  Website: https://juvoleads.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

    32 min
  2. Colleen Breems: Why Niching Down Creates More Opportunity

    4D AGO

    Colleen Breems: Why Niching Down Creates More Opportunity

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Breems discuss: Letting a niche form over timeEarning trust through depth and preparationUsing competence as the foundation of marketingPositioning intentionally with the right relationships  Key Takeaways: Niching down is a gradual process shaped by consistency, passion, and earned trust. Being focused does not require rejecting all other work, only clarifying what you are known for. A clear niche strengthens credibility and often opens doors to adjacent opportunities.Strong niches are built by mastering statutes, procedures, and expectations within a specific role. Every case should be treated as reputation-defining, regardless of size or visibility. Reliability, preparedness, and professionalism compound into long-term trust.Visibility is effective only when it reflects genuine skill and consistent performance. Writing, speaking, and sharing expertise help decision makers remember you for a specific strength. Marketing should amplify substance, not replace it.Focused networking outperforms broad, unfocused relationship building. Clear positioning makes it easier for others to understand, remember, and refer to you. Niching is strongest when aligned with real demand and access to decision makers.  "Don’t wait until you’re ready… Letting fear or doubt stop you from going after a niche is really the biggest roadblock." —  Colleen Breems   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Colleen Breems: Colleen M. Breems is a partner practicing exclusively in matrimonial and family law. She represents clients in divorce, parentage, post-decree matters, prenuptial and postnuptial agreements, and related family law issues, with a focus on practical, client-centered solutions. In addition to representing adults, Colleen is frequently appointed by Cook County judges to serve as a Child’s Representative or Guardian ad Litem, advocating for the best interests of children in family law cases. She is also a trained mediator and parent coordinator. Colleen is deeply committed to public service, dedicating significant time to pro bono work through Chicago Volunteer Legal Services and serving as Co-Vice President of the Advocacy Council for the Junior League of Chicago.   Connect with Colleen Breems:   Website: https://beermannlaw.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleen-breems-a8a4631b/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    31 min
  3. Tom Conner: Reputation Is the Business

    FEB 9

    Tom Conner: Reputation Is the Business

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tom Conner discuss: Treating note-taking as professional insuranceUsing discomfort to set daily prioritiesChoosing relationships as the foundation of business developmentLetting character determine long-term success  Key Takeaways: Relying on memory is a gamble, especially when ideas, tasks, and details arrive constantly. Writing everything down ensures nothing important slips through the cracks. The tool matters less than the habit of capturing thoughts before they disappear.Starting with the task you least want to do lowers anxiety for the rest of the day. Avoidance only prolongs stress, whether with paperwork or difficult phone calls. Momentum is built by confronting discomfort early, not managing it away.Referrals grow out of trust earned through service, generosity, and long-term presence. Bar involvement and community leadership create credibility that no marketing tactic can replace. Strong reputations are built quietly and often pay dividends years later.Integrity functions as a filter for clients, colleagues, and career decisions. Fairness and honesty build trust even with opponents and judges. The same clarity guides how to retire, whom to trust, and how to leave a legacy.  "Your reputation is everything, and it's hard to build, and it's easy to destroy." — Tom Conner   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Tom Conner: Tom Conner is a fourth-generation Texan and veteran trial lawyer whose life and career span more than four decades of courtroom practice. Raised in a small West Texas farming community, he brought grit and resilience from his early years into a distinguished legal career in Houston, where he handled high-stakes civil and family law cases and earned a reputation for integrity and advocacy. His memoir, From Cotton Fields to Courtrooms, blends personal history with reflections on major trials, life lessons, and the discipline that shaped his path from rural beginnings to respected attorney and storyteller.   Connect with Tom Conner:   Website: https://tomconnerbooks.com/ , https://www.lawcl.com/lawyers/thomas-r-conner/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    32 min
  4. Jennifer Gillman: How to Become a Happy Rainmaker Early

    FEB 6

    Jennifer Gillman: How to Become a Happy Rainmaker Early

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jennifer Gillman discuss: Building rainmaking as a sustainable, early-career practiceShifting mindset to overcome fear and unlock visibilityUsing small, consistent actions to compound business developmentGaining autonomy by moving from service partner to rainmaker  Key Takeaways: Becoming a happy rainmaker is not a late-career scramble but a long game that should begin as early as law school or the first years of practice. By consistently maintaining relationships with classmates and peers, lawyers build familiarity and trust over time. This approach replaces transactional job-seeking with organic, referral-based growth.A core barrier to business development is the fear of judgment, captured by the reminder that what other people think of you is none of your business. This mindset shift frees lawyers to show up on LinkedIn, speak publicly, and introduce themselves without self-consciousness. Confidence grows through action rather than perfection.Rainmaking does not require massive time blocks but thrives on small, intentional habits repeated consistently. Even 15 to 20 minutes a week spent nurturing relationships or learning LinkedIn and AI tools can create long-term leverage. Like compound interest, steady effort builds momentum and results.Rainmakers gain control over clients, schedules, and priorities, while service partners remain dependent on others for work and timing. Building a book of business early reframes BD as an investment in future autonomy rather than an added burden. This shift creates greater flexibility and career control.  "If you can develop one dollar of business, you can develop a million dollars or ten million." —  Jennifer Gillman   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Jennifer Gillman: Jennifer Gillman is President and Founder of Gillman Strategic Group, a legal recruiting firm that helps law firm partners find the right fit so they can thrive and enjoy practicing law. A former lawyer herself, Jennifer spent 12 years in practice before becoming a recruiter, and she is known for her candidate-focused, confidential, and thoughtful approach to career matchmaking. She earned her J.D. from New York University School of Law and her undergraduate degree from Brandeis University.   Connect with Jennifer Gillman:   Website: https://gillmanstrategicgroup.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-gillman-law-firm-matchmaker/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    30 min
  5. Noel Bagwell: Designing Profitable Law Firms That Last

    FEB 2

    Noel Bagwell: Designing Profitable Law Firms That Last

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Bagwell discuss: Prioritize profit over revenueCultivating virtue and adaptability in leadershipRethinking traditional metricsBuilding resilience through self-awareness  Key Takeaways: Sustainable law firms focus on true profitability, not just top-line revenue, ensuring resources for reinvestment and owner compensation.Effective leaders build moral character, listen deeply, transform failure into feedback, and create psychologically safe environments while holding teams accountable.Billable hours are outdated; value-based, flat-fee, or subscription models paired with results-oriented KPIs align incentives with client outcomes and firm sustainability.Perseverance, reflection, and deliberate self-leadership are essential for navigating personal and professional challenges and for leading others effectively.  "Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." —  Noel Bagwell   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/ Lawyer.com: https://www.lawyer.com/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Noel Bagwell: Noel Bagwell is the founder of Counsel & Clarity™, where he helps leaders and organizations build resilient leadership, profitable legal relationships, and effective legal operations. His work focuses on supporting startups, growth-stage companies, and executives navigating complexity, change, and high-stakes decision-making. Through Leadership Resilience Coaching, Noel works with leaders recovering from personal or professional setbacks, helping them rebuild capacity, strengthen self-leadership, and lead with clarity under pressure. His coaching emphasizes resilience, reflection, and sustainable performance rather than short-term fixes. Noel also provides Legal Coaching and Services, guiding clients through complex legal challenges with a practical, business-aligned approach. He helps organizations better understand the legal landscape, make informed decisions, and create legal strategies that support long-term goals rather than reactive problem-solving. In his Legal Operations Coaching, Noel partners with legal teams to optimize processes, streamline workflows, and improve how legal functions deliver value. By aligning operations with business priorities, he enables legal departments to become more efficient, effective, and strategically integrated.   Connect with Noel Bagwell:   Website: https://counselandclarity.com/home-page LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbagwell3/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    34 min
  6. Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch: Why Most Law Firms Never Scale

    JAN 29

    Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch: Why Most Law Firms Never Scale

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Robert Armstrong, and Sandy Fisch discuss: Legal expertise without systems limits growthFocus outperforms expansion without infrastructureValue-based models outperform time-based billing in an AI-driven futureFuture-proof firms are systemized, collaborative, and diversified  Key Takeaways: Most firms are built by technicians who understand legal work but not business operations. Sustainable firms require deliberate work on systems, strategy, and management.Deep specialization strengthens results, clarity, and scale. Expanding practice areas too early dilutes effectiveness and increases operational drag.Hourly billing weakens as automation accelerates legal work. Flat-fee pricing combined with strong human relationships aligns better with efficiency and client outcomes.Recurring revenue, acquisition-ready structures, and trusted peer communities reduce dependence on individuals. Long-term resilience comes from systems, relationships, and adaptive business models.  "There's a difference between working on the business and working in the business." —  Sandy Fisch   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Robert Armstrong: Robert Armstrong is President of the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys and co-founder of Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm. A U.S. Navy veteran and summa cum laude graduate of UC San Diego, he earned his Juris Doctor from the University of San Diego in 1976. A recognized thought leader in estate planning, Robert has authored several books, including The E-Myth Attorney, and has been quoted in national publications such as the Wall Street Journal. He frequently appears on television as an estate planning expert. Robert lives in Knoxville, Tennessee, with his wife, Jennifer, and enjoys reading, daily workouts, and time outdoors with his family.   About Sandy Fisch: Sanford Fisch is a principal at Armstrong, Fisch & Tutoli, a leading San Diego estate planning firm recognized nationwide for excellence. He co-founded the American Academy of Estate Planning Attorneys to help attorneys and law firms improve their skills and practices. Known for expertise and enthusiasm, Sanford seeks more effective ways to serve clients, support fellow attorneys, and advance the practice of estate planning law across the United States.   Connect with Robert Armstrong & Sandy Fisch:   Website: https://www.aftattorneys.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    34 min
  7. Deirdre Nero: The Ceiling Every Solo Lawyer Hits

    JAN 26

    Deirdre Nero: The Ceiling Every Solo Lawyer Hits

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deirdre Nero discuss: Action can precede clarityGrowth requires delegation, not enduranceAuthenticity strengthens leadership and trustExpertise must be valued to be sustainable  Key Takeaways: Starting a firm without certainty can still create momentum and direction. Waiting for perfect readiness delays growth more than risk does.Handling every task personally creates a hard ceiling on scale and sustainability. Hiring support is the necessary step to move beyond survival mode.Hiding core aspects of identity fractures credibility and connection. Openness creates deeper trust, healing, and stronger professional relationships.Giving away high-level knowledge undermines both business viability and professional worth. Confident pricing is essential for long-term independence and freedom.  "I think honestly that was probably the biggest crime I committed in my firm… trying to do it all myself." —  Deirdre Nero   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Deirdre Nero: Deirdre D. Nero is the founder of NERO Immigration Law, which she established in 2009 after practicing for several years at large domestic and international law firms. She previously led the immigration practice of a major international firm’s Coral Gables office and has deep experience advising individuals and small to mid-sized companies. Her practice focuses on business and family immigration, including employment-based immigrant and nonimmigrant visas, PERM labor certifications, and naturalization. Deirdre represents clients nationwide and around the world, working closely with them to execute immigration strategies before U.S. immigration agencies. Fluent in Spanish and certified at the highest level by the Spanish government, Deirdre is a passionate advocate for immigration reform. She frequently lectures and writes on immigration topics and has lived, studied, and worked in Spain, where she completed legal internships and comparative law research.   Connect with Deirdre Nero:   Website: https://neroimmigration.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/deirdrenero/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/neroimmigration   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    35 min
  8. Noel Andrews: Why Delegation Is the Key to Growing a Firm

    JAN 22

    Noel Andrews: Why Delegation Is the Key to Growing a Firm

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Noel Andrews discuss: Prioritizing others to drive long-term successDelegation as a lever for higher-value workHiring and managing support effectivelyShifting from doing to thinking as a leader  Key Takeaways: Sustainable business growth comes from helping team members, clients, and referral partners achieve their goals first. Celebrate client milestones, develop your team, and make introductions without expecting immediate returns. Focusing outward builds trust, loyalty, and lasting relationships that compound over time.Lawyers often get stuck handling admin, marketing, and operations alongside legal tasks. Listing tasks to delegate frees you to focus on work only you can do and grow the firm strategically. Delegation transforms busywork into leverage and career impact.Start with clarity: define tasks first, then map them to a role, location, and level of support. Remote talent in regions like Eastern Europe or South Africa can provide high-quality work at a lower cost. Clear KPIs, meaningful projects, and trust are more effective than micromanaging hours.Resist the urge to control every detail; hire capable assistants to own outcomes. Delegating at a high level frees time for strategic thinking and future planning. Leaders must balance action with observation to maximize impact and firm growth.  "Every single time I’ve ever done the next stage for me, or the next step in really investing in supporting my team, particularly in their personal lives, the results are just huge." —  Noel Andrews "Profit is what happens when you get everything else right." — Yvon Chouinard, Founder of Patagonia   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Noel Andrews: Noel Andrews is the CEO of JobRack, a global recruitment company that helps entrepreneurs and business owners hire high-quality remote talent, primarily from Eastern Europe and South Africa. With a background in online business and operations, Noel specializes in building systems that allow founders to delegate effectively, scale sustainably, and reclaim time for higher-level thinking. Through JobRack, he has helped hundreds of companies move beyond founder overload by hiring experienced, proactive team members who can truly own outcomes. Noel is known for his practical, clarity-first approach to hiring, leadership, and remote team management, emphasizing trust, accountability, and long-term leverage over micromanagement.   Connect with Noel Andrews:   Website: https://jobrack.eu/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noelandrews/ Ashley Robinson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleyrobinsongcm/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    30 min
See All (579)

4.9
out of 5
52 Ratings

About

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

Information

  • Creator
    Steve Fretzin
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    579
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2020 Steve Fretzin
  • Show Website
    BE THAT LAWYER

You Might Also Like