Recruiting Conversations

Richard Milligan, Recruiting Coach
  • 4.7 (48)
  • Marketing
  • Updated Biweekly

Welcome to the Recruiting Conversations Podcast, a conversation designed to help Recruiting Leaders who manage a team as well as recruit. Richard Milligan is a speaker, author, strategist, and recruiting coach who built 21 teams as a Recruiting Leader.

  1. 1d ago

    5 Moves to Lead With Value That Never Feels Like Bait

    You know you're supposed to lead with value, but when you barely know the person, reaching out feels strange, like you're either buttering them up or angling for something, and they can feel it too. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. Value only feels awkward when it's about you. The moment it becomes about them and specific to them, the awkwardness disappears. I'll give you five moves to make that shift. Episode Breakdown [00:01:15] Why Most Value Attempts Feel Forced They feel forced because they're generic, and generic always feels like a setup. Think about the recruiter who calls and says I saw you did a hundred million in volume, I'm impressed. Every single recruiter says that. It's about production, it sounds like everyone else, and the person on the other end hears the pitch coming from a mile away. [00:01:43] How to Actually Open With a Stranger Here's how I open a call with someone I've never met. Hey, we don't know each other, but I recently did some research on you, and I have to tell you, I'm incredibly impressed with a few things I found. That names the awkward part out loud, that we're strangers, and then it earns the moment with something real. And the specific part matters more than anything. I'm not affirming their numbers. I might say I noticed you've kept the same team around you for years, or you've clearly built a client-for-life reputation because I can see it in your reviews. That doesn't feel awkward. It feels like being seen. [00:02:24] Move 1: Affirm Character, Not Production When you affirm someone's numbers, you sound like every other recruiter who's ever called. I'm not a fan of production affirmation. I'm a huge fan of character affirmation, naming something about who they are, the loyalty they show their team, the way they treat their clients. That's how you stand out, because almost nobody does it. [00:02:52] Move 2: Do Your Homework So It's Specific Awkwardness comes from generic, and specific is the cure. Before you ever reach out, do the research, look at their production history, read their public reviews, study how they show up online. You're hunting for the one real thing you can point to that proves you paid attention to them specifically and not to a list. [00:03:18] Move 3: Name the Gap Out Loud, Then Affirm Here's the move that kills the awkwardness. Don't pretend you have a relationship you don't have. Say it plainly, we don't know each other, and then follow it with genuine research-based admiration. When you name the honest truth first, you take the weirdness out of the room, and what's left is a real compliment that lands. [00:03:43] Move 4: Give With No Ask Attached and Make It Useful The fastest way to make value feel forced is to bundle it with a request. So don't. Send the article, make the introduction, share the insight, and then stop. And make it useful, not flattering. Flattery is about winning them over, usefulness is about helping them, and help never feels awkward. The second you attach a hook, it stops being value and turns into bait, and people can always tell the difference. [00:04:15] Move 5: Write to an Audience of One Whether you're reaching one person or a hundred, every message has to read like it was written for the single person receiving it. My rule is that nothing goes out until it reads like it's going to an audience of one. The moment something feels mass-produced, it feels transactional, and the most non-affirming thing you can do to someone is spam them. [00:04:43] Why It Works Awkwardness is just the other person sensing that you want something from them. The second your outreach is specific, useful, and free of any ask, that signal disappears, because there's nothing left to be suspicious of. You're not performing, you're helping. Character affirmation works because underneath all the production, people most want to be respected for who they are, not just for what they produce. Give someone that with no strings attached and you stop sounding like a recruiter, you start sounding like the rare person who saw them. And here's the bigger reason it matters. Value earns permission. The leader who's known for adding to their market instead of always trying to extract from it becomes the default call when a producer finally decides to make a move. You're not just being nice, you're earning the right to the conversation you'll want to have later. [00:05:47] Your Small Win Tonight Pick one person you barely know but want to build a relationship with. Spend ten minutes finding one specific non-production thing worth affirming about them. Finding that one detail is your win, because it's the whole difference between awkward and welcome. [00:06:09] Three Bigger Moves This Week Send one message that affirms someone's character with no ask attached, so you feel how different value lands when it carries no strings. Do the homework on one person before you reach out, their reviews, their history, so your outreach is specific enough that it could only have been written for them. Then take a message you'd normally send to a group and rewrite it for one person, because that's the skill that makes all your outreach feel human, and it's a model your whole team can follow. Key Takeaways Value only feels awkward when it's about you. Make it about them and specific to them and the awkwardness disappears. Generic always feels like a setup. I saw you did a hundred million is what every recruiter says. Affirm character, not production. Underneath all the numbers, people most want to be respected for who they are. Awkwardness comes from generic, and specific is the cure. Do the homework so it could only have been written for them. Name the gap out loud. We don't know each other takes the weirdness out of the room before the compliment lands. Give with no ask attached. The second you attach a hook, value turns into bait, and people can always tell. Value earns permission. The leader known for adding to their market becomes the default call when a producer finally moves. If you want help learning to lead with value that never feels forced, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  2. Sep 1

    Nobody Feels Your Corporate Posts: 5 Moves to Cast Vision That Moves

    You know you're supposed to show up. You know the producers you want are watching. But every time you sit down to post, one of two things happens. Either it comes out sounding like a corporate mission statement nobody feels, or you freeze up, stare at the screen, and decide you've got nothing worth saying. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. The producers you want are already watching you online, and they're deciding whether you're a leader worth following. The goal on social is to show up consistently and cast a future they want to be part of, in a voice that sounds like you and not a press release. I'll give you five moves to do that without sounding stiff and without ever running out of things to say. Episode Breakdown [00:01:20] The Mistake That's Keeping Your Content From Recruiting Most leaders post to the wrong audience. They talk to consumers and to agents, the people they sell to, and then they wonder why no producers ever reach out. If everything on your page is about rates, market updates, and closings, a loan officer scrolling by sees nothing that speaks to them. The people you're trying to recruit aren't your customers. They don't care about your rate specials, they care about where you're going, what it's like to be led by you, and whether they'd grow by being on your team. The day I stopped posting like a producer and started posting like a leader, everything changed. [00:02:24] Move 1: See Yourself as a Media Company First Most leaders think of themselves as a mortgage pro who happens to post online now and then. Flip that completely. You're a media company that happens to do mortgages. The moment I started seeing the world through that lens, content stopped feeling like a chore I had to squeeze in and started becoming the business itself. Attention is what earns you the conversation, and content is how you get attention. It isn't a side project, it's the top of your entire recruiting funnel. [00:03:00] Move 2: Lead With You, Not the Platform The leader is the product, the company is not. Every company out there offers basically the same platform, the same comp structure, the same licensing reach. It's a sea of sameness, and sameness never moves anybody. The one thing that sets you apart is you, your value stack, your coaching track record, your vision for the culture. So your content should lead with what you bring, not what your company offers. Producers can get the company anywhere. They can only get you from you. [00:03:40] Move 3: Lead With Team Vision There are three altitudes of vision. Me vision is what you get. Corporate vision is what the company gets. Team vision is what a producer gets by being part of what you're building. Corporate vision is what makes you sound like a press release nobody feels. Team vision, the specific future they get to be part of, is the one that moves people. So when you cast vision on social, cast it at that altitude, the one that answers the only question they're asking, which is what's in it for me. [00:04:15] Move 4: Use Social ID So You Never Run Dry Leaders constantly tell me they have nothing to post, and then they turn around and lead all day long. The framework I coach is Social ID. ID stands for identify and document. Identify what you're already doing as a leader and document it. The one-on-one you just had, the problem you solved this morning, the recruiting conversation that taught you something. You're not inventing content out of thin air and you're not performing, you're just capturing the leadership you're already living. Do that, and you'll never run out of material again. [00:04:55] Move 5: Move From Transactional to Transformational Most producer content is transactional. Closings, numbers, rate updates. It says look what I did. Transformational content says here's what I believe, here's where we're going, here's what I'm learning as a leader. That's the content that builds connection instead of just racking up views. And then you keep showing up, because visibility precedes relevancy. The producers you want will often watch you quietly for months before they ever say a word. Those likes today aren't the point. You're posting for the recruit who's watching right now and hasn't said a word yet. [00:05:42] Why It Works Producers decide who to follow based on who they want to become, and a corporate mission statement gives them nothing to reach for. A clear vision led by a real leader, told through real moments, gives them a future they can see themselves inside. Social ID works because authenticity beats polish every time, and the truest, most magnetic content you have is the leadership you're already doing every single day. Consistency works because trust isn't built in one viral post, it's built over months. The leader who shows up week after week becomes familiar, and over time that familiarity turns into trust, and trust is what finally makes a producer reach out. Winning the algorithm was never the point. The point is being the leader who's already in their feed, showing up with value long before they ever need to make a move. [00:06:53] Your Small Win Tonight Think back over the last two days of leading and write down one moment worth documenting, a conversation, a decision, a problem you solved, something you learned. That one moment is a post, and finding it is your win, because it proves you'll never run out of things to say. [00:07:14] Three Bigger Moves This Week Rewrite your next post so it speaks to a producer you want to recruit instead of a customer you want to close, so your content finally starts attracting the right people. Make one post that leads with your vision and your value as a leader, not your company's platform, so you stand out in that sea of sameness. Then commit to a simple posting rhythm you can hold, because consistency is what turns your page into a recruiting engine, and it teaches your whole team that showing up is a discipline, not a mood. Key Takeaways The producers you want are already watching you online, deciding whether you're a leader worth following. Most leaders post to the people they close, not the people they want to lead. Stop posting like a producer and start posting like a leader. You're not a mortgage pro who posts now and then. You're a media company that happens to do mortgages. The leader is the product, the company is not. Producers can get the company anywhere, they can only get you from you. Cast team vision, the future a producer gets by joining you. Corporate vision is the press release nobody feels. Social ID means identify and document. Capture the leadership you're already living and you'll never run out of material. Visibility precedes relevancy. You're posting for the recruit watching quietly right now who hasn't said a word yet. If you want help turning your social presence into a vision that recruits, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's Friday, September 11th at 12:00 PM Eastern. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  3. Aug 24

    5 Moves to Stop Carrying People Who Aren't Growing

    There's someone on your team who isn't growing, and you keep pouring yourself into them anyway, emotionally, mentally, month after month, hoping this is finally the month it clicks. You lie awake thinking about how to reach them. You replay the conversations. You carry them home with you, and slowly, quietly, it's draining the very energy your best people need from you. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. Carrying someone emotionally who won't grow isn't kindness, it's a slow leak in your leadership, and learning where to set that weight down is what frees you to pour into the people who are moving. I'll walk you through five moves to do that without guilt and without becoming cold. Episode Breakdown [00:01:30] I Fired My Number One Producer, Twice Let me tell you something that still isn't easy to say out loud. I've fired my number one producer, not once, twice. Both times the numbers were incredible. By volume and by units, that person was winning, and on paper letting them go looked insane. But here's what I finally had to admit to myself. I was winning in production and losing in culture. That one person was costing me in environment, in alignment, in the way everybody else on the team felt showing up every day. And for a long time I carried it, because the production was so good the numbers kept me hooked. [00:02:14] The Trap Isn't Always the Low Performer Sometimes it's the person with the best numbers or the most potential, and their production or their promise is the very thing that keeps you carrying something you should have set down a long time ago. Keeping the wrong person, no matter how much they produce, is never a winning strategy. Volume alone is never a good enough reason to keep someone who's quietly undermining everyone around them. [00:02:45] Move 1: Get Honest About the Difference Between Potential and Behavior Potential is what someone could do. Behavior is what they're doing right now. The most dangerous person on your team is high in potential and low in behavior, because the potential keeps your hope alive while the behavior slowly drains your tank. Same with production, like my number one. The good number kept me hooked while the behavior cost me everything around it. Lead to what's in front of you, not to the highlight reel of what could be. [00:03:19] Move 2: Define Your Avatar and Non-Negotiables Before You're Tangled Here's what I learned the hard way. If you don't decide in advance what you actually require, in values, in character, in how someone treats the team, you'll rationalize almost anything once the relationship is deep and the production is good. So write down the non-negotiable values for the person you want on your team. Decide the standard while your head is clear, so you aren't trying to make a values call through a fog of emotion and good numbers. [00:04:00] Move 3: Name What You'll Tolerate Out Loud You get what you tolerate. If you never name the standard, you've silently agreed to carry whatever shows up. So say it kindly and clearly. Here's what growth looks like on this team, here's what I need to see from you, and here's what happens if I don't. That isn't harsh, that's clarity, and clarity is one of the most caring things a leader ever gives, even when it's hard to say. [00:04:30] Move 4: Put a Budget on Your Investment Decide ahead of time how much time and emotional energy you'll pour into someone before their behavior has to change. Without a budget, you'll carry a person for years on nothing but hope. With one, you protect yourself, and you make the hard call before you're too tangled up to make it well. A budget isn't cold. It's the thing that keeps your leadership solvent. [00:04:55] Move 5: Move the Weight to the Willing Take the emotional energy you were spending trying to light a fire under someone who won't move and pour it into the people already showing you desire through their behavior. That energy compounds where there's desire and evaporates where there isn't. Here's the quiet tragedy most leaders never see. Your best people are often getting your leftovers, because someone who won't grow absorbed your best. Give your best back to the ones who are running. [00:05:33] Why It Works Your emotional energy is finite, even more finite than your time, and every ounce of it you spend carrying someone who won't grow is an ounce you stole from someone who would. That's the part that stings. It doesn't only cost you, it quietly robs the people on your team who are doing the work. There's a second thing too. The leader is the ceiling. When you're consumed carrying one person, you stop growing, and when you stop growing, the whole team's ceiling comes down with you. So setting a weight down was never about abandoning someone, sometimes it's the only way to keep leading everyone else well. And one more truth I had to learn twice over the hard way. Carrying the unwilling rarely even helps them. Growth was always going to be their decision, not your effort. You cannot want it more than they do and call that leadership. [00:06:47] Your Small Win Tonight Name the one person you've been carrying emotionally with little in return. Be plain about it, and be honest about how much of your energy they've been taking. You can't set down a weight you won't admit you're holding, so naming it is the win. [00:07:06] Three Bigger Moves This Week Write down your non-negotiable values for the kind of person you want on your team, so the next time production tempts you to ignore a red flag, you've already decided what you stand for and your whole culture is protected by that line. Have one clear, kind conversation naming what growth looks like and what you need to see, so the standard stops being a secret you carry alone and becomes something the person can actually rise to. Then take the energy you free up and pour it into someone who's already moving, because coaching compounds where desire already lives, and your best people finally get the leader they deserve. Key Takeaways Carrying someone emotionally who won't grow isn't kindness. It's a slow leak in your leadership. The trap isn't always the low performer. Sometimes it's the best numbers or the most potential keeping you hooked on someone you should have released. Potential is what someone could do, behavior is what they're doing now. Lead to what's in front of you, not the highlight reel. Decide your non-negotiables while your head is clear, because good production will talk you out of every red flag once you're tangled. You get what you tolerate. Naming the standard out loud is one of the most caring things a leader can do. Put a budget on your time and emotional energy. Without one you'll carry a person for years on nothing but hope. Your emotional energy is finite. Every ounce spent on someone who won't grow is stolen from someone who would. If you're wrestling with where to keep investing and where to set the weight down, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather work on this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's August 28 at 12 PM ET. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  4. Aug 18

    The Fires Win by Wednesday: 5 Moves to Protect Your Recruiting Time

    You start strong on Monday with the best intentions, and by Wednesday the fires have won, and by Friday the recruiting you swore you'd protect never happened. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. You don't rise to your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. Motivation fades, but a rhythm holds, and building the right weekly rhythm is what turns recruiting from the thing you keep meaning to do into the thing that just gets done. I'll give you five moves to build a rhythm that survives a hard week. Episode Breakdown [00:01:20] Most Rhythms Fail by Design, Not Discipline It's rarely a discipline problem, it's a design problem. Leaders try to hold their whole week together with willpower and a to-do list, and willpower is the first thing that breaks when the week gets hard. I've watched it in myself and in hundreds of leaders I've coached. The ones who stay consistent aren't more disciplined than everyone else. They just built a rhythm so clear and so protected that it survives a bad week. The goal was never the thing that moved them. The system they built underneath the goal was. [00:02:00] Move 1: Turn Your Goal Into a Project A goal like recruit more people is a wish, and wishes never make it onto a calendar. Turn it into a daily project with specific repeatable actions. So instead of I need to recruit, it becomes I make 20 outreach calls at 9 every morning. We don't rise to a goal, we fall to the level of the system we build underneath it. [00:02:26] Move 2: Protect the Block Before Anything Else Fills It Put your recruiting time on the calendar first, ahead of the meetings and the fires. If recruiting only gets whatever's left over at the end of the day, it will always get nothing, because there's never anything left. Treat that block like an appointment you'd never cancel on your best client. [00:02:46] Move 3: Track Inputs, Not Just Outcomes You can't control who signs this week, but you can control the calls you make and the value you deliver. Measure the inputs, the activity you actually own, so a slow week doesn't feel like failure and you keep showing up when the wins are quiet. [00:03:10] Move 4: Report It to Someone This is Pearson's law. What gets measured improves, and what gets measured and reported improves exponentially. The moment you have to tell one other person what you did this week, your consistency jumps, because now there's a little accountability riding on it. [00:03:29] Move 5: Reset Every Friday End each week with three quick questions. What worked so I can double down on it, what didn't, and what's the one thing I'll improve next week. That 15-minute reset is what keeps the rhythm honest and keeps it evolving instead of quietly dying on you. [00:03:50] Why It Works A rhythm beats motivation because motivation is a feeling and a rhythm is a structure, and structure keeps working on the days the feeling is gone. Turning the goal into a project works because your brain can't act on something vague, but it can absolutely make a 9:00 AM call. And the Friday reset works because a rhythm nobody examines slowly drifts until it disappears, while a rhythm you review every week keeps getting stronger. Consistency was never about trying harder. It's about building something that carries you on the days trying hard isn't enough. [00:04:33] Your Small Win Tonight Open your calendar and put one recruiting block on it for tomorrow, at a specific time you can honor, then treat it like a real appointment and protect it. That single block is your win, because a rhythm starts with one protected hour, not a perfect week. [00:04:50] Three Bigger Moves This Week Turn your top recruiting goal into a daily project with a specific action and time, so it stops living in your head and starts living on your calendar, which is a model your whole team can copy. Pick one person to report your weekly activity to, because the accountability that sharpens you sharpens everyone you lead. Then put a recurring Friday reset on the calendar, the three questions, so your rhythm keeps improving instead of fading and your team sees a leader who sustains what they start. Key Takeaways You don't rise to your goals, you fall to the level of your systems. Most rhythms fail by design, not discipline. Willpower is the first thing that breaks when the week gets hard. A goal like recruit more people is a wish. Turn it into a daily project, 20 calls at 9 every morning. Put your recruiting block on the calendar first. If it only gets what's left over, it gets nothing. Track inputs, not just outcomes. You can't control who signs, but you own the calls and the value you deliver. What gets measured improves, and what gets measured and reported improves exponentially. Report your week to one person. A rhythm nobody examines drifts until it disappears. A 15-minute Friday reset keeps it evolving instead of dying. If you want help designing a weekly rhythm that actually holds, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's 8/28 at 12 PM ET. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  5. Aug 11

    Stop Posting Rates and Products: 5 Moves to Become the Authority In Your Market

    The producers you want are watching you before they ever reply, and a rate sheet doesn't make anybody want to follow you. You know you need to be visible, but every time you show up, the only thing you know how to talk about is rates or products, and it isn't landing. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. You build authority by becoming the most valuable, most visible voice in your market, and you can do that without ever leading with a rate or a product. I'll give you a five-move framework to get there. Episode Breakdown [00:01:07] The Leader Who Got Louder When the Market Went Quiet I coached a leader whose market got wrecked by a hurricane. Homes gone, business frozen, and everybody in the industry went quiet and hunkered down. That's what most people do when things get hard, they disappear. I coached him to do the opposite, to become the single most visible person in that marketplace. He started a weekly webinar, not to pitch his company but to help, bringing in the people his market needed to hear from and answering the questions everybody was too scared to ask. He wasn't talking about his rates, he was talking about what his market needed. Within a few months he wasn't just another loan officer in a broken market, he was the authority everybody turned to. Authority doesn't come from selling. It comes from being the most valuable voice in the room. [00:02:03] Move 1: See Yourself as a Media Company First Most leaders think of themselves as a mortgage pro who happens to post online now and then. Flip that. You're a media company that happens to do mortgages, because attention is what earns the conversation, and content is how you earn attention. [00:02:32] Move 2: Talk to the People You Want to Recruit, Not the People You Want to Close This is the most common mistake I see. A leader's content speaks to consumers or to agents, the people he sells to, when the people he's trying to recruit are loan officers. If you want to attract producers, make content that speaks to producers, about leadership, about growth, about the things they lie awake thinking about. [00:03:00] Move 3: Give Value in Public The fastest way to build authority is to solve real problems out loud where everybody can see it. Answer the questions your market is afraid to ask, teach what you know. When you're the one consistently giving value away, you become the one people trust long before you ever make an ask. [00:03:23] Move 4: Feature Other People Authority isn't only about you talking. Some of the most powerful positioning comes from putting other respected voices on your platform, the way that leader did with his webinar. When you're the one convening the room, you're the authority in it, even when you aren't the one speaking. [00:03:43] Move 5: Curate, Don't Just Create You don't have to produce something brand new every single day. Knowing your market cold and pointing people to the three things that matter most this week is its own form of authority. Curation beats constant creation, because being the trusted filter is often worth more than being one more voice adding to the noise. [00:04:05] Why It Works Producers vet you before they ever reply, and a rate sheet tells them nothing about whether you're worth following. Value tells them everything. When you consistently give without asking, you flip the whole dynamic, and instead of chasing producers you become the person they seek out. That's the difference between visibility that's just noise and authority that recruits. One is about being seen, the other is about being trusted, and trust is what makes someone pick up the phone when you finally reach out. [00:04:45] Your Small Win Tonight Write down the three questions the producers in your market are quietly worried about right now. Not your customers, your future recruits. Just naming those three is your win, because that list is your content for the next month. [00:05:00] Three Bigger Moves This Week Publish one piece of content that answers one of those questions and mentions your rates and products nowhere, so your market starts seeing you as a leader instead of a lender. Invite one respected voice in your market onto something you host, a call, a webinar, a post, so you become the one convening the room. Then pick one thing you'll curate for your market every week, so you build the habit of being the trusted filter, and when you show up as the authority your whole team gets easier to recruit into because people already know who you are. Key Takeaways You build authority by becoming the most valuable, most visible voice in your market, and you can do it without ever leading with a rate or a product. When the market goes quiet, get louder. Visibility in a hard season is how you become the authority everybody turns to. You're not a mortgage pro who posts now and then. You're a media company that happens to do mortgages. Most leaders aim their content at the people they close, not the people they recruit. If you want producers, speak to producers. Give value in public and you become trusted long before you ever make an ask. When you convene the room, you're the authority in it, even when you're not the one speaking. Producers vet you before they reply. A rate sheet tells them nothing, value tells them everything. If you want help building authority in your market without leading with a rate, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's Friday, August 15th at 12:00 PM Eastern. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  6. Aug 4

    Your Comp Gets Matched by Friday: 4 Moves They Can't Copy

    You sit down with a recruit and you start talking, and halfway through you realize you sound exactly like the company website. The platform, the products, the tech stack, the comp plan, all the stuff every other leader in your market is saying too. And the recruit's eyes glaze over, because they've heard it nine times this year from nine different people who all sound the same. Here's what I want you to walk away with today, and it should change how you walk into every recruiting conversation. Between 80 and 90% of the people who join an organization join because of the leader, not the company. You are the differentiator. I'll give you four moves that make your leadership vision impossible to confuse with corporate messaging. Episode Breakdown [00:01:40] Duct Tape Tennis Shoes I grew up low income, duct tape tennis shoes. I was the poor kid at school, and I knew it. At 19 I left home and planted a flag in the ground and told myself I'd never live like that again. I went to college, hated it, and left after one semester, but I didn't give up on the dream. I started going to every conference and live event I could get to, Brian Tracy, Zig Ziglar, Jim Rohn, Les Brown, and I taught myself. By my mid-20s I was one of the top salespeople in a Fortune 500 company. [00:02:25] Why That Story Beats a Comp Plan When I share that in a recruiting conversation, the recruit doesn't hear a comp plan. They hear personal growth. They hear a value I didn't pick off a list because it sounded good, I lived it in shoes held together with tape. A competitor can match my comp by Friday. They can buy the same software. But not one of them can copy that story or the value it proves, because it happened to me and not to them. Lead with the company and you're handing the recruit something anyone can duplicate. Lead with you and you're handing them the one thing in this entire industry that's impossible to replicate. [00:03:05] The Premise: You Are the Product, Not the Company Four moves sit on one idea. You are the product, not the company. That's the frame underneath everything that follows. [00:03:21] Move 1: Stop Saying You're Better and Start Being Different Almost every leader you compete with is going to say some version of we're better. The second you say better, you've invited a comparison contest on comp and rate sheets, a contest you might lose. Different takes you out of the contest completely, because your exact combination of experience, beliefs, and culture can't be ranked against anybody. There's nothing to compare it to. [00:03:54] Move 2: Build Your Message From Your Own Stories Your values should come from your life, not from a values page someone in marketing wrote. A value with a story behind it is impossible to fake and impossible to copy. My family-first value isn't a word on a wall, it's the thing that got me out of bed in the worst year of my life. When a value has a story like that under it, the recruit believes it, because you're not claiming it, you're proving it. [00:04:26] Move 3: Make Every Value Concrete Enough to Repeat Here's the test. If it takes you five minutes to explain what one of your values means, it's too abstract, and the recruit won't remember it the moment they leave the room. Get each value down to one concrete sentence a recruit could write on a napkin after hearing it once. Concrete is memorable, and memorable is what walks out the door and keeps working on them. [00:04:54] Move 4: Name Your Culture So It Self-Selects Don't describe your team as a list of features, give it an identity. If you run a fully virtual selling culture that hands out an award for the most creative spot somebody shows up from for the sales meeting, say that. The right person hears it and thinks that's me, and the wrong person screens themselves out before you waste a conversation. A named culture is a filter and a magnet at the same time. [00:05:25] Why It Works If 80 to 90% of hires come because of the leader, then every minute you spend selling the corporate platform is a minute spent on the weakest lever you have, while you're sitting on the strongest one, your own story and vision, and most leaders barely touch it. And you can't be commoditized. Comp gets matched, platforms get matched, perks get matched, but your value system, your why, and your vision can't be duplicated by anybody, which means the moment you compete on those you stop being a slightly better option and become a category of one. And a lived story is believable in a way a claim never is. Anybody can say they value growth or family or hard work. Prove it with a real moment from your real life and the recruit stops evaluating a pitch and starts connecting with a person, and people join people. [00:06:25] Your Small Win Today Take one line of corporate messaging you've been leaning on in recruiting conversations and rewrite it as something only you could say. If a competitor could say the exact same sentence, it isn't differentiating you. [00:06:49] Three Bigger Moves This Week Write one of your core values as a story, beginning, struggle, and overcome, so your whole team learns to recruit on identity instead of the rate sheet. Rewrite each of your values into one concrete sentence a recruit could repeat after hearing it once, so your message lands the same whether it comes from you or anyone on your team. Then name your culture and three specific rituals inside it, so the right recruits self-select toward you and you stop burning time on the wrong ones. Key Takeaways Between 80 and 90% of people join because of the leader, not the company. You are the differentiator. Corporate messaging is the weakest tool you have. Your story, your vision, and your values are the strongest. A competitor can match your comp by Friday and buy the same software. They can't copy a story that happened to you and not to them. Stop saying you're better. Better invites a comparison contest on comp. Different takes you out of the contest completely. A value with a story under it is impossible to fake. You're not claiming it, you're proving it. If it takes five minutes to explain a value, it's too abstract. Get it down to one sentence a recruit could write on a napkin. Name your culture and it becomes a filter and a magnet at once. The right person self-selects in, the wrong one screens out. If you want help pulling your story and vision out and making it impossible to copy, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. You can add all of our 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  7. Jul 28

    Three Fires Before Coffee: 4 Moves to Hold the Anchor When the Short Term Is on Fire

    The market turns, a big producer walks out the door, rates move, a deal blows up, three fires start before you've finished your coffee. And that big vision you were so clear on a few months ago suddenly feels like a luxury you can't afford right now. So you set it down to go put out the fire, then you set it down again next week and the week after, and one day you look up and the vision is gone, buried under a year of urgent. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. Short-term chaos isn't what kills your vision. Losing your anchor is. I'll give you four moves I call Holding the Anchor so you keep it steady no matter how loud the week gets. Episode Breakdown [00:01:34] The Hardest Season of My Life In 2007 I had built a mortgage business, and I'd built it over-leveraged, and when the market turned it collapsed. I lost it. I was staring at bankruptcy, my marriage was hanging on by a thread, and there were mornings I'd put one foot on the floor and then the other, not because I wanted to, but because of my family. That was the bottom. [00:01:58] The Chaos Revealed My Why, It Didn't Destroy It That season, the worst one of my life, is where my vision got clearer, not blurrier, because when everything got stripped away I found out what was underneath it all. It took me all the way back to being a kid in duct tape tennis shoes, the poor kid at school telling myself I'd never live like that again, and forward to a wife and kids who needed me to get back up. The chaos didn't destroy my why, it revealed it. The storm isn't the enemy of your vision. The storm is what shows you whether your vision was anchored to something real in the first place. [00:03:00] Move 1: Zoom Back Out to a 10-Year Window Chaos shrinks your timeline down to today, and when all you can see is today, every fire feels like the whole story. So widen it back out. We overestimate what we can do in a year, and we badly underestimate what we can do in three, five, ten years. When you look ten years out, almost anything feels possible again, and this week's fire goes back to being one week out of 500. [00:03:34] Move 2: Anchor the Vision to Your Why, Not Your Circumstances Circumstances change every week. Your why does not. When I built 4C, I set a ten-year vision in 2017 to help 10,000 recruiting leaders by 2027, then backed it all the way down to a year-one goal of 100 leaders. We hit 138 that first year. The market did plenty of crazy things in the years after, but the vision held because it was anchored to a purpose, not to a quarter. [00:04:10] Move 3: Design From the End, Not From the Chaos Most leaders, when things get hard, start planning from where they're stuck, and the stuck place sets the ceiling. Flip it. Go all the way to the finish line first, describe exactly what exists there, and then work backwards to now. When you design from the end, today's mess stops shrinking your dream, because the destination was set before the chaos got a vote. [00:04:40] Move 4: Write It Down and Protect It With a Rhythm A vision in your head is clouds. It evaporates the second the week gets loud. A vision on paper is dirt, something you can stand on. So get it out of your head and onto one page, then protect it with a simple weekly rhythm. Every Friday, name what's working and double down on it, name what's not, and pick the one thing to fix next week. [00:05:05] Why It Works There's a difference between a glass ball and a rubber ball. Most of the fires this week are rubber. You can drop them, they bounce, you pick them back up tomorrow and nothing is broken. Your long-term vision is glass. Drop it enough times and it shatters, and you don't get it back. When you know which is which, you stop sacrificing the glass to catch the rubber. And the ten-year window changes your emotional state, not just your plan. Panic lives in the next forty-eight hours, possibility lives ten years out, so when you make yourself look long, you trade panic for perspective and make better decisions because you're leading from the destination instead of reacting to the fire. And the last reason is the one I lived. A vision anchored to your why survives things that would flatten a vision anchored to good conditions. Mine didn't make it through 2007 because the market cooperated. It made it through because it was tied to something the market couldn't touch. [00:06:17] Your Small Win Today Write your ten-year vision in one sentence and put it somewhere you'll see it on your worst day, on your phone, on your wall, on the first page of your notebook. One sentence you can come back to when the week catches fire. [00:06:41] Three Bigger Moves This Week Write out the hardest season you've already come through and what it taught you about your real why, so when the next storm hits your team borrows your steadiness instead of catching your panic. Run the end-to-beginning exercise on one big goal, go to the finish line and work backwards, so this quarter's fires stop setting the ceiling on your dream. Then start a Friday rhythm where you name what's working, what's not, and the one thing to improve, so your team watches you hold direction steady while everything moves. Key Takeaways Short-term chaos isn't what kills your vision. Losing your anchor is. The storm isn't the enemy of your vision. It's what shows you whether the vision was anchored to something real in the first place. Chaos shrinks your timeline to today. Zoom out to ten years and this week's fire becomes one week out of 500. Circumstances change every week, your why does not. Anchor to a purpose, not to a quarter. When you design from the end, today's mess stops setting the ceiling, because the destination was set before the chaos got a vote. A vision in your head is clouds. A vision on paper is dirt you can stand on. Most fires are rubber balls, they bounce. Your vision is glass. Stop sacrificing the glass to catch the rubber. If you want help getting your vision out of the clouds and onto paper, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's Thursday, July 31st at 12:00 PM Eastern. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

  8. Jul 21

    The Harder You Push, the More They Dig In: 4 Moves That Work

    You found the producer you want. Big numbers, great reputation, exactly the kind of person who'd be a great addition to your team. So you reach out and you get the wall. They're not looking, they're comfortable, they've heard every pitch a hundred times, and yours sounds like all the rest. The harder you push, the more they dig in. Here's what I want you to walk away with today. That resistance isn't about you, and pushing harder is the worst thing you can do. A satisfied top producer will never move away from comfort, but they'll move toward a future that's bigger than the one they're living in. I'll give you four moves that turn your vision into the thing that finally moves them. Episode Breakdown [00:01:30] The Spring Break Story A few years ago I asked my daughter Haven what she wanted to do over spring break, and she said she wanted to stay home, have a couple friends over, and ride her horses. That was her dream week, because at that time it was all she knew. Staying home and riding her horse was the biggest, best thing she could picture, so that's what she asked for. But the moment Haven found out that going to Disney World was available, staying home and riding the horse wasn't all that interesting anymore. [00:02:06] That's Your Top Producer They're not resisting because they weighed your opportunity and decided against it. They're resisting because, like Haven, they're asking for the only thing they can currently see. Their current company, their current comp, their current routine. That's staying home and riding the horse, and it feels good because they don't know there's anything better. [00:02:27] Most Leaders Argue About the Horse They walk into that conversation and talk comp, talk platform, talk about being a little bit better than what the producer already has, and all that does is keep the producer staring at the same backyard. The leaders who win stop arguing about the present and paint a destination the producer has never seen. They show them Disney. Once a top producer can see a future bigger than the one they're living in, the resistance starts to melt, because now they're not being asked to leave something good. They're being invited toward something better. [00:03:20] Move 1: Stop Selling Pain and Start Creating Desire People move from desire, not pain. When you lead with what's wrong at their current shop, you put them on defense, because you're insulting a choice they made. Lead with a destination instead. Show them what their business and their life could look like three years from now on your team, in enough detail that they can see themselves standing in it. [00:03:45] Move 2: Trade Your Me Vision for a Team Vision This is the one most leaders miss. Vision lives at three levels, a me vision, a team vision, and a corporate vision. If you tell a producer your goal is to build an $800 million region, that's a me vision, and the honest response in their head is good for you. A team vision is the future they get to be part of, the thing they can only get by being on your team. Cast a vision the producer can only reach by joining you, and good for you becomes good for me. [00:04:26] Move 3: Make It Specific and Certain People don't move toward generalizations, they move toward specifics. A vague vision feels like a wish, and a specific plan feels like a path. Name the market, name the real producers you're going after, lay out the quarter-by-quarter ramp, and speak it in certain future language like it's already happening. There's enormous energy in a vision precisely because the future doesn't exist yet, so you get to fill it with confidence and certainty, and the producer feels that energy transfer to them. [00:05:00] Move 4: Reframe Onto the Ground You Can Win Sometimes a top producer anchors on the one thing you can't match, a specific brand, a specific perk, a specific number. You'll never win that conversation on their terms, so move it. I coached a leader whose recruit kept insisting he had to have a certain national platform, and instead of fighting it we reframed onto a hard advantage the leader already held, which was 5 times the number of $95 million producers on his platform than the one the recruit was chasing. The recruit went quiet and said he hadn't thought about it that way. Find the conversation you can win and walk them into it. [00:05:50] Why It Works A satisfied person won't run from comfort, but they will reach for a bigger future. Comfort is a wall when you push against it and a door when you give someone a reason to walk through it, and vision is that reason. It doesn't ask the producer to admit anything is wrong, it just shows them more. Team vision answers the only question a recruit is asking, which is what's in this for me. A me vision and a corporate vision both leave that question hanging, while a team vision they can only get from you answers it directly and makes you the one and only door to that future. And recruiting is a transference of energy, so when you speak a specific, certain vision with real conviction, the producer catches it. Without a vision, you're walking in with the most energizing thing you could share missing from your hands. [00:06:55] Your Small Win Today Take the vision you've been pitching and ask one honest question of it. Is this a me vision or a team vision? If a producer would hear it and think good for you, rewrite it into a future they get to be part of. [00:07:14] Three Bigger Moves This Week Build one specific destination for one target producer, the named market, the real plan, the certain future language, so your whole team sees what vision-based recruiting looks like in practice instead of a comp pitch. On your next three recruiting calls, lead with desire and a bigger future instead of what's wrong where they are, so your recruiters stop putting producers on defense. Then pick one top producer who told you no and go back, not with more pressure, but with a destination, so you reopen a door you thought was closed. Key Takeaways Resistance from a top producer isn't about you, and pushing harder only makes them dig in. A satisfied producer will never move away from comfort, but they'll move toward a future bigger than the one they're living in. Most leaders argue about the horse. They talk comp and platform, and the producer keeps staring at the same backyard. People move from desire, not pain. Lead with what's wrong at their shop and you insult a choice they made. A me vision earns good for you. A team vision they can only reach by joining you earns good for me. A vague vision feels like a wish. A specific plan feels like a path, so name the market, the producers, and the quarter-by-quarter ramp. When a producer anchors on the one thing you can't match, don't fight it. Move the conversation to ground you can win. If you want help casting a vision that moves the people who keep telling you no, reach out. Visit bookrichardnow.com and grab time on my calendar, and I'd be glad to think it through with you. And if you'd rather build this kind of thing in real time, I host a biweekly working lunch where we do exactly that together. The next one's 7/31 at 12 PM CT. You can add it, plus all of our other 4C live events, straight to your calendar here: http://cal.ae/suuaiiw

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About

Welcome to the Recruiting Conversations Podcast, a conversation designed to help Recruiting Leaders who manage a team as well as recruit. Richard Milligan is a speaker, author, strategist, and recruiting coach who built 21 teams as a Recruiting Leader.

Information

  • Creator
    Richard Milligan, Recruiting Coach
  • Years Active
    2018 - 2026
  • Episodes
    100
  • Rating
    Clean
  • Copyright
    © 4C Recruiting 2019
  • Show Website
    Recruiting Conversations

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