The Dad Edge Podcast

Larry Hagner

The Dad Edge Podcast is a movement. It is a strong community of Fathers who all share a set of values. Larry Hagner, founder of The Dad Edge, breaks down common challenges of fatherhood, making them easy to understand and overcome. Tackling the world of Fatherhood can be a daunting task when we try to do it alone. The mission of The Dad Edge Podcast is to help you become the best, strongest, and happiest version of yourself so that you can help guide your kids to the best version of themselves. Simple as that. Everything you need and all of our resources can be found at thedadedge.com/podcast

  1. 1d ago

    Shaping Results by Establish Purpose & Values featuring Nick Friedman

    This week I sat down with Nick Friedman, the original college hunk behind College Hunks Hauling Junk and Moving, a company that started with a beat up cargo van the summer before his senior year of college and has grown to more than 200 franchises and over $300 million a year in sales. Nick has been on Shark Tank and Undercover Boss, is a two time Emmy Award winning producer, and is a dad of four who has been married since 2013. We got into the culture he built at work and the one he tries to build at home, including the four L's his family lives by and what it means to be a chief repetition officer. Nick shared the story of his son swallowing a glass bead, how a false viral accusation tested his patience, why he tells entrepreneurs to have urgency of effort and patience for the results, and the honest way he and his wife handle resentment in their marriage. If you're a dad chasing something big while trying to keep your marriage and kids first, this one is for you.   Timeline Summary [0:00] Introduction and the October Dad Edge Alliance promo: a signed book, two free courses, and an advance copy of The Marriage Drift [3:11] How a best friend's mom, a beat up cargo van, and a joke turned Nick into the original college hunk [6:42] Turning HUNKS into an acronym: honest, uniformed, nice, knowledgeable service [7:52] Why 80 to 90% of calls came from the female household decision maker [13:39] Why a company without a culture is like a picture frame without a photo [14:55] Chief repetition officer: reinforcing purpose and values every single day [17:12] The family core values Nick lives by: listen, learn, laugh, and love [23:07] Nick's son swallows a glass bead, and the framed lesson that now hangs in his room [25:23] From Shark Tank to Undercover Boss: the two bookends of Nick's TV journey [35:22] Staying steady when a viral false accusation hits social media [39:58] Urgency of effort, patience for the results, in business and in parenting [41:48] The critter state: why kids and adults need to cool off before logic can land [48:02] Raising the floor: your character as a leader, a father, and a human [50:27] Nick's honest take on his marriage and why being intentional matters [52:49] The no resentment longer than 24 hours rule [55:09] Larry shares why only 12% of married couples call their marriage fulfilling   Key Takeaways Purpose and values shape behavior, behavior shapes culture, and culture shapes results, so be the chief repetition officer and reinforce them every single day. Teach your kids your values with stories they can remember, like the framed glass bead on your son's wall, because stories stick in a way rules never do. Have urgency of effort and patience for the results, and give your kids and yourself grace along the way. When emotions run high, let the critter state settle before you reach for logic, whether you're talking with your wife or your kids. Don't let your marriage run like a family LLC, be intentional with date nights and honest conversations, and don't let resentment last longer than 24 hours.   Links & Resources Nick Friedman: https://nickfriedman.com College Hunks Hauling Junk and Moving: https://www.collegehunkshaulingjunk.com Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1551   Closing Nick's story about his son swallowing that glass bead, and now having it framed on his wall, stuck with me because it shows how one story can teach what a lecture never will. His answer about his marriage, that he wouldn't give himself an A+ and knows he can do better, is the kind of honesty that keeps us from drifting. Pick one thing from this conversation this week, maybe a no resentment longer than 24 hours rule with your wife or a story that teaches your kids a value. Go out and live legendary.

  2. 3d ago

    Willpower Alone Will Never Fix a P*rn Problem (Here's Why) featuring Steven Wolt

    This week I sat down with Steven Wolt, the founder of Valor Recovery, a virtual coaching program that helps men overcome pornography abuse and compulsive sexual behavior. Steven is a husband, father, and entrepreneur who spent decades fighting a private war with sexual addiction while looking successful on the outside. After hitting rock bottom in 2008, he rebuilt his life and now uses that story to help other men get free. We went underneath the shame, the secrecy, and the promises of I'm done. Steven explained why willpower alone fails, why porn abuse is really an intimacy disorder, how a phone became his main tool for regulating emotions, and what recovery looks like through emotional regulation, community, and vulnerability. If you're a dad who has struggled in silence, or you want to break the cycle so your sons do not inherit it, this one is for you.   Timeline Summary [1:02] Larry welcomes Steven Wolt and explains why porn recovery episodes get big downloads but few comments [2:25] Larry shares his own origin story with pornography, starting at age nine [4:09] Larry introduces Steven, the founder of Valor Recovery, and what dads will learn [7:33] Steven's start in 1990s New York City, using porn to numb depression and loneliness [9:07] How his use escalated, and the shame that came with a progression no one explained to him [12:18] Hitting rock bottom in 2008 after losing his career and cycling through treatment centers [19:40] Why porn abuse is an intimacy disorder and why the opposite of addiction is connection [23:18] How shame feeds the belief "I am flawed" and keeps your life small [26:59] The difference between porn use and porn abuse, and using it to regulate emotions [28:21] Why it's not about willpower: the phone as a primary regulation tool and retraining the nervous system [30:30] Three things a man must address: regulating emotions, finding root causes, and tolerating boredom [36:16] How exercise and caring for yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually replace the need to escape [44:59] A walk with the baby, with and without a phone, and why men need time away from screens [50:24] Larry sits with his sadness over his first son leaving, and why emotions are neither good nor bad [56:49] How men find the courage to go first with vulnerability, and why it creates a domino effect [1:00:12] How Valor Recovery works as a 90 day coaching program led by men in long term recovery   Five Key Takeaways Willpower alone doesn't fix porn abuse because it is a learned way to regulate emotions, so recovery means retraining your nervous system to handle urges, discomfort, and cravings. Porn abuse is often an intimacy disorder, which means the opposite of addiction is connection, and very few men overcome it by white knuckling it alone. Guilt says I did something wrong while shame says I am wrong, and moving past shame is what stops it from keeping your life small. Learning to sit with boredom and uncomfortable emotions like sadness and loneliness, without reaching for your phone, is a key part of lasting recovery. Caring for yourself physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and being brave enough to be vulnerable with other men, builds a life you don't need to escape from.   Links & Resources Valor Recovery social media: https://www.facebook.com/ValorRecovery/, https://www.instagram.com/valorrecovery1/, https://www.linkedin.com/company/valor-recovery Valor Recovery: https://findyourvalor.com The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1545   Closing Steven said the opposite of addiction is not recovery, it's connection, and I felt that when I admitted I'd been distracting myself with busyness instead of sitting with my sadness over my first son leaving for college. If you're struggling with this, you're in good company, and it's a battle none of us should fight in isolation. Reach out to a brother or to Valor this week, put your phone in another room, and let yourself be bored for a few minutes. Go out and live legendary.

  3. 6d ago

    Spontaneous or Responsive Desire in Marriage (What the Difference is) featuring Dr. Diane Mueller

    This week I sat down with Dr. Diane Mueller, a board certified sexologist with doctorates in natural medicine and acupuncture and oriental medicine. She is the host of the Libido Lounge and a best selling author and international speaker who helps committed couples who went from passionate lovers to feeling like roommates. She looks at the whole picture, including hormones, stress, kids, menopause, communication, and life transitions. We got honest about how easily intimacy slips off track, including my own sadness since our first son left the nest and the drinking habit I traced back to it. Dr. Mueller explained why new relationship energy fades after 6 to 18 months, the difference between spontaneous and responsive desire, how novelty brings the spark back, and why talking about sex feels like such a threat. If you're a husband or dad who wants to stop settling for roommate status in your marriage and rebuild desire and connection, this one is for you.   Timeline Summary [0:00] Introduction and the October Dad Edge Alliance promo [3:01] Larry welcomes Dr. Diane Mueller of the Libido Lounge and asks how she got into this work [4:24] Her story of how life gets couples off their intimate track and turns them into roommates [8:42] What somatic experience means and why we escape uncomfortable feelings in the body [11:32] Larry shares how sadness over his son leaving led him to drink more, and why he gave it up [12:47] Breaking habits by asking "why am I doing this" and letting the ego take a back seat [15:15] Larry introduces Dr. Mueller and the questions on roommate syndrome, desire, and kids [17:04] Why new relationship energy lasts 6 to 18 months and how dopamine and novelty drive desire [19:49] Why couples plan intimacy before moving in together, then expect it to happen on its own [24:16] Spontaneous desire versus responsive desire and why the difference matters in marriage [25:30] Why a partner with responsive desire needs 15 minutes to an hour of warm up [27:32] Bringing novelty back with a yes, no, maybe checklist and a date night conversation [30:14] How to set your partner up to respond well when you share something vulnerable [33:01] Why talking about sex feels like a bigger threat than other conflicts [35:07] Start by talking only about what's going right to help the nervous system feel safe [40:30] The right next step for dads: start the conversation and don't put intimacy on autopilot [43:17] Where to find Dr. Mueller's books, free resources, and social channels   Five Key Takeaways The rush of new relationship energy lasts about 6 to 18 months, so when it fades it doesn't mean something is wrong with your marriage. Spontaneous desire and responsive desire are different, and a partner with responsive desire often needs 15 minutes to an hour of warm up before the desire shows up. Bring novelty back by going through a yes, no, maybe checklist on a date night, and tell your partner ahead of time how you want them to respond to what you share. Conversations about sex feel like a bigger threat than other conflicts, so start by only talking about what's going right until both of you feel safe. Intimacy can't run on autopilot any more than your health can, so ask what you're avoiding and take one small step toward talking about it.   Links & Resources Dr. Diane Mueller (My Libido Doc): https://mylibidodoc.com Want to Want It by Dr. Diane Mueller: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=want+to+want+it+diane+mueller Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1547   Closing Dr. Mueller reminded me that the body doesn't lie, and when I admitted I'd been drinking more because I was sad about our son leaving, I saw how easily we avoid the feelings we don't want to face. Her challenge is simple: tell your wife what she does well, make it safe to talk, and don't let your marriage run on autopilot. Pick one thing you love about the way she connects with you and tell her this week. Go out and live legendary.

  4. Oct 21

    The Danger of Raising Boys Through a Screen featuring Bill Winchester

    Bill Winchester is back on the show, and one word kept coming to mind as I read his story: builder. He started with backyard tree forts, married his high school sweetheart Christy at 21, raised three kids, and helped build the church his family worshiped in and the school his kids attended. Somewhere along the way he realized the most important thing he'd ever build was men, which led him to create the Dangerously Good Men rite of passage in Bend, Oregon, and Improving Grounds, where men gather around a fire on Saturday mornings. We talked about raising sons in a digital world, why despair and loneliness are rising among men, and the difference between protecting your son and preparing him. Bill walked through the liminal space between boyhood and manhood, the six core values behind his framework, and the men of significance every young man needs in his corner. If you're a dad raising a boy who is nearing his teens and you want to send him into manhood supported instead of unprepared, this conversation is for you.   Timeline Summary [1:01] Larry welcomes Bill Winchester back and asks about the rite of passage he created for his oldest son [3:18] How Dangerously Good Men serves boys 12 to 15, and a father and son who came full circle after four years [5:59] Larry introduces Bill: a builder, a father of three, and a man helping fathers lead sons into manhood [9:22] Raising sons in a digital world, the despair among men, and living in 3D in a 2D world [12:46] Why fathers must shift from protecting their sons to preparing them [18:00] The liminal space: the threshold between boyhood and manhood [19:53] How absent fathers, latchkey kids, and screens left young men unprepared [22:34] Why anything that can give you everything can take it all away [24:16] Turning the SOS into shared strength and building community before the crisis [29:28] Six arrows, a shadow box, and the four year journey that ended in a college dorm room [31:38] The six HEROIC core values: honorable, enterprising, responsible, original, intimate, and creative [38:49] Men of significance: the letters five men write to a son, each tied to a core value [40:36] Driving away from a college dorm knowing his son was prepared and not alone [44:25] Why a boy needs other good men besides his dad, from grandfathers to coaches [56:46] Why a deep installation process beats cramming, and why it is simple but not easy [1:02:15] Where to find Bill's work and a free 90 minute call for registering for the January 2027 event   Key Takeaways Shift from protecting your son to preparing him, because a boy who has only been protected steps into manhood empty handed. Give your son a clear threshold between boyhood and manhood, because a graduation party alone doesn't tell him who he is becoming. Recruit a small circle of trusted men who will write him letters and answer the phone at 3 a.m., because a boy listens differently to a man he respects. Teach your son that his worth doesn't come from likes, followers, or screens, because anything that can give you everything can take it all away. Build values deep over years instead of cramming them in a crisis, because what is bolted on quickly gets unbolted at the first challenge.   Links & Resources Dangerously Good Men (January 2027 event, use code FirstArrow for a free 90 minute coaching call): https://dangerouslygoodmen.com Improving Grounds: https://improvinggrounds.com Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1548   Closing Bill told me about driving away from his oldest son's dorm room, knowing his boy had a quiver of arrows and a handful of men who would pick up the phone, and how that gave him peace he couldn't have gotten any other way. That's what I felt when I watched Mason walk through his own rite of passage, and it's why I'm bringing Lawson to Bill's January 2027 event. Whether you do it with a mountain hike, a weekend away, or a simple circle of men, don't leave your son's manhood to chance. Start by picking one man you trust and asking him to step in. Go out and live legendary.

  5. Oct 19

    The Mother's Side Baldness Myth Finally Explained featuring Dr. Goran Jezic

    Dr. Goran Jezic is a dual board certified physician practicing in Houston since 1996 who has focused on hair restoration for over a decade, with his team reporting more than 1 million hair grafts implanted. He personally conducts every consultation and specializes in the follicular unit extraction (FUE) method, working with everyday men as well as professional athletes, actors, and celebrities. In this episode Larry and Dr. Jezic break down why men actually lose their hair, what finasteride and minoxidil really do (and their side effect profiles), and how modern FUE transplants compare to the older strip method and the "hair plugs" of the past. If you're a man noticing thinning or a receding hairline and you want straight answers on genetics, medications, and what's possible before your hairline is gone, this conversation is for you.   Timeline Summary [1:01] – Larry welcomes Dr. Goran Jezic and frames the topic every man quietly thinks about: hair loss [1:24] – Dr. Jezic on his father, a three time Olympian in water polo and PhD chemist who called fatherhood his proudest achievement [4:22] – His dad's early passing from prostate cancer just shy of 74, and being inducted into the Water Polo Hall of Fame posthumously [6:14] – The one standard his father held him to: integrity and "do the right thing when nobody's looking" [9:07] – Larry's intro to Dr. Jezic's credentials, 1 million plus grafts, and hands-on consultations [12:10] – Why high-performing dads often pressure their kids, and how Dr. Jezic's father chose "did you do your best?" instead [20:11] – Larry reveals he had hair restoration surgery in 2012 and has zero regrets [20:35] – The real cause of hair loss explained: androgenic alopecia, DHT, and genetically susceptible follicles [22:43] – Busting the myth that baldness comes only from your mother's side of the family [25:32] – Finasteride, DHT, and the small subset of men who get low-T side effects including depression and suicidal ideation [28:21] – How minoxidil actually works, why it's different from finasteride, and the oral pill option [33:36] – FUE versus the older strip (FUT) method, linear scarring, and why both beat the old hair plugs [37:21] – What men are most worried about in consultations and the real psychological weight of hair loss [40:04] – How TRT and testosterone optimization can accelerate hair loss in predisposed men [45:11] – Dr. Jezic's closing message: free consultations, no stigma, and "you've got nothing to lose but more hair"   5 Key Takeaways Hair Loss Is Genetic And Hormonal — Male pattern baldness is androgenic alopecia, driven by genetically susceptible follicles that react to the testosterone byproduct DHT. It's roughly a third of men by 30 and half by 50. The Mother's Side Myth Is Mostly Myth — Baldness was once thought to be inherited only from the maternal line, but research now shows it's multifactorial, can come from either side, and can skip generations. Finasteride Keeps, Minoxidil Grows — Finasteride blocks DHT to protect the hair you still have, while minoxidil lengthens the growth cycle to stimulate fuller hair. They work by completely different mechanisms and pair well together. Know The Side Effect Profile — A small percentage of men on finasteride experience low-T type effects like low libido, mood changes, and in rare cases depression or suicidal ideation. It's uncommon but real and worth discussing with a doctor. Modern Transplants Are Not Hair Plugs — Today's FUE method extracts individual follicles with no linear scar, minimal downtime, and natural-looking results, a far cry from the strip method and the obvious plugs of decades past.   Links & Resources Houston Hair Transplant Center — https://houstonhairtransplant.com Maxim Hair Restoration (Dr. Jezic is medical director) — https://maximhairrestoration.com The Dad Edge website and episode page — https://thedadedge.com/1552 Join The Dad Edge Alliance — https://thedadedge.com/alliance   Enjoyed This Episode? If you've ever stared at a clump of hair in the shower drain and wondered whether anything actually works, this conversation gives you the straight science without the Instagram hype. Share it with a friend who's been quietly battling the bald and wondering what his options really are. Follow The Dad Edge, and if the show's helped you, leave a rating and review so more dads can find it.

  6. Oct 16

    The Unspoken Expectations Are Quietly Hurting Your Marriage featuring Michael Bernoff

    This week I sat down with Michael Bernoff, a human behavior expert with more than 20 years of study into communication, influence, and language. He's the founder of the Human Communications Institute and the author of Average Sucks, and he started as an average middle class Jersey kid who was told that certain things weren't for people like us. At 19 he discovered that communication is a skill you can learn, and at 21 he met his mentor Jim Rohn, whose success principles shaped decades of his work. We got practical on the words we use with our kids, our wives, and ourselves when nobody is listening. Michael shared why saying it's hard keeps us stuck, why telling your kid you're proud of him might not be enough, how one phrase takes the pressure off any habit, and what your wife may really mean when she says you should know by now. If you're a dad or husband who wants to be more intentional about the language and communication patterns in your home, this one is for you.   Timeline Summary [1:01] Larry welcomes Michael Bernoff and asks the story behind going by Mike versus Michael [4:19] Larry introduces Michael: communication expert, founder of the Human Communications Institute, and author of Average Sucks [9:17] Growing up with the "that's them, this is us" mindset, and why "how can I do that" beats "how does he do that" [12:29] How wrestling legend Jake Herbert and Larry trade a daily gratitude text before 6 a.m. [18:54] The psychology of communication: why words trigger a chemical reaction and performance is influence [22:15] The reframe for kids: swap "it's hard" for "it's harder than you'd like it to be" [25:39] Why "you should be proud of yourself" can land better than "I'm proud of you" [29:24] Larry's story about praising a talented wrestler's wins instead of his work ethic [31:30] Honor the effort, not the result: why "of course you did, that's the kind of person you are" works [37:59] Why absolutes like every day create stress, and how "more often than not" makes habits doable [43:40] What to say at night instead of "I'm exhausted": "I served a lot of people today" [48:35] Sorting food into nutrition, entertainment, and addiction to change what you eat [52:37] Marriage: why unspoken expectations lead to disappointment, and how to own your mistakes [58:16] What "you should know by now" really means, and how to ask your wife for what you need [1:00:35] Why your wife expects you to be great, and why it's okay she doesn't say it every day [1:02:38] Closing message: it's up to dads to lead the change in how we communicate at home   Key Takeaways Communication isn't about what you said, it's about what was heard, so speak to get the response you want instead of to sound right. Teach your kids to say it's harder than they'd like it to be instead of it's hard, because that small change points the mind toward a solution. Honor your kids' effort and who they're becoming instead of just the result, and help them feel proud of themselves so they don't need your approval to feel good. Trade absolutes like every day for more often than not, and the pressure comes off while the habit sticks. Say your expectations out loud to your wife, because unspoken expectations lead to disappointment, and you're not owed a particular response.   Links & Resources Michael Bernoff: https://michaelbernoff.com Average Sucks by Michael Bernoff: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=average+sucks+michael+bernoff Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1544   Closing Michael said it isn't what you say that matters, it's how what you said was received, and I've been listening to my own words differently ever since. When I told him how I wished my wife would touch me more and she heard criticism, I saw exactly how quickly a good request turns into a defensive moment. Michael's challenge was simple: ask for what you want, don't expect a perfect response, and lead the way in how your family talks. Pick one phrase this week, maybe more often than not, and use it with your kids and your wife. Go out and live legendary.

  7. Oct 14

    How Your Relationship With Yourself Shapes Every Other Relationship featuring Traver Boehm

    Traver Boehm is back on the show for the third time, and I still remember his first story like it was yesterday. He's a former professional MMA fighter and bodyguard with a master's degree in traditional Chinese medicine, a hospice volunteer, more than 11 years sober, and the founder of the Uncivilized movement. He's the author of Today I Rise, Uncivilized, and 28 Days in Darkness, and he has now spent 77 days of his life in complete darkness, including 49 straight days in a dark room in Tuscany with no phone, no people, and no clock. We talk about what it takes to stop running from yourself, the fragmentation I see in so many men, and the morning a phrase landed so hard that Traver dropped to his knees. We also get honest about suicide, why men need to pick up the phone, and what a relationship with yourself does for your marriage and your kids. If you're a dad who feels the drift of busyness and wonders who you really are underneath it, this conversation is for you.   Timeline Summary [1:01] Larry welcomes Traver Boehm back for his third time on the show [4:32] Larry introduces Traver: MMA fighter, bodyguard, hospice volunteer, 11 years sober, and 77 days in the dark [6:01] How 2016 brought a lost pregnancy, a divorce, and a lost business, and the question of who he was as a man [8:27] Fragmentation: the man everyone sees, the man his family sees, and the man nobody sees [10:26] Why Traver felt called back into the dark after his father died [11:49] The call about his cousin's death that pushed him to write his book and go back into darkness [19:09] Terror and acceptance: why a true initiation has to carry the risk of a breakdown [23:04] A message to men in dark times: pick up the phone, because we want you to reach out [28:52] The mantra One Life, All In: why a man is meant to live one life, not a public, private, and secret one [30:35] The morning a word came to him while pacing the dark mile and dropped him to his knees [36:34] Day 45: the hardest morning of the 49 days, and the guide who sensed it from afar [46:44] Walking out on day 49: the sunrise, birds, and tears after seven weeks without light [50:20] Welcome back to reality: credit card fraud, a rough landing, and a year of reorganizing [54:32] The core lesson: your relationship with yourself changes every other relationship [57:13] Questions every father should answer, and why kids need a dad who knows himself [1:00:52] Larry on human doing versus human being, and what he avoids with distraction   Key Takeaways You don't have to wait for a crisis to ask who you are as a man, and one quiet hour with yourself is a good place to start. Keeping the public, private, and secret versions of yourself apart drains your energy, and living one life gives it back. If you're in a dark place, pick up the phone and tell someone, because the people who love you would rather hear from you than lose you. Everything you build on top of a relationship with yourself is a bonus, and chasing success to fill that void never works. Your kids get a better father when you can honestly answer what you want and whether this is the life you want to live.   Links & Resources 28 Days in Darkness by Traver Boehm: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=28+days+in+darkness  Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1541   Closing Traver said the most important relationship we have is the one with ourselves, and I've been asking myself those same questions ever since we stopped recording. I told him I can't sit still for 30 minutes, and that tells me I have some work to do on what I'm avoiding with distraction. So this week, take one hour, ask the man in the mirror how he's really doing, and ask your wife whether she's happy. And if you're in a dark place right now, call someone today. Go out and live legendary.

  8. Oct 12

    Why 70% of the Mental Load Still Falls on Mom When Raising a Family featuring Sam Kelly

    This week I talked with Sam Kelly, a mom of three, a master's-level art therapy counselor, and the creator of Little Cycle Breakers, about the mental load, the invisible, exhausting job of noticing everything that needs to be done in a house before anyone else even sees it. Sam spent over a year trying to get her husband to share that load the old way, more chore charts, more reminders, more managing, before she realized she was just teaching her own kids to wait for instructions too. That realization became "notice and do," the framework at the center of her brand new book, and the idea we spend most of this conversation digging into. This one gets real, and it's not just for moms. Sam and I get into what dads are actually missing when it comes to invisible labor, why chore charts and reward systems tend to fail, how to teach a five-year-old to notice a full trash can without becoming "the manager" forever, and a section where I push her on how men and women can both actually feel heard instead of attacked when these conversations get hard. If you've ever felt like you're just waiting for the next assignment in your own house, or you're the one handing them out, this episode is for you.   Timeline Summary [2:15] Sam and Larry discuss the hate she gets online whenever a post about partners goes viral, and how this is her first podcast interview with a man [4:12] Larry reads Sam's full bio: her art therapy background, Little Cycle Breakers, and her new book, Notice and Do [7:53] Sam explains which topics tend to trigger men the most, especially content about partners rather than kids [9:20] Sam introduces the idea of a "mental privilege" gap between how men and women are culturally conditioned [13:29] Larry shares a story about trying to recreate his wife's artwork, and admits he never learned "notice and do" growing up [15:24] Sam points out couples spend roughly 1,500 hours preparing for a wedding and about three hours preparing for the marriage [19:26] Larry asks how women can raise the mental load without it turning into an attack, and Sam reframes rage as desperation to be seen [23:18] Larry raises the flip side, men who don't feel physically wanted, and Sam responds that women don't owe their partner sex, but both partners deserve to feel seen [27:19] Sam cites the statistic that women still carry roughly 70 percent of a household's cognitive labor [30:13] Larry shares his own "what can I help you with" habit and how he shifted to noticing and offering specific choices instead [42:19] Sam walks through the "noticing walk," her core method for teaching kids what to notice room by room [46:18] Larry has an on-air realization that he's never taken his own sons through a notice exercise in 20 years of fatherhood [48:30] Sam shares her son's "carry the mental load" line in a public restroom, and a sixth grader's school "mental load" comment [50:57] Sam explains the notice and do structure was built with her own neurodivergent, ADHD family in mind [55:09] Sam and Larry compare how their own households divide bigger recurring responsibilities instead of splitting every task [1:00:06] Sam shares where to find her on Instagram and how to get Notice and Do   Five Key Takeaways The mental load is a whole-family issue, not just a partner issue, so kids need to learn it too, not just adults. A woman's anger about the mental load is usually desperation to be seen, not an attack. Notice and do beats chore charts because it teaches kids to spot what needs doing, not just complete a task on command. Couples spend roughly 1,500 hours planning a wedding and about three planning the actual marriage. Dividing bigger recurring responsibilities, instead of splitting every single task, takes the mental load off just one partner's plate.   Links & Resources Sam Kelly (Instagram): https://www.instagram.com/samkelly_world Notice and Do (Sam's book) on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063460912 Dad Edge Alliance (October Bonuses): https://thedadedge.com/join Dad Edge Day at State Farm Stadium: https://thedadedge.com/nfl The Dad Edge Podcast: https://thedadedge.com/1542   Closing Sam didn't let either of us off easy in this one, and that's exactly why it mattered. The moment that's going to stick with me is admitting on air that I've been a dad for 20 years and never once walked my own boys through a notice exercise, something as simple as pointing at a trash can and saying "here's the line." If this conversation made you want to stop managing your house and start teaching it, go take your own kids on a noticing walk this week. Go out and live legendary.

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About

The Dad Edge Podcast is a movement. It is a strong community of Fathers who all share a set of values. Larry Hagner, founder of The Dad Edge, breaks down common challenges of fatherhood, making them easy to understand and overcome. Tackling the world of Fatherhood can be a daunting task when we try to do it alone. The mission of The Dad Edge Podcast is to help you become the best, strongest, and happiest version of yourself so that you can help guide your kids to the best version of themselves. Simple as that. Everything you need and all of our resources can be found at thedadedge.com/podcast

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