BE THAT LAWYER

Steve Fretzin
  • 4.9 (52)
  • MARKETING
  • UPDATED SEMIWEEKLY

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

  1. Matthew Fornaro: Building a Solo Law Firm in the Age of AI

    1D AGO

    Matthew Fornaro: Building a Solo Law Firm in the Age of AI

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matthew Fornaro discuss: Making solo practice more accessible than everUsing AI as a force multiplier for small firmsPracticing ethical and intentional AI adoptionRethinking legal business models and skill sets  Key Takeaways: Starting a firm no longer requires a large office, full staff, or major upfront investment. A focused LinkedIn presence paired with a simple, low-cost website can be sufficient early on.Matthew relies on AI for email triage, document review, and marketing support across his practice. These tools increasingly replace costly vendors while delivering speed, consistency, and scale.Responsible lawyers review and verify AI outputs instead of submitting them unchecked. Those who ignore AI entirely or misuse it are falling behind or facing real professional consequences.AI-driven efficiency puts pressure on traditional billable-hour structures in Big Law and beyond. Matthew emphasizes that business education is as critical as legal skills for long-term success.  "In dealing with some of the attorneys I deal with who don't use AI or whatever, they're getting consistently outworked and beat by people who do use AI, particularly people who use AI correctly and responsibly." —  Matthew Fornaro   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Matthew Fornaro: Matthew Fornaro is a business law attorney serving South Florida since 2003. He began his career at two AmLaw 200 firms, focusing on civil litigation, before founding his own practice. His work includes complex commercial litigation, contract disputes, construction law, intellectual property, and business formation and documentation. A member of the Florida and District of Columbia Bars, Matthew also mentors new attorneys and entrepreneurs through the Kaufman Foundation’s FastTrac NewVenture Program and Florida State University’s Jim Moran Institute. As a small business owner himself, he is proud to support and represent businesses throughout his community.   Connect with Matthew Fornaro:  Website: https://fornarolegal.com/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fornarolegal/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewfornaro/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZn4sEROz6hErV5Fb5vvOtQ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fornaro_legal/ X: https://twitter.com/FornaroLegal Additional Resources: Jeremy Baker - https://operationpalmtree.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    31 min
  2. Wes Lungwitz: The New Rules of Law Firm Marketing

    5D AGO

    Wes Lungwitz: The New Rules of Law Firm Marketing

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Wes Lungwitz discuss: Adapting to change in legal marketingStrengthening the website as the foundationOptimizing for AI-driven discoveryEvaluating partners and acting proactively  Key Takeaways: Law firm growth now depends on adapting to AI, new search behavior, and shifting marketing dynamics. Firms that remain static risk losing visibility as discovery moves beyond traditional SEO.A law firm website must be fast, technically clean, accessible, and well-structured. Personalized practice-area content and visible social proof reinforce trust and conversion.Search is shifting toward AI assistants and answer engines that reward clarity and structure. Conversational content, deep practice pages, and schema markup increase AI visibility.Agencies must actively address AI visibility, schema strategy, and changing discovery behavior. Google Business Profiles remain essential for legitimacy and intent capture.  "You have to adapt in life and change and keep up with the times, and it's just so important in our industry and just life in general." —  Wes Lungwitz   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Wes Lungwitz: Wes Lungwitz is the co-founder and managing partner of Civille, a digital marketing and technology company focused exclusively on helping law firms grow. With a background in highly competitive, data-driven digital marketing, he brings modern website, SEO, and analytics strategies to an industry that has traditionally lagged behind other verticals. Wes regularly speaks and writes on the future of legal marketing, including AI-driven search and evolving discovery behavior.   Connect with Wes Lungwitz:   Website: https://getciville.com/   LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/wes-lungwitz-1b532432/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    30 min
  3. Alefiyah Lindo: Why Burnout Is a Signal and How to Realign for Better Results

    12/29/2025

    Alefiyah Lindo: Why Burnout Is a Signal and How to Realign for Better Results

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Alefiyah Lindo discuss: Planning the future by evaluating what actually workedSupporting happiness without trying to control itUsing energy as a diagnostic tool for alignmentTreating burnout as feedback and adjusting accordingly  Key Takeaways: Reviewing the past year reveals which habits, strategies, and commitments deserve to continue and which do not. Entering a new year without reflection leads to repeating default patterns rather than making intentional choices. Sustainable growth comes from consistency and long-term relationship building, not one-off efforts.You cannot create happiness for others, only support their ability to create it themselves. Taking responsibility for other people’s emotional outcomes leads to exhaustion and blurred boundaries. Healthy leadership and parenting require allowing others to experience discomfort and self-direction.Alignment exists when beliefs, words, actions, and emotions are consistent with one another. Chronic fatigue, burnout, and self-sabotage are indicators of misalignment rather than laziness or failure. Tracking what energizes and depletes you provides clearer guidance than what you think you “should” enjoy.Burnout signals a need to realign priorities, responsibilities, and expectations. Bringing subconscious patterns into conscious awareness is a prerequisite for lasting change. Different results require different actions, even when those actions challenge long-held assumptions.  "Energy work really is when what we believe, what we say, what we do, and what we feel are all on the same page. That’s what energy alignment is." —  Alefiyah Lindo   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Alefiyah Lindo: Alefiyah Lindo is a Mind-Body-Energy Intuitive and licensed psychotherapist with over 20 years of experience, integrating holistic, non-dual approaches to healing that address the mind, body, and energy system. Her work blends intuitive guidance with practices such as mindfulness, breathwork, EFT, and energy medicine, shaped by early Buddhist practice and trauma-informed training. Alefiyah holds degrees from Purdue University and the University of Illinois, is licensed in Illinois, and provides personalized care rooted in both extensive professional training and lived experience, guided by the principle of Namaste — honoring the light in each person she serves.   Connect with Alefiyah Lindo:    Website: https://www.alefiyahlindo.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alefiyahlindo/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alefiyah-lindo-6a158a83/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@alefiyahlindo9955   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    31 min
  4. Deborah Farone: Developing Clients, Confidence, and Career Control

    12/25/2025

    Deborah Farone: Developing Clients, Confidence, and Career Control

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deborah Farone discuss: Using business development as a path to influence and autonomyStarting relationship-building early in your careerAligning marketing with authenticity and personalityDeepening trust by focusing on long-term relationships  Key Takeaways: Business development gives women greater control over their careers, choices, and leadership opportunities. A strong book of business shifts power dynamics and opens doors that talent alone often cannot.Business development is most effective when it begins in law school, not at a partnership. Early relationships compound over time and prevent habits that isolate lawyers from future clients.The most effective business development reflects who you are, not generic networking scripts. Choosing methods that fit your interests builds consistency, credibility, and long-term momentum.Client loyalty grows from empathy, understanding, and sustained connection beyond transactions. Investing in existing relationships delivers greater impact than constantly chasing new clients.  "They say it's five times more expensive to get a brand new client than it is to grow an existing client. So it's a better use of your time." —  Deborah Farone   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Deborah Farone: Deborah Farone is a strategic advisor, author, and speaker specializing in business development and marketing for law firms. She is the founder of Farone Advisors, where she helps lawyers build strong client relationships and sustainable practices. Deborah previously served as Chief Marketing Officer at Cravath, Swaine & Moore and Debevoise & Plimpton, and is widely recognized as a pioneer in legal business development. She is the author of Best Practices in Law Firm Business Development and Marketing and a frequent lecturer at law schools and legal organizations worldwide.   Connect with Deborah Farone:   Website: https://deborahfarone.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    32 min
  5. Charlie Gaudet: Escape the Founder Trap and Scale Your Firm

    12/22/2025

    Charlie Gaudet: Escape the Founder Trap and Scale Your Firm

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Charlie Gaudet discuss: Moving beyond hard work toward sustainable growthEscaping the founder-centered business modelOutperforming talent using systemsProtecting time as the highest-leverage asset  Key Takeaways: Hard work eventually becomes a liability when it replaces strategy, systems, and recovery. Sustainable growth requires designing the business so it scales without destroying the founder’s health or capacity.Businesses stall when the founder becomes the bottleneck for decisions, delivery, and growth. Long-term scale only happens when systems and teams replace heroic individual effort.Top performers win not because they work harder, but because their systems reduce variation and create consistency. Documented, measurable processes turn small improvements into repeatable, compounding gains.Return on Time matters more than effort, activity, or hours worked. Delegation, automation, and pricing strategy free leaders to focus on high-impact thinking instead of constant execution.  "They have to look at ROT, which is return on time… Where are they spending the time, and how do they maximize their time?… Raise your rate… leverage AI… More and more attorneys are able to get more done in less time when they can leverage AI in the right way." —  Charlie Gaudet   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Charlie Gaudet: Charlie Gaudet is the author of “The Predictable Profits Playbook: The 7- and 8-Figure CEOs’ Guide to Generating Consistent and Sustainable Growth“ (voted #1 Book on Sales & Marketing by Indie Excellence) and host of The Beyond 7-Figures Podcast. The International Business Times called him “The Go-To Business Coach for 7- and 8-Figure Businesses” and perhaps the “busiest sales coach in the US.“ GritDaily said Gaudet is: “regarded in entrepreneurial circles as one of the top coaches for helping entrepreneurs surpass the seven and eight-figure mark.” Yahoo Finance referred to him as: “The CEO Whisperer.” CEO Weekly said he was one of the top 10 “Innovative CEOs to Follow.” And he’s listed at the top of several “Best Business Coach”  lists. He’s been an entrepreneur since the age of 4, created his first multi-million dollar business at 24, and has helped others generate millions with his strategies. He’s received numerous awards and recognition (including founding a company named as “One of the Best Seed Stage Companies” by Ernst & Young), received his Certificate of Leadership Development from The US Army War College and has his business advice featured around in the world – including Inc., Forbes, Salesforce, Success, Entrepreneur, and Fox Business – as well as on podcasts and radio. He was named one of American Genius’s Top 50 Industry Influencers. He trains in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (two gold medal finishes) and is a 3-time wrestling state champion. He lives in Florida with his beautiful wife, three adorable kid-preneurs, and one badass dog.   Connect with Charlie Gaudet:   Website: https://predictableprofits.com/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    35 min
  6. Colleen Joyce: Leading, Selling, And Scaling In A Changing Legal Market

    12/18/2025

    Colleen Joyce: Leading, Selling, And Scaling In A Changing Legal Market

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Colleen Joyce discuss: Failing fast while managing riskBuilding a competitive legal practice intentionallyTreating sales as listening and diagnosisLeading and adapting for the future of law  Key Takeaways: Test ideas quickly and learn from small, recoverable failures. Avoid high-stakes decisions that can jeopardize the entire business. Fast iteration builds resilience in a rapid attention and news cycle.Strong branding is essential in a crowded legal market. Lawyers must understand marketing and business, not just legal skills. Personal brand and visibility increasingly determine growth and opportunity.Effective sales begins with asking questions and listening deeply. Clients commit when they feel understood, not when they are pitched.  A clear diagnosis must come before proposing solutions or pricing.Know your strengths and hire to cover gaps. Transparency and honesty strengthen leadership and team trust. Investing in technology, efficiency, and learning is required to stay competitive.  "I know lawyers don't like to hear this, but they are salespeople, just like every other job." —  Colleen Joyce   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Colleen Joyce: Colleen Joyce is the Chief Executive Officer of Lawyer.com, the leading U.S. legal directory and lawyer-matching service that connects consumers with qualified local attorneys. She has spent over a decade building and scaling Lawyer.com’s offerings, from foundational directory services to expanded products, marketing education (including CLE courses), and industry events focused on lawyer growth and digital strategy. Joyce previously served as President and Senior Vice President of Lawyer Services, developing deep expertise in management, online legal marketing, and business development before becoming CEO in 2024. Under her leadership, Lawyer.com has experienced significant growth and expanded its role in helping lawyers with client acquisition, thought leadership, and industry engagement. Joyce also brings a background in marketing and publicity from earlier roles, including directing marketing and public relations at PopStar.com, and holds a Bachelor of Arts from the University of Illinois, graduating magna cum laude in liberal arts and sciences.   Connect with Colleen Joyce: Website: http://www.lawyer.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colleenjoyce/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    31 min
  7. Amy Wood: Lawyer Like An Athlete

    12/15/2025

    Amy Wood: Lawyer Like An Athlete

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Amy Wood discuss: Cultivating inner balanceTraining your career like an athleteBuilding the four pillars of successManaging energy and embracing growth  Key Takeaways: Focus on inner balance rather than chasing work–life balance. Intentionally manage your energy, mindset, and relationships to sustain long-term professional performance.Treat your career like elite athletic training by consistently prioritizing physical health, restorative sleep, and daily self-care as essential foundations for mental sharpness.Surround yourself with the four pillars of success: a genuinely supportive network, a solution-oriented mindset, deliberate self-care, and engaging, nourishing diversions that spark creativity.Protect and invest your energy wisely, design environments that actively inspire focus, and embrace mistakes as valuable opportunities for growth, reflection, and learning.  "When you're thinking about your energy, look at it like a battery that needs to be recharged." —  Amy Wood   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Amy Wood: Dr. Amy Wood is a licensed psychologist, certified executive coach, and award-winning author who has devoted her career to helping individuals and organizations articulate and arrive at new and more empowering versions of success. In particular, she is known for helping individuals and organizations to edit down overwhelm to their own customized productivity and happiness essentials. With a doctorate from Adler University and a prior career in communications, she inspires transformation with a unique blend of humor, directness, and psychological insight. Dr. Wood’s intention is always to live and work in ways that bring out the best in herself and others.   Connect with Amy Wood:   Website: https://amywoodpsyd.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amywoodpsyd/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    33 min
  8. Susan Filan: Finding Joy and Peace in a High-Pressure Career

    12/11/2025

    Susan Filan: Finding Joy and Peace in a High-Pressure Career

    In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Susan Filan discuss: Reclaiming life before life demands itAsking the questions that change everythingStepping off the professional hamster wheelChoosing authenticity over performance  Key Takeaways: Near-death experiences show how fragile, temporary, and precious life truly is. Fulfillment starts when we stop postponing purpose and intentionally live each day in alignment with what truly matters most.Fear often hides our deepest desires, but asking the right questions clearly reveals them. Imagining our future self at the end of life helps guide decisions toward what we genuinely want and value.Overwork often masks misalignment with our own integrity, health, and needs. Sustainable progress begins by recognizing limits, slowing down, and making intentional changes that honor both well-being and meaningful work.Long-term fulfillment cannot grow from roles we play to please others or meet external expectations. True joy and inner peace emerge when we live, work, and lead consistently in alignment with our authentic selves.  "I can't outsource my happiness. So if I'm not happy today with what I have, where I am... I'm not going to be happy then when I get it." —  Susan Filan   Check out my new show, Be That Lawyer Coaches Corner, and get the strategies I use with my clients to win more business and love your career again.   Ready to go from good to GOAT in your legal marketing game? Don’t miss PIMCON—where the brightest minds in professional services gather to share what really works. Lock in your spot now: https://www.pimcon.org/   Thank you to our Sponsor! Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/   Ready to grow your law practice without selling or chasing? Book your free 30-minute strategy session now—let's make this your breakout year: https://fretzin.com/   About Susan Filan: Susan is a former prosecutor and MSNBC Senior Legal Analyst turned transformational speaker and life strategist. With over 30 years in high-stakes arenas—from prosecuting cold-case murders to defending clients on death row and analyzing national cases on cable and network television—she has faced some of the toughest challenges imaginable. Her greatest trial, however, came in a near-fatal accident that became her ultimate wake-up call, inspiring her to help others transform crisis into clarity and purpose. Susan blends legal grit, neuroscience, and spiritual insight to guide high achievers in breaking free from limiting beliefs, reigniting their deepest dreams, and creating lives of joy, fulfillment, and impact. Known as The Wake-Up Call Speaker and The Architect of Reinvention, she delivers keynotes, private strategy sessions, immersive retreats, and media appearances designed to awaken potential, spark transformation, and help people reinvent their lives from the inside out.   Connect with Susan Filan:  Website: https://susanfilan.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanfilan/   Connect with Steve Fretzin: LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin Twitter: @stevefretzin Instagram: @fretzinsteve Facebook: Fretzin, Inc. Website: Fretzin.com Email: Steve@Fretzin.com Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more! YouTube: Steve Fretzin Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

    29 min
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4.9
out of 5
52 Ratings

About

BE THAT LAWYER is for attorneys who want more freedom, enjoyment and most importantly, control in their career. Topics will include business development, marketing, branding, technology, and law firm growth. The goal is to educate, entertain and share best practices related to these topics, so that you, the listener can get real value. This is primarily an interview show with great guests (attorneys and legal marketing professionals), sharing stories and analogies, as well as engaging in personal discussions that will keep you entertained and coming back week after week.

Information

  • Creator
    Steve Fretzin
  • Years Active
    2020 - 2026
  • Episodes
    567
  • Rating
    Explicit
  • Copyright
    © 2020 Steve Fretzin
  • Show Website
    BE THAT LAWYER

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