Make Time for Success with Dr. Christine Li

Dr. Christine Li
  • 5.0 (114)
  • SELF-IMPROVEMENT
  • UPDATED WEEKLY

Make Time for Success is a podcast designed for busy people who are ready to improve not just their productivity, but also their self-esteem and self-confidence. If you’re looking for the secrets to making productivity feel light and easy rather than something you want to run from, this is the podcast for you. In each episode, psychologist and Procrastination Coach Dr. Christine Li shares effective tips and strategies to help you start building your most joyful, creative, and abundant life. Episodes will include interviews with guest experts who have made the breakthrough to living life fully, as well as stories and reflections from Dr. Li’s own life and work. You’ll hear lessons from Dr. Li’s book, “5-Minute Self-Discipline Habits: Stay Motivated, Cultivate Good Habits, and Achieve Your Goals” and learn how to use the S.M.A.C.K. Solution, a mixture of mindfulness and anxiety-reducing strategies, to keep your fears quiet and your goals in sharp focus. You’ll discover that when you remove the mental, emotional, and physical barriers that are blocking you from getting things done, you'll be able to create more time to excel and thrive. When you listen to the Make Time for Success podcast, you'll soon see what it feels like to have your motivation and energy skyrocket! *THE CONTENT IN THIS PODCAST IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE, DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE MEDICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. NEVER DISREGARD PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE OR DELAY IN SEEKING IT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING YOU HAVE SEEN OR HEARD FROM DR. CHRISTINE LI OR THIS PODCAST.

  1. How to Set Healthy Boundaries Without Guilt: Insights from Allison Ly

    3D AGO

    How to Set Healthy Boundaries Without Guilt: Insights from Allison Ly

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this episode, Dr. Christine Li talks with mental health therapist and coach Allison Ly about how to set healthy boundaries—especially for adults with immigrant parents. Drawing from personal and professional experience, Allison Ly explains why boundary-setting is often challenging in immigrant families. The episode features practical advice for tuning into your own needs, navigating family pushback, and handling guilt, highlighting that boundary-setting is a gradual process that strengthens relationships rather than weakens them. By sharing strategies and resources—including her "Say No" cheat sheet—Allison Ly offers listeners a pathway to healthier, more peaceful family dynamics. Timestamps 00:00:00 – 00:02:44: Dr. Christine Li introduces the episode, guest, and upcoming event.00:02:49 – 00:04:14: Formal welcome and start of discussion on boundaries.00:04:15 – 00:08:34: Allison Ly on boundary challenges in immigrant families.00:08:44 – 00:12:49: Examples and personal experiences with boundaries.00:12:50 – 00:16:22: Handling pushback and emotional awareness.00:16:59 – 00:29:08: Gradual boundary change and effects on relationships.To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/sayno Join Allison's live workshop on February 26th at 11 am PST Adults with Immigrant Parents: The Key to Stop People Pleasing and Spiraling in Guilt: https://heyallisonly.com/secret To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Us! Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.comFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoachInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoachThe Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab                       Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SPAllison Ly Website: https://www.heyallisonly.comPodcast: https://www.heyallisonly.com/podcastInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/heyallisonlyYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@heyallisonly

    30 min
  2. How to Let Go: Why It’s So Hard and How to Finally Move Forward with Confidence

    JAN 29

    How to Let Go: Why It’s So Hard and How to Finally Move Forward with Confidence

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this solo episode of Make Time for Success, Dr. Christine Li explores why letting go—of clutter, old habits, or inherited identities—can be so challenging, and how mastering this skill can lead to greater confidence and personal growth. She discusses the emotional and psychological reasons behind our attachments, the impact of childhood experiences, and shares actionable strategies for making positive changes. Whether you’re struggling with physical clutter or emotional baggage, this episode offers practical encouragement and tips to help you clear space for abundance and new opportunities. For extra support, grab the free resource at maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lettinggo. Timestamps: 00:00:00 – 00:01:09: Dr. Christine Li introduces the episode on the challenges of letting go—clutter, mindset, identity—and its importance. 00:01:14 – 00:03:18: Overview of letting go as a skill, with insights on societal attachment and difficulty discarding things. 00:03:18 – 00:05:05: Benefits of letting go: gaining space, confidence, and opportunities for new identities and growth. 00:05:05 – 00:08:13: Reasons letting go is hard, including revisiting old decisions, attachment, and fear of loss—suggests focusing on gains instead. 00:08:14 – 00:12:45: How childhood experiences and family roles shape our adult habits of holding on or letting go. 00:12:46 – 00:16:31: Impact of changing identities and energy—how personal change affects relationships and group dynamics. 00:16:34 – 00:21:41: Practical advice for confident decisions: safety, trusting feelings, finding flow, and self-trust. 00:21:41 – 00:24:53: Episode wrap-up, resource info, and ways to connect. To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lettinggo To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP

    25 min
  3. Why Clutter Makes You Anxious—and How to Break Free

    JAN 22

    Why Clutter Makes You Anxious—and How to Break Free

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this episode, Dr. Christine Li unpacks why clutter isn’t just about messy spaces—it actively fuels stress and anxiety. She shares four main emotional triggers clutter creates, including safety fears, guilt about money, sentimental attachments, and pure exhaustion. Dr. Christine Li offers practical tips to help you gently release clutter and reduce stress one step at a time, making your home a sanctuary of calm. She also invites listeners to join her free “Re-Energize Your Home” 5-day decluttering challenge, designed to help you start clearing your space and regaining your focus and energy. This episode is a supportive guide for anyone looking to break free from clutter and reclaim their peace of mind. Timestamps 00:00:00 – 00:00:58: Dr. Christine Li introduces the episode’s focus on clutter and stress. 00:01:03 – 00:01:47: Dr. Christine Li shares her background and the podcast’s purpose. 00:01:47 – 00:04:21: Dr. Christine Li discusses how clutter creates stress zones and is not neutral. 00:04:21 – 00:07:23: Dr. Christine Li explains how clutter types trigger stress, fear, and emotional responses. 00:07:27 – 00:11:47: Dr. Christine Li breaks down money guilt and emotional attachments to clutter. 00:11:51 – 00:14:21: Dr. Christine Li covers the energy drain of clutter and encourages letting go. 00:14:23 – 00:19:08: Dr. Christine Li addresses barriers to decluttering and shares strategies to move forward step by step. 00:17:07 – 00:19:08: Dr. Christine Li motivates listeners to go slowly and intentionally, and promises transformation through decluttering. 00:19:08 – 00:19:37: Dr. Christine Li invites listeners to a free 5-day decluttering challenge. To sign up for the free Re-Energize Your Home 5-day Challenge that begins Monday, January 26th, go to: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/ryhc-january-2026 To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP

    20 min
  4. Visualization Secrets: A Proven Process for Manifesting Your Dreams with Megan Blacksmith

    JAN 15

    Visualization Secrets: A Proven Process for Manifesting Your Dreams with Megan Blacksmith

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this inspiring episode of the Make Time for Success podcast, host Dr. Christine Li welcomes back Megan Blacksmith, an NLP expert, speaker, and co-founder of Zesty. Together, they dive deep into visualization and neuro linguistic programming (NLP) as powerful tools for breaking old patterns, manifesting dreams, and achieving lasting inner transformation. Megan Blacksmith shares her story of accidental visualization, practical techniques for rewiring your mindset, and guidance on moving through resistance and limiting beliefs. You’ll hear real-world examples and actionable strategies to help you create your ideal future—one that’s possible, even if it feels out of reach today. Get ready to discover the secrets to manifesting your dreams with clarity, creativity, and confidence! Timestamps: 00:00:00 - 00:02:47: Dr. Christine Li introduces the episode and welcomes Megan Blacksmith, who shares her expertise in NLP. 00:02:48 - 00:05:35: Megan Blacksmith discusses her entry into NLP, its impact on her coaching, and how subconscious programming affects results. 00:05:36 - 00:14:06: Exploration of how emotional events and hidden beliefs hold people back, including analogies like clutter. 00:14:06 - 00:18:27: Discussing discomfort as a sign of growth and the challenges of stepping into a new identity. 00:24:33 - 00:32:40: Insights into using visualization for goal achievement, with Megan Blacksmith’s personal story as an example. 00:32:41 - 00:39:00: Detailed visualization tips: make your vision vivid, specific, and emotionally charged. To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Us! Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.comFacebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoachInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoachThe Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab                       Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SPMegan Blacksmith Website: http://www.becomingzesty.com/Podcast: http://becomingzesty.com/podcastInstagram: https://instagram.com/becomingzestyYouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@becoming_zesty

    48 min
  5. How to Override Your Brain's Resistance and Achieve Your Biggest Goals in 2026

    JAN 8

    How to Override Your Brain's Resistance and Achieve Your Biggest Goals in 2026

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In episode 265 of the Make Time for Success podcast, Dr. Christine Li explores why overcoming our brain's resistance to change can feel so challenging, especially when striving for bigger goals in 2026. She shares insights on how our personal stories and beliefs often hold us back, and offers practical strategies to override these patterns—like choosing happiness and consistency over old habits. Through relatable examples, such as decluttering physical and mental spaces, Dr. Christine Li encourages listeners to start the new year with a transformational attitude, actionable steps, and a focus on lasting, meaningful change. TIMESTAMPS: [00:02:29] Dr. Christine Li explains that we overlay personal beliefs and stories onto our goals, which can cause us to forget what we truly want to achieve. [00:04:37] Small changes made in a single day can lead to giant possibilities of transformation, according to Dr. Christine Li. [00:06:12] Sharing her own experience with decluttering, Dr. Christine Li reveals how even committed minds can face resistance from their own brains. [00:09:43] Overriding your brain's tendency to favor the status quo by consistently choosing happiness and your chosen goal is a powerful strategy for transformation. [00:11:15] Dr. Christine Li emphasizes the importance of consistency, encouraging listeners to check in with themselves daily to stay grounded and true to their goals. [00:15:16] Affirming self-support and intuitive decision-making, Dr. Christine Li reads an inspiring declaration on choosing confidence, passion, and direction in the new year. To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/reflection To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP

    17 min
  6. 13 Powerful Reflections to Kickstart Your Success in 2026

    JAN 2

    13 Powerful Reflections to Kickstart Your Success in 2026

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this New Year reflection episode of Make Time for Success, Dr. Christine Li shares 13 powerful insights and lessons inspired by her clients in the Success Lab program. She encourages listeners to embrace the present moment, appreciate the value of slow and steady progress, let go of perfectionism and clutter, prioritize relationships, and envision big possibilities for the year ahead. The episode closes with an uplifting meditation to help you set intentions for a successful and joy-filled 2026. Timestamps: 03:27 – "Be where you are:" Dr. Christine Li shares the foundational idea of embracing your present circumstances, using her hotel lobby recording location as a real-time example. 04:00 – "Slow is not less than fast:" The concept that moving slowly does not mean you are less successful; in fact, slow, mindful progress is celebrated by members of her Success Lab. 05:54 – "The things that seem impossible right now are doable if you take tiny steps and you stay consistent." Dr. Christine Li encourages listeners to break down big goals into micro steps and maintain consistency for surprising results. 06:15 – "Putting pressure on yourself is just another way of slowing you down." On the importance of self-compassion and reducing unnecessary expectations to avoid overwhelm and paralysis. 09:15 – "When you let things go, you end up revealing more of your true self." Letting go of hangups, patterns, or clutter allows your authentic self to shine and brings greater fulfillment. 13:11 – "Use life as a playground, not a prison." A motivating reflection on the possibilities and freedoms we all have, inviting the audience to approach the new year with playfulness and power. 17:16 – Dr. Christine Li's New Year Reflection/Meditation. A guided meditation and affirmation, beautifully rounding out the episode's themes. To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to  https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/newyear To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP

    21 min
  7. Building Consistency Without Burnout: Tips from Planning Expert Wenda Benavidez

    12/25/2025

    Building Consistency Without Burnout: Tips from Planning Expert Wenda Benavidez

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this inspiring episode of Make Time for Success, host Dr. Christine Li welcomes planning expert Wenda Benavidez to discuss practical strategies for using paper planners to create more purpose and ease in everyday life. Wenda shares her journey from overwhelmed stay-at-home mom to successful planning coach, revealing how simple routines and flexible systems can transform chaotic days into productive, fulfilling ones.   Wenda is a mom of three and the founder of wendaful.com. She started her business to help women take control of their busy lives with simple, realistic planning systems. Through her digital planners, courses, and YouTube channel, she teaches practical ways to stay organized, focused, and consistent without overwhelm. Timestamps: 00:00:00 – 00:01:14:Dr. Christine Li introduces Wenda Benavidez and the episode focus.00:03:03 – 00:03:56:Wenda Benavidez shares how she started planning and helping others.00:05:25 – 00:05:44:Wenda Benavidez explains the benefits of paper planning.00:07:08 – 00:07:42:Wenda Benavidez talks about why people struggle with planner consistency.00:11:08 – 00:12:23: The value of systems over tracking every detail.00:15:50 – 00:16:23: Focus on frequency (coming back), not strict consistency.00:17:29 – 00:18:12: How Wenda Benavidez works with clients and her free checklist.To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/wendaful To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Us! Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab                        Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP Wenda Benavidez Website: https://www.wendaful.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/WENDAFULPLANNING YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@wendaful TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@wendafulplanning

    21 min
  8. A Gentle End-of-Year Reset: Movement, Mindset, and Meaningful Change

    12/18/2025

    A Gentle End-of-Year Reset: Movement, Mindset, and Meaningful Change

    Send Dr. Li a text here. Please leave your email address if you would like a reply, thanks. In this episode of the Make Time for Success podcast, Dr. Christine Li guides listeners through a gentle, stress-free year-end review. She shares mindful strategies for reflecting on 2025, focusing on movement, mindset, and the meaningful moments from the past year. Listeners are invited to take stock of their experiences without judgment, highlight moments of gratitude, tackle lingering open loops, and set intentions for the coming year—all with kindness and self-compassion. This episode is perfect for anyone looking for a calming reset and some inspiration as they prepare for what's next. Timestamps: 00:00:00 – 00:00:53 | Dr. Christine Li introduces the episode and its gentle year-end review focus.00:03:06 – 00:06:56 | Section 1: Taking Stock – Reflecting on movement, input, and mindset from the past year.00:09:23 – 00:11:35 | Section 2: Gratitude – Reviewing moments of gratitude and appreciating wins.00:11:47 – 00:14:24 | Section 3: Open Loops – Identifying and closing or letting go of unfinished business.00:15:04 – 00:17:50 | Section 4: Preparing for What’s Next – Setting gentle intentions and looking ahead.00:17:50 – End | Recap and resources for further reflection.To get the free download that accompanies this episode, go to  https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/review To sign up for the Waitlist for the Simply Productive Program, go to https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP For more information on the Make Time for Success podcast, visit: https://www.maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com Gain Access to Dr. Christine Li’s Free Resource Library -- 12 downloadable tools and templates to help you bypass the impulse to procrastinate: https://procrastinationcoach.mykajabi.com/freelibrary To work with Dr. Li on a weekly basis in her coaching and accountability program, register for The Success Lab here: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com/lab Connect with Us! Dr. Christine Li Website: https://www.procrastinationcoach.com Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/procrastinationcoach Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/procrastinationcoach/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@procrastinationcoach The Success Lab: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/lab                        Simply Productive: https://maketimeforsuccesspodcast.com/SP

    20 min
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Make Time for Success is a podcast designed for busy people who are ready to improve not just their productivity, but also their self-esteem and self-confidence. If you’re looking for the secrets to making productivity feel light and easy rather than something you want to run from, this is the podcast for you. In each episode, psychologist and Procrastination Coach Dr. Christine Li shares effective tips and strategies to help you start building your most joyful, creative, and abundant life. Episodes will include interviews with guest experts who have made the breakthrough to living life fully, as well as stories and reflections from Dr. Li’s own life and work. You’ll hear lessons from Dr. Li’s book, “5-Minute Self-Discipline Habits: Stay Motivated, Cultivate Good Habits, and Achieve Your Goals” and learn how to use the S.M.A.C.K. Solution, a mixture of mindfulness and anxiety-reducing strategies, to keep your fears quiet and your goals in sharp focus. You’ll discover that when you remove the mental, emotional, and physical barriers that are blocking you from getting things done, you'll be able to create more time to excel and thrive. When you listen to the Make Time for Success podcast, you'll soon see what it feels like to have your motivation and energy skyrocket! *THE CONTENT IN THIS PODCAST IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE, DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT AND DOES NOT CONSTITUTE MEDICAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL OR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE. NEVER DISREGARD PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL ADVICE OR DELAY IN SEEKING IT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING YOU HAVE SEEN OR HEARD FROM DR. CHRISTINE LI OR THIS PODCAST.

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