Last week, Hightower had the absolute pleasure of appearing on Tavis Smiley’s live radio talk show—a lot of great laughs, and a lot of good ground covered! From the Texas races, to America at 250, to the idea that fundamental fairness is a sense all humans share, Tavis and Hightower went deep. Tavis and his team have given us permission to share it with you here, and we’re so grateful—he’s also just started his own Substack newsletter, and we encourage you to subscribe to one of the greats of American media at tavissmiley.substack.com. You can also listen live on KBLA 1580 daily, and subscribe to his podcast. —dz Transcript Edited lightly for clarity Part 1 Tavis Smiley: Tavis Smiley, glad you’re with us in the second hour of our program here today. Yesterday, we stepped into what I call the Elders’ Skybox to talk to Dr. Johnette Cole. She was absolutely amazing yesterday. If you missed that conversation with Johnnetta Cole yesterday, I encourage you to check out the podcast, now posted. She, of course, is the legendary, the iconic, first African American woman to be president of Spelman. But she’s covered so much ground in her amazing career, and she joined us yesterday on the show. And Johnnetta Cole still got it. I mean, she was just blazing yesterday. So if you missed the conversation with Johnnetta Cole yesterday, I encourage you, you will not be disappointed. Check out the podcast, now up, of our dialogue with Dr. Cole yesterday. So we stepped into the Elders Skybox again today to talk to our friend and brother Jim Hightower, the legendary talk show host down in Texas. I quote him oftentimes. When you hear me say that the only thing you find in the middle of the road is a dead armadillo, that was Jim Hightower years ago, and I’ve never forgotten that line from all those years ago. You can’t be middle of the road. We were just talking about that in our hour with Dr. Kaye Wise Whitehead about Hakeem Jeffries and some of these Democrats who, on a number of issues, still want to occupy the center, the middle of the road. That is not where one needs to be, especially right about now. Pick a side. Pick a side is my point. And that was Jim Hightower’s advice many, many years ago. I never forgot when he said it, and I’ve held on to it all these years. I invited him on today to talk about this hot Texas Senate race, but more broadly to get his take, as a longtime progressive, on the march that we are witnessing in real time by these progressives after decades of being in the wilderness. With all that said, I’m honored to welcome Jim Hightower to this program. Jim, how are you, sir? Jim Hightower: I’m doing great, Tavis, and all the greater because I get to visit with you. Tavis Smiley: It’s my honor to have you on this program. Thank you for those kind words. I meant what I said earlier about having listened to you. I’m at that age now. I just turned 62 a couple of days ago, and I’ve been at this, what, 35 years. My mom teases me about it, but people come on the show all the time: “Mr. Smiley, I grew up listening to you, I grew up watching you.” So I’m at that age now where I’m getting that. And this is funny, because I can say that to Jim Hightower now. I grew up listening to him and watching him, and so I’m thrilled to have him on this program. Let me just start with this, broadly speaking. I’ve asked this question of other guests. I’ve got two minutes now, we’ve got the rest of the hour when we come forward, but in these first two minutes, I’m asking you the same question I’ve asked of others. We are inside that eight-week sprint from Labor Day to Election Day. How are you feeling? Jim Hightower: I am feeling more upbeat than I have been in years about Texas politics. Our party has finally come alive down here, as you just indicated. We’ve had too many corporate centrists trying to dominate our party, thinking we can fool the people if we just tiptoe around our progressivism, rather than recognizing that people themselves are progressive. And if we talk to them in that kind of language, they might respond to us in a more favorable way than they have in the past, or respond at all. I would point out, first of all, Tavis, that Texas is not a right-wing state. It is not a Republican state. It is a non-voting state. And it has not been voting because the Democratic Party, my party, has been over in the ditch somewhere, trying not to be discovered, rather than recognizing that most people are quite progressive. I think of it in terms of my own father, who kept up with politics, but he was not political, particularly. He didn’t know he had a political philosophy, but he did, and it was expressed to me many times in these words. He said, “Jim, everybody does better when everybody does better.” And that is what the Democratic Party is supposed to represent. And so that spirit is coming back within the Democratic Party. We have it with James Talarico running for Senate, Gina Hinojosa running for governor, but also let us not forget those down-ballot candidates, who can make such a difference in a campaign. I’ve been one of those myself, so I can attest to it. And we have a terrific lineup this year, including Clayton Tucker running for agriculture commissioner, a position that most people wouldn’t pay a whole lot of attention to until you realize, wait a minute, if you eat, you are involved in agriculture. And we need to make that political as well as edible. Tavis Smiley: Love it. He’s already on a roll. That is the Jim Hightower that I grew up listening to. He’s wise, he drops these one-liners; as we say these days, he’s dropping bars. I love his father’s edict that everybody does better when everybody does better. It’s so simple. But I want to give him some time to unpack this. I want to interrogate this notion that people themselves are progressive. People themselves are progressive. That line resonated with me; I suspect it did with you as well. I’ll let him unpack that and a great deal more. I’m glad to have Jim Hightower for the hour on Tavis Smiley. Tavis Smiley, and longtime progressive activist, legendary talk show host, bestselling author Jim Hightower. So we’ve stepped into the Elders Skybox to tap into his wisdom in this hour as we are hurtling inexorably toward Election Day on Tuesday, November 3rd. Wanted to check in with him on some national issues, but certainly everybody’s watching this Senate race in Texas. I talk to my friends down there all the time, and they are so excited about turning Texas blue. You heard Jim Hightower say a moment ago that Texas is not a Republican state, it’s not a red state, it’s a non-voting state. I’ll let him unpack that as we move through this hour. But just some quick updates here. So you saw the Republican convention, that two-day farce they had down in Texas not long ago. Since that convention, a new poll has come out about the race in Texas. Interestingly, the survey happened on September 13th. That was Sunday, my birthday. And it’s good news for James Talarico. The latest poll, this is the SoCal Strategies poll, shows Talarico leading Paxton 50 percent to 45 percent. It’s a five-point margin. There had been a two-point lead by Paxton over Talarico. It’s fascinating. So before the convention, Paxton was leading Talarico by two points in Texas. Post the convention, it flips. Talarico is now leading Paxton by five points. Not sure what Ken Paxton did or said at that convention that made these numbers flip. Obviously it’s very, very tight, and these polls are snapshots in time. We still have weeks to go before Election Day. We’ll let Jim Hightower unpack a bit more about the tightness of this race in Texas in this hour. But I want to start right now, Jim, where we left off moments ago, and that is with your suggestion that people are themselves a great deal more progressive than we acknowledge or give them credit for. We’ve got time. Unpack that for me. Jim Hightower: Well, just go back to your childhood. The very first political expression of a child, maybe at two years old, is “That’s not fair.” That is a powerful political sentiment, and it’s within all of us. And that’s what we’re seeing today. The unfairness of the billionaires with their data centers invading our communities. The unfairness of the destruction of voting rights, period. Not just the Voting Rights Act, but voting rights. The unfairness of economic plutocracy, really, and just a general unfairness that pervades our society, including the election itself. The idea that money can control. That happened to Texas, just as it did nationally, in the 1980s, when Tony Coelho, a member of Congress from California, decided that the Democrats didn’t need to have all this grassroots stuff. We could just get money from rich people and throw it at television ads, and then we could compete with the Republicans. And the powers that be in the Democratic Party here in Texas agreed with that. So they began to shift away from what Ann Richards and myself and Jim Mattox and Garry Mauro and other good, solid Democrats were winning elections with: a focus on the grassroots people of our state. That got abandoned. Instead they turned to money. And when you turn to money, I can tell you, if you get a corporate check, written on the back of it is the corporate agenda. And they’re going to cash that check, not you. That is what happened to Texas. The Democrats quit being Democrats because, well, we don’t want to upset those money people, so we’ll just tone down our message. And by toning down the message, we tone down our public support, our people’s support. If we weren’t standing for them, why would they stand for us? And so that’s what happened. Our solid Democratic constituencies, which were farmers, working-class folks, teachers, environmentalists, didn’t hear themselves in the Democratic
